• Secure your account

    A friendly reminder to our users, please make sure your account is safe. Make sure you update your password and have an active email address to recover or change your password.

  • Xenforo Cloud has scheduled an upgrade to XenForo version 2.2.16. This will take place on or shortly after the following date and time: Jul 05, 2024 at 05:00 PM (PT) There shouldn't be any downtime, as it's just a maintenance release. More info here

Eternals Rate and Review the Eternals

Thought about it some more this morning and while I still enjoyed it, I felt the romance angle between Ikaris and Sersi just felt flat. Like when I compare to Gilgamesh’s feelings toward Thena, Gilgamesh’s feelings felt authentic. Richard Madden played Ikaris so stoic that it was hard to connect that he had deep feelings for Sersi.

Gemma Chan also didn’t give much layers in her performance. She started out fine when we see her with her boyfriend, but then once he’s out of the picture, she always seems like a deer in headlights. I get she’s not supposed to be a natural leader which is why she comes off as nervous, but wish she have a stronger performance.

Agreed on Gemma Chan; I think a different actress would have been better for this film. Maybe Sofia Boutella?

I do wish Richard Madden was more charismatic in his performance which sometimes felt low energy, especially when he was acting alongside Chan. I know he’s not a CBM type actor but Ryan Gosling would have been perfect for Ikaris and he’d have really sold Ikaris from where he starts off in the film to where he ends—I think that would have really elevated the experience for casual moviegoing audiences. Maybe Chloe Zhao directing could have convinced Gosling to sign on.
 
So I managed to catch the film today after all and If I had to sum the movie up in one word it'd be "frustrating". It all comes down to the writing. They could have really improved the story if they had taken one more go at the script.

1. The way big revelations are handled.

There are two big revelations in the film. The first is that the Eternals' true mission is to facilitate the birth of new Celestials at the expense of the inhabitants of the seeded planets. Furthermore, our crew of Eternals have done this many times but their memories have been wiped each time and the Deviants are Arishem's creations gone awry. This info is just dumped on Sersi's lap. There is no build-up to it. It's not like the characters are suspecting something and then they make an effort to find out what's going on.

And when Sersi does find out and tells the others then their reactions to this revelation that their lives have essentially been a lie are so muted that the characters stop feeling human even if they did before and it robs the revelation of dramatic weight.



This is how that scene should play out. Not them calmly discussing it around the dinner table. And then our comedic relief character goes "let them die". This was the exact moment when I couldn't roll with Kingo anymore.

The second big revelation is that Ikaris killed Ajak. Once again, the other characters don't figure it out on their own by putting clues together. And the flashback is once again just dumped on us before the other characters even find out about it. Dramatic tension is yet again diminished.

2. Character motivations are a mess.

Druig and Phastos who, based on flashbacks, have a reason to not care about humanity are on Sersi's side when they should be on Ikaris'. And I know that Phastos says that he changed his mind because of his family (although it's not quite enough for him to actually take action before the others come knocking on his door) and Druig has a monologue about how humans stop being humans if their bad traits get removed but I just feel like their respective flashbacks ended up being kind of unnecessary. Because Ikaris and Kingo were the ones who were in favor of humanity getting wiped out then they should have gotten flashbacks that inform their decision. But instead they believe in Arishem because they just do.

Sprite sides with Ikaris because she's never been able to be part of humanity due to her age. Earlier in the film she questions why Arishem had to make her the way she is. There's clearly resentment there. So when she finds out that their whole mission has also been a lie, she should be the one who's most upset with Arishem. And yet she takes his side. Her anger over her situation is completely misplaced.

Kro. Instead of suggesting a team-up with the Eternas (everybody loves a team-up) he's on this fruitless quest for revenge against the Eternals even though it's Arishem who's been manipulating everyone. Same goes for the Eternals. They learn that they are both the children of Arishem but nothing comes of this. There's no "we are the same, we have been both used and pitted against each other" moment. The conflict just ends with Thena killing Kro. Incredibly unsatisfying.


This is is why I think some people can't connect with these characters. All the other aspects of the film were pretty good imo. Visually it looked great, the performances were good and the final fight was awesome. But I can't give it more than 6/10 due to the issues I had with writing. Really wish I had liked this more.
 
