Plot ideas based on SPOILERS (general discussion)

[elizah72]

ericadawn16 said:

Not (necessarily) in the eyes of the Midgardians.

if he dies in the process of Ragnarok then they wouldn't consider him "redeemed" either. They'd not even know about it probably. But really it's the movie going audience's opinions on all of that, that will be sought here, not the Midgardians, or even the Asgardians and Thor, since the movie goers are going to have a more complete picture of what has happened and what that character has been through and continues to deal with.

Yes, yes, yes!! I'd like to see it weigh on him. Then he's really growing up.

and I think that speech actually is an indication that deep down some of that stuff is weighing on him, despite the things that he does in Avengers...

"The Fangirl Apocalypse"

Or more like "Loki: The Fangirl Apocalypse" LOL... I'd go see that movie. t:

That's not the role the Thor clone played in the Civil War story arc. But since I said they would have to cover a lot of ground to get set up to do Civil War, maybe it fits into the MCU better to have a Thor clone show up as muscle for the MoE's (and they still need a better team name )

If they do that, then Bruce also will have conducted himself unethically (as he should very well know), since the research would have been conducted without Thor's informed consent.

Yes but as we have talked about, they want to tell some new stories and are probably not going to follow old stories word for word. So yes, I could see the Thor clone be part of the MOE muscle. And yes they do need a better name. LOL
And yes Bruce would have conducted himself unethically using Thor's dna without permission, but he's not a perfect man, and like I said if he thinks he's using it for a cure both for him and for Sterns and maybe for Blonsky too, then that really gives him reason enough to do it... and then Sterns takes advantage of the situation. Makes a lot more sense, much more than having Bruce and Tony and/Hank just make a Thor clone out of the blue and without Thor's permission.

Hey: boobies are a powerful force in the universe.

Yes indeed. But if they provided the power of better acting then Pamela Anderson would have an Oscar by now.

Several responses:
4. To turn your logic on its head, if she gets possessed early on and stays villainous (or at least malevolent), that too is static and therefore boring and uninteresting. So that implies that she can't stay that way

I'm not thinking she will early on though, per spoilers and other quotes, they will get time to get to know each other. The possession, if it happens, I suspect, will take place very late in the game and could stay in place through A2 at least if not Thor 3 where it is either resolved and she is returned to being Jane, or she dies. So you do get change and evolution of the character, relationship, and the storyline that way.

People described the first half of the plot of "The Avengers" as "getting the band together". SO it would seem a lot of TA2 is also "getting the band together", it's just the other band they are talking about.

yeah, and that would totally make sense for a second Avengers film to do something like that.

 

[American Maid]

And yes Bruce would have conducted himself unethically using Thor's dna without permission, but he's not a perfect man, and like I said if he thinks he's using it for a cure both for him and for Sterns and maybe for Blonsky too, then that really gives him reason enough to do it... and then Sterns takes advantage of the situation. Makes a lot more sense, much more than having Bruce and Tony and/Hank just make a Thor clone out of the blue and without Thor's permission.

I agree that the former is more logical than the latter.

But to be serious for a moment, the former is not just a case of "nobody's perfect". It's a breach of ethics, especially since there can be no foreseeable benefit to Thor. And this sort of thing actually has happened in the real world (using someone's cells for research to benefit others without that person's informed consent), so it's not just far-fetched comic book fiction.

I haven't yet seen The Incredible Hulk, but from what I've seen of Banner's character in The Avengers, it also seems out of character for him to participate in such research.


<Jane being possessed>

I'm not thinking she will early on though, per spoilers and other quotes, they will get time to get to know each other. The possession, if it happens, I suspect, will take place very late in the game and could stay in place through A2 at least if not Thor 3 where it is either resolved and she is returned to being Jane, or she dies. So you do get change and evolution of the character, relationship, and the storyline that way.

Hmmm, I don't want to derail this discussion, but I would be interested in your elaborating on why you think that (what spoilers and quotes), and when in the story you think it would happen. I lean toward taking Lawden's comments at face value and think it's logical that all his spoilers concern events early in the film. So I think the possession comes after Jane visits court in the Asgardian garb, perhaps (likely?) in the same attack that brings about Frigga's demise. So not right at the beginning, but early.

 

[elizah72]

I haven't yet seen The Incredible Hulk, but from what I've seen of Banner's character in The Avengers, it also seems out of character for him to participate in such research.

I'd say if he was desperate enough to try to end his own life, then he could easily be desperate enough to violate some of his ethics for a possible cure.

<Jane being possessed>


Hmmm, I don't want to derail this discussion, but I would be interested in your elaborating on why you think that (what spoilers and quotes), and when in the story you think it would happen. I lean toward taking Lawden's comments at face value and think it's logical that all his spoilers concern events early in the film. So I think the possession comes after Jane visits court in the Asgardian garb, perhaps (likely?) in the same attack that brings about Frigga's demise. So not right at the beginning, but early.

If you're talking about the beginning of the summary I sent you before. That's just one possible way for it to go, and honestly my thoughts are continually evolving about that and the film as a whole. I think you have been right in past, they need time to get to know each other. That's the only way to answer those questions if they are in love or not, as Feige has stated will be dealt with, and that cant really be done properly if she's possessed for most of the film. And her possession does not have appropriate impact if they are not convincingly in love, and up until now I dont think they are.

I think Lawden may have certain things right, but may also be connecting the dots incorrectly on a few things, just as we are apt to do, such as what he's calling the "dark world" for one, because he hasnt' seen a full script or even the whole movie being filmed for that matter. So some major things may be right, Loki and Thor work together, Frigga dies, Jane at some point is possessed, but others may be him connecting the dots and possibly assuming things that aren't correct in order to do that. Some may be misinterpretation on our parts too, like with thinking that the "dark world" of Asgard and Loki and Thor's journey to get reinforcements might mean Valhalla. I'm not thinking that at all now, I think that was a wrong assumption started by Screeenrant.com's assumptions. I also think what he says about Thor making a truce with Loki, was sort of strange phrasing if only referring to two brothers... and might actually mean that Thor needs Loki to make a truce with the other army and get reinforcements against the Dark Elves that way. And that's just another way to interpret what he says, without calling him an outright liar about anything.

 

[American Maid]

I'd say if he was desperate enough to try to end his own life, then he could easily be desperate enough to violate some of his ethics for a possible cure.

Depends on his character. The one is harm to self; the other is harm to others. He may prefer to harm himself over others. But I'll be on more solid ground to speculate about his character once I've seen TIH.

If you're talking about the beginning of the summary I sent you before. That's just one possible way for it to go, and honestly my thoughts are continually evolving about that and the film as a whole. I think you have been right in past, they need time to get to know each other. That's the only way to answer those questions if they are in love or not, as Feige has stated will be dealt with, and that cant really be done properly if she's possessed for most of the film. And her possession does not have appropriate impact if they are not convincingly in love, and up until now I dont think they are.

And Feige, Payne, and (so I've heard) Branagh are with you on that. (I am too, but my opinion carries less weight! lol)

Lawden's comments made it sound like the possession occurs more or less around the time Thor strikes his bargain with Loki, before they go on the journey. That implies early in the film. But you raise a good point that likely Jane and Thor will not have finished their know/like/love conversation by then (I had supposed it would take until the end of Act 2, maybe even Act 3). But you raise a good point--it's hard to continue this conversation if there's this malevolent spirit there. So how does that fit together? Your solution is that the possession occurs maybe in Act 3.

