Poorly Written Script

[crazy sock]

Because everyone would rather see Superman in his costume,Iron man in his, Ghost Rider be a flaming skull, Spiderman in his.

You dont find it odd that all of the ones I listed above use there costumes from the comics an people like the movies still? Save Iron man since its not out yet. What a piss poor argument that was.

well a suit of armor and a biker with a skull on fire is def way cooler than some guys running around in yellow and blue tights. as for spiderman and superman, i dunno. i got nothing there, i dont know if its cause im a comic fan or what, but for some reason its just easier to see a superman or spiderman movie with em in actual tights. what about blade? have you ever seen what he originally looked like in the dracula comics back in the 70s? wearing green pants and goggles n whatnot and using wooden knives?and then there's the punisher, would you prefer if in the movie they had him wearing those big white gloves and boots like he originally had in the comics? cmon, sometimes things certain things need to be changed. whatever.

 

[The Ones]

This movie had many plotholes. I just wanted to comment on a few of them.

1. Why did GR need Blackheart to take control over all those souls for his penance stare to work? Blackheart is a demon and most religions suggest they spend all of their time torturing souls in hells when they're not causing trouble in our reality. Also, Blackheart killed plenty of people in the movie before GR uses his penance stare on him the first time. There's no rational way for anyone to explain away this gigantic plothole.

Because the Penance Stare burns the soul with all the sins they have done, and Blackheart doesnt have a soul.

2. How could the devil be deceptive enough to trick GR into signing his will, take his dad's life, and yet be too stupid to not add something to the will that would take GR's power away once Satan didn't need him anymore?!!!!

I guess he would have assumed any decent person would want to be free of the curse after they do his bidding, he wasnt counting on anyone keeping it

This is not a plothole but, I was wondering why Blackheart's goons were either wimps or complete morons. Fire guy was way too overconfident in thinking he had killed GR with the truck. Wind guy burned up by getting too close to GR's chain. Water guy already saw what GR did to Fire and Wind guy so I thought his plans for taking down GR would be more strategic.

"Fire guy" is actualy "Earth Guy" but they just got too cocky and underestimated Ghost Rider's abilities. Earth guy solidified (since fire hardens mud or dirt), Wind guy got burnt up, he stayed there because GR wasnt able to hit him with a chain, but when he realised what was happening it was too late, and water guy was strategic. Pulling him into water where fire cant ignite, except he was caught off guard with hell fire.

 

[Warhammer]

The movie's script was terrible.
The SFX, Ghost Rider himself, Caretaker, and the fact that it was a comic book movie saved it for me.

By reading the first page, ProjectPat is terribly biased.

 

[Mr. Credible]

Something that really hurt this film was the script. The script had plot-holes, terrible plot structure, an abudance of exposition, cliches, needless characters, and terrible set-up payoff. Truely when reading this someone should of saw something wrong and not just written it off as, "It's being faithful to the source material". That is not an excuse, if something's wrong then fix it. The first 30-40 minutes felt completely forced, why not just cut it out? Everything that was seen in the first 30-40 minutes has been done to death so if you need to go that route, why not use plot structure to make it interesting. It should of started when Johnny was older and the Devil coming back to reclaim the deal.

The script makes absolutely no sense, if this was to happen to someone, and the devil didn't show up for another 20 years, a person would slip into denial and try to forget it happen. And the person would not choose to make his life-profession the profession that killed his dad and ruined his life. Which leaves us with Roxanne, what the ****? Who stays in love with a highschool fling for 10 years, it doesn't make any sense, and reeks of the crappy writing that use to fly in comics. Why is Roxanne in the movie? She serves no real purpose since the love relationship is completely superficial and forced, she simply serves as a crappy plot device for later on. We're also forced to bear the scene we've seen a hundred times, "I Don't believe you, LIAR!" Come on, if someone you really cared about actually told you something that ridiculous, you would not call him a liar, because if he was, he would of given a more believable lie.

Another useless character is Caretaker, all he's used for is to play up the shoddy writing by having a cliche character walk us through this, funny enough they use the same exact techinique in Spawn with Cogliostro. It wouldn't have been so bad, had he actually done something in the end other than ride with Johnny to the climax only to fade into thin air, at least Cog kicked ass at the end of Spawn.

Then MSJ goes on to break the cardinal rule of fantasy writing which is breaking established rules within a world, he doesn't define whether Ghost Rider is a seperate entity or not. He has him have a cut after transforming for Johnny but doesn't explain why he isn't dead from being shot at. He says he only transforms at night but then he can transform in the shadows. Terrible writing which tries to hide behind the crappy excuse of "Following the source material".

hm, and for some reason you feel this deserved it's own thread? instead of going in one of the other few review threads?

awesome.

