racism in hollywood - and how far it has come.

[XtremelyBaneful]

I can think of a few examples, but you are right. The lack of representation for non-black minorities (and their struggles in general) are less noticed.

It still doesn't invalidate the practice of changing the race of a traditionally white character. If anything, it makes that practice more necessary.

instead of changing the races of generations-old characters, I think it is better to create and invent new characters of different races instead.

because we just talked about and established - most of the time on screen a white character, when has his race changed, the new race is black. the fact that the director behind it all believes there needs to be a change - and that the change has to be that the character needs to black - is racist. if he's placing emphasis on the change of race, he's neglecting all the other races that weren't incorporated into said work. so with that logic, the director is better off not changing the races at all.

 

[The Question]

instead of changing the races of generations-old characters, I think it is better to create and invent new characters of different races instead.

I don't see how it is better.

What would be better would be to do more of both.

because we just talked about and established - most of the time on screen a white character, when has his race changed, the new race is black. the fact that the director behind it all believes there needs to be a change - and that the change has to be that the character needs to black - is racist. if he's placing emphasis on the change of race, he's neglecting all the other races that weren't incorporated into said work. so with that logic, the director is better off not changing the races at all.

I disagree.

First, how is creating a brand new character any different?

Second, wouldn't the problem be better solved by simply making more race changes to other, underrepresented races?

Third, wouldn't the problem be better solved by not just making one race change per film?

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I see this thread is exactly as I imagined, with the usual suspects making the usual arguments past one another.

 

[The Question]

I see this thread is exactly as I imagined, with the usual suspects making the usual arguments past one another.

… okay?

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Exactamundo.

 

[The Question]

Exactamundo.

What's your point here?

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

I don't see how it is better.

What would be better would be to do more of both.

Well let's just agree to disagree here. I'm not telling you that your idea is wrong, I'm just telling you that most of the time I prefer character's races be unchanged. Sometimes it's cool and sometimes it's not but we'll get to that later.

I disagree.

First, how is creating a brand new character any different?

Second, wouldn't the problem be better solved by simply making more race changes to other, underrepresented races?

Third, wouldn't the problem be better solved by not just making one race change per film?

1. Creating a brand new character written to be a specific race other than white? Isn't that why it would be worse to change a character like lucius fox to be white?

2. When they made heimdall black, they didn't solve any problems but they created one. They skipped over entirely, his relationship with Sif for the sake of diversity which was stupid. I've said it before, I wouldn't have even cared they did this; all Heimdall had to say at some point in the film, would be addressing Sif as "sister."

The case with F4 is a little different because those characters have the same last name but again, what are they gonna do? Say one of the characters is adopted? so yeah, they're altering the story more just to fit in a change of race on screen. And just like we talked about before, they picked a black actor.

3. not sure what you mean, are you saying they should make race changes a thing with films now? like a mainstream trend????

 

[MadVillainy]

I saw Kingsmen last night. Wasnt a bad movie, but i wasnt impressed. I do look forward with what they do with a sequel.
That being said I did have some thoughts. They didnt affect my opinion of the movie but it made me think.

1. John Boyega (Attack the Block, upcoming Episode VII) was up for the role of Eggsy. Kinda wouldve gave parts of the movie a different vibe.

2. Thundercrack said something sometime ago about black movies only having whites as the buffoon or villain and how it shows whites through black people's eyes. Does the same thing, only reversed, for Kingsmen?
Damn near every speaking role was played by white actors and the main/major villains were Black and Algerian. Of all the Kingsmen at the table, none of them were black from what I remember. All the recruits none of them were black. The only other ethnic characters I remember where Eggsy's friend and then one of those goons in his stepdad's gang
So by using Thundercrack's logic, is Kingsmen a "white movie"?

 

[Greens]

None of the Kingsmen were black because they're a play on the old, well off gentlemen of Britain. These people were white.

The main villain was black because... well that's the character. Why does it matter?

 

[Warhammer]

Besides, there are no such thing as white movies. You know this, man. It's only a "____ movie" if it's any of the other races. Pretty Woman is not a white movie, but if you put Gabrielle Union and Anthony Mackie in there with a little R&B in the background......see?

 

[ShadowBoxer]

Yea there is definitely racism in Hollywood and among general audiences I saw. For example, minorities go out and see movies comedy, drama, action, sci fi that have nearly all white cast members. But white people NEVER really support movies that feature prominently black actors. To them it's a "black movie" so they steer clear. The 2012 "Think Like A Man" which starred Kevin Hart and other black actors was a hit. I saw the movie twice in theaters with a packed crowd, both times was 99% black people. I saw one white person in the crowd the second time I saw it.

If Foucs didn't have Will Smith in it, who has cross over appeal, and his character was just any black actor with Margot Robbie, the movie would have really bombed as white folks probably wouldn't have gone out and seen it. Sad but true.

 

[Greens]

To them it's a "black movie" so they steer clear. The 2012 "Think Like A Man" which starred Kevin Hart and other black actors was a hit. I saw the movie twice in theaters with a packed crowd, both times was 99% black people. I saw one white person in the crowd the second time I saw it.