I think Lawden may have certain things right, but may also be connecting the dots incorrectly on a few things, just as we are apt to do, such as what he's calling the "dark world" for one, because he hasnt' seen a full script or even the whole movie being filmed for that matter. So some major things may be right, Loki and Thor work together, Frigga dies, Jane at some point is possessed, but others may be him connecting the dots and possibly assuming things that aren't correct in order to do that.

It's surprising to think that Lawden would give us a spoiler from so late in the film, though. But I'll mull on it some more (hmmm)

I also think what he says about Thor making a truce with Loki, was sort of strange phrasing if only referring to two brothers... and might actually mean that Thor needs Loki to make a truce with the other army and get reinforcements against the Dark Elves that way.

Well, if Loki is holding a lot of anger toward Thor, maybe it's at a level where you could call them working together a "truce".

 

[elizah72]

Depends on his character. The one is harm to self; the other is harm to others. He may prefer to harm himself over others. But I'll be on more solid ground to speculate about his character once I've seen TIH.

I don't think I would put what I have in mind into the category of harming others though. Between his own issues with the Hulk (even though he has at least some control of it now, fear of losing that control and harming others as the Hulk), combined with being able to cure Blonsky as well, who is a danger to society, and if on top of that Stern his old friend comes to him, severely deformed because of him and seemingly desperate for a cure... that most certainly is an angle that could be used to get him to use Thor's DNA, if it seemed like a cure might come of it. Perhaps they start out with just replicating some cells to work with and then Stern/Leader takes it further unexpectedly.

Lawden's comments made it sound like the possession occurs more or less around the time Thor strikes his bargain with Loki, before they go on the journey. That implies early in the film. But you raise a good point that likely Jane and Thor will not have finished their know/like/love conversation by then (I had supposed it would take until the end of Act 2, maybe even Act 3). But you raise a good point--it's hard to continue this conversation if there's this malevolent spirit there. So how does that fit together? Your solution is that the possession occurs maybe in Act 3.

The other issue with it early on, as we've discussed in PM, is that if she's possessed early on, and they sleep together, that's sort of like having a 3 way with the malevolent spirit... and male or female, that's creepy. Could they do that, maybe, but I don't think they would. However I am sort of expecting some Jane-Thor nookie to take place. Lawden likely does not have a whole bigger picture and the exact the order of things, some if it may be him misinterpreting what he's been told, and some maybe us misinterpreting him, sort of like the game telephone.

Well, if Loki is holding a lot of anger toward Thor, maybe it's at a level where you could call them working together a "truce".

but it's really a 1 way truce, since Thor never really wanted to fight his brother in the first place. so again, strange phrasing, and usually you think of a truce between two warring armies or countries, not two brothers. but it's just an alternate idea.

 

[jaqua99]

This is where I think you are thinking to hard elizah. I think it's just for words, or off the the top of the head. By truce with loki, I am sure all it literally means is, despite all that has happen thor and loki agree to work together

 

[American Maid]

I don't think I would put what I have in mind into the category of harming others though. Between his own issues with the Hulk (even though he has at least some control of it now, fear of losing that control and harming others as the Hulk), combined with being able to cure Blonsky as well, who is a danger to society, and if on top of that Stern his old friend comes to him, severely deformed because of him and seemingly desperate for a cure... that most certainly is an angle that could be used to get him to use Thor's DNA, if it seemed like a cure might come of it. Perhaps they start out with just replicating some cells to work with and then Stern/Leader takes it further unexpectedly.

Yeah, it could well be that that is how it would start. My point is that even working with the cells without Thor's informed consent is unethical. (And that kind of thing has been done in the real world.) It's not for the researchers to decide whether the potential benefits trump whether to even ask Thor whether he wants his cells used in that way. They don't have the right to make that decision.

But who knows whether they will even go in this direction with the plot in TA2 or subsequent?

<When does Jane become possessed?>

The other issue with it early on, as we've discussed in PM, is that if she's possessed early on, and they sleep together, that's sort of like having a 3 way with the malevolent spirit... and male or female, that's creepy. Could they do that, maybe, but I don't think they would. However I am sort of expecting some Jane-Thor nookie to take place. Lawden likely does not have a whole bigger picture and the exact the order of things, some if it may be him misinterpreting what he's been told, and some maybe us misinterpreting him, sort of like the game telephone.

All true. Now, it could be that they sleep together fairly early in the film, before the possession. Thor1 left off with them certainly attracted to one another (if Thor hadn't smashed the Bifrost, this would be 2-year-old news), so if they get past the "unanswered questions" from The Avengers, that might be plausible. (It could also be at the end of the film, if Jane is freed from the malevolent spirit. They may not have a moment's peace before then )

but it's really a 1 way truce, since Thor never really wanted to fight his brother in the first place. so again, strange phrasing, and usually you think of a truce between two warring armies or countries, not two brothers. but it's just an alternate idea.

It could be that Thor is finally ticked off at his brother, in which case they're both angry with each other.

Jon said:

despite all that has happen thor and loki agree to work together

Yeah, that's my take on it.

 

[elizah72]

This is where I think you are thinking to hard elizah. I think it's just for words, or off the the top of the head. By truce with loki, I am sure all it literally means is, despite all that has happen thor and loki agree to work together

I guess I'd rather think too much than not enough. Also probably partially my former fan fiction writer's brain kicking in trying to come up with reasons for everything.

<When does Jane become possessed?>

All true. Now, it could be that they sleep together fairly early in the film, before the possession. Thor1 left off with them certainly attracted to one another (if Thor hadn't smashed the Bifrost, this would be 2-year-old news), so if they get past the "unanswered questions" from The Avengers, that might be plausible. (It could also be at the end of the film, if Jane is freed from the malevolent spirit. They may not have a moment's peace before then )

Who knows. maybe they won't consummate the relationship and I don't know that it looks too good for her to be like, oh, you're back? You didn't call me for 2 years but that's okay. *jumps Thor's bones* so, yeah, I think they need some time to get over that part of it and get to know each other first.

It could be that Thor is finally ticked off at his brother, in which case they're both angry with each other.

could be but I'd still say that Loki is more "at war" with Thor than Thor is with Loki.

 

[American Maid]

Who knows. maybe [Thor and Jane] won't consummate the relationship

True. Most of the Marvel films have been low key about that aspect.

and I don't know that it looks too good for her to be like, oh, your back? You didn't call me for 2 years but that's okay. *jumps Thor's bones* so, yeah, I think they need some time to get over that part of it and get to know each other first.

hahahah Fair enough! (Of course, he *is* pretty cut. At least for a crazy homeless guy. . .)

Well, that evidence favors either a) not in this movie or b) toward the end of this movie. (so not in the movie is more likely)

In a similar vein, it seems like kind of a stretch for her to let Thor take her to Asgard. ("I interacted with you for 36 hours 2 years ago so sure, now I'll just hang on and let you open a portal. I'll tell my employer I don't know when I'll be back.") Even if it's her own portal, that's a big leap to just go through and see what happens.

