Old MCU Fantastic Four Discussion Thread

[Dark Raven]

I think they can cover the origin in a flashback too, or a presentation by Reed or someone else. If they have to develop from who they are at their origin, then they have to discover their powers all over again and go through all the various emotional beats that we've had so many times. Ben Grimm also has to go through all his bitter phase which would take a while until he becomes the loveable everyman and wisecracking hero. That would take way too long.

The general audience need to see them at their best and most loveable and not have to wait several movies until that happens. For Fant4stic, that's what all FFINO defenders kept arguing: wait until the sequel, wait until the reboot etc. Marvel don't have that luxury here with the FF. They need to hit the ground running.

People need to see straight away why the Thing is such a beloved character and why the FF aren't boring.

 

[Detective Conan]

If he wasn’t already Daredevil, does anyone here think Charlie Cox would make a good Reed?

 

[Zarex]

I think a lot of long time fans, for obvious reasons, want to see Ben's heritage given some shine.

I do too...


But I remember that in the comics more often than not, Ben is Jewish in a definite cultural sense but I never got that he was, before or after changing, that he was particularly observant, which is the case for many real life people with Jewish roots (People of all kinds of faith, really. I myself did ten years of Catholic school... So of course... Now I'm an atheist.) who are raised with all the signifiers of the American Jewish experience but who aren't regulars at Temple.

I remember the Infinity Crusade crossover and Starlin had Ben being one of the heroes that wasn't taken in by The Goddess who was using a combo of mind influence and people's faith to get them on her side. Ben is asked why he wasn' taken in by her influence or power and he responds with a story about his Aunt... Not that one, one of Petunia's sister. At a young age Ben sees her die from a disease despite all his prayers to God. After, that's when he became a non-believer.

I'm not saying THAT should be what Ben is in the MCU.

In fact, even as an atheist I think a GREAT subplot for Ben in the first film would be him coping with his situation by diving back into his Jewish heritage.

Outside of the Korean Church of Asgard, Cap mentioning God and the Wakandans referring to Bast, the MCU has (wisely) steered clear of religion. But Kamala Khan's struggles with her
faithful Muslim family is a source of conflict, and I don't see how Feige and company can hand wave that away. So it makes sense to at least refer to Ben's Judaism. And I really would like to see him in a yarmulke.

There was on F4 Comic with Ben where he nearly dies fighting the Hulk. I was thinking the MCU could do that plotline but replace the Hulk with Abomination of Ross/Red-Hulk.

In the story, Ben has a few hours until he can finally turn human for a day and *ahem* be with his girl. Hulk attacks, but he's mind controlled.

Long story short, Ben ends up with like 5 minutes or so until he turns back human and the Hulk is beating the rock off his skin literally. So with one last punch, Ben winds up, knocking the Hulk out cold and himself in the process as well as missing the once a year chance he gets to be human.

It's a small story but I'll always remember. Everyone always like Reed or Johhny. But Ben is where the real character development is at.

Say what you want about F4 2005, but that scene where Ben looks at his wife. And she just drops the ring and leaves. Shatters me everytime. He's not like the Hulk, he can't go normal at first. Even in the God forsaken garbage for that is Fant4stic. The moment where we see Ben literally stuck as a pile of struggling rock.

Moments like these let me know who the film makers have the most bond with. Despite being the least human, Ben is the easiest to relate too.

I had been waiting DECADES for Ben to finally knock out that green M Effer, so seeing the Thing finally KO the Hulk - and the Immortal version at that - was very satisfying.

 

[ernesth100]

Maybe he'll say "Mr Richards, Mr Richards, what shall I do?"

Baxter Tech Suit incoming.

 

[Detective Conan]

I think they can cover the origin in a flashback too, or a presentation by Reed or someone else. If they have to develop from who they are at their origin, then they have to discover their powers all over again and go through all the various emotional beats that we've had so many times. Ben Grimm also has to go through all his bitter phase which would take a while until he becomes the loveable everyman and wisecracking hero. That would take way too long.

The general audience need to see them at their best and most loveable and not have to wait several movies until that happens. For Fant4stic, that's what all FFINO defenders kept arguing: wait until the sequel, wait until the reboot etc. Marvel don't have that luxury here with the FF. They need to hit the ground running.

People need to see straight away why the Thing is such a beloved character and why the FF aren't boring.

