The Dark Knight Post-Teaser Question: Will Joker Be the Anti-Bat?

[rohitiyer]

We all know Nolan's strength for introducing themes into his movies. With BB, it was fear as well as the idea that acting on your beliefs makes a difference, etc. etc.

After seeing the new Teaser, from the little dialogue that one hears, I kind of got the feeling that Joker might be played out to be something like an equal and opposite figure to Batman.

Like Neo-Smith, but not necessarily to that limit.

Do you guys agree? And what do you think of this as one of the themes for the movie?

 

[Mr. Superhero]

Theme of the movie?

*turns and glares at the camera*

Pain....

 

[bassturd]

sure, why not

And the Joker also wears his mask (facepaint) to strike fear into his victums as does Batman. Why I like facepaint over accidental bleached skin. Joker going psycho partly due to his vanity being tarnished is not so scarey to me. That sounds more like something that would happen for Clayface or even Two-Face.

 

[Figs]

We all know Nolan's strength for introducing themes into his movies. With BB, it was fear as well as the idea that acting makes a difference, etc. etc.

After seeing the new Teaser, from the little dialogue that one hears, I kind of got the feeling that Joker might be played out to be something like an equal and opposite figure to Batman.

Like Neo-Smith, but not necessarily to that limit.

Do you guys agree? And what do you think of this as theme for the movie?

I always thought that's what the Joker was in the comics. The Yang to Batmans Yin sorta.

 

[rohitiyer]

The Dark Knight vs. The Clown Prince!

Hmmm... I'm getting images of a medieval Batman. Has that been done before?

That aside... I for one am FOR it only if it works well and makes sense. It's actually cliched, but that's why it usually works.

 

[Oryon]

The impression I get, is that Batman has bitten off more than he can chew.

Things will get worse before they get better...Escalation.

 

[StorminNorman]

I want to be able to cut the Sexual Tension with a Knife.

 

[wikum]

Like Neo-Smith, but not necessarily to that limit.

Well thats sorta how they have always been anyways.

But yea I agree.

I think The Joker may well even LIKE Batman...in a weird perverted way. Not in a Brokeback Mountain way.

Obviously Batman will hate Joker, but he will respect his intelligence.

 

[rohitiyer]

I always thought that's what the Joker was in the comics. The Yang to Batmans Yin sorta.

Yes, you're right.

But what I mean to ask is how far do you think it'll be pushed? In some books, that idea has really been at the forefront.

Yet somehow, I don't see the equation between Batman and Joker being so simple. It's kind of hard to summarise in a couple of words.

That just makes me think that establishing that equation in this movie could be a difficult task.

x

 

[TheCosmonaut]

I want to be able to cut the Sexual Tension with a Knife.

HAH!

 

[Figs]

Yes, you're right.

But what I mean to ask is how far do you think it'll be pushed? In some books, that idea has really been at the forefront.

Yet somehow, I don't see the equation between Batman and Joker being so simple. It's kind of hard to summarise in a couple of words.

That just makes me think that establishing that equation in this movie could be a difficult task.

x

That's why im hoping he'll also be in a third movie as well. I was on the side of the argument that Two Face alone couldn't hold a movie. If for the first time, Nolan is having a villain reappear (Scarecrow). I have high hopes Joker will be in the third, with that they can expand even more on their relationship/cat and mouse games.

 

[rohitiyer]

I also now think that the conversations/dialogues between the two are very, VERY crucial.

I hope they've written some really strong stuff.

Interestingly enough, this angle has been tried even between Superman and Luthor. But that didn't come through at all (I think it's partly because Superman didn't talk much) in Superman Returns.

But that's another movie...

 

[Eggyman]

I've always wanted to see Batman and The Joker having a conversation in an Arkham cell. Maybe The Joker and Dent get very connected in this film, and then in the third, Batman can visit Joker for some info on how Two-Face works -- almost like a Silence of the Lambs kinda vibe . . . or The Killing Joke.

Some parts of the third film could almost be narrated by The Joker, as he and Batman exchange stories about Dent/Two-Face.

 

[rohitiyer]

YES!!!