Of course, if they spend the time needed to get over that part of it, it would make the movie slow. So it's not clear how the pacing of all that will work.

 

[jaqua99]

I guess I'd rather think too much than not enough. Also probably partially my former fan fiction writer's brain kicking in trying to come up with reasons for everything.

this explains A LOT lol :P. A wee bit too much for the movies. as I wouldn't say fan fiction can be directly applied to what we have going on in the MCU. Speculating is fun. Avengers was big in scale, but nothing we have seen has been as big in terms of scale as what we are starting to suggest. Fiege has saaid this movie will be smaller in scale than the avengers, but the next biggest one. I think you should take your default fan fiction thoughts for this movie, and compress them down, to a movie verse based on what we have seen, and then we will be pretty close :P

fan fiction is fun though.

Un related, a lot of times during work, I basically watch entire marvel movies in my head, ones I haven't seen, ones that don't exist yet lol makes the day go by quicker

Who knows. maybe they won't consummate the relationship and I don't know that it looks too good for her to be like, oh, you're back? You didn't call me for 2 years but that's okay. *jumps Thor's bones* so, yeah, I think they need some time to get over that part of it and get to know each other first.

HELL NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

get jane foster/natalie portman's ass out of this thread lol

in all seriousness though, that irritates me, the fact that she may be pissy about him not seeing her in the avengers..

like, what the hell jane, who are you to speak of this?

"I was saving the world, your world, and was occupied, not to mention that this threat was my own brother. after the battle, I needed to get him home, as he is to be punished. SO EXCUSE ME..if I don't have time to see you. I am Thor, god of thunder, air to the throne, my life does not revolve entirely around you, as you are expecting it too miss foster. for that, I will smite you down violently, if you do not leave me alone. I suggest you do so. I prefer the godly woman of Lady Sif anyway. So jane, take your attitude, and shove it."

this is exactly how I expect it to happen. Line for line.

except, I hope she doesn't leave him alone, that way, he can smite her down.

ughhhh

could be but I'd still say that Loki is more "at war" with Thor than Thor is with Loki.

exactly, which could explain the truce. You are thinking to hard elizah lol think what it said, thor has to negotiate a truce, it was right? I highly doubt there was misinterpretation on the guys part, I am sure all it is, is simply, despite all that has happened, and loki's hostility towards thor, thor convinces him to help him

 

[American Maid]

Un related, a lot of times during work, I basically watch entire marvel movies in my head, ones I haven't seen, ones that don't exist yet lol makes the day go by quicker

I can see that. Fun!

get jane foster/natalie portman's ass out of this thread lol

Jane Foster is a significant part of the Thor2 story (Feige's exact words are "heart of the story"). So she has every right to be in this thread. Now, I try not to talk bring up Jane out of consideration of people's negative feelings--I'm trying not to be too "in the face" about her. (And I try hard to understand where people are coming from if they phrase their dissatisfaction in terms of specific constructive criticism.) But if she comes up naturally in discussion, I don't feel at all badly about *replying*.

in all seriousness though, that irritates me, the fact that she may be pissy about him not seeing her in the avengers..

Well, we light-heartedly joked around about that (as did Hemsworth I might add). A more substantive consideration is that it is realistic to suppose that they can't pick up *exactly* where they were when he left for Asgard. The reasons are what Hemsworth called the "unanswered questions". It would appear that he doesn't have the interest in her that he seemed to suggest back in the desert. Jane would be foolish not to pay attention to that. So their relationship necessarily has changed in their two year separation. That's just a logical outcome from human nature. So the movie has to start where they are, not certain if there is as much potential as they thought, not certain they could realistically expect to be able to see each other at regular intervals, etc. Then they have to get back to where they were at the end of Thor1. Then they can move forward on the know/like/love questions that Feige mentioned. (assuming that they are able to get back to where they were at the end of Thor1. I personally think it's likely, but I'll readily admit it's not guaranteed. There are, after all, a lot of people who want to see Thor with Sif.)

I will smite you down violently, if you do not leave me alone.

C'mon, that's not in Thor's character and I'm sure you know it. He would be more likely to say something like, "I thought I would get back within 3 days. I'm sorry I couldn't fulfill my promise. It would appear that these circumstances will not change in the foreseeable future. But this is how my life is. Perhaps this means it is not our fate to be together."

 

[elizah72]

this explains A LOT lol :P. A wee bit too much for the movies. as I wouldn't say fan fiction can be directly applied to what we have going on in the MCU. Speculating is fun. Avengers was big in scale, but nothing we have seen has been as big in terms of scale as what we are starting to suggest. Fiege has saaid this movie will be smaller in scale than the avengers, but the next biggest one. I think you should take your default fan fiction thoughts for this movie, and compress them down, to a movie verse based on what we have seen, and then we will be pretty close :P

but writing is writing, and fan fiction, if done right is connecting the dots and stuff that is already in canon to make a story that fits in the movieverse or whatever (I am NOT a fan of AU, in any fandom). And i think I've been doing that, (compressing down the fanfiction ideas so it will work in the movie). You can't think too out there, too big, but you can't think too small either. The people who wrote it are being paid for it, so one assumes they are probably better writers than little old me who has not. So they will think about character motivations and how to get from A to B to Z...

Un related, a lot of times during work, I basically watch entire marvel movies in my head, ones I haven't seen, ones that don't exist yet lol makes the day go by quicker

That is a good way to get through a boring day at work. LOL... it can be awkward if you burst out laughing at something funny you thought could happen or get a funny smirk on your face when you think of a movie love scene though...

HELL NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

get jane foster/natalie portman's ass out of this thread lol

As AM said, she's a legit part of the film, she will be in the film, and will be getting to know Thor so it is completely appropriate to talk about her there. In fact it would be foolish not to if the goal is to try and figure out what's going on in the film.

not a fan of Jane either but she's there and I have to deal with it (though when i watch in theaters I may use my bathroom break during her scenes )

Well, we light-heartedly joked around about that (as did Hemsworth I might add). A more substantive consideration is that it is realistic to suppose that they can't pick up *exactly* where they were when he left for Asgard. The reasons are what Hemsworth called the "unanswered questions". It would appear that he doesn't have the interest in her that he seemed to suggest back in the desert. Jane would be foolish not to pay attention to that.

and might I point out Loki's line... "What are you doing? if you destroy the bridge you'll never see her again!"... which is an indication that Loki certainly thinks that if Thor really loved her he'd have let the Frost Giants die, and let him rule, and go back to Midgard and live with her. Ah... who knew Loki was a (albeit mixed up) romantic? LOL

Okay so what do you suppose Jane's opinion of Loki will be? Will she encourage them to reconcile or will she be like screw that guy, he tried to take over my planet? I would think that Selvig would have said something about his experience with Loki. What do you suppose Selvig's opinion will be? he seemed to like Loki while he was under his control anyway, Loki kinda seemed to like him too. We need a Selvig, Loki, Thor bar scene where they all get drunk and hash things out. LOL (fan fiction brain talking there! but it would be fun!)

I personally think it's likely, but I'll readily admit it's not guaranteed. There are, after all, a lot of people who want to see Thor with Sif.)