Last edited:
Movie was excruciating boring the deviants were awful villains worst then the dark elves I thought this weren't possible the whole tinkerbell comparison thing was cringe at its finest. Post credit scenes liked the Kit Harrington one not the musician reveal that was disappointing

3/10

Kumail Nanjiani was best part of movie everything else I already forgot easily mcu's worst for me atleast thor 2 had thor and loki.
 
I saw the reviews it was getting and was worried but once again I was reminded just because some person who writes for a site didn't like it doesn't mean I won't like it. I thought it was good. Really nailed the Celestials IMO which is a big thing for me. Movie is worth seeing just for that final scene.
 
So I managed to catch the film today after all and If I had to sum the movie up in one word it'd be "frustrating". It all comes down to the writing. They could have really improved the story if they had taken one more go at the script.

1. The way big revelations are handled.

There are two big revelations in the film. The first is that the Eternals' true mission is to facilitate the birth of new Celestials at the expense of the inhabitants of the seeded planets. Furthermore, our crew of Eternals have done this many times but their memories have been wiped each time and the Deviants are Arishem's creations gone awry. This info is just dumped on Sersi's lap. There is no build-up to it. It's not like the characters are suspecting something and then they make an effort to find out what's going on.

And when Sersi does find out and tells the others then their reactions to this revelation that their lives have essentially been a lie are so muted that the characters stop feeling human even if they did before and it robs the revelation of dramatic weight.



This is how that scene should play out. Not them calmly discussing it around the dinner table. And then our comedic relief character goes "let them die". This was the exact moment when I couldn't roll with Kingo anymore.

The second big revelation is that Ikaris killed Ajak. Once again, the other characters don't figure it out on their own by putting clues together. And the flashback is once again just dumped on us before the other characters even find out about it. Dramatic tension is yet again diminished.

2. Character motivations are a mess.

Druig and Phastos who, based on flashbacks, have a reason to not care about humanity are on Sersi's side when they should be on Ikaris'. And I know that Phastos says that he changed his mind because of his family (although it's not quite enough for him to actually take action before the others come knocking on his door) and Druig has a monologue about how humans stop being humans if their bad traits get removed but I just feel like their respective flashbacks ended up being kind of unnecessary. Because Ikaris and Kingo were the ones who were in favor of humanity getting wiped out then they should have gotten flashbacks that inform their decision. But instead they believe in Arishem because they just do.

Sprite sides with Ikaris because she's never been able to be part of humanity due to her age. Earlier in the film she questions why Arishem had to make her the way she is. There's clearly resentment there. So when she finds out that their whole mission has also been a lie, she should be the one who's most upset with Arishem. And yet she takes his side. Her anger over her situation is completely misplaced.

Kro. Instead of suggesting a team-up with the Eternas (everybody loves a team-up) he's on this fruitless quest for revenge against the Eternals even though it's Arishem who's been manipulating everyone. Same goes for the Eternals. They learn that they are both the children of Arishem but nothing comes of this. There's no "we are the same, we have been both used and pitted against each other" moment. The conflict just ends with Thena killing Kro. Incredibly unsatisfying.


This is is why I think some people can't connect with these characters. All the other aspects of the film were pretty good imo. Visually it looked great, the performances were good and the final fight was awesome. But I can't give it more than 6/10 due to the issues I had with writing. Really wish I had liked this more.


Totally agree that the
...revelation about the Eternals' true nature should have hit like an atom bomb, redefining and recontextualizing everything we've seen.

It opens up Blade Runner type themes of who's really alive and who's not. That for all their power they are automatons, little more than slaves.
How much free will do they really have and how many of their actions are just programming ? Was Ikaris and Sersi's relationship just part of their program ? Who knows ? But we'll never know because it's not developed at all, just sort of hinted at.

Really, they needed less characters- I mean, save something for the sequel....assuming there is one.
I feel like they could have ditched Dane Whitman entirely and actually made Kro a character rather than a special effect who only learns to speak in the 3rd act.

The other theme that was underdeveloped was their longevity - Highlander did a brilliant job of this. In some ways Ikaris and Sersi are far more suited to each other than Sersi and Dane ( although the actors lacked chemistry) why did they split up - because
Ikaris felt guilty about the truth of their mission ? Okay, I guess.

