Old MCU Fantastic Four Discussion Thread

[Zarex]

Any ideas for the first trilogy?

FF1 - Moleman/Subterranea

FF2 - Annihilus/Blastaar/Negative Zone

FF3 - Future Foundation (?)

I like the idea of Harvey playing a role in the first film, but I don't think he's enough for a whole film. I'd recreate the FF #1 cover before the Marvel Studios fanfare and have the team sending the monster back to his master after the break. And I love introducing the Future Foundation in the 3rd flick to help make it an evergreen property. I'd go with the following:

FF1 - Annihilus/Blastaar/Negative Zone

FF2 Doctor Doom

FF3 Future Foundation

 

[Silvermoth]

Good lord blastaar? There’s an interesting choice. Who would play him?

also, do you think there’s a way to write Mole Man where he’s not so creepy and incelly around women?

 

[Dark Raven]

Good lord blastaar? There’s an interesting choice. Who would play him?

also, do you think there’s a way to write Mole Man where he’s not so creepy and incelly around women?

Isn't that his thing though and part of his story arc about being shunned? You can't make him some kind of Cassanova and ladies man now.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Isn't that his thing though and part of his story arc about being shunned? You can't make him some kind of Cassanova and ladies man now.

I agree. And if they do a Moleman story I want it to be different than other Superhero films.

It should be driven by mystery and discovery. And when they finally get to the end of their journey, the surprise should be that it’s not a stereotypical super-villain mastermind.

It’s a small, seemingly insignificant little man pulling the levers behind the curtain.

 

[Dark Raven]

Moleman needs to look less like this:

And more like this:

 

[Silvermoth]

Isn't that his thing though and part of his story arc about being shunned? You can't make him some kind of Cassanova and ladies man now.

yeah but I mean doing more with his plot other than “they’re trying to take our women” or like a damsel in distress thing. That was old fashioned even in the last green lantern movie ages ago

 

[Stark Bauer]

yeah but I mean doing more with his plot other than “they’re trying to take our women” or like a damsel in distress thing. That was old fashioned even in the last green lantern movie ages ago

But it works. Don’t fix what ain’t broke. See Star Wars, Titanic, etc

 

[Captain Tired]

There's no call for a sexy Mole Man.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Mole Man would need a Vulture like rebuild from the ground up to make it really work today.

Look... I get it... Most of us are nerd types and we didn't light it up with the ladies and there's something to Moley's sob story that makes us identify with him a little and give him some sympathy.

Thing is... I don't think that works today overall.

As always... let's cut through the bovine excrement.

Mole Man's big issue is he can't get laid and he's angry about it.

Is there something that could be done there? Sure. But not in a film with the obvious mandates a Marvel Studios film has. For one, even if you wanted to explore the idea of Mole Man's ostracism/self pity party a MCU film is not the place to do so with any seriousness or weight. And for the audience in general? I don't think his sob story resonates without some major changes if you simply must keep his whole "I'm too ugly to love" act.

I will never not think... "Get a hooker".

Someone springs for prostitutes for this guy and problem solved. I know we want to take his issues with gravity and seriousness but as the antagonist in a breezy big budget super hero movie... I'm sorry but the audience will think that. "Somebody get this guy laid so we can get these monsters off the streets" would be the go to joke.

No. The form should be there but the specifics of this character need major updates.

 

[Zarex]

Mole Man would need a Vulture like rebuild from the ground up to make it really work today.

Look... I get it... Most of us are nerd types and we didn't light it up with the ladies and there's something to Moley's sob story that makes us identify with him a little and give him some sympathy.

Speak for yourself! I'll have you know me and my Canadian girlfriend are blissfully in love. And you will all get to meet her after the COVID restrictions are lifted!

Thing is... I don't think that works today overall.

As always... let's cut through the bovine excrement.

Mole Man's big issue is he can't get laid and he's angry about it.

Is there something that could be done there? Sure. But not in a film with the obvious mandates a Marvel Studios film has. For one, even if you wanted to explore the idea of Mole Man's ostracism/self pity party a MCU film is not the place to do so with any seriousness or weight. And for the audience in general? I don't think his sob story resonates without some major changes if you simply must keep his whole "I'm too ugly to love" act.

I will never not think... "Get a hooker".

Someone springs for prostitutes for this guy and problem solved. I know we want to take his issues with gravity and seriousness but as the antagonist in a breezy big budget super hero movie... I'm sorry but the audience will think that. "Somebody get this guy laid so we can get these monsters off the streets" would be the go to joke.

No. The form should be there but the specifics of this character need major updates.

I'm thinking the best way to deal with it is de-villainize (?) Mr. Elder. Marvel Studios already did this with M'Baku to great effect. I'd have Harvey be an awkward guy living underground who is mostly okay with his situation. He's a pain in the arse and occasionally his "pets" get loose and cause havoc. But for the most part he's a solid dude.

 

[Detective Conan]

Maybe reinvent Moleman as some sort of Ra’s Al Ghul-esque, Poison Ivy-like misanthropic environmental terrorist who believes the world would be better off if the human race was no longer the dominant species on earth?

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

What I like about Moleman is he’s very real.

We can’t point to many people who have caused mass destruction because they simply “wanted to see the world burn”.

But we can literally point to hundreds of people who have picked up guns and killed lots of people because they felt shunned, alienated, unwanted.