It depends on how it’s handled. While the first film shouldn’t show them getting their powers again. We should still experience these characters at a formative point in their lives where they haven’t gotten things together and are still figuring out how to be superheroes. The new movie should already have them in costume at the start after they’ve already decided to use their powers to help mankind but we should explore the struggles both internally and externally that comes with that. We shouldn’t start with them discovering their powers, but we should start with them getting used to their powers and their status as superhero celebrities.

Given the enormous popularity of the MCU, this movie will be a lot of people’s introduction to the FF and I think the best way to introduce audience to FF that is compelling and dramatic is to start the team off not fully formed in order to get audiences to better relate to the characters. After all, the FF were originally conceived as more relatable characters in comparison to the DC characters at the time. So going in this direction would simply be harkening back to those roots.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I think there’s one simple reason Fox wasted two films with lengthy origin stories: Money

It’s a lot cheaper to have four regular actors reading lines for the first half of the film than having four super-powered characters from the beginning.

As has been discussed here (not just recently but over the past 20 years), the FF’s origin is a minor detail that shouldn’t use much screen time.

If Marvel spends more than ten minutes on the mission (either in other films or in the FF film), I’d be surprised.

They may spend some time on them going from a collection of people to a team, but the space mission (or whatever they use) is likely to get very little screen time.

 

[Detective Conan]

The accident can easily be done in another movie. Heck, we might even get the FF origin in Ant-Man 3 for all we know.

 

[DyeLorean]

Yeah, They are not doing straight up origin stories anymore. What was the last one? Doctor Strange? All the other ones were covered in a previous film (Spider-Man, Black Panther) or through flashbacks (Captain Marvel).

 

[Chris B]

I'd go with the opening montage approach as far as the origin goes. The FF have such a straight forward origin and its not really that interesting to stand on its own the way a character like Spider-Man does to warrant that much attention.

 

[DyeLorean]

I'd go with the opening montage approach as far as the origin goes. The FF have such a straight forward origin and its not really that interesting to stand on its own the way a character like Spider-Man does to warrant that much attention.

Like The Incredible Hulk?

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Yeah, They are not doing straight up origin stories anymore. What was the last one? Doctor Strange? All the other ones were covered in a previous film (Spider-Man, Black Panther) or through flashbacks (Captain Marvel).

Yeah, and think about Dr. Strange. We need some sort of origin for him so we can understand the nature of his powers.

That’s not at all necessary fir the FF.

 

[Dark Raven]

Like The Incredible Hulk?

I wished the Incredible Hulk opening had him caught in the gamma bomb blast while pushing Rick Jones into the ditch. I didn't want to see the glorified dentist's chair opening again from the TV series.

I know at the time of the TV show they didn't want to do the gamma bomb because they reasoned that bombs aren't tested out in the desert anymore like that and because they wanted a more down-to-earth origin. But even in Captain Marvel she was caught in an explosion in the desert, which was pretty much like a gamma bomb-type origin.

So they could've done something like that for the Incredible Hulk. It would've been new to audiences and far more interesting and dramatic, and literally an explosive start to the movie.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I wished the Incredible Hulk opening had him caught in the gamma bomb blast while pushing Rick Jones into the ditch. I didn't want to see the glorified dentist's chair opening again from the TV series.

I know at the time of the TV show they didn't want to do the gamma bomb because they reasoned that bombs aren't tested out in the desert anymore like that and because they wanted a more down-to-earth origin. But even in Captain Marvel she was caught in an explosion in the desert, which was pretty much like a gamma bomb-type origin.

So they could've done something like that for the Incredible Hulk. It would've been new to audiences and far more interesting and dramatic, and literally an explosive start to the movie.

To me, Hulk’s origin is one of the most important in Marvel.

It demonstrated his heroism but also had the Military messing with things they didn’t fully understand and creating their own worst enemy.

If there’s one origin I’d like kept as faithful as possible to the comics, it’s Hulk. It would obviously have to be updated, but I would have liked to keep the key elements.

We don’t actually know the specifics of the current origin, but the montage makes it feel more faithful to the TV show than comic book, and that’s a shame.

 

[Dark Raven]

To me, Hulk’s origin is one of the most important in Marvel.

It demonstrated his heroism but also had the Military messing with things they didn’t fully understand and creating their own worst enemy.

