Old MCU Fantastic Four Discussion Thread

[KRYPTON INC.]

I still feel Sue in the MCU should be from a totally different "world" than Reed. Anything that abuts Reed's usual magesteria like medicine will always feel off to me.

And in all honesty she's going to need a different set of skills if she's the beating heart as it were of the FF as an entity that has to operate on multiple levels, most of which have zero to do with being a medical doctor.

I still feel that the world of something like Public Relations at the high end of the spectrum, something like running her own firm which puts her smack in the middle of the rich and elite of NYC on a regular basis before she gets involved with Reed. I would make her the person who understands "branding" and running any kind of organization that requires, well... More than four people to run. This also gives her a bunch of "ins" that can be potentially helpful to the team in a particular story or in general.

Reed: "Sue... You have to understand what these readings mean... The whole of Manhattan is in trouble... GAH! If only I could contact the Mayor directly right now...!"(Noticing Sue getting on her Smartphone.)

Reed: "Who are you calling?"

Sue: The mayor. It's... (looks at phone again) a quarter after six, so he's back at Gracie Mansion by now... Has to be. His wife's spin class is over by then and it's a Monday so their deal is he cooks a meal for her and then it's the olde Netflix and chill, which is all part of their couseling to keep him from handing the key to the city to every other intern with a..."

(Sue notices Reed just staring at her, amazed she's so Johnny on the spot with her connections.)

Sue: What? I had a life before you. I was on the mayor's media team when he was just a no name coucilman. I know where all the bodies are buried... Once he hears it's Sue Storm we'll be in front of him in 40 minutes... Maybe less if you can get that flying bathtub of yours to work so we don't have to rely on the R train, which... After seeing those creatures, I'm not sure I'm gonna ever taking a subway again..."


Reed: "Susan... Is there anything you can't do?"

Sue: "Get Johnny to actually finish high school instead of trying to become the 21st Century Evel Knievel before the age of 17?" (Sue's attention turns to call)

 

[Crimz]

I still feel Sue in the MCU should be from a totally different "world" than Reed. Anything that abuts Reed's usual magesteria like medicine will always feel off to me.

And in all honesty she's going to need a different set of skills if she's the beating heart as it were of the FF as an entity that has to operate on multiple levels, most of which have zero to do with being a medical doctor.

I still feel that the world of something like Public Relations at the high end of the spectrum, something like running her own firm which puts her smack in the middle of the rich and elite of NYC on a regular basis before she gets involved with Reed. I would make her the person who understands "branding" and running any kind of organization that requires, well... More than four people to run. This also gives her a bunch of "ins" that can be potentially helpful to the team in a particular story or in general.

Reed: "Sue... You have to understand what these readings mean... The whole of Manhattan is in trouble... GAH! If only I could contact the Mayor directly right now...!"(Noticing Sue getting on her Smartphone.)

Reed: "Who are you calling?"

Sue: The mayor. It's... (looks at phone again) a quarter after six, so he's back at Gracie Mansion by now... Has to be. His wife's spin class is over by then and it's a Monday so their deal is he cooks a meal for her and then it's the olde Netflix and chill, which is all part of their couseling to keep him from handing the key to the city to every other intern with a..."

(Sue notices Reed just staring at her, amazed she's so Johnny on the spot with her connections.)

Sue: What? I had a life before you. I was on the mayor's media team when he was just a no name coucilman. I know where all the bodies are buried... Once he hears it's Sue Storm we'll be in front of him in 40 minutes... Maybe less if you can get that flying bathtub of yours to work so we don't have to rely on the R train, which... After seeing those creatures, I'm not sure I'm gonna ever taking a subway again..."


Reed: "Susan... Is there anything you can't do?"