 

[Infinity9999x]

People like you are the biggest problem when it comes to movies. You are like one of those pompous hollywood critics who swear they know whats best for everyone. This movie was made to do nothing more than be an entertaining, special effects pop corn fest. Thats it, it wasnt going for an oscar or any other lame ass un-deserved trash award. Its a comic book film, you and the rest of hollywood are just reading WAYYYY to much into it.

No he's not. Even in fun popcorn flicks, I still want my movie to make sense. There were glaring plotholes in this movie, and things like that take you out of the experience. Things like saying GR can only transform at Night then having him transform in shadows, or caretaker saying that "they" can't set foot on hallowed ground and then seeing Blackfoot kill a priest in a church (and then see the Hidden standing in the back of the church with him) are annoying plot holes that could have been easily fixed.

But hey if you don't mind it when movies set rules for there characters then randomly break them then fine, I just like my movies to have a sense of continuity.

And Ghost Rider could have been much more then a special effects popcorn flick. Comic books can be turned into very good movies. If you think comics are only campy fun magazines to look at you don't understand the genre. Try reading V for Vendetta or Watchmen, and then tell me comics should only be campy popcorn flick movies.

 

[Infinity9999x]

hm, and for some reason you feel this deserved it's own thread? instead of going in one of the other few review threads?

awesome.

your avy made me feel joyt:

 

[Mr. Credible]

your avy made me feel joyt:

thanks... i made it myself.

 

[Warhammer]

No he's not. Even in fun popcorn flicks, I still want my movie to make sense. There were glaring plotholes in this movie, and things like that take you out of the experience. Things like saying GR can only transform at Night then having him transform in shadows, or caretaker saying that "they" can't set foot on hallowed ground and then seeing Blackfoot kill a priest in a church (and then see the Hidden standing in the back of the church with him) are annoying plot holes that could have been easily fixed.

But hey if you don't mind it when movies set rules for there characters then randomly break them then fine, I just like my movies to have a sense of continuity.

And Ghost Rider could have been much more then a special effects popcorn flick. Comic books can be turned into very good movies. If you think comics are only campy fun magazines to look at you don't understand the genre. Try reading V for Vendetta or Watchmen, and then tell me comics should only be campy popcorn flick movies.

He won't understand this post.
He clearly doesn't know what a good movie can be, nor can he wish for a comic book movie to be praised by the critics. By his logic, I bet he hated X2 or Batman Begins and preferred the old school Captain America.

The funny thing is how mad he got about Movies's first post. I guess all of us that want/watch good movies are like "pompous hollywood critics who swear they know whats best for everyone."

 

[Demon Within]

well a suit of armor and a biker with a skull on fire is def way cooler than some guys running around in yellow and blue tights. as for spiderman and superman, i dunno. i got nothing there, i dont know if its cause im a comic fan or what, but for some reason its just easier to see a superman or spiderman movie with em in actual tights. what about blade? have you ever seen what he originally looked like in the dracula comics back in the 70s? wearing green pants and goggles n whatnot and using wooden knives?and then there's the punisher, would you prefer if in the movie they had him wearing those big white gloves and boots like he originally had in the comics? cmon, sometimes things certain things need to be changed. whatever.

I agree sometimes costumes are too awful to put onscreen. Most of the Xmen costumes needed a change not in color but in material. Leather was a bad choice. Its not practical to wear a full leather outfit because A) its restrictive for movement, which people like wolverine and colossus dont want B) its too hot once you start moving. Even then I could have taken it had it not been all black. All black costume tells me the director didnt even TRY to make it creative, he went the easy route.

I agree Xmen shouldnt be tights but I also believe jet black leather was just as wrong.

Another thing. I dont like making exceptions. Singer chose not to use the Xmen costumes saying it would have been silly, people ate it up. Then being a COMPLETE hypocrite makes Supermans outfit damn close to the comics. How was it not silly then?? Guess what happen, again people gave a pass. Talk about a win win for him while a loss for xmen fans an a win for superman fans.

 

[The Guard]

Stupid question. Is a church considered hallowed ground? I know cemeteries are...

Anyway, Bryan Singer reasoned that dark characters wearing bright colors (Wolverine wearing yellow and powder blue? The X-Men looking like a rainbow?) would be silly and counterproductive in live-action. He was right. He was also right to reason that a more hopeful, bright character like Superman should retain his costume. It's situational, people. He didn't just hate costumes for the sake of hating costumes.

