Old MCU Fantastic Four Discussion Thread

[Xeno]

In comics he's always been portrayed as a WASP. I'm not sure what point your trying to say.

I'm not trying to answer for Willie but WASP means "White Anglo-Saxon Protestant". Thinking back on the comics, I can't recall Reed ever being shown to have a religious affiliation. Even if he did, Isaac is a Protestant so he fits that part of the description. And Latino isn't a race, it's an ethnicity.

Reed is portrayed as a man with brown eyes and brown hair, greying at the temples. Oscar Isaac fits that description quite nicely.

 

[Detective Conan]

I'm not trying to answer for Willie but WASP means "White Anglo-Saxon Protestant". Thinking back on the comics, I can't recall Reed ever being shown to have a religious affiliation. Even if he did, Isaac is a Protestant so he fits that part of the description. And Latino isn't a race, it's an ethnicity.

Reed is portrayed as a man with brown eyes and brown hair, greying at the temples. Oscar Isaac fits that description quite nicely.

I’m completely stunned how much he resembles Reed Richards in this picture.

 

[HBarnill]

All this because I suggested a more diverse F4. Shame on me.

 

[Smurphftw]

I’m completely stunned how much he resembles Reed Richards in this picture.

The thought of him as Reed Richards is really starting to grow on me. He's very talented and looks enough like him to pull it off.

 

[Xeno]

I’m completely stunned how much he resembles Reed Richards in this picture.

Oscar even has the same brushed-back wavy 'do Reed typically sports. He would be a dreamy Mister Fantastic.

All this because I suggested a more diverse F4. Shame on me.

Hey, don't get upset. We've just been having a perfectly civil discussion. It's not as if what we say here will have any bearing on the film's casting, anyway. This is just a way to have fun, at least for me.

 

[HBarnill]

Oscar even has the same brushed-back wavy 'do Reed typically sports. He would be a dreamy Mister Fantastic.



Hey, don't get upset. We've just been having a perfectly civil discussion. It's not as if what we say here will have any bearing on the film's casting, anyway. This is just a way to have fun, at least for me.

I’m sorry. It’s just this current climate we’re in. Racism hasn’t been this strong since the 60s. People are calling the cops on black people, Native Americans, Mexicans, etc, POC in general are getting murdered by the cops, the Wall is getting serious traction, Muslims are getting banned from entering the country, etc. These people need representation in media, just to show them they’re not alone. To show them everything will be ok. To show them they are welcomed. It’s been a horrid decade and we need inclusion, not separation. Our lives won’t change if Sue Storm isn’t portrayed by a white woman. She’s been a white woman for more than half a century. Get the best person to play the roles, yes, but if it happens to be a POC, don’t lose your minds over it. Or else we’ll just be dealing with more of this:

[YT]https://youtu.be/x67OjOLj11g[/YT]

 

[Marvel united]

I’m sorry. It’s just this current climate we’re in. Racism hasn’t been this strong since the 60s. People are calling the cops on black people, Native Americans, Mexicans, etc, POC in general are getting murdered by the cops, the Wall is getting serious traction, Muslims are getting banned from entering the country, etc. These people need representation in media, just to show them they’re not alone. To show them everything will be ok. To show them they are welcomed. It’s been a horrid decade and we need inclusion, not separation. Our lives won’t change if Sue Storm isn’t portrayed by a white woman. She’s been a white woman for more than half a century. Get the best person to play the roles, yes, but if it happens to be a POC, don’t lose your minds over it. Or else we’ll just be dealing with more of this:

[YT]https://youtu.be/x67OjOLj11g[/YT]

And this is why representation in a film like X-Men matters, man. That's the film/franchise where we address issues like this

 

[HBarnill]

And this is why representation in a film like X-Men matters, man. That's the film/franchise where we address issues like this

Perhaps, but if the X-Men reflects the reality of oppressed minorities, the F4 can reflect the idealized world we want to live in. Despite the bickering and differences, the F4 are a family. Seeing each member of different backgrounds getting together as a loving family can show what we all need to achieve. The one thing I’ll give genuine credit toward the abomination 2015 movie was that having Sue be adopted by Johnny’s family, they could’ve made that commentary of how you don’t need to be of blood or of the same color to be family, a metaphor for the other two members. They never execute that idea in any way but a kernel of an idea was there. It’s up for this new movie to build upon that promise.

 

[fan4stic]

People are talking about casting Oscar Isaac as Reed. They're comfortable with diversity.