Sue: "Get Johnny to actually finish high school instead of trying to become the 21st Century Evel Knievel before the age of 17?" (Sue's attention turns to call)

For me, that's a lot like Pepper and Tony and I want Reed and Sue to feel different. While Tony is much more savvy than Reed when it comes to PR, Pepper was the one who really held it together. My other worry is that it makes Sue feel more like Reed's assistant, just like Pepper was for Tony.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

For me, that's a lot like Pepper and Tony and I want Reed and Sue to feel different. While Tony is much more savvy than Reed when it comes to PR, Pepper was the one who really held it together. My other worry is that it makes Sue feel more like Reed's assistant, as that's how Pepper often felt with Tony.

See I see it more that Sue can come in clutch in ways no one else there can with the addition that I would love there to be "mystery" in what Sue is capable of doing with her connections to a world and way of thinking that is, frankly, not in Reed's wheelhouse what so ever. We can usually never see Reed as someone that puts much thought or effort into a world like advertising, branding, public relations, politics etc.

Not that he's stupid or doesn't understand that they are things that exist and in fact can and do affect his world of scientific research, discovery and the application thereof to practical use... It's just not his world. Ask him to count out the first 300 combinations of the amino acids that make up the begining of the humane genome and he'll do that. Ask him the specifics about the political scandal that ended up with SHIELD closing down it's R&D facility because of budget cuts and... No. He will need to be told that since he's focused the last couple of weeks at the whiteboard go over by hand calculations on how he can get a tachyon to travel across all possible known dimensions. For him what Sue can do is AMAZING... To him. Because for all his brilliance Reed has blind spots. And it's Sue that on both the practical and emotional level help to give those blind spots focus or help to make sure that they aren't easily exploited.

As such... The FF and Reed in particular in my conception NEEDS someone that actually does have an "in" into the worlds of business, finance, politics/government, celebrity, everything that it takes to make them the power base unto themselves in the Marvel Universe. Someone that is able to navigate all that because of experience with or in those areas is likely gonna be a little bit more cynical than the average person, maybe ESPECIALLY if they are deep down good people.

Which is another thing about Sue and to a large extent Johnny not having "technical" backgrounds because, well... We the audience NEED to have someone for the big heads to talk to and explain stuff to. It makes no sense for Reed or even Ben (Yeah... Ben can't be a fool or some meathead... He was an Air Force officer, combat and test pilot. He WOULD have a degree or two or three under his belt, forget it if he was supposed to be either an Air Force Academy attendee or someone at all associated with NASA/Space Flight.) to drone on in exposition if Sue and/or Johnny should be also experts that in no way should NEED any of these things explained to them, which is MORE demeaning in its way than if they both were just not scientifically inclined. One way feels condescending for no reason, the other makes sense. Oh, you don't know about the time dilation theory of faster than light travel/the theory of cross genetic disemination/the quantum theory of... Well that's fine. No one was expecting you to since... You're not a scientist/doctor/engineer.

 

[Crimz]

See I see it more that Sue can come in clutch in ways no one else there can with the addition that I would love there to be "mystery" in what Sue is capable of doing with her connections to a world and way of thinking that is, frankly, not in Reed's wheelhouse what so ever. We can usually never see Reed as someone that puts much thought or effort into a world like advertising, branding, public relations, politics etc.

Not that he's stupid or doesn't understand that they are things that exist and in fact can and do affect his world of scientific research, discovery and the application thereof to practical use... It's just not his world. Ask him to count out the first 300 combinations of the amino acids that make up the begining of the humane genome and he'll do that. Ask him the specifics about the political scandal that ended up with SHIELD closing down it's R&D facility because of budget cuts and... No. He will need to be told that since he's focused the last couple of weeks at the whiteboard go over by hand calculations on how he can get a tachyon to travel across all possible known dimensions. For him what Sue can do is AMAZING... To him. Because for all his brilliance Reed has blind spots. And it's Sue that on both the practical and emotional level help to give those blind spots focus or help to make sure that they aren't easily exploited.

As such... The FF and Reed in particular in my conception NEEDS someone that actually does have an "in" into the worlds of business, finance, politics/government, celebrity, everything that it takes to make them the power base unto themselves in the Marvel Universe. Someone that is able to navigate all that because of experience with or in those areas is likely gonna be a little bit more cynical than the average person, maybe ESPECIALLY if they are deep down good people.