 

[Mr. Socko]

I really wasn't thinking about plotholes when I saw the movie. Not until I started reading about them on this board.

 

[Theweepeople]

Because the Penance Stare burns the soul with all the sins they have done, and Blackheart doesnt have a soul.

I think you missed my point. It made no sense for the souls to go into Blackheart. What was he going to do with them? The souls should have gone immediately to Hell where he could torture them.

I guess he would have assumed any decent person would want to be free of the curse after they do his bidding, he wasnt counting on anyone keeping it.

I'm not buying this explanation. Satan's been the master of deception since the beginning of time and he is unable to predict the possibility of someone holding on to this power to try and use it against him. Furthermore, Sam Elliot's character used it against him therefore, the Satan in GR is a complete moron.

"Fire guy" is actualy "Earth Guy" but they just got too cocky and underestimated Ghost Rider's abilities. Earth guy solidified (since fire hardens mud or dirt), .

Cocky I agree with. However, he is still a pathetic villian.

"Wind guy got burnt up, he stayed there because GR wasnt able to hit him with a chain, but when he realised what was happening it was too late,.

This makes him a pathetic villian.

"and water guy was strategic. Pulling him into water where fire cant ignite, except he was caught off guard with hell fire.

What strategy? Water guy saw that getting too close to GR was a death wish. Are you trying to convince me that blackheart's goons had no knowledge of GR's hellfire powers after Satan had given this power to previous riders?

 

[Number17]

People like you are the biggest problem when it comes to movies. You are like one of those pompous hollywood critics who swear they know whats best for everyone. This movie was made to do nothing more than be an entertaining, special effects pop corn fest. Thats it, it wasnt going for an oscar or any other lame ass un-deserved trash award. Its a comic book film, you and the rest of hollywood are just reading WAYYYY to much into it.

Yeah...

The movie sucked.

 

[The Kid]

I think you missed my point. It made no sense for the souls to go into Blackheart. What was he going to do with them? The souls should have gone immediately to Hell where he could torture them.


He told them to come to him... It's like Mummra the ever living getting super powered in thundercats.


I'm not buying this explanation. Satan's been the master of deception since the beginning of time and he is unable to predict the possibility of someone holding on to this power to try and use it against him. Furthermore, Sam Elliot's character used it against him therefore, the Satan in GR is a complete moron.


You'll just have to suspend disbelief in this instance. And calling satan a moron, well, that's not so bad.


Cocky I agree with. However, he is still a pathetic villian.

Blackheart's never been special to me either.

This makes him a pathetic villian.



What strategy? Water guy saw that getting too close to GR was a death wish. Are you trying to convince me that blackheart's goons had no knowledge of GR's hellfire powers after Satan had given this power to previous riders?

The strategy was to drown the ghost rider in water.

Overall I do agree though that the villains are the weakest part of the film. That needs to be rectified in GR 2.

 

[Pilgrim]

No he's not. Even in fun popcorn flicks, I still want my movie to make sense. There were glaring plotholes in this movie, and things like that take you out of the experience. Things like saying GR can only transform at Night then having him transform in shadows, or caretaker saying that "they" can't set foot on hallowed ground and then seeing Blackfoot kill a priest in a church (and then see the Hidden standing in the back of the church with him) are annoying plot holes that could have been easily fixed.

But hey if you don't mind it when movies set rules for there characters then randomly break them then fine, I just like my movies to have a sense of continuity.

And Ghost Rider could have been much more then a special effects popcorn flick. Comic books can be turned into very good movies. If you think comics are only campy fun magazines to look at you don't understand the genre. Try reading V for Vendetta or Watchmen, and then tell me comics should only be campy popcorn flick movies.

1) Caretaker tells him that at night the rider takes over but towards the end johnny learns to control the rider and thats why he can use the power in the dark just not in sunlight. In short at the start the rider takes control of johnny which is why its so painful and once you get to the end of the movie johnny has learnt how to control the rider. They probably should of had caretaker explain it better at the end instead of just saying "Stick to the shadows".

2) Caretaker's exact words - "The Hidden. Fallen angels cast out of heaven by saint michael himself. They hide within the elements, waiting for the end of days. You better hang around here kid. They can't come on the hallowed ground." The hidden never show up in the church with blackheart...watch it again.

 

[AssMan]

Here's a plot hole. Johnny told Roxanne that he sold his soul to the devil so that the devil would spare Roxanne. But the truth is Roxanne had nothing to do with Johnny selling his soul to the devil. Johnny sold his soul to the devil to save his father nothing more & nothing less.

