Homecoming Orci Officially Off Amazing 3

[Kahran Ramsus]

The basic concept of the MCU Avengers is also similar to the Ultimates. The idea that they are a team brought together by the American government to fight superhuman threats that the conventional military can't handle. But they went in a different direction in the film, with The Avengers and even Fury distrusting SHIELD and eventually ending up on the outs (and SHIELD itself being disbanded in TWS).

 

[SpideyK]

@Kahran Rasmus

Probably a coincidence, yes. But I'm just expressing my opinion. I said I'd always felt that the Raimi movies felt Ultimate, in nature.

@The Joker

That's apperance, yeah.

I'll just refer to Kahran's most recent post when it comes to what other things they have in common.

 

[Angryfantasyfan]

@Kahran Rasmus

Probably a coincidence, yes. But I'm just expressing my opinion. I said I'd always felt that the Raimi movies felt Ultimate, in nature.

Could it be because both are derivatives of the original series?

 

[blake c]

@Joker The whole wrestling thing in SM1 was legitimately ripped right off the page tbh. Of course it happened in the original comics, but not this detailed. The whole Goblin being the first villain also, Mary Jane as his first love interest. Harry from the Raimi series is defiantly based off the Ultimate version, there is so much

 

[The Joker]

@Joker The whole wrestling thing in SM1 was legitimately ripped right off the page tbh. Of course it happened in the original comics, but not this detailed. The whole Goblin being the first villain also, Mary Jane as his first love interest. Harry from the Raimi series is defiantly based off the Ultimate version, there is so much

What details are so specific from the wrestling scene that it had to come from USM?

Goblin being the first villain is rubbish. Unfounded nonsense. They had decided LONG before USM came along that Goblin was going to be the villain, along with Ock, but they decided it was too cramped having three origins in the movie so they cut Ock out.

The MJ as the love interest has been refuted beautifully by myself and Kahran Ramsus. Raimi couldn't have been that influenced by Ultimate Spider-Man since he was hired and the script written before the first issue of Ultimate Spider-Man was even released. Even at the time they started filming for SM1 in early January 2001, only two issues of Ultimate Spider-Man had come out. The MJ thing is a coincidence. He used her because she is the most well known and popular of his love interests from the comics. Same reason why he chose Norman Osborn to be the villain.

In what way is Harry based off the Ultimate version? Explain that in detail and show proof of it, too. All you've done is say it's based off USM without providing a lick of proof or valid reasoning why. It's time to back up these unfounded claims. So lets see it.

 

[OcStat]

I don't think all of it is purely coincidental, Brian Michael Bendis himself has said they at least asked for his input, after seeing a rough cut of the film with Stan Lee.

However much of that input was taken and actually made it's way into the movie, I do not know. Maybe none if it. He mostly talked about discussing dialogue (mainly Spider-Man's lack thereof) with the film's crew. In the interview it is was mentioned in Bendis didn't seem to thrilled with that experience. But still, the Ultimate line is a modernization of the classic stories, so there is going to be similarities when they are modernizing the same story for a contemporary film.

Though no one can dispute the heart of the Raimi films is firmly placed inside the Lee/Ditko era, it still has things in common with the Ultimate version even if the Ultimate book wasn't a direct or main influence.

 

[The Joker]

Not all of it is purely coincidental, Brian Michael Bendis himself has said they at least asked for his input, after seeing a rough cut of the film with Stan Lee.

However much of that input was taken and actually made it's way into the movie, I do not know. Maybe none if it. In the interview it is was mentioned in Bendis didn't seem to thrilled with that experience. But still, the Ultimate line is a modernization of the classic stories, so there is going to be similarities when they are modernizing the same story for contemporary film.

Two things;

1. If he saw a rough cut of the movie, that means the movie was done filming. As far as I know they never went back and re-filmed or changed any scenes in the movie. Unless you've got proof they did?

2. What makes you think they asked Bendis and Lee's input so they could make changes? Studios often show rough cuts of movies to people actively involved or invested in the subject matter of the movie just to hear their feedback.

Any similarities between Raimi's movie and USM, and there is not many, is purely coincidental because they're both based off the same subject matter. If there was any direct influence on the movie it would be easy as pie to produce some shred of proof.

 

[blake c]

What details are so specific from the wrestling scene that it had to come from USM?