Which is another thing about Sue and to a large extent Johnny not having "technical" backgrounds because, well... We the audience NEED to have someone for the big heads to talk to and explain stuff to. It makes no sense for Reed or even Ben (Yeah... Ben can't be a fool or some meathead... He was an Air Force officer, combat and test pilot. He WOULD have a degree or two or three under his belt, forget it if he was supposed to be either an Air Force Academy attendee or someone at all associated with NASA/Space Flight.) to drone on in exposition if Sue and/or Johnny should be also experts that in no way should NEED any of these things explained to them, which is MORE demeaning in its way than if they both were just not scientifically inclined. One way feels condescending for no reason, the other makes sense. Oh, you don't know about the time dilation theory of faster than light travel/the theory of cross genetic disemination/the quantum theory of... Well that's fine. No one was expecting you to since... You're not a scientist/doctor/engineer.

While that role may or may not be brilliant from Reed's perspective, for me it bores me. There's potential here to give her an active role during missions outside of her powers. I'm not interested in board room scenes or anything like that beyond a mention or two. We have a 2 hour film or so and those type of scenes tend to take away from the momentum of the film for me.

Having said that it's also a role that can easily be ignored, as in they give her a passing scene or line and that's it. No more mention of it at all throughout the series of films. The same thing happened with Alba's version where she was a scientist. Because Reed is the scientist it basically made her his assistant in the first film and it was never brought up again. That's why I agree that she shouldn't be a scientist like Reed, but that doesn't mean she shouldn't be in a field like medicine. Reed is a physicist, it's a completely different field to medicine which allows them to be separate enough to not take away from each other.

You mentioned Reed explaining science-y things to a Sue who's a scientist would be incredibly condescending and that's true. But a doctor is not the same as a physicist. I don't expect my doctor to know about the theory of relativity same way I wouldn't expect Neil Degrasse Tyson to operate on a stab wound. He can still explain things to a Sue who is a MD or a historian and it not being a problem.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I'm concerned that this is going to become a cliché, generic super-group.

One of the things that made the FF interesting is they weren't a team of scientists/adventurers. They were a group of people from very different backgrounds who wouldn't normally be working together, but the accident turned that disparate group into a team.

 

[Loden Greatstorm]

I'm just concerned that we may not see F4 for another 5 years.

 

[Zarex]

I'm concerned that this is going to become a cliché, generic super-group.

One of the things that made the FF interesting is they weren't a team of scientists/adventurers. They were a group of people from very different backgrounds who wouldn't normally be working together, but the accident turned that disparate group into a team.

We've already seen very different beings with very different backgrounds coming together to fight onscreen in Avengers, Justice League, GOTG & Suicide Squad. I've never seen the FF that way. They are an actual family as opposed to a found family, with both the college roomies and the Storm siblings having a long, shared history.

If Sue is not going to be a full time mom from the get go, I feel it is important to give her a viable adventuring skill to go along with Reed's science wizardry, Ben's piloting and Johnny's grease monkeying. MD fits in with her role as the team mom, and letting her put the bactine on Cosmic Control Rod burns doesn't take away from Reed's status as a Polymath. I'd prefer Sue be Team Doctor than lesser scientist, PR flack or actress.

 

[Marvel united]

I like the idea of Sue being an M.D. as I think that accents a more bubbly, warm personality for her: caring about other people's pain and such. It's a good skill for her to have. I also think it compliments her powers, since she mostly uses them defensively

This may be a controversial idea but I like the idea of Ben Grimm being in the NFL. I know Grimm played football in HS but I mean as an actual career profession. I think that would make his transformation all the more tragic as his life he had ahead of him, was stolen from him.

I also think it could explain some of his fighting techniques. Maybe Grimm was a star quarterback

 

[CaptainWagner]

I'm concerned that this is going to become a cliché, generic super-group.

One of the things that made the FF interesting is they weren't a team of scientists/adventurers. They were a group of people from very different backgrounds who wouldn't normally be working together, but the accident turned that disparate group into a team.