Including Jamie Alexander. And it's much more exciting moving forward to have Sif and Thor going on adventures together, defending the 9 realms, than to have Jane, who only knows science, doesnt know how to fight, probably couldnt really defend herself too well in most situations, continue to just hang out in Asgard as Thor's queen, with not much more use for her than Frigga seems to have.... or worse have her stay on Midgard doing sciencey stuff while Thor makes her poptarts and breaks her mugs. I just dont see the relationship being permanent.

C'mon, that's not in Thor's character and I'm sure you know it. He would be more likely to say something like, "I thought I would get back within 3 days. I'm sorry I couldn't fulfill my promise. It would appear that these circumstances will not change in the foreseeable future. But this is how my life is. Perhaps this means it is not our fate to be together."

Perhaps it means his fate is to be with his loyal and kickass Lady Sif.

 

[jaqua99]

I can see that. Fun!



Jane Foster is a significant part of the Thor2 story (Feige's exact words are "heart of the story"). So she has every right to be in this thread. Now, I try not to talk bring up Jane out of consideration of people's negative feelings--I'm trying not to be too "in the face" about her. (And I try hard to understand where people are coming from if they phrase their dissatisfaction in terms of specific constructive criticism.) But if she comes up naturally in discussion, I don't feel at all badly about *replying*.



Well, we light-heartedly joked around about that (as did Hemsworth I might add). A more substantive consideration is that it is realistic to suppose that they can't pick up *exactly* where they were when he left for Asgard. The reasons are what Hemsworth called the "unanswered questions". It would appear that he doesn't have the interest in her that he seemed to suggest back in the desert. Jane would be foolish not to pay attention to that. So their relationship necessarily has changed in their two year separation. That's just a logical outcome from human nature. So the movie has to start where they are, not certain if there is as much potential as they thought, not certain they could realistically expect to be able to see each other at regular intervals, etc. Then they have to get back to where they were at the end of Thor1. Then they can move forward on the know/like/love questions that Feige mentioned. (assuming that they are able to get back to where they were at the end of Thor1. I personally think it's likely, but I'll readily admit it's not guaranteed. There are, after all, a lot of people who want to see Thor with Sif.)



C'mon, that's not in Thor's character and I'm sure you know it. He would be more likely to say something like, "I thought I would get back within 3 days. I'm sorry I couldn't fulfill my promise. It would appear that these circumstances will not change in the foreseeable future. But this is how my life is. Perhaps this means it is not our fate to be together."

lol come on, you can't tell I was kidding about jane foster? yeah, I didn't like her character, and I really am not a fan of portman, but everything else I said was just a little fun lol.. Obviously thor isn't going to threaten to smite her down hahahahahahahaha

 

[jaqua99]

but writing is writing, and fan fiction, if done right is connecting the dots and stuff that is already in canon to make a story that fits in the movieverse or whatever (I am NOT a fan of AU, in any fandom). And i think I've been doing that, (compressing down the fanfiction ideas so it will work in the movie). You can't think too out there, too big, but you can't think too small either. The people who wrote it are being paid for it, so one assumes they are probably better writers than little old me who has not. So they will think about character motivations and how to get from A to B to Z...



That is a good way to get through a boring day at work. LOL... it can be awkward if you burst out laughing at something funny you thought could happen or get a funny smirk on your face when you think of a movie love scene though...



As AM said, she's a legit part of the film, she will be in the film, and will be getting to know Thor so it is completely appropriate to talk about her there. In fact it would be foolish not to if the goal is to try and figure out what's going on in the film.

not a fan of Jane either but she's there and I have to deal with it (though when i watch in theaters I may use my bathroom break during her scenes )



and might I point out Loki's line... "What are you doing? if you destroy the bridge you'll never see her again!"... which is an indication that Loki certainly thinks that if Thor really loved her he'd have let the Frost Giants die, and let him rule, and go back to Midgard and live with her. Ah... who knew Loki was a (albeit mixed up) romantic? LOL

Okay so what do you suppose Jane's opinion of Loki will be? Will she encourage them to reconcile or will she be like screw that guy, he tried to take over my planet? I would think that Selvig would have said something about his experience with Loki. What do you suppose Selvig's opinion will be? he seemed to like Loki while he was under his control anyway, Loki kinda seemed to like him too. We need a Selvig, Loki, Thor bar scene where they all get drunk and hash things out. LOL (fan fiction brain talking there! but it would be fun!)



Including Jamie Alexander. And it's much more exciting moving forward to have Sif and Thor going on adventures together, defending the 9 realms, than to have Jane, who only knows science, doesnt know how to fight, probably couldnt really defend herself too well in most situations, continue to just hang out in Asgard as Thor's queen, with not much more use for her than Frigga seems to have.... or worse have her stay on Midgard doing sciencey stuff while Thor makes her poptarts and breaks her mugs. I just dont see the relationship being permanent.



Perhaps it means his fate is to be with his loyal and kickass Lady Sif.

I dont see the relationship being permanant either. I am not sure though. It may be due to Natalie's lack of interest in this franchihse. I would much rather see him with sif

 

[elizah72]

lol come on, you can't tell I was kidding about jane foster? yeah, I didn't like her character, and I really am not a fan of portman, but everything else I said was just a little fun lol.. Obviously thor isn't going to threaten to smite her down hahahahahahahaha

LOL... suuuuuuureee you werent' being serious.... and I'm not being . serious when I say if either her or Thor say "Deal?" at any point in Thor 2 I may just involuntarily punch the person next to me in the face. Most. Lame. Annoying. Line. Ever. Seriously you don't want to be sitting next to me in the theater if that happens. I cringe every time I hear it on Thor 1.

Back to Selvig, at the end of Thor 1 actually, it seems that Loki has at least some control over him, so he's met Jane and probably Darcy too through Selvig. Which could be interesting if that comes up. Also, I wonder if he had more control over Selvig than first thought. For one at the beginning of Avengers it always struck me odd how cranky Selvig is, and that line about Hawkeye, sort of snide and annoyed with his presence. I wonder if that was actually the Loki influence sort of saying "Hawkeye? That p****? He's up in his nest per usual.... That jerk is worse than Heimdall, always keeping an eye on things. I can't get away with anything with him around!"

 

[jaqua99]

LOL... suuuuuuureee you werent' being serious.... and I'm not being . serious when I say if either her or Thor say "Deal?" at any point in Thor 2 I may just involuntarily punch the person next to me in the face. Most. Lame. Annoying. Line. Ever. Seriously you don't want to be sitting next to me in the theater if that happens. I cringe every time I hear it on Thor 1.

Back to Selvig, at the end of Thor 1 actually, it seems that Loki has at least some control over him, so he's met Jane and probably Darcy too through Selvig. Which could be interesting if that comes up. Also, I wonder if he had more control over Selvig than first thought. For one at the beginning of Avengers it always struck me odd how cranky Selvig is, and that line about Hawkeye, sort of snide and annoyed with his presence. I wonder if that was actually the Loki influence sort of saying "Hawkeye? That p****? He's up in his nest per usual.... That jerk is worse than Heimdall, always keeping an eye on things. I can't get away with anything with him around!"

I know you arent being serious, I was just messing with you guys lol. but yeah, I don't like that line either. I felt portman was very...i dont know the word for it. she was actiing like a child in that movie sort of. like a teenageer.

going back to loki and selvig, see, that seen made it seem that loki had the ability to mind control people. The whole "well I guess that's worth a look" right?

then why did he need the sceptor to do it?

unless, maybe in thor, selvig was "posessed" by loki?