 

[Pilgrim]

Here's a plot hole. Johnny told Roxanne that he sold his soul to the devil so that the devil would spare Roxanne. But the truth is Roxanne had nothing to do with Johnny selling his soul to the devil. Johnny sold his soul to the devil to save his father nothing more & nothing less.

Johnny: I sold my soul to the devil, and now I have to spare you.
Roxanne: Spare me from what?
Johnny: The devil because I work for him.

Completely different to what you said....

 

[Infinity9999x]

1) Caretaker tells him that at night the rider takes over but towards the end johnny learns to control the rider and thats why he can use the power in the dark just not in sunlight. In short at the start the rider takes control of johnny which is why its so painful and once you get to the end of the movie johnny has learnt how to control the rider.

If he learned how to control the rider they most definatley needed to make it more clear. All that happened was Blaze appealing to the "fires spirit" inside him for control, and then his hand cought fire. I think it should have been a little harder then that. And besides, they never actually imply that he gained control at all, all that happens is his hand catching fire...how does that imply that he's gained control?

And like I've said in other threads, I would have thought it was really cool if they had shown multiple scenes of Blaze fighting to control the rider, and then in the final scene with Blackheart show that Blaze manages to do what no other rider has ever done, bring out the Ghost Rider during the day.

2) Caretaker's exact words - "The Hidden. Fallen angels cast out of heaven by saint michael himself. They hide within the elements, waiting for the end of days. You better hang around here kid. They can't come on the hallowed ground." The hidden never show up in the church with blackheart...watch it again.

Ahh okay, but then, where were they? Right after it cuts away from Blackheart getting ready to kill the priest, and it cuts back to to Blackheart talking to the Hidden, they are in a building which looks very simmilar to the church Blackheart was just in. If it wasn't the church it certainly was confusing, because it certainly looked like it was.

 

[The Ones]

If he learned how to control the rider they most definatley needed to make it more clear. All that happened was Blaze appealing to the "fires spirit" inside him for control, and then his hand cought fire. I think it should have been a little harder then that. And besides, they never actually imply that he gained control at all, all that happens is his hand catching fire...how does that imply that he's gained control?

Because he brought out an element of the rider in his own free will

Ahh okay, but then, where were they? Right after it cuts away from Blackheart getting ready to kill the priest, and it cuts back to to Blackheart talking to the Hidden, they are in a building which looks very simmilar to the church Blackheart was just in. If it wasn't the church it certainly was confusing, because it certainly looked like it was.

They were outside genius

 

[AssMan]

Completely different to what you said....

 

[Pilgrim]

If he learned how to control the rider they most definatley needed to make it more clear. All that happened was Blaze appealing to the "fires spirit" inside him for control, and then his hand cought fire. I think it should have been a little harder then that. And besides, they never actually imply that he gained control at all, all that happens is his hand catching fire...how does that imply that he's gained control?

And like I've said in other threads, I would have thought it was really cool if they had shown multiple scenes of Blaze fighting to control the rider, and then in the final scene with Blackheart show that Blaze manages to do what no other rider has ever done, bring out the Ghost Rider during the day.


Ahh okay, but then, where were they? Right after it cuts away from Blackheart getting ready to kill the priest, and it cuts back to to Blackheart talking to the Hidden, they are in a building which looks very simmilar to the church Blackheart was just in. If it wasn't the church it certainly was confusing, because it certainly looked like it was.

You notice he's gained control by the scenes where he transforms for instance its night when he's talking to caretaker before they leave to ride together but johnny isn't ghost rider...he transforms at will when he says "lets ride". Also when they get there he transforms back to normal to talk to caretaker even though its still dark. So to me that implies that he has control but not enough control to use it in the day light.

I just remembered...the last scene before the credits where johnny is riding on the road it appears to be day time and he transforms then it cuts to the credits. I can't be sure but it looked like day time to me.

From what I can tell they aren't in the church anymore they are outside. Blackheart walks down the stairs and they are there waiting for him. If you look in the background you can tell that they are outside the church but maybe they should of shown blackheart coming out of the church doors and walking outside but instead you just see him walking down some stairs.

 

[The Ones]

Johnny: I sold my soul to the devil, and now I have to spare you.
Roxanne: Spare me from what?
Johnny: The devil because I work for him.

Completely different to what you said....

Lol, owned

 

[Arkady Rossovich]

I only know a few things about Ghost Rider,but a question i have is this...how is GR portrayed in comics.Was he portrayed the same way in the movie?

 

[AssMan]

Lol, owned

You got owned to so hush

 

[The Kid]

I only know a few things about Ghost Rider,but a question i have is this...how is GR portrayed in comics.Was he portrayed the same way in the movie?

Most of us have no clue about that.