Really? Because as far as I can tell the entire selling point of the Fantastic Four has been a team of scientists and adventurers for pretty much the whole modern era. The "brilliant scientist takes his girlfriend and her kid brother, both completely without relevant skills, on a dangerous space mission" is without a doubt the dumbest origin in comics, IMO. There's a reason it's never adapted that way.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I feel like they should become adventurers, they shouldn’t start that way.

i want to see the wonder from the viewpoint of relatively normal people.

it’s easy to reinvent them and make them fit most people’s ideas of a super-team. It’s a lot harder to make something that captures the elements that made them revolutionary in the early 60’s.

That doesn’t mean a literal translation from the early books, but it means maintaining the spirit in a modern, believable setting.

Fox thought the FF sucked, so they reinvented them. I hope Marvel has the courage and creativity to do something more faithful.

 

[Albright]

the internet is full today of campaigning for Jack Black in MCU role...why haven’t I thought of the obvious thing yet: Jack Black as The Thing

 

[BobJM]

I love Jack Black, but he doesn’t jump out as Thing to me.

Maybe Mole Man to be completely honest

 

[Crimz]

I feel like they should become adventurers, they shouldn’t start that way.

i want to see the wonder from the viewpoint of relatively normal people.

it’s easy to reinvent them and make them fit most people’s ideas of a super-team. It’s a lot harder to make something that captures the elements that made them revolutionary in the early 60’s.

That doesn’t mean a literal translation from the early books, but it means maintaining the spirit in a modern, believable setting.

Fox thought the FF sucked, so they reinvented them. I hope Marvel has the courage and creativity to do something more faithful.

Having Sue be a doctor still maintains this. A doctor isn't a rare profession that only the smartest in the world can achieve. It's a relatively normal job full of "normal" people. She'd still be amazed by the things the FF discover, the only difference is that she would now have a skill set that benefits the team outside of her powers.

It doesn't really change the fundamental make-up of the team, but it does benefit Sue as a character to be more than Reed' s girlfriend he brings along.

Johnny on the other hand could go either because part of his character is feeling like the odd one out and the one who doesn't contribute much to the team. So him being the one unqualified for the first mission fits him and his story of trying to find himself and prove his worth. Sue having a field of expertise changes nothing as long as it's not a field like Reeds which was the problem with the previous FF films.

 

[Crimz]

Also, Sue is the one who should have the least inspiration from the 60s run. 60s Sue was not a good character and was solely Reeds girlfriend who happened to get powers too. She only really flourished after that run, so changes from that are only for the better imo.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Having Sue be a doctor still maintains this. A doctor isn't a rare profession that only the smartest in the world can achieve. It's a relatively normal job full of "normal" people. She'd still be amazed by the things the FF discover, the only difference is that she would now have a skill set that benefits the team outside of her powers.

It doesn't really change the fundamental make-up of the team, but it does benefit Sue as a character to be more than Reed' s girlfriend he brings along.

Johnny on the other hand could go either because part of his character is feeling like the odd one out and the one who doesn't contribute much to the team. So him being the one unqualified for the first mission fits him and his story of trying to find himself and prove his worth. Sue having a field of expertise changes nothing as long as it's not a field like Reeds which was the problem with the previous FF films.

I’m fine with Sue being a Dr.

I’m less fine with her being part of an organized mission - a trained astronaut.

Make her a space tourist going along for the ride to keep her closer to the original character.

 

[Crimz]

I’m fine with Sue being a Dr.

I’m less fine with her being part of an organized mission - a trained astronaut.

Make her a space tourist going along for the ride to keep her closer to the original character.

No she definitely shouldn't be an astrounat. I still think the first "mission" is them stealing/hijacking the transportation device Reed creates.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

No she definitely shouldn't be an astrounat. I still think the first "mission" is them stealing/hijacking the transportation device Reed creates.

That works for me.

What I want to avoid is Sue and Johnny being trained professionals.