 

[metaphysician]

What I like about Moleman is he’s very real.

We can’t point to many people who have caused mass destruction because they simply “wanted to see the world burn”.

But we can literally point to hundreds of people who have picked up guns and killed lots of people because they felt shunned, alienated, unwanted.

The problem is, that makes for a very banal and unthematic Fantastic Four villain. "Mole Man as violent predatory incel" may be conceptually coherent, but its also a Jessica Jones, or Marvel Knights, villain, not an incarnation of Kirby-esque wonder. Fundamentally, FF villains should reflect upon that sense of wonder, as manifestations of the possibility and danger of the vast unthinkable cosmos.

If you are going to use Mole Man, a much better idea would be to simply deemphasize the entire "he's ugly and no one loves him" angle. What is Mole Man? He's a Mad Scientist, that unbalanced fringe genius who was eventually rejected from the scientific community, not because he's short but because he's a loon. But now, he will show them, he will show them all! *ahem* Subtexts of sexism in the classic Mad Scientist story can still be there, sure, but they should remain as subtexts around the edges, rather than "this is the literal exposited primary motive and theme".

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

The problem is, that makes for a very banal and unthematic Fantastic Four villain. "Mole Man as violent predatory incel" may be conceptually coherent, but its also a Jessica Jones, or Marvel Knights, villain, not an incarnation of Kirby-esque wonder. Fundamentally, FF villains should reflect upon that sense of wonder, as manifestations of the possibility and danger of the vast unthinkable cosmos.

If you are going to use Mole Man, a much better idea would be to simply deemphasize the entire "he's ugly and no one loves him" angle. What is Mole Man? He's a Mad Scientist, that unbalanced fringe genius who was eventually rejected from the scientific community, not because he's short but because he's a loon. But now, he will show them, he will show them all! *ahem* Subtexts of sexism in the classic Mad Scientist story can still be there, sure, but they should remain as subtexts around the edges, rather than "this is the literal exposited primary motive and theme".

To me, a big part of FF is science and exploration.

And the thing that makes science and exploration interesting is that you don’t know what you’re going to get and sometimes there are surprises.

The way I would play this is I would build an expectation in the character’s and viewer’s minds that there is some great, grand mastermind behind all of this.

And I’d feed that idea with moloids or other sentient characters capable of speech talking about “The Master” in grand awestruck terms so the FF are expecting to find a larger-than life megalomaniac.

... only to find a small, kind of pathetic character.

That would be surprising. That would be interesting. That would be different than other Superhero films we’ve seen.

... And it would also be consistent with the story Stan and Jack gave us in FF #1.

Moleman doesn’t need to be a grand character because the environment is the primary source of conflict. We don’t need to see him, and we SHOULDN’T see him or know who he is until the very end of the film.

The journey, rather than the destination, should be the most intriguing part of the film.

 

[Dark Raven]

To me, a big part of FF is science and exploration.

And the thing that makes science and exploration interesting is that you don’t know what you’re going to get and sometimes there are surprises.

The way I would play this is I would build an expectation in the character’s and viewer’s minds that there is some great, grand mastermind behind all of this.

And I’d feed that idea with moloids or other sentient characters capable of speech talking about “The Master” in grand awestruck terms so the FF are expecting to find a larger-than life megalomaniac.

... only to find a small, kind of pathetic character.

That would be surprising. That would be interesting. That would be different than other Superhero films we’ve seen.

... And it would also be consistent with the story Stan and Jack gave us in FF #1.

Moleman doesn’t need to be a grand character because the environment is the primary source of conflict. We don’t need to see him, and we SHOULDN’T see him or know who he is until the very end of the film.

The journey, rather than the destination, should be the most intriguing part of the film.

Think of the Corbomite Manoeuver in the original Star Trek with Balok seeming like he was this frightening and ghastly enemy but that was a facade and he turned out to be a little man.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Think of the Corbomite Manoeuver in the original Star Trek with Balok seeming like he was this frightening and ghastly enemy but that was a facade and he turned out to be a little man.

Most Star Trek episodes were, at their heart, mysteries.

There were some strange set of events and we spent the story wondering what was happening and there was a certain satisfaction in learning the secret, whatever it was.

And that’s what I imagine with a Moleman story. It’s not a battle of wits with a criminal mastermind.

It’s an exploration and Moleman is just the end result of that exploration.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

This theory that Westview is

Spoiler

New Salem

makes a lot of sense and could very well be true.

Though I don't think that necessarily has huge FF implications (other than driving the price of some of my comic books up.

'WandaVision's surreal suburb may contain a huge Fantastic Four clue

 

[Boom]

Surprised this hasn't been given its own forum yet.

 

[Stark Bauer]

I think once they release the pr for the main cast they might. But then again at this rate it will probably take the poster and teaser trailer to get us a forum

 

[The Caped Knight]

With the establishment of S.W.O.R.D in the MCU courtesy of WandaVision. I suspect that Reed Richard's is going to be called upon to be apart the Space program that goes into outer space and probably get the classic comic origins .

 

[Silvermoth]

That would be super cool. Maybe Reed was the one who came up with Sword in the first place!

 

[Darkprime]

 

[Detective Conan]

If FF takes place in modern day, I wonder which FF member died in Infinity War. It could’ve been any of them.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

It could've been all of them...

 

[GoblinScrier]

OMG! I didn't even catch that...what if...damn that would be epic...