Goblin being the first villain is rubbish. Unfounded nonsense. They had decided LONG before USM came along that Goblin was going to be the villain, along with Ock, but they decided it was too cramped having three origins in the movie so they cut Ock out.

The MJ as the love interest has been refuted beautifully by myself and Kahran Ramsus. Raimi couldn't have been that influenced by Ultimate Spider-Man since he was hired and the script written before the first issue of Ultimate Spider-Man was even released. Even at the time they started filming for SM1 in early January 2001, only two issues of Ultimate Spider-Man had come out. The MJ thing is a coincidence. He used her because she is the most well known and popular of his love interests from the comics. Same reason why he chose Norman Osborn to be the villain.

In what way is Harry based off the Ultimate version? Explain that in detail and show proof of it, too. All you've done is say it's based off USM without providing a lick of proof or valid reasoning why. It's time to back up these unfounded claims. So lets see it.

You are right about there being only two issues of Ultimate Spider-man being out, and these are the ones it legitimately takes after, besides SM1 is a origin movie anyway, so of course it would take inspiration from those two regardless even if there was more. There is literally comic panels that mirror scenes in SM1. The wrestling especially. In The Amazing comics, Peter meets Harry in college, while in the Ultimate they are friends in highschool and Peter helps him with school and he tries to get the bullies not to pick on him as bad.
Give me a sec and I'll show some pictures of the comic panels. I was googling to find them but couldn't. Glad I won the comics.

 

[blake c]

Also, I have the special feature disk on SM1 and I'm pretty sure they talk about the Ultimate comics as inspiration. And I do remember something about Bendis not being to thrilled.

 

[The Joker]

You are right about there being only two issues of Ultimate Spider-man being out, and these are the ones it legitimately takes after, besides SM1 is a origin movie anyway, so of course it would take inspiration from those two regardless even if there was more.

Are you seriously trying to sell me the notion that when the first major Spider-Man movie went into production it decided to take script ideas of some newbie elseworlds title that had just started in the comics?

There is literally comic panels that mirror scenes in SM1. The wrestling especially.

Name them. Give me details and pics, too, if possible. I want solid irrefutable proof.

In The Amazing comics, Peter meets Harry in college, while in the Ultimate they are friends in highschool and Peter helps him with school and he tries to get the bullies not to pick on him as bad.

Wrong. In Ultimate they become friends in High School, whereas in Raimi's universe they are already friends from the get-go, and presumably have been friends for years.

Give me a sec and I'll show some pictures of the comic panels. I was googling to find them but couldn't. Glad I won the comics.

I can't wait to see them.

Also, I have the special feature disk on SM1 and I'm pretty sure they talk about the Ultimate comics as inspiration. And I do remember something about Bendis not being to thrilled.

I have the special features disk, too. Point me to where on it they supposedly say this.

 

[blake c]

Going to apologize in advance for my potato camera

 

[blake c]

And no, originally in The Amazing Spider-man comics, things were rocky between the two. In Ultimate Peter and Harry have known each other for a while.

 

[Frodo]

Raimi films were basically Lee/Dikto mixed with the 90's STAS to a lesser extent. I do think James Franco certainly looks more like the Ultimate Harry and has much more of the handsome Rich kid type image than the sort of weaker/ meeker Harry of the 60's -80s. Other than that , I'm not sure what else is ultimates influence. I think Dane's Harry was a bit closer to the Lee/Ditko Harry in terms of look , though he was far from meek and passive.

The organic webshooters, and Ben's carjacking is from the James Cameron script, MJ being the love interest I also think was influenced to some extent by the Cameron Script in addition to the 90s cartoon and her popularity in the comics, And I think they kept Osborn as opposed to Ock because there was a much stronger story arc with the Osborn family and their relationship to the hero.

 

[The Joker]

And no, originally in The Amazing Spider-man comics, things were rocky between the two. In Ultimate Peter and Harry have known each other for a while.

I'm not talking about The Amazing Spider-Man comics. I'm talking about the movies. In Raimi's movie Harry and Peter are friends from the beginning of the movie, and Harry is not friends with Flash Thompson.

In USM Harry is a rich arrogant git who is friends with Flash and his gang, and uses Peter to do his homework for him on the sly in Peter's basement.