If there’s one origin I’d like kept as faithful as possible to the comics, it’s Hulk. It would obviously have to be updated, but I would have liked to keep the key elements.

We don’t actually know the specifics of the current origin, but the montage makes it feel more faithful to the TV show than comic book, and that’s a shame.

They were trying to do the TV show all over again, which is why it feels tired. They also keep perpetuating the myth to the public that the Hulk doesn't really talk at all but is a mindless savage.

After Ang Lee's Hulk which had the worst origin of all with jellyfish DNA and Banner having the equivalent of being caught between two airport security gates that zapped him, they really needed to up their game with a proper gamma bomb origin. They missed the boat in this regard.

We could really have had Rick Jones in this with TIH and it wouldn't be merely Banner trying to tamper with forces but actually saving someone.

 

[Detective Conan]

I love that F4 is debuting in Phase 4. The late great Jon Schnepp always use to joke about that.

 

[DyeLorean]

If he wasn’t already Daredevil, does anyone here think Charlie Cox would make a good Reed?

I actually think him as Matt Murdock/Daredevil is one of the best casting choices of the entire MCU. Sure, he has a lot more screen time to develop his character, but even so he is REALLY good and easily the best thing out of the Netflix shows. I'm gonna be very happy if they finally include it in the main MCU.

 

[Chris B]

Like The Incredible Hulk?

Pretty much. A cold open would work too.

 

[Web-Head]

Potential candidates for Sue Storm

Emily Blunt:

Lily James:

Ana de Armas:

Samara Weaving:

Amber Heard:

Mackenzie Davis and Rachel Brosnahan are two other names I'm keeping an eye on.

 

[Boom]

Lily James please.

 

[BobJM]

Of those listed, Ana de Armas or Mackenzie Davis.

Tbh I haven’t been following the Depp/Heard saga and don’t have an opinion, but I can’t see MCU approaching either actor.

 

[WatchProtect]

I think an angle they could take Is having a brief flashback of the 4 going to space and all the media coverage. Make it be a really big deal, show them go up into space but have an explosion occur, to the people on earth they're dead and are mourned and missed giving them a built in fanbase back on earth.

The film explores them on the Planet and we get like a 1 year later type thing were we see them exploring some alien Planet, they already control there powers and are relatively happy but you can tell particularly Ben feels some anger towards Reed, some planetary enemies show up (not sure who) and they have a first official team up fight on the planet and manage to get back to Earth.

Earth has a big celebration and the 4 are pushed into celebratory status for returning from the dead and being "Different" turns out one of the alien species come back to earth with the 4 and there's some sort of Earth showcase where they show the world their powers for the first time and become Superheroes, but instead decide to stay on as scientists and reverse what happened to them.

Gives them room to grow in the future, and gives them celebrity status while also not rereading origin stories too heavy, they can be on the Alien planet and on Earth and makes it so they have experience with powers already.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I love that F4 is debuting in Phase 4. The late great Jon Schnepp always use to joke about that.

God bless the Schnepp.

 

[Crimz]

Potential candidates for Sue Storm

Emily Blunt:

Lily James:

Ana de Armas:

Samara Weaving:

Amber Heard:

Mackenzie Davis and Rachel Brosnahan are two other names I'm keeping an eye on.

I don't believe they are the potential candidates for Sue, just the most common fancasts. Plus they also show one of the weaknesses of fancasting, they're all blonde...
Fans tend not to think out of a very confined box and I highly doubt Marvel would limit they're castings to only blonde-haired, blue-eyed women. Hair dye is a thing also we don't know if the Storm siblings will even be white in the MCU.

 

[Hannibal75]

Heard playing another superhero concurrently with Mera might be a bit confusing. Not to mention that if I were a studio head I wouldn't touch her with a ten-foot pole for obvious reasons.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I stated before, I think that Sue's performer needs to "pop" in terms of presence and charisma, probably in a way that is even more endearing and engaging that what's required for the other three.

I'm sorry to say, of the above actresses that I know of, I find them pretty wan in terms of performance ability as well as general presence. Frankly, and this is odd coming from me given my distaste of how much Marvel Studios RELIES upon humor as a cheap crutch so often but perhaps instead of the usual suspects of "gorgeous" young starlets we turn to more comedic performers?