 

[Xeno]

I’m sorry. It’s just this current climate we’re in. Racism hasn’t been this strong since the 60s. People are calling the cops on black people, Native Americans, Mexicans, etc, POC in general are getting murdered by the cops, the Wall is getting serious traction, Muslims are getting banned from entering the country, etc. These people need representation in media, just to show them they’re not alone. To show them everything will be ok. To show them they are welcomed. It’s been a horrid decade and we need inclusion, not separation. Our lives won’t change if Sue Storm isn’t portrayed by a white woman. She’s been a white woman for more than half a century. Get the best person to play the roles, yes, but if it happens to be a POC, don’t lose your minds over it. Or else we’ll just be dealing with more of this:

[YT]x67OjOLj11g[/YT]

You're preaching to the choir, with me at least. As a Black woman, I was disappointed that no Black woman had a speaking role in the MCU until Civil War. People of other ethnicities are still waiting. It sometimes feels like we're invisible. The one thing that kept me from giving up on the MCU was knowing that Ike Perlmutter was the person preventing Kevin Feige from including more POC and women in the films. Once Perlmutter was removed from the Marvel Studios chain of command in 2015 I knew things would get better.

There is still plenty of room for improvement but I have faith in Feige's plans for the future of the MCU. The man crafted a cultural phenomenon from Black Panther and proved that a superhero film with a majority-minority cast can be a blockbuster. Captain Marvel is shaping up to be something special, too. As for the reclaimed FF and X-Men, I am sure that Feige will hold true to the principles he laid out in the quote in my signature. There will be more representation in the MCU, regardless of whether specific characters are played by people of color or not.

 

[Crimz]

I'm not trying to answer for Willie but WASP means "White Anglo-Saxon Protestant". Thinking back on the comics, I can't recall Reed ever being shown to have a religious affiliation. Even if he did, Isaac is a Protestant so he fits that part of the description. And Latino isn't a race, it's an ethnicity.

Reed is portrayed as a man with brown eyes and brown hair, greying at the temples. Oscar Isaac fits that description quite nicely.

That's what he's my top choice. I'm pretty sure Reed was Christian in Lee/Kirby's run, I'll have to read it again. Oscar Isaac would count as a diverse change because America is weird when it comes to race and ethnicity. Just look at how some people talk about Latinx people.
He's what I had in mind when I was talking about changing things, I genuinely think he could be one of the best actors for the role.

 

[Silvermoth]

This I can get behind.

Thank you!

And miss a chance for another Stan Lee cameo there?

Yeah I wonder if he would play Willie Lumpkin again? That casting was just too perfect. I wonder if they do the wedding scene again, they would cast a young Stan and jack? That would be cute.

Oh I forgot to cast Alicia Masters! I would love to see Hana Mae Lee get the role because she’s the right age, was so funny in pitch perfect and is adorable but has a quirky artist side too



I tried to find an actress that’s actually blind but I could only find Judi dench and I’m not sure she’s 100% perfect lol

I wonder if they would ever do puppet master? So many good villain choices! For example, I would love to see the mad thinker

 

[GoblinScrier]

Well my Reed of choice is older (52) but an amazing actor and looks pretty much like Richards in the comics...Alexis Denisof...but for someone to have to do this role for several films his age could be in the way...Jon Krasinski is my runner up

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

In comics he's always been portrayed as a WASP. I'm not sure what point your trying to say.

As has been mentioned, I don't recall any mention of his religion. Could he be Catholic? Could he be Jewish? Could he be an atheist? I've never read anything that pinned him as a protestant or Anglo. (not saying there wasn't something over the 60 years, but I never noticed it).

But my point, more broadly, is that our society seems to want to put people in racial boxes (such as "WASP"), but genetics, history and the fact that people aren't thoroughbreds and they have the ability to cross racial lines when they reproduce makes those boxes meaningless.

Let's consider Oscar Isaac. If we just had a photo of him and nothing else, we would have no idea what his ethnic heritage was. He generally looks Mediterranean, but what's that mean? He could be Italian or Jewish or Spanish or Greek... at some point during his family history. But the Roman Empire spread up to Germany and over to England, so he could have those physical features while tracing his family back to Germany or England.

Or he could be Spanish, but the Spaniards spread out to the Americas, so he could trace his family to the Americas. Or he could be Jewish, but Jewish people have spread out from Israel over the past few thousand years.

Bottom line, Oscar Isaac looks the way Reed was drawn, so no matter what Reed's heritage or Isaac's heritage, he can play Reed very easily.

And he's an actor. If you really insist that Reed needs to be a "WASP", Oscar Isaac can play that.