 

[American Maid]

but writing is writing, and fan fiction, if done right is connecting the dots and stuff that is already in canon to make a story that fits in the movieverse or whatever (I am NOT a fan of AU, in any fandom). And i think I've been doing that, (compressing down the fanfiction ideas so it will work in the movie). You can't think too out there, too big, but you can't think too small either. The people who wrote it are being paid for it, so one assumes they are probably better writers than little old me who has not. So they will think about character motivations and how to get from A to B to Z...

And what you are seeing here is a little bit of the work in-process. Listening to the various interviews with writers that Elizah posted (and what I've read about the writing process previously), it sounds like typically there are a lot of ideas that get generated, more than appear in the final product. A lot of them get discarded. So at the intermediate step, the story looks "too big".

it can be awkward if you burst out laughing at something funny you thought could happen or get a funny smirk on your face when you think of a movie love scene though...

Yeah. . .I've had that problem lol!

not a fan of Jane either but she's there and I have to deal with it (though when i watch in theaters I may use my bathroom break during her scenes )

Victor Hugo was paid by the word, so he tended to have these *enormous* digressions in his books. For example, in _Les Miserables_, he has this huge chapter on the Battle of Waterloo. A part of me is annoyed to have to plow through this chapter on Waterloo. But I also know I can't skip it, because somewhere among all the irrelevant details is a hook or two that is germane to the story. So I have to read it.

Similarly, I caution you that if you skip the Jane scenes, you might miss something that turns out to be relevant later in the film.

and might I point out Loki's line... "What are you doing? if you destroy the bridge you'll never see her again!"... which is an indication that Loki certainly thinks that if Thor really loved her he'd have let the Frost Giants die, and let him rule, and go back to Midgard and live with her. Ah... who knew Loki was a (albeit mixed up) romantic? LOL

Ha--maybe! It could also be that he's trying to push Thor's buttons, as brothers are wont to do.

Okay so what do you suppose Jane's opinion of Loki will be? Will she encourage them to reconcile or will she be like screw that guy, he tried to take over my planet? I would think that Selvig would have said something about his experience with Loki.

Jane certainly would know that Thor has a brother who sent the Destroyer, which kills Thor when he is a mortal. (In that scene, in the on-line script, Thor never mentions Loki's name.)

While Thor and Selvig are out drinking, Jane was reading the book on Norse mythology. Likely she got to the page on Loki, so she would know about mythic Loki.

Selvig is working with Jane in Thor2, so it is logical to suppose that Selvig would have filled her in (and maybe they will even show this scene) on how he was possessed by Loki (mentioning him by name) and directed to aid him in launching the invasion of Earth. We can see when he is freed at the end of The Avengers that he is quite troubled by this experience.

Selvig is described as Jane's mentor, so they likely would have a relationship where they would talk about a lot of things. And Jane is protective of the people she cares about. So from all this evidence, I think that she would be hostile and fearful of Loki. (Note that Jane would be unaware of the specific threat to her that Loki expressed to Thor, nor would she know about the two attempts Loki made on Thor's life in TA, since Selvig was not witness to either of them I don't believe (maybe the knife--can't recall).)

Now, there's a whole conversation that Thor and Jane have on the rooftop of Smith Motors, not shown in the movie, that takes place between Jane saying, "Tell me more," and Thor saying, "Thank you, Jane." It's possible that he told her about who is in his family (and that she relates who is in hers), among other topics. If that's the case, his love for his brother likely would have come through in his talking about him (and of course he would mention Loki's name).

If Jane knows about that, then her response to Loki could be considerably more complicated. She cares about Thor and thus would tend to want to be protective of him. So on the one hand, she might want to argue that Thor needs to put some emotional distance between himself and Loki. On the other hand, if she thinks it would hurt him deeply to lose his brother, maybe she would want to set her own feelings aside to try to help Thor to find a way to help his brother.

it's much more exciting moving forward to have Sif and Thor going on adventures together, defending the 9 realms, than to have (a) Jane, who only knows science, doesnt know how to fight, probably couldnt really defend herself too well in most situations, continue to just hang out in Asgard as Thor's queen, (b) with not much more use for her than Frigga seems to have.... or worse (c) have her stay on Midgard doing sciencey stuff while Thor makes her poptarts and breaks her mugs. I just dont see the relationship being permanent.

(I inserted letters as reference marks to avoid having to split the statements apart as separate QUOTE's)

Regarding (a), that strikes me as possibly having some merit, but I have been holding that thought on the back burner until I have a chance to read some of the books (at least the Simonson run and the JMS run). I intend to return to it and see how I think once I have that context. (I will note, though, that Pepper and any of a number of other superhero girlfriends only know their field, don't know how to fight, and spend most of the time hanging out wherever while the hero is saving whatever needs saving. So it's a limited role, but not unprecedented)
(b) That's awfully unfair to Frigga, don't you think? When we discussed this a few months ago, you lamented how that kind of role is often undervalued in society
(c) I suspect that if they are living on Midgard, adventures will tend to find Thor, enough to keep him occupied (besides, he will eat all the pop-tarts!)

Perhaps it means his fate is to be with his loyal and kickass Lady Sif.

If that's indeed what he says

 

[American Maid]

lol come on, you can't tell I was kidding about jane foster? yeah, I didn't like her character, and I really am not a fan of portman, but everything else I said was just a little fun lol.. Obviously thor isn't going to threaten to smite her down hahahahahahahaha

Well, I know you really (I mean really, intensely) dislike both Portman and Foster, and I had supposed that got channeled into the little quote you wrote. So I confess, I took you seriously.

But now that you mention it, I can see the hyperbole

 

[jaqua99]

Well, I know you really (I mean really, intensely) dislike both Portman and Foster, and I had supposed that got channeled into the little quote you wrote. So I confess, I took you seriously.

But now that you mention it, I can see the hyperbole

I have an odd sense of humor, if it seems ridiculous, or angry, don't take it seriously, it's how I joke lol.

but don't get me wrong, I do hate portman and foster lol.

and the "I know you really (I mean really, intensely) dislike.." that made me laugh lol

 

[American Maid]

I felt portman was very...i dont know the word for it. she was actiing like a child in that movie sort of. like a teenageer.

Yes, she was embarrassingly giggly in the middle of the movie there . Even I cringed at that part.

I'm happy to report that I realized the other day that Jane likely is over the giggles. (Not just because she's had 2 years to think about whether she read too much into her 36 hours with this guy.) She's actually not giggly from the rooftop scene in Thor1 through the end of the picture. So I think we will be spared that in Thor2.

Back to Selvig, at the end of Thor 1 actually, it seems that Loki has at least some control over him, so he's met Jane and probably Darcy too through Selvig. Which could be interesting if that comes up. Also, I wonder if he had more control over Selvig than first thought. For one at the beginning of Avengers it always struck me odd how cranky Selvig is, and that line about Hawkeye, sort of snide and annoyed with his presence. I wonder if that was actually the Loki influence sort of saying "Hawkeye? That p****? He's up in his nest per usual.... That jerk is worse than Heimdall, always keeping an eye on things. I can't get away with anything with him around!"

