Problem with Marvel Studios....

[The Batman]

to be honest, i dont really care what you think of STM.The characters not being developed is your OPINION, and we're not arguing that. And again, this is not a DC or marvel thing, as I've mentioned before that BB ripped off the formula as well. And now, you're just arguing semantics and little details that dont strengthen you're overall point. Before STM, comic movies didnt get big budgets, directors didnt seek for unknown actors, and they didnt try to bring a sense of realism to the movies. STM did all that, and ever since, we've seen directors talk about finding an unknown, making things realistic, and throwing big budgets at them. Honestly, you are fooling yourself if you think that every post-STM comic movie hasnt taken from STM in some way, whether its DC, Marvel, Image, Dark Horse or whatever, and thats all I have to say about that. It seems the only reason you and the other posters who disagree with me dont want to admit it is because you think this is a case of "Marvel vs DC". No one's egging anyone. I'm just trying to tell the simple truth, especially when Marvel's Directors and producers have cited that STM influenced them in some way.

 

[Mr Sensitive]

Your post reminds me of some of the complaints I read about "V For Vendetta"; many complained about its inaccuracy & the liberties taken by the filmmakers. But the book was written in the 80's & set in the 90's, which have come & gone.

The good compaints about V for Vendetta were not baseless, and not about inaccuracy.

They stated the movie toned down or simply betrayed Morre's radical views: anarchism, V's unrepentant behaviour, the development of Evey from total ignorance to self-assurance (she has become the cliché of strong women in the movie), the very specific dictator has become a cliché of screaming dictators à la Mussolini and Hitler. ETc & etc.

And the fact that it was written in the 80's just causes bewilderment: it's news that stay news. Just like Watchmen. Watchmen has even more meaning now, after the 9/11 attacks.

Plus: if there is something the filmmaker didn't take it is liberty. No, no, he took the safest way.

 

[Mister Gone]

The only thing that really makes or breaks a comic book film, is the comic itself. You have to understand that anyone who decides to take on a super hero movie has a choice to make: try to cram as many true to comic stuff in the movie and end up with a Judge Dredd, or take the basic idea of the character and focus on one problem or bad guy (and pray for sequels) It is impossible to cram a 50 year history into a 2 hour movie. The best advice I ever got as an amateur screen writer is "If you think you can write a better movie, then write it."

Take an hour a day and do a treatment of your favorite comic and send it in. All you have to lose is time, it's always easier to complain than act on a problem.

Imagine if all the money wasted on Kagaroo Jack, ended up in your pocket for writing a true to comic Top Ten, or Watchmen, or something else great

 

[Mr Sensitive]

The only thing that really makes or breaks a comic book film, is the comic itself. You have to understand that anyone who decides to take on a super hero movie has a choice to make: try to cram as many true to comic stuff in the movie and end up with a Judge Dredd, or take the basic idea of the character and focus on one problem or bad guy (and pray for sequels) It is impossible to cram a 50 year history into a 2 hour movie. The best advice I ever got as an amateur screen writer is "If you think you can write a better movie, then write it."

Take an hour a day and do a treatment of your favorite comic and send it in. All you have to lose is time, it's always easier to complain than act on a problem.

Imagine if all the money wasted on Kagaroo Jack, ended up in your pocket for writing a true to comic Top Ten, or Watchmen, or something else great

First they hire me. Second, I show them what I'm capable of.

 

[Chris Wallace]

The only thing that really makes or breaks a comic book film, is the comic itself. You have to understand that anyone who decides to take on a super hero movie has a choice to make: try to cram as many true to comic stuff in the movie and end up with a Judge Dredd, or take the basic idea of the character and focus on one problem or bad guy (and pray for sequels) It is impossible to cram a 50 year history into a 2 hour movie. The best advice I ever got as an amateur screen writer is "If you think you can write a better movie, then write it."

Take an hour a day and do a treatment of your favorite comic and send it in. All you have to lose is time, it's always easier to complain than act on a problem.