This doesn't account for hits like Fresh Prince of Bel-Air or The Cosby Show, though. There's all-black entertainment that is enjoyed by all races.

 

[MadVillainy]

None of the Kingsmen were black because they're a play on the old, well off gentlemen of Britain. These people were white.

The main villain was black because... well that's the character. Why does it matter?

you seem to have missed the point of my post completely

I was saying: Ive heard/read people bring up the fact that they don't go see predominately black movies because it makes them feel bad/white people are usually the villain. So I said by that logic should ethnics, minorities, or whatever be put off at seeing Kingsmen

I even alluded to the fact as to why the Kingsmen were all white in my first point about Boyega.

That's what I meant. It didn't affect my opinion of the movie it just made me think of what I have heard before.

This doesn't account for hits like Fresh Prince of Bel-Air or The Cosby Show, though. There's all-black entertainment that is enjoyed by all races.

Or even more recently, "Empire". Biggest show in how long? Mostly black cast, set in what is regarded as a black culture. And to a lesser extent, "black-ish". That's pretty popular too
I don't watch them but what about How to Get Away with Murder and Scandal. Are the casts for that mostly ethnic? I know most of the marketing revolves around black women Those are a big hit too

And the hip hop/rap music. I don't know if it's still true, but there was a time not too long ago where hip hop/rap was the most popular music genre

It's weird because that doesn't translate to movies. I don't know why.

Toward the point that I have bolded: I don't think anyone is on here is saying movies,whatever the cast, can't be enjoyed by all races. I think most people on here are arguing the opposite.
Even moving from race, let's say they made something like Think Like a Man, but with all women? Same exact movie, same quality. It would be called a chick-flick. Or even if it was all homosexuals? It would be called a gay movie.

 

[chaseter]

Demographiccccccccsssssssssssssssssssssssssss

The only color the studios see is green.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

this thread and this thread should be merged with this one. they're all talking about the exact same thing, only on a slightly smaller scale.

 

[Manic]

How about no? This thread occasionally touches on race-changing in movies, but it talks about different aspects of race in Hollywood as well.

And quite frankly, the last time I lurked in a thread about the races of characters getting changed in superhero movies, there were a lot of racism-apologists and mods threatening to ban anyone who pointed out somebody's racism.

 

[Warhammer]

I remember when people were b****ing about a Black Kingpin. I was thinking "......but it's the Kingpin..."

 

[Manic]

I've said this a million times before, but no matter what argument anyone says to the contrary, people generally give less of a crap about a character's race being changed if the character is less popular. That's why Kingpin's casting (in the older Daredevil movie) caused less of a stir than Human Torch's casting, and why Callisto's casting in X-Men 3 caused even less of a stir.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

How about no? This thread occasionally touches on race-changing in movies, but it talks about different aspects of race in Hollywood as well.

but... that was the main point of this thread man. I mean, by all means if the subject of racism in hollywood goes on to be broader but the subjects of those threads is what my OP was.

And quite frankly, the last time I lurked in a thread about the races of characters getting changed in superhero movies, there were a lot of racism-apologists and mods threatening to ban anyone who pointed out somebody's racism.

I dunno about that, this thread is about 20 pages in and I don't know if anyone's had problems with each other when discussing. it seems to be okay. the question hasn't been around as much like he used to.

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

While I still think blacks are under represented in leads, population wise I agree - Latino and Asians are the ones who are most under represented.

Just looking at upcoming Marvel & DC Superhero slate as an eg, there are at least some strong black lead Superhero projects in the works - Black Panther, Cyborg, Luke Cage, Dead Shot, and several strong secondaries already entrenched in the movie franchise Fury, Storm, Falcon, Iron Patriot, there was Blade trilogy too.
While by comparison there are absolutely NO strong Latino or Asian movie leads in the works.
Not even any secondary characters either developed or upcoming.
That is abysmal.
Other than Marvel's Shang-Chi (nope their martial arts guy will be Danny Rand) they haven't even developed any strong adult lead Asian or Latino characters in the comics themselves, to actually turn into movies.

So yeah by comparison Latino and Asians are really the most underrepresented.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

So... We won't hear you complain about them turning characters Asian or Latino?

 

[ShadowBoxer]

Sony said that The Equalizer starring Denzel didn't do well over seas because it starred a black lead actor. I am like what the heck? I thought it wasn't as racist over seas.

 

[childeroland]

Or maybe because it's an unfamiliar property to foreign audiences? Gunman straight-up bombed, but no one blames Sean Penn's skin color.

 

[Manic]

Sony said that The Equalizer starring Denzel didn't do well over seas because it starred a black lead actor. I am like what the heck? I thought it wasn't as racist over seas.

I've always gotten the impression that black Americans are generally looked down on by most people around the world, including other kinds of black people.

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

So... We won't hear you complain about them turning characters Asian or Latino?

Will we hear you? Is it ok to turn a character from white to black, but not for other ethnicity/races?

It is quite clear that population wise blacks are represented quite well compared to Asian/Latino/ other ethnicity and races. The Asian population is the largest in the world but gets hardly any representation.