 

[Crimz]

As has been mentioned, I don't recall any mention of his religion. Could he be Catholic? Could he be Jewish? Could he be an atheist? I've never read anything that pinned him as a protestant or Anglo. (not saying there wasn't something over the 60 years, but I never noticed it).

But my point, more broadly, is that our society seems to want to put people in racial boxes (such as "WASP"), but genetics, history and the fact that people aren't thoroughbreds and they have the ability to cross racial lines when they reproduce makes those boxes meaningless.

Let's consider Oscar Isaac. If we just had a photo of him and nothing else, we would have no idea what his ethnic heritage was. He generally looks Mediterranean, but what's that mean? He could be Italian or Jewish or Spanish or Greek... at some point during his family history. But the Roman Empire spread up to Germany and over to England, so he could have those physical features while tracing his family back to Germany or England.

Or he could be Spanish, but the Spaniards spread out to the Americas, so he could trace his family to the Americas. Or he could be Jewish, but Jewish people have spread out from Israel over the past few thousand years.

Bottom line, Oscar Isaac looks the way Reed was drawn, so no matter what Reed's heritage or Isaac's heritage, he can play Reed very easily.

And he's an actor. If you really insist that Reed needs to be a "WASP", Oscar Isaac can play that.

I get that, but most see Reed as that and have some have problems with anything diverging from it. I think Oscar Isaac would be perfect and I am completely fine with any possible changes to race or ethnicity of these characters on film. The thing to get right is their personality and motivations. The previous actors for Reed looked the part but where terrible where it actually mattered.

 

[Iceman]

I’d love Isaac as Reed.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I get that, but most see Reed as that and have some have problems with anything diverging from it.

I can get someone saying: "I don't want Idris Elba, he doesn't look like Reed."

And while I'd be okay with Elba, I can understand and respect that opinion.

When it comes to someone saying: "Oscar Isaac isn't 'white enough' to play Reed.", I have trouble even imagining that, and I think that person would be on the fringe. If someone wants to make that argument, they can have their say, but they'll never convince me.

If you read comic books from the 60's or 70's everybody is going to be that same shade of white, but that doesn't mean the writers and artists weren't imagining the same kind of variety of people we see in real life, it's because they basically had two inks - one for white people and one for black people. Jack Kirby may have imagined Reed having a darker complexion, but he couldn't express that, because he was working in a medium that was limited.

In fact, here's a panel with Wyatt Wingfoot, the same shade as everyone else:

I don't expect any films based on these characters to have the same shade across all people in the name of "comic accuracy", because that would just be ridiculous.

 

[Havok83]

As far as ages, I would go with

Reed/Ben - late 30s/early 40s
Sue - about 28-32
Johnny - 21-23

 

[DalekbusterFitz]

And miss a chance for another Stan Lee cameo there?

Stan Lee cameos aren't exactly hard to fit in. Just make him a lollipop man instead.

 

[DalekbusterFitz]

Right. A story about discriminated minorities which were based on the Civil rights era of the 60s, SHOULD have more minorities in the movie. The Fox X-Men movies did have a problem with diversity and they even white washed certain roles like Sunspot and Cecilia Reyes. The X-Men absolutely should be more diverse ala Spider-Man Homecoming.

F4? Change for the sake of change with no real reason for the changes

It could really add an extra dimension for the film. A good way to set out a future Wolverine away from Hugh Jackman would also be to cast an ethnic minority in the role.

 

[Dark Raven]

Stan Lee cameos aren't exactly hard to fit in. Just make him a lollipop man instead.

The idea is not just to have any cameo but to have him as Willie Lumpkin in the MCU.

 

[Darkprime]

I feel like Peyton Reed should get the gig. Through out the antman and the wasp press tour hes been geeking out over the F4 talking about his pitch to Fox back in the day. I like his action scenes in antman the wasp as well. While watching it a couple scenes i was expecting human torch to come flying past from just the way it was filmed.

 

[Jordacar]

I expect Peyton will at least get a "story by" credit. He's so close to the operation they might as well let him contribute.

 

[Silvermoth]

I definitely wouldn’t be upset if Reed got the gig. He did wonders with Antman and the wasp I reckon.

Hey what do you think about Alex Borstein as the Thing’s Aunt Petunia.



She’s fantastic on family guy as Lois and she’s getting a lot of critical attention for the marvellous maisal. She would be so great in an origin scene where she’s driving reed and Ben to school and teaches them the term “it’s clobbering time”!

 

[Dark Raven]

Didn't Aunt Petunia turn out to be this really young and attractive aunt in the comics when they met her? I don't know if someone has a panel of it they can post.

But one hot aunt is probably enough with Aunt May.