Imagine if all the money wasted on Kagaroo Jack, ended up in your pocket for writing a true to comic Top Ten, or Watchmen, or something else great

Very true. See, this is what the problem boils down to; pretty much every comic fan since 1978 has his favorite comic movie already written, cast, directer & filmed in his head. So when he goes into the theater & what ends up on the screen doesn't match what he thinks it should be, he complains. What I think a character would/wouldn't/should/shouldn't do in a given situation doesn't always match what you think. I remember Famka Janssen said something like this "These days, everybody's a filmmaker".

 

[zanos]

I feel a big problem with Marvel (besides FOX) is that they don't base their movies on actual storylines from their respected comics.

I think and feel if they did this a majortity of the films would be some what better. I mean it is clear that the films are more for the general public than they are for us.

Look how mixed up Spider-Man is, The FF4, and Dare Devil. The writers come up with their own form of the character's origins and we get the messes we see today.

Marvel doesn't make movies they license their properties out to actual studios that do.

 

[Nebins]

I like the original story lines in movies. I look at it as just another story in the history of whatever character it is. Some things should stay true to the character like the origin but other then that I enjoy an original story.

 

[Nebins]

Marvel doesn't make movies they license their properties out to actual studios that do.

That's true but Marvel now owns the rights to The Hulk, Iron Man, and I think Captain America so they will start making their own movies soon.

 

[Mr. Socko]

to be honest, i dont really care what you think of STM.The characters not being developed is your OPINION, and we're not arguing that. And again, this is not a DC or marvel thing, as I've mentioned before that BB ripped off the formula as well. And now, you're just arguing semantics and little details that dont strengthen you're overall point. Before STM, comic movies didnt get big budgets, directors didnt seek for unknown actors, and they didnt try to bring a sense of realism to the movies. STM did all that, and ever since, we've seen directors talk about finding an unknown, making things realistic, and throwing big budgets at them. Honestly, you are fooling yourself if you think that every post-STM comic movie hasnt taken from STM in some way, whether its DC, Marvel, Image, Dark Horse or whatever, and thats all I have to say about that. It seems the only reason you and the other posters who disagree with me dont want to admit it is because you think this is a case of "Marvel vs DC". No one's egging anyone. I'm just trying to tell the simple truth, especially when Marvel's Directors and producers have cited that STM influenced them in some way.

Never thought of that, but you're correct

As for comic book movies being enitely accurate, Sin City is the only one that has ever done that. And it's not gonna change any time soon. Not all comic book movies will work that way. Although some may also look at it as laziness. Robert Rodriguez didn't have to do a script, no storyboards, or anything. Use the comics as the basis for everything.

 

[KevanG]

Honestly I've found that movies that stick too close to the comics spread themselves too thin and wind up having too much action and no development story or characterwise. I'm both a Marvel and DC fan, though (mostly because of What if?) Marvel is my fav.
I mean in order to do the first spidey movie he'd have to fight Ock, Sandman, Vulture and about 50 others in the first movie just to cover the first movies plot, Never mind bringing in Gwen Stacy and having her and MJ both have a crush on Peter. I'm not saying that DC films are better or worse than Marvel films, All my rant is to point out that if they attempt to shove too much plot into 2-3 hours they ruin the movie. Of course there is the other end of the scale (see 90's fantastic four movie), That movie was so bad it was hilarious.

 

[Chris Wallace]

What gets me is, some of the same people who knock Marvel films for not following their books closely enough, are perfectly ok w/Jor-El being 50, Lex wearing a toupee & living in a subway tunnel, the Joker killing Bruce's parents, the Penguin being a sewer-dwelling circus freak & Catwoman being a mousy little secretary who goes nuts after being thrown out of a window & bitten by cats.

 

[The Batman]

See how you're making this a DC/Marvel thiung, and then try to accuse others of the same thing?

 

[Chris Wallace]

Finally, Something Where You & I Totally Agree.

 

[Mr Sensitive]

Dr. Doom was changed a bit too much, though was still enjoyable to me as a character... just not the Dr. Doom character that I've read so much about in the comics.

In the end, as the characters are adapted... keyword there... adapted... there will be some changes made that fans won't be happy with and some that will make the character that much better for the next generation. I guess we'll just have to wait and see where each character ends up.

When the changes are meant to improve the character, and effectively do so, fine.