Really hope we haven't seen the last of Ikaris- I mean he flew into the sun, but I suppose he could always be rebuilt by Arishem

Whoops ! Quoted my self there. Sorry

I am having second thoughts about whether Zhao was the wrong choice to direct. Given her previous works, this kind of film seemed a real stretch - with the kind of sensibilities she's displayed. I mean, would you get Shane Black to direct a serious, restrained period costume drama ? Probably not.
A lot of the dialogue in the first act is pretty unnatural, I mean people ( even immortal androids) just don't talk like that - and Zhao helped write the screenplay.

On the other hand some of the visuals really stuck with me.

The film's critical failure is more Marvel Studios setting her up to fail, than a statement about Zhao as a director.

Upon a second viewing I liked it more, although it really needed to be about 30 minutes shorter.

There was a lot of stuff in the first hour and a half that they could have ditched, so when there are moments of genuine pathos in the final 40 minutes we haven't had to go through so much dross to get there.

On a second viewing the scale of the Celestials, I.e. Arishem, really hit home. He was just as imposing as the comics make him out to be.

In some ways the first hour felt like a different film, with the dialogue and acting being somewhat unnatural and forced.

All in all, balancing good and bad, I came away feeling okay about Eternals and will see it again on Disney+. What boggles my mind is that Shang Chi and Black Widow got tons of praise whereas this is actually a much better film - nobody headbutts a table, thank God.

However, I'm going to change my score from a 5 to a 6. And I stand by my assertion that it's memorable, unlike some other MCU films.
 
Last edited:
I actually liked this one. Of the three pandemic-era MCU movies so far, I feel this one is the strongest, and I'm generally not a fan of any of the Marvel properties that rely on mystical/magical stuff. I realize there are problems with it, and not a big fan of the creature designs either. But I like the ambitions of the story, the weight given to the characterizations, and a good attempt to tell an MCU story that is considerably different than the ones we've seen so far.
 
Movie was excruciating boring the deviants were awful villains worst then the dark elves I thought this weren't possible the whole tinkerbell comparison thing was cringe at its finest. Post credit scenes liked the Kit Harrington one not the musician reveal that was disappointing

3/10

Kumail Nanjiani was best part of movie everything else I already forgot easily mcu's worst for me atleast thor 2 had thor and loki.

The Deviants were pointless bad villains.
 
So I managed to catch the film today after all and If I had to sum the movie up in one word it'd be "frustrating". It all comes down to the writing. They could have really improved the story if they had taken one more go at the script.

1. The way big revelations are handled.

There are two big revelations in the film. The first is that the Eternals' true mission is to facilitate the birth of new Celestials at the expense of the inhabitants of the seeded planets. Furthermore, our crew of Eternals have done this many times but their memories have been wiped each time and the Deviants are Arishem's creations gone awry. This info is just dumped on Sersi's lap. There is no build-up to it. It's not like the characters are suspecting something and then they make an effort to find out what's going on.

And when Sersi does find out and tells the others then their reactions to this revelation that their lives have essentially been a lie are so muted that the characters stop feeling human even if they did before and it robs the revelation of dramatic weight.



This is how that scene should play out. Not them calmly discussing it around the dinner table. And then our comedic relief character goes "let them die". This was the exact moment when I couldn't roll with Kingo anymore.

The second big revelation is that Ikaris killed Ajak. Once again, the other characters don't figure it out on their own by putting clues together. And the flashback is once again just dumped on us before the other characters even find out about it. Dramatic tension is yet again diminished.

2. Character motivations are a mess.

Druig and Phastos who, based on flashbacks, have a reason to not care about humanity are on Sersi's side when they should be on Ikaris'. And I know that Phastos says that he changed his mind because of his family (although it's not quite enough for him to actually take action before the others come knocking on his door) and Druig has a monologue about how humans stop being humans if their bad traits get removed but I just feel like their respective flashbacks ended up being kind of unnecessary. Because Ikaris and Kingo were the ones who were in favor of humanity getting wiped out then they should have gotten flashbacks that inform their decision. But instead they believe in Arishem because they just do.