He could be under stress, too. Pressure from Fury to get results, anxiety over what the cube is doing.

going back to loki and selvig, see, that seen made it seem that loki had the ability to mind control people. The whole "well I guess that's worth a look" right?

then why did he need the sceptor to do it?

unless, maybe in thor, selvig was "posessed" by loki?

I guess it would be more correct to say that he could influence people (not an out-and-out possession like I had said before), specifically Selvig, at the end of Thor1, as evidenced by the quote you (Jon) mention.

You raise a good point about the scepter. Maybe it allows Loki to exert more influence, to compel people to do things that would ordinarily be against their principles.

 

[American Maid]

I have an odd sense of humor, if it seems ridiculous, or angry, don't take it seriously, it's how I joke lol.

And I've certainly had a joke not come off right in this written forum. Thanks for the tip!

but don't get me wrong, I do hate portman and foster lol.

and the "I know you really (I mean really, intensely) dislike.." that made me laugh lol

hahahah Glad to provide levity

 

[elizah72]

I know you arent being serious, I was just messing with you guys lol. but yeah, I don't like that line either. I felt portman was very...i dont know the word for it. she was actiing like a child in that movie sort of. like a teenageer.

That is definitely the major crux of my problem with Jane. That was a fail on the part of the writers too, that they couldnt' have written her better. Not all Portman's fault.

going back to loki and selvig, see, that seen made it seem that loki had the ability to mind control people. The whole "well I guess that's worth a look" right?

then why did he need the sceptor to do it?

unless, maybe in thor, selvig was "posessed" by loki?

I would have said that Loki has semi control but not complete control as he did with the scepter, still I think that Hawkeye line and Selvig's grumpiness may have been the Loki influence coming through. Because I can't think of why Selvig would be grumpy about Hawkeye otherwise. I mean, at least he was staying out of his way.

Similarly, I caution you that if you skip the Jane scenes, you might miss something that turns out to be relevant later in the film.

possibly, true...

Jane certainly would know that Thor has a brother who sent the Destroyer, which kills Thor when he is a mortal. (In that scene, in the on-line script, Thor never mentions Loki's name.)

While Thor and Selvig are out drinking, Jane was reading the book on Norse mythology. Likely she got to the page on Loki, so she would know about mythic Loki.

Selvig is working with Jane in Thor2, so it is logical to suppose that Selvig would have filled her in (and maybe they will even show this scene) on how he was possessed by Loki (mentioning him by name) and directed to aid him in launching the invasion of Earth. We can see when he is freed at the end of The Avengers that he is quite troubled by this experience.

Selvig is described as Jane's mentor, so they likely would have a relationship where they would talk about a lot of things. And Jane is protective of the people she cares about. So from all this evidence, I think that she would be hostile and fearful of Loki. (Note that Jane would be unaware of the specific threat to her that Loki expressed to Thor, nor would she know about the two attempts Loki made on Thor's life in TA, since Selvig was not witness to either of them I don't believe (maybe the knife--can't recall).

Now, there's a whole conversation that Thor and Jane have on the rooftop of Smith Motors, not shown in the movie, that takes place between Jane saying, "Tell me more," and Thor saying, "Thank you, Jane." It's possible that he told her about who is in his family (and that she relates who is in hers), among other topics. If that's the case, his love for his brother likely would have come through in his talking about him (and of course he would mention Loki's name).

If Jane knows about that, then her response to Loki could be considerably more complicated. She cares about Thor and thus would tend to want to be protective of him. So on the one hand, she might want to argue that Thor needs to put some emotional distance between himself and Loki. On the other hand, if she thinks it would hurt him deeply to lose his brother, maybe she would want to set her own feelings aside to try to help Thor to find a way to help his brother.

Which is why I think that aspect may be interesting, because it would make sense for her to be fearful or cautious of him, but also makes sense for her to feel for Thor and his desire to get the brother he loves back, so... that makes for some interesting conversations I think. (although Loki usually does make for interesting conversations ). I wonder if they'll say any more about what exactly those MCU Norse Myths do say about Thor, and in particular Loki. Hmmm...

b) That's awfully unfair to Frigga, don't you think? When we discussed this a few months ago, you lamented how that kind of role is often undervalued in society

and had they not cut all her best scenes from the first film that would have highlighted how important that role is, I wouldnt feel that way. but they just had her sitting by Odin's bedside and then attempt to defend him but be slapped aside pretty quickly. So the true value of Frigga's role as a wife and mother was not done justice there at all. Of course, Jane wouldnt even have been able to take down that first Frost Giant, so at least Frigga did that. But the scene where she is angry with Odin over Thor's banishment, and where she speaks more at length to Loki, and shows how she was truly a caring adoptive mother (even "You're a good son" and "You must know that...") were cut and shouldnt have been. Also the part giving him the throne until Odin returns, saying "make your father proud". That may have been a mistake by the way, but the fact that she trusted him with that should have an impact on him, and so was important to show both for her as a mother, and his character and motivations, and their relationship. The way it played out it makes it seem to some that he just jumped in there and took over without permission, and without his adopted mother's faith in him. So I thought that kinda sucked about all of the scenes that they cut of her.

 

[American Maid]

<Jane acting like a child/teenager>

That is definitely the major crux of my problem with Jane. That was a fail on the part of the writers too, that they couldnt' have written her better. Not all Portman's fault.

I think we'll all be relieved if they do better in Thor2. By-and-by I may start a conversation about it ("how can Jane be written better in Thor2?") in the Jane Foster thread.

I would have said that Loki has semi control but not complete control as he did with the scepter, still I think that Hawkeye line and Selvig's grumpiness may have been the Loki influence coming through. Because I can't think of why Selvig would be grumpy about Hawkeye otherwise. I mean, at least he was staying out of his way.

Ha! That's true! What more can a scientist want out of the security detail??

I said:

If Jane knows about [Thor's love for his brother], then her response to Loki could be considerably more complicated. She cares about Thor and thus would tend to want to be protective of him. So on the one hand, she might want to argue that Thor needs to put some emotional distance between himself and Loki. On the other hand, if she thinks it would hurt him deeply to lose his brother, maybe she would want to set her own feelings aside to try to help Thor to find a way to help his brother.

Which is why I think that aspect may be interesting, because it would make sense for her to be fearful or cautious of him,

and angry, after what he tried to do to Thor and what he did do to Erik. (Yet another person who has an opinion about what he did.)

but also makes sense for her to feel for Thor and his desire to get the brother he loves back, so... that makes for some interesting conversations I think. (although Loki usually does make for interesting conversations ).

Well, there are two possible angles. Jane serving as a sounding board for Thor about what to do about Loki, and Jane reaching out directly to Loki. I suppose the latter could wind up kind of like Loki's exchange with Black Widow, but less successful (since Black Widow has psychological/interrogation skills). So I think the former works better. But you are right; it could be a very interesting exchange.

I wonder if they'll say any more about what exactly those MCU Norse Myths do say about Thor, and in particular Loki. Hmmm...

My guess is that if they use that, it will be for comic relief.