If someone’s an astronaut, they’ve been through 1000 simulations. They know everything that can go right and everything that can go wrong. They’re focused on instruments and numbers and contingencies. They’re not looking out the window with amazement and wonder.

 

[Iceman]

I’m fine with Sue being a Dr.

I’m less fine with her being part of an organized mission - a trained astronaut.

Make her a space tourist going along for the ride to keep her closer to the original character.

Yeah, doctor and space tourist sounds like a combo I'd be happy with.

 

[Iceman]

I like the idea of Sue being an M.D. as I think that accents a more bubbly, warm personality for her: caring about other people's pain and such. It's a good skill for her to have. I also think it compliments her powers, since she mostly uses them defensively

I like the way you described that with her defensive-natured powers being complemented with skills as a doctor. I'm definitely for this.

 

[metaphysician]

Really? Because as far as I can tell the entire selling point of the Fantastic Four has been a team of scientists and adventurers for pretty much the whole modern era. The "brilliant scientist takes his girlfriend and her kid brother, both completely without relevant skills, on a dangerous space mission" is without a doubt the dumbest origin in comics, IMO. There's a reason it's never adapted that way.

This. While I understand the desire to have audience-stand-ins who can have the technobabble explained to them. . . ultimately, there needs to be a reason for Sue and Johnny to be on The Mission. And it needs to be a reason that doesn't not paint Reed and Ben as either the villains of the piece. Does this mean Sue needs to be some scientific genius? No. But it does mean that, relative to the expected danger level of The Mission as conceived in the movie, they both *must* have sufficient competence to explain why a not-insane, not-callous individual would consider it a good idea to bring them along. And even if The Mission is "Reed takes up his privately constructed FTL prototype to do a quick test flight to the moon and back, with no particular expected risk and everyone home in time for dinner"? That's still an expected risk level way beyond "Bring your zero skill girlfriend and her zero skill kid brother along".

 

[CaptainWagner]

If someone’s an astronaut, they’ve been through 1000 simulations. They know everything that can go right and everything that can go wrong. They’re focused on instruments and numbers and contingencies. They’re not looking out the window with amazement and wonder.

I mean... I feel like the recorded actual responses of astronauts going into space for the first time kind of contradict this...

 

[Detective Conan]

One thing I never understood about the original origin is why Reed and the others didn’t go to prison for illegally breaking into a space station and stealing a ship.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

One thing I never understood about the original origin is why Reed and the others didn’t go to prison for illegally breaking into a space station and stealing a ship.

They were trying to beat the Commies to the moon! No tribunal in the 60's would convict them... Unless they were working for the godless Reds!

 

[Detective Conan]

The original FF origin isn’t great, but I like the aspect of Reed’s hubris being the primary cause for teams existence. This element has always been good fodder for drama especially when it comes to Ben and his guilt for basically turning his friend into a monster.

The problem with the adaptions is they miss the element of the team’s mutation largely being the fault of Reed Richards. Reed’s arrogance and is what “ruined” the FF’s lives, it was his idea to steal the spaceship and drag his best friend and girlfriend to a space adventure. Because he knew he was culpable in their transformations, he decided to market and brand the team as celebrities in order to avoid being treated like freaks and monsters.

No matter what they do with the origin, I want them to retain the aspect of the accident being largely Reed’s fault and his guilt because of it. Especially when it comes to Ben. Reed is way more responsible for his best friend Ben’s life being ruined than Peter Parker is responsible for uncle Ben’s life ending.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I mean... I feel like the recorded actual responses of astronauts going into space for the first time kind of contradict this...

Of course someone going into space for the first time is going to notice they’re in space and they’re going to comment on it - that’s part of their job.

But there’s a huge difference between the perspective of someone who has spent years training for a job and then does that job with an intense focus on the tasks required as opposed to someone who is thrown into that situation as an observer.

And if you actually listen to the entirety of those audio recordings you mention - not just the ‘highlights’ - you’ll find that 99.9 % of them are checking readings, confirming status, asking for instruction etc. etc. etc.