Sprite sides with Ikaris because she's never been able to be part of humanity due to her age. Earlier in the film she questions why Arishem had to make her the way she is. There's clearly resentment there. So when she finds out that their whole mission has also been a lie, she should be the one who's most upset with Arishem. And yet she takes his side. Her anger over her situation is completely misplaced.

Kro. Instead of suggesting a team-up with the Eternas (everybody loves a team-up) he's on this fruitless quest for revenge against the Eternals even though it's Arishem who's been manipulating everyone. Same goes for the Eternals. They learn that they are both the children of Arishem but nothing comes of this. There's no "we are the same, we have been both used and pitted against each other" moment. The conflict just ends with Thena killing Kro. Incredibly unsatisfying.


This is is why I think some people can't connect with these characters. All the other aspects of the film were pretty good imo. Visually it looked great, the performances were good and the final fight was awesome. But I can't give it more than 6/10 due to the issues I had with writing. Really wish I had liked this more.


I agree with all these points.

Also, why would Arishem just tell Sersi the whole truth without provocation? If he doesn't care, then why not tell all the Eternals the truth about their creation and purpose from the beginning? Why the subterfuge? Why does Arishem just tell Sersi everything like he expects her to follow her orders without objection? Clearly, the Celestials were concerned the Eternals would develop their own personalities and identities and could rebel agains them, so they're given fake memories and backstories.

I'm sorry but all of this is bad writing and bad storytelling no matter how you gift wrap it.

Agreed on Gemma Chan; I think a different actress would have been better for this film. Maybe Sofia Boutella?

I do wish Richard Madden was more charismatic in his performance which sometimes felt low energy, especially when he was acting alongside Chan. I know he’s not a CBM type actor but Ryan Gosling would have been perfect for Ikaris and he’d have really sold Ikaris from where he starts off in the film to where he ends—I think that would have really elevated the experience for casual moviegoing audiences. Maybe Chloe Zhao directing could have convinced Gosling to sign on.

I know Madden is capable of better, so I wonder if they were just given bad instruction and direction. I think Gemma Chan has been decent in stuff I've seen her in before, but all her best work I've seen from her were supporting roles. She's basically the lead character and emotional heart of the story and she just didn't have the charisma to get it done. Granted, a lot of the characters were very low energy here. Case in point, Angelina Jolie. Even Salma Hayek I thought was more believable in her limited screentime than Jolie and Chan.

I get that the Eternals aren't humans, but they've also lived among humanity and hid among them for centuries. I think you can make characters who are like supernatural "gods" and still make them relatable. Zao failed with that here.
 
So I managed to catch the film today after all and If I had to sum the movie up in one word it'd be "frustrating". It all comes down to the writing. They could have really improved the story if they had taken one more go at the script.

1. The way big revelations are handled.

There are two big revelations in the film. The first is that the Eternals' true mission is to facilitate the birth of new Celestials at the expense of the inhabitants of the seeded planets. Furthermore, our crew of Eternals have done this many times but their memories have been wiped each time and the Deviants are Arishem's creations gone awry. This info is just dumped on Sersi's lap. There is no build-up to it. It's not like the characters are suspecting something and then they make an effort to find out what's going on.

And when Sersi does find out and tells the others then their reactions to this revelation that their lives have essentially been a lie are so muted that the characters stop feeling human even if they did before and it robs the revelation of dramatic weight.



This is how that scene should play out. Not them calmly discussing it around the dinner table. And then our comedic relief character goes "let them die". This was the exact moment when I couldn't roll with Kingo anymore.

The second big revelation is that Ikaris killed Ajak. Once again, the other characters don't figure it out on their own by putting clues together. And the flashback is once again just dumped on us before the other characters even find out about it. Dramatic tension is yet again diminished.

2. Character motivations are a mess.

Druig and Phastos who, based on flashbacks, have a reason to not care about humanity are on Sersi's side when they should be on Ikaris'. And I know that Phastos says that he changed his mind because of his family (although it's not quite enough for him to actually take action before the others come knocking on his door) and Druig has a monologue about how humans stop being humans if their bad traits get removed but I just feel like their respective flashbacks ended up being kind of unnecessary. Because Ikaris and Kingo were the ones who were in favor of humanity getting wiped out then they should have gotten flashbacks that inform their decision. But instead they believe in Arishem because they just do.