<Frigga>

and had they not cut all her best scenes from the first film that would have highlighted how important that role is, I wouldnt feel that way. but they just had her sitting by Odin's bedside and then attempt to defend him but be slapped aside pretty quickly. So the true value of Frigga's role as a wife and mother was not done justice there at all. Of course, Jane wouldnt even have been able to take down that first Frost Giant, so at least Frigga did that.

Thinking about Jane's likely inability to wield a sword brings to mind the scene from the first Indiana Jones movie. A bad guy confronts Indy (also a university professor, note) and has this huge display of prowess with the whip. Indy's like, "Screw this" and just shoots the guy.

Edit: Sorry, it's actually a guy with a sword, not a whip. So even more relevant:
[YT]CccprKl_YcM[/YT]

[Apparently originally they were going to have this elaborate fight scene, but Harrison Ford had the flu and really was feeling like "screw this" and ad lib'ed the gunshot. The poor stunt guy had rehearsed all this stuff that never made it into the film.]

My point: Jane may be more adept at wielding Midgardian technology than a sword.

But the scene where she is angry with Odin over Thor's banishment, and where she speaks more at length to Loki, and shows how she was truly a caring adoptive mother (even "You're a good son" and "You must know that..." were cut and shouldnt have been), even giving him the throne until Odin returns, saying "make your father proud". That may have been a mistake by the way, but the fact that she trusted him with that should have an impact on him. The way it played out it makes it seem to some that he just jumped in there and took over without permission, and without his adopted mother's faith in him. So I thought that kinda sucked about all of the scenes that they cut of her.

I agree! Most times when scenes are cut it's because they slow down the film. I didn't feel that way about Frigga's scenes. (But then again, what do I know? lol)

What I was remarking on was your allusion to Jane possibly occupying a similar role: Queen of Asgard and mostly staying in the palace (and presumably playing an important role that may not get much screen time) as a negative (or at least boring) thing.

 

[elizah72]

<Jane acting like a child/teenager>
I think we'll all be relieved if they do better in Thor2. By-and-by I may start a conversation about it ("how can Jane be written better in Thor2?") in the Jane Foster thread.

I'm not sure you really want me to have in on that.

Well, there are two possible angles. Jane serving as a sounding board for Thor about what to do about Loki, and Jane reaching out directly to Loki. I suppose the latter could wind up kind of like Loki's exchange with Black Widow, but less successful (since Black Widow has psychological/interrogation skills). So I think the former works better. But you are right; it could be a very interesting exchange.

well it's a little different from BW. She was trying to sweet talk and manipulate him, and acting like she was above him when he knew perfectly well she'd done some horrible things... so that kinda pissed him off I think. Jane would be different, as anything she'd say would be much more sincere, and she's never set a hospital on fire, or been hired to kill people, so there's that one good thing about her. t: We don't know what exactly his attitude will be after Frigga dies either. He may be really hurting and much more open to talking civilly to another caring female than you might think at that point.

<Frigga>

[Apparently originally they were going to have this elaborate fight scene, but Harrison Ford had the flu and really was feeling like "screw this" and ad lib'ed the gunshot. The poor stunt guy had rehearsed all this stuff that never made it into the film.]

and yet one of the best scenes EVER.

I agree! Most times when scenes are cut it's because they slow down the film. I didn't feel that way about Frigga's scenes. (But then again, what do I know? lol)

What I was remarking on was your allusion to Jane possibly occupying a similar role: Queen of Asgard and mostly staying in the palace (and presumably playing an important role that may not get much screen time) as a negative (or at least boring) thing.

unfortunately, if they cut any scenes showing her worth in that capacity, then it IS boring and a negative. So I don't want to see her there perpetuating that.

one BIG problem is a happy marriage on screen is very often boring and extremely difficult to keep interesting. That's why the fairy tales always end with "and they lived happily ever after", and why when soap opera couples get together finally, they are only happy for about 5 minutes before something terrible happens, someone is murdered, or gets kidnapped or gets a terminal disease, OR they go off on a boat trip around the world together never to be seen again (if they are lucky). So that is the problem with Thor and Jane getting married, storywise it is boring unless they then kidnap her or cause some other danger to her to keep their relationship interesting and keep Jane in the story that way (which I know you don't like the idea of her being the damsel in distress). At least with Sif she can go on adventures with him, and fight beside him, and hopefully not be put into the "damsel in distress" situation much if ever, (and she could certainly get herself out of jams without necessarily needing Thor to come save her)

Now Frigga does have worth in that story and to that family, especially if they want us to believe that Thor and Loki will in Thor 2 decide to put their feelings aside and work together due to her death. But they cut her scenes with them showing their relationship in Thor 1, for whatever reason, so I hope to hell they make up for that in Thor 2 prior to her death because otherwise her death will not have appropriate impact on the story, and it will not really feel "real" that her sons react the way they do. (especially Loki)

 

[LokiDionysos]

Oh, Lord I hope not. For one I really really dont think that actress can pull that off. Could be wrong but I think she would be waayy too jokey/corny and not at all scary/creepy/a real threat. I think Natalie could pull off scary/creepy much better. I think the fanboys just want Darcy to be that because she's got really big boobs. Plus I think it's much more emotionally at stake for Thor if it's Jane actually that is taken over by Hela or Death or the Tesseract or whatever and is then a villain in A2, than if it were Darcy. he likes Darcy but it's not anywhere near the emotional impact for him. (Sorry AM, like I've said, these stories and relationships need conflict or they just get much too boring and uninteresting! ) Also, Darcy was put in there as a "common person"/moviegoer's opinion character, partially to help keep that world grounded, which I believe they want to continue to do. They lose that if they make Darcy Hela.

and I can't see Shield keeping the goddess of Hel in a cell on their own. if anyone imprisons her it would have to be Odin himself. The whole idea of a supervillain prison is very cheesy saturday morning cartoons to me, in any case. So really not crazy about that idea either. I can see one character reaching out to various villains imprisoned or on the loose in various places and bringing them together based on their in common hatred of various members of the Avengers, and becoming the leader that way.

The thing about this Hela would be that she's already been imprisoned by Odin. Trapped within the roots of the world tree and can't operate in any realm other than Hel. She's so far down there that she has to possess people to have any sort of presence in the other realms... She possesses Jane and Selvig in a way, before settling on Darcy because she's controllable. As Darcy progresses she looks more and more like the actress playing her in Hel in heavy makeup etc. This goes back to my theory about what Odin did to Surtur. Both are imprisoned in a sort of temporal vortex that keeps them at the base of Yggdrasil and trapped for all time...

At a point in Asgard's past Surtur and Hela tried to overthrow Odin and initiate Ragnarok. Surtur because that's what he does, Hela because she gets more powerful when she feeds on Asgardian souls and gnaws on the base of Yggdrasil with Nidhogg.

But for all intents and purposes Odin has already stopped Surtur once before, which is explained along with Malekith's past. Surtur is trapped. He needs to work with Malekith and Hela to free himself from Odin's spell/temporal vortex. Malekith intends to free Surtur, but he needs a little of Hela's help.