It was not the case of Dr. Doom. I really do not understand what you mean with "still enjoyable".

Spidey movies are good, indeed. But changing that very charming trademark of his jokes during the fights wasn't a good idea, for instance.

He seems to complain more of his life without them, that made the character always fresh and ironic with his own problems.

 

[Chris Wallace]

In Doom's Case, I Still Liked Him. I Look St It This Way; If I Were In Charge Of My Own Country, I'd Need A Very Good Reason To Travel All The Way To New York & Start A Ruckus. Killing My College Roommate B/c He Outscored Me On A Couple Of Test Doesn't Qualify. Hey, I'm A King & You're Struggling To Make Your Rent? I Won. Now If, On The Other Hand, I Had Gone Into A Business Venture W/said Former Roomie, & As A Result Lost My Fortune, My Rep, My Looks And My Health While He Gained Instant Celebrity Status, I Might Wanna Take Him Out.
As For Spidey, I'd Like To Hear More Of His Legendary Wisecracks, But It's A Slippery Slope. When You Look At "Batman & Robin" And The TMNT Flicks, There's A Very Thin Line Between Witty Repartee & Camp.

 

[KenK]

Spidey movies are good, indeed. But changing that very charming trademark of his jokes during the fights wasn't a good idea, for instance.

He may not have had an endless stream of one-liners, but I liked the scene in the first film, after he webs JJJ's mouth shut and say, "Pipe down, son, while us growns up have a chat!" Or the second film, when he hits Doc Ock with the coin bag while saying "here's your change!" That's good stuff, and it's minimal. I wouldn't want it making up too much of his dialogue.

And yeah, Having seen Superman, Lex being introduced and immediately knowing everything about Superman makes no sense to me!! Am I missing something, or is that just a big Deus Ex Machina. Not to mention Superman's "fly around Earth and reverse its rotation to turn back time" trick. it's always seemed profoundly stupid to me.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Oh, Don't Get Me Started! And Somehow, When He Did It, Everybody Remembered The Earthquake But All Physical Evidence Of It Is Erased, & Lois Never Died? At Best, It Should've Bought Him Time To Save Her, Not Wipe Out Her Death Altogether.

 

[Mr Sensitive]

In Doom's Case, I Still Liked Him. I Look St It This Way; If I Were In Charge Of My Own Country, I'd Need A Very Good Reason To Travel All The Way To New York & Start A Ruckus. Killing My College Roommate B/c He Outscored Me On A Couple Of Test Doesn't Qualify. Hey, I'm A King & You're Struggling To Make Your Rent? I Won. Now If, On The Other Hand, I Had Gone Into A Business Venture W/said Former Roomie, & As A Result Lost My Fortune, My Rep, My Looks And My Health While He Gained Instant Celebrity Status, I Might Wanna Take Him Out.
As For Spidey, I'd Like To Hear More Of His Legendary Wisecracks, But It's A Slippery Slope. When You Look At "Batman & Robin" And The TMNT Flicks, There's A Very Thin Line Between Witty Repartee & Camp.

Yeah, the only problem with what you said, is that what makes Doom a great villain in the comics has nothing to do with it.

And movie Doom is a rip-off from first Spidey's Norman Osborn (which, in itself, could have been better too). Movie Doom is just a souless DINO.

About Spidey: his wisecracks can be a risk, but they make sense for the character.

We are amused, yes, but at the same time, we feel that it shows Parker dealing with very peculiar courage with his multiple and difficult problems.

 

[Chris Wallace]

I Don't Fully Agree With You There; The Parallels Do Exist, But I Don't Think Doom Was Soulless. This Was His Introduction. I Agree, More Time Should've Been Spent Developing Him But They Already Had 4 Other Stories To Tell. I Expect That When Next We See Doom On Film We'll All Have A Greater Appreciation For Him.

 

[Chris Wallace]

And as for Spidey; if they'd eliminated his one-liners altogether like they did in the 70's (along w/everything else that I love about Spider-Man) I'd have been p***ed. As it was, yes, they're few & far-between, but they're there & they're good ones. That's good enough for me. I still laugh at "I have a knack for that." & "Here's your change!"