 

[blake c]

Okay here it goes, my comparison between The Ultimate Spider-man comics and SM1 to show that inspiration was took form the Ultimate comics.
First, toward the beginning of the movie you have somewhat of a food fight that takes place between Peter and Flash. The same takes place in the Ultimate comics, just Peter doesn't have his powers yet unlike in the movie.

Next we have Flash picking on Peter. Of course it happened in The Amazing comics as well, but not nearly as bad as in The Ultimate Spider-man and here we see Flash picking on him very similarly like in the movie imo.

Here we have Harry somewhat defending Peter and the teacher stepping out just like the movie

Heres the actual fight between Flash and Peter

He grabs his hand just like in the movie and breaks it (at least I assumed he broke it in the movie)

Heres the wrestling that is really alike

Lastly, here shows how he got his name, just like the movie. Its even from wrestling as well

 

[blake c]

I'm not talking about The Amazing Spider-Man comics. I'm talking about the movies. In Raimi's movie Harry and Peter are friends from the beginning of the movie, and Harry is not friends with Flash Thompson.

In USM Harry is a rich arrogant git who is friends with Flash and his gang, and uses Peter to do his homework for him on the sly in Peter's basement.

Sorry about then. Geez talking about the movies and comics are hard now haha Especially with the same name. Shoulda named the new movies Ultimate since they are more Ultimate inspired besides Gwen tbh.

 

[OcStat]

Two things;

1. If he saw a rough cut of the movie, that means the movie was done filming. As far as I know they never went back and re-filmed or changed any scenes in the movie. Unless you've got proof they did?

2. What makes you think they asked Bendis and Lee's input so they could make changes? Studios often show rough cuts of movies to people actively involved or invested in the subject matter of the movie just to hear their feedback.

Any similarities between Raimi's movie and USM, and there is not many, is purely coincidental because they're both based off the same subject matter. If there was any direct influence on the movie it would be easy as pie to produce some shred of proof.

I never said they did make any changes after that meeting. He did provide feedback but I am guessing none of it was taken. Like I said, he discussed dialogue with them, because they asked him to. He tried to hand off quips for Spider-Man to say, which could have easily been dubbed by Maguire into the film for his Spider-Man scenes. But things like Spidey making fun of Green Goblins outfit were disregarded because "We [Sony] spent a lot of money on that suit", according to Bendis, Sony's exact reply. The interview was either in one of the Trades, or the back of issue 100, the latter if memory serves me correctly. He also said they asked him and Stan to sit down with them after the screening, and Stan swiftly declined (Most likely because he knew how the discussion would go). It was more than just getting feedback, even if they didn't use any of his suggestions.

People have listed more than a few connections that could be made between the Ultimate origin and the first Raimi movie. Coincidental or not, you can't say those observations are inaccurate.

 

[blake c]

Trying to figure out why some pictures posted sideways. I just... I have so many issues posting pics here lol Something always goes wrong

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I'm not talking about The Amazing Spider-Man comics. I'm talking about the movies. In Raimi's movie Harry and Peter are friends from the beginning of the movie, and Harry is not friends with Flash Thompson.

In USM Harry is a rich arrogant git who is friends with Flash and his gang, and uses Peter to do his homework for him on the sly in Peter's basement.

He also was a part of the same accident that turned Norman Osborn into the Green Goblin and as a result knew that his father was a monster from the very beginning, which is most definitely NOT his main character arc in the Raimi films.

Also, the wrestling thing is done differently as well. In the film SM1, the promoter is pissed off that Peter beat his star wrestler and screws him over with regards to his payout which leads to Ben's death. In USM, both the promoter and the wrestlers are impressed and Peter is given a job for awhile as a professional wrestler where he lets the fame go to his head.

 

[blake c]

Eventually they both tried to screw him over and led to Ben's death though, and yeah Harry does take more inspiration in the Raimi verse from the 616 universe but there is some aspects from Ultimate

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Eventually they both tried to screw him over and led to Ben's death though

Not really. In USM, somebody is stealing from the box office take (to my knowledge, I don't think we ever found out who) and the promoter and the other wrestlers blame Spider-Man because he refuses to show them his true identity. The crook that kills Uncle Ben is not a part of that. Shortly after that Peter escapes there is a completely unrelated robbery which Peter does nothing to stop, and then a few days later the same robber tries to break into Ben's home and murders him while Peter had blown them off and gone to a party at Kong's house.

 

[The Joker]

Okay here it goes, my comparison between The Ultimate Spider-man comics and SM1 to show that inspiration was took form the Ultimate comics.