In Avengers when Selvig is talking about the cube he refers to it as female... he calls it a she. At first glance this isn't very important. But something working through the cube is almost self aware and tells Selvig and Hawkeye what they needed to get Loki far enough. The power of the cube tells them what to do for Loki, what they need/their next target.. it tells Selvig about iridium and anti-protons which will be important... It told them what they would need ahead of time, but it also lets Selvig free from its grip and Loki's control at the end... It betrayed Loki by letting Selvig put in a kill switch... Part of the cube, or something working through the cube may have a mind of its own.... This force in the cube allowed Selvig to break free from Loki's use of it. Selvig said he might have known what he was doing, but the hint that the cube is still guiding him is that it points him in the direction of what he needs next to shut it down. It knew the future a little bit, knew what Slevig and Hawkeye needed and that the Selvig would end up looking right at the staff... The cube planned to betray Loki/Thanos, and allowed Selvig to work in the killswitch--set Selvig up to stop it after a certain point. The cube showed him so much of the "truth" and knowledge, it's much more than an energy source. There are other forces working through it. But the force that's working through the cube wasn't really allowing Selvig some freedom to shut down the portal. Instead it was betraying Loki...

Hela's unable to cross into the higher realms and even Midgard. But because Midgard exists in the middle realms, Surtur and Hela gain a little power on Earth after what Malekith does. The thing is Malekith needed to make a deal with Hela to bring Surtur back after his previous defeat. Malekith holds a loose alliance with the Hela and Surtur. He escaped the punishment that Surtur and Hela received, but just barely. Half of him was left scarred from the previous attempt to initiate Ragarok. Odin's punishment to the traitors involved in that previous attack. Many of them were left half-dead and some are the undead looking army with the black circles around their eyes.

As the movies progress Hela's slowly gaining enough energy to escape from Hel.
The only reason I think it could work is because the actress said she wants to become someone else; whereas Jane could easily be around as Thor's love interest for a while. Probably still by the time Avengers 2 happens. I do agree that it would create more drama if it were Jane. I just don't think Portman wants to become a villain.. Dennings might have to be a villain if she becomes someone else. It'd be much harder to make her a hero from the comics.. or even another villain. It seems like the best path for her should they choose to have her represent someone from the comics. Although they'd have to set it up with the possession angle ahead of time. There's a real Hela down in Hel pulling the strings and we'd have to see a little bit of her ahead of time too. Darcy seems more like she would be associated with Hel. She has a slightly darker outlook on things than Jane although it's humorous and sarcastic at first. She's slightly materialistic at this point and jokingly selfish, thinking of what she lost, but again she makes the ipod comment mainly as a joke. It could still indicate a few things about Darcy's personality.

Alternatively my time travel theories outline how they could include Enchantress instead--if they still go with the masters prison idea... If Red Skull returns instead of Zemo, then Enchantress is easier to work in... In my theory the first time we see the masters won't be their final lineup, i.e. Crossbones dies, Leader's off on his own saved for a future Hulk film that leads into a planet Hulk scenario. Hela/Darcy is not heard from again after the prison break until Thor 3. Avengers 2 only reintroduces us briefly to some of the people who will become the masters and sets up Avengers 3/Cap 3. Hela still wants to initiate Ragnarok even though Malekith's soul is gone--she can't resurrect him. The concept of the soul, or what the science based characters call life energy, is important to Strange and Warlock later on. Malekith's energy couldn't be sent to hel or she could send him right back if she wanted to... She ditches the proto-masters because she has bigger plans in mind. She knew the heroes and Thor would be busy in Midgard with Ultron and Thanos. When Thor returns to Asgard in Thor 3 Hela has already gathered enough energy through Darcy and found her way there. Starting Ragnarok a little more directly this time. So Thor 3 would be Hela and Surtur finally coming out in full force. Darcy was just a temporary vessel for her.

It's true it would be better if they somehow make another actress the embodiment of Hela, but I think Kat Dennings can work if she's open to the idea and really tries to own the role. In one video interview around the time of Thor she talked about the future of her character & seemed to be hinting that she would become someone else eventually. There's a couple other quotes of her saying similar stuff. I'm hard pressed to think of who else she could become. Since she's already established as an original human character. There's only a few Thor characters to work with and she can't become Enchantress because it's too far outside of her abilities and not many ways to make it work. Hela works from below, from another realm, so there's a certain amount of leeway that can be given to a possession angle from Hela. If she's forced to work from down there/within the base of the world tree. This would be set up by Odin's punishment for something she did in the past and the punishment/imprisonment themes in Thor2. She messes with Loki because Loki has been altered by his exposure to the cube, and could slip between back-doors if he were not imprisoned. there's a conflict between Hela down in Hel and Loki. I just think Dennings might have the right amount of darkness to pull off Hela's embodiment on earth if they take it seriously and show a drastic change in her personality, keeping some of her dark sarcasm that she displays in her 2broke girls show. Have her start teasing the characters in a darker way as she begins to change. Eventually it turns into her almost mocking characters that don't have powers as she gains them. She doesn't realize she's being overtaken by it and physically transforming to look more like the Hela we see operating her from below. I haven't really seen the actress do too much drama but she's actually pretty decent in Defendor. But again, there are comedy elements to her role in that. If she becomes Hela, especially if she's affected by the possession, she'd have to tap into the more dramatic side of her sarcastic acting style. We don't lose the humor/perspective from her character entirely. It just takes on a darker form.

It doesn't seem that Darcy's going with Jane to Asgard. We know she's in this movie and the plot begins and ends with Earth... What's Darcy doing the whole time Thor is touring the 9 realms? Is there an alternate reason the Darcy character was created in the first place? Are Selvig and Darcy there just to say hi to Thor as he picks Jane up? I think Darcy and Selvig will have even bigger roles in the film. Not necessarily more screen-time. More so continuing with the research/things Jane leaves behind in Midguard. Remember Hela wouldn't be able to travel to Asgard if trapped in Hel and forced to operate through people in Midguard. This may force the possession to Darcy as Jane escapes it...

However, Hela can visit Loki in prison within his mind for brief periods of time. Both are prisoners, both plan to escape. Each of them are working towards something different. Hela doesn't like Loki at this point. She insists that she's the cause of all of Asgard's current problems and the only other person she can speak with above Midguard is Malekith. He also understands backdoors through Yggdrasil and dark energy. Hela has no desire to work with Loki. She wants to see him go insane in prison while she frees herself. And Surtur. She has no purpose for Loki and feels superior to him and most other Asgardians, even though she's currently trapped. She claims that even if Ragnarok/twilight destroys Yggdrasil she'll be the one being that can transcend the death of the universe... the death of the world tree and everything in it. She's also playing a deadly game with Thanos possessing another form in the midguard realm... We don't find out that her focus on death can come in multiple forms until she's revealed as Thanos's mistress as well as Surtur's. As well as controlling Darcy and attempting to control Jane/Selvig. All she wants is death, certain deaths sometimes. She wanted Loki to lose... As did Thanos... To get the cube to Asgard. That's why Thanos smiles... not at the prospect of fighting Earth. He already achieved his goal. He's already courting death and she's helping some of the evil plans of our most powerful villains. The Other has a back door into Asgard now. The Other didn't know this at the time. By the Bourne woods scene he informs Loki that he's simply a pawn in the grand scheme of things and can be sacrificed. She's able to deceive Thanos with the form she appears in before him. She isn't his real death. Once her and Surtur are free she can survive anything Thanos or Surtur dishes out. Thor will basically have to learn how to seal her back in a temporal vortex, like Odin did, while Asgard fights off Surtur.