A conversation in Arkham. I think I saw that in one of the comic-inspiration threads. Now which book was that?

(Something like Batman is talking to Joker, who's in a strait-jacket, only to discover that it's a decoy)

 

[Figs]

YES!!!

A conversation in Arkham. I think I saw that in one of the comic-inspiration threads. Now which book was that?

(Something like Batman is talking to Joker, who's in a strait-jacket, only to discover that it's a decoy)

There's been a few. The Killing Joke is one of them.

 

[the amazing fro]

I've always wanted to see Batman and The Joker having a conversation in an Arkham cell. Maybe The Joker and Dent get very connected in this film, and then in the third, Batman can visit Joker for some info on how Two-Face works -- almost like a Silence of the Lambs kinda vibe . . . or The Killing Joke.

Some parts of the third film could almost be narrated by The Joker, as he and Batman exchange stories about Dent/Two-Face.

I like that!!!

I agree that the joker and bats should have strong dialogue together. They are possibly comics best worst enemies.

 

[Joker]

ever since Joker's first appearance (where Batman even says as much to Robin) Joker and Batman have been equal/opposites...it's not a new theme at all.

 

[Stotch]

ever since Joker's first appearance (where Batman even says as much to Robin) Joker and Batman have been equal/opposites...it's not a new theme at all.

What he said.

 

[Rockbottom]

I think The Joker may well even LIKE Batman

The way ive always seen it is that, Joker is obsessed with Batman and that if he loses Batman from his life then he him self would be lost. Sometimes I doubt Joker even really wants to kill Batman and just enjoys his attention. The Animated series did a great job of showing this especially in "The man who killed Batman". "Going sane" from the comics re-enforces this too.

Its just with so little time in a film, its hard to show this relationship.

 

[rohitiyer]

This makes me wonder...

Are there any dialogues from comics that people could post here? We'll have some reference to discuss the way the two interact.

 

[the amazing fro]

None come to mind. There's loads in the killing joker and man who laughs but i cant remember them

 

[Eggyman]

Batman and Joker could almost be made to represent the two sides of Two-Face's coin.

 

[Eggyman]

The end of The Killing Joke is amazing -- The Joker actually makes Batman laugh: 'Heh.'

 

[CFE]

The initial poster is absolutely correct.

The way I pictured it in the "Begins" universe is this:

When Batman came on the scene, the Joker was inspired to step up and help save Gotham as well. However, he does so through execution rather than incarciration.

The way I see it, Joker agrees with Batman that Gotham needs to be salvaged, but perhaps he feels that Batman's methods aren't efficient enough. I mean, a criminal can get out of prison. But they can't come back to life.

So I could see the double homicide the Joker committed at the end of BB to actually be two of Maroni's goons.

Another poster in another thread stated that because Batman severely crippled the organized crime faction with taking down Falcone, the mob decides to turn to the Joker for help, seeking to fight symbol against symbol. Batman represents order while Joker represents chaos.

and this idea led me to look at this viral campaign from another angle. What if all this marketing and the Joker's exploits are set in motion to build his criminal reputation prior to the film's release?

I mean, we're still more or less a year away, and Joker's body count already rose from the 2 in 2005 (end of BB) to 4 yesterday (phone guy and foe-ker)

No matter how desperate, there's no way th mob would turn to a novice to help them out with an opponent like Batman.

So what if this marketing campaign is to build up the Joker's reputation and body count so that by TDK, he's no longer a clown of crime but a clown PRINCE of crime?

Either way, I agree with the premise of this thread.

As Joker himself stated in the fan film "Patient J"

"I'm there face to face with him...while everyone else is on the outside...looking in."

"I perform, that's out there...in here, in Arkham...I'm behind the curtain...Batman's a performer to, y'know. Mostly dramatic...can't do comedy for the life of him, heheheheh....he and I...WE...create a balance...I'm here behind the curtain, and I'm sure whereever Batsy is right now...he's sitting alone...out of costume...in his own straight jakcet."



This theme has remained consistent in the Batman mythology almost since inception, and it's a damn good one!

CFE

 

[Spider-Bite]

the link wont work. I can't watch it