Ok, lets see what you've got then...

First, toward the beginning of the movie you have somewhat of a food fight that takes place between Peter and Flash. The same takes place in the Ultimate comics, just Peter doesn't have his powers yet unlike in the movie.

There was no food fight between Peter and Flash in the movie. Peter accidentally flung a tray at him when his web accidentally fired out and stuck to it.

In USM it's just Flash being a bully throwing food at Peter, and Peter just sitting there taking it.

Next we have Flash picking on Peter. Of course it happened in The Amazing comics as well, but not nearly as bad as in The Ultimate Spider-man and here we see Flash picking on him very similarly like in the movie imo.

You're joking right? Flash often got physically nasty in the comics with Peter, and in the 90's animated series, too;

Go to 10 minutes and 44 seconds in;

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x21t8w_spider-man-make-a-wish_shortfilms

Here we have Harry somewhat defending Peter and the teacher stepping out just like the movie

That's not Harry defending Peter. That's Harry getting his mates to lay off his meal ticket for getting his homework done. In Raimi's movies Harry is Peter's friend and is hated by Flash and his mates, too.

Heres the actual fight between Flash and Peter. He grabs his hand just like in the movie and breaks it (at least I assumed he broke it in the movie)

No, Peter grabbed Flash's arm, not his hand;

Heres the wrestling that is really alike
Lastly, here shows how he got his name, just like the movie. Its even from wrestling as well

What is so alike about the wrestling scene? He's wearing a makeshift masked costume while wrestling, which happened in the original comics, too.

The announcer labels him The Amazing Spider-Man. That's the only element unique to USM and has got to be coincidental since Spider-Man was in production when that issue came out.

I never said they did make any changes after that meeting. He did provide feedback but I am guessing none of it was taken. Like I said, he discussed dialogue with them, because they asked him to. He tried to hand off quips for Spider-Man to say, which could have easily been dubbed by Maguire into the film for his Spider-Man scenes. But things like Spidey making fun of Green Goblins outfit were disregarded because "We [Sony] spent a lot of money on that suit", according to Bendis, Sony's exact reply. The interview was either in one of the Trades, or the back of issue 100, the latter if memory serves me correctly. He also said they asked him and Stan to sit down with them after the screening, and Stan swiftly declined (Most likely because he knew how the discussion would go). It was more than just getting feedback, even if they didn't use any of his suggestions.

Then why did you bring this up if you concede nothing Bendis said about the movie was put into the movie?

People have listed more than a few connections that could be made between the Ultimate origin and the first Raimi movie. Coincidental or not, you can't say those observations are inaccurate.

I just have with blake c's list. The only one that is in any way similar is the wrestling announcer calling him Spider-Man. That is coincidence because the movie was already filming when that issue was released.

He also was a part of the same accident that turned Norman Osborn into the Green Goblin and as a result knew that his father was a monster from the very beginning, which is most definitely NOT his main character arc in the Raimi films.

Excellent observation.

Also, the wrestling thing is done differently as well. In the film SM1, the promoter is pissed off that Peter beat his star wrestler and screws him over with regards to his payout which leads to Ben's death. In USM, both the promoter and the wrestlers are impressed and Peter is given a job for awhile as a professional wrestler where he lets the fame go to his head.

Exactly. The two scenes are apples and oranges.

 

[blake c]

@Kahran Ohhhh see, I am legitimately rereading through these comics right now. I had just got to the point where Peter gets home and theres ambulances and stuff outside his house. Its been years since I have read these, I still couldn't help notice similarities though, especially with TASM

 

[blake c]

@Joker still, even if there are minor differences, there is no denying there are some similarities that aren't hard to see. There might not of been a food fight, but there was still food flying around. Just like he didn't exactly break his hand in the movie but he messed up his arm. The wrestling scene where hes named Spider-man though is almost spot on though besides wanting to be called The Human Spider in the movie instead of The Spider.I really think inspiration was took. Another thing with the wrestling scene, in the Ultimate comics, I'm pretty sure he did for Mary Jane, to impress her even if she didn't know it was him. Now in the movie he wrestled to get money to get a car to impress her. I'm just curious, do you not like the Ultimate comics orr whats your opinion on them?

 

[Oscorp]

Guys, I'm a Spider-Man fan and all but...get a life :/