Sprite sides with Ikaris because she's never been able to be part of humanity due to her age. Earlier in the film she questions why Arishem had to make her the way she is. There's clearly resentment there. So when she finds out that their whole mission has also been a lie, she should be the one who's most upset with Arishem. And yet she takes his side. Her anger over her situation is completely misplaced.

Kro. Instead of suggesting a team-up with the Eternas (everybody loves a team-up) he's on this fruitless quest for revenge against the Eternals even though it's Arishem who's been manipulating everyone. Same goes for the Eternals. They learn that they are both the children of Arishem but nothing comes of this. There's no "we are the same, we have been both used and pitted against each other" moment. The conflict just ends with Thena killing Kro. Incredibly unsatisfying.


This is is why I think some people can't connect with these characters. All the other aspects of the film were pretty good imo. Visually it looked great, the performances were good and the final fight was awesome. But I can't give it more than 6/10 due to the issues I had with writing. Really wish I had liked this more.


What's interesting about your comment is that I didn't like Shang Chi for kind of the same type of structural reasons you didn't like Eternals. For some reason, these same issues didn't bother me as much with Eternals, possibly due to the following:

-Eternals establishes right off the bat that this is a timey-wimey mystical mumbo jumbo MCU film, so it's easier to roll with what comes after
-Also the film is pretty much all about flashbacks and worldbuilding, so information dumps or major plot points revealed via flashback are again not as noticeable to me as major flaws
-Silly CGI monsters I've sadly come to accept following things like Avengers 1 and Shazam, otherwise good movies with video game-like battle scenes
 
OK but there's that big dump with Sersi meeting Arishem, and Arishem basically tells her the whole score without issue. That's not in a flashback. That really made no sense. Why would Arishem just tell all the secrets just like that if the Eternals could never be trusted with that information before?
 
I agree with all these points.

Also, why would Arishem just tell Sersi the whole truth without provocation? If he doesn't care, then why not tell all the Eternals the truth about their creation and purpose from the beginning? Why the subterfuge? Why does Arishem just tell Sersi everything like he expects her to follow her orders without objection? Clearly, the Celestials were concerned the Eternals would develop their own personalities and identities and could rebel agains them, so they're given fake memories and backstories.

I'm sorry but all of this is bad writing and bad storytelling no matter how you gift wrap it.



I know Madden is capable of better, so I wonder if they were just given bad instruction and direction. I think Gemma Chan has been decent in stuff I've seen her in before, but all her best work I've seen from her were supporting roles. She's basically the lead character and emotional heart of the story and she just didn't have the charisma to get it done. Granted, a lot of the characters were very low energy here. Case in point, Angelina Jolie. Even Salma Hayek I thought was more believable in her limited screentime than Jolie and Chan.

I get that the Eternals aren't humans, but they've also lived among humanity and hid among them for centuries. I think you can make characters who are like supernatural "gods" and still make them relatable. Zao failed with that here.


That spoiler section has a fair criticism.
why not either tell all the Eternals about their true purpose or none of them ? Either way, clearly Arishem could easily scoop them up and then reprogram them after an emergence.

I suppose one explanation for Arishem telling Sersi, is that he was unaware of Ajak's betrayal, and assumed whomever she had passed the orb to was also going to comply, because Ajak was.
Not great writing.

Having said that, one thing I did appreciate about the Eternals' writing was that it didn't actively **** on previous MCU stories - the way that Loki did.

What I think would have been interesting is if their defects, e.g. rebelling, falling in love, were intentionally included in their makeup by Arishem as he was experimenting with them as well.

Have to say, compared to the comics these Eternals were nowhere near as durable. In the comics they are all reasonably invulnerable and have massive healing factors. But I guess that as machines they could be replaced.
 
That spoiler section has a fair criticism.
why not either tell all the Eternals about their true purpose or none of them ? Either way, clearly Arishem could easily scoop them up and then reprogram them after an emergence.

I suppose one explanation for Arishem telling Sersi, is that he was unaware of Ajak's betrayal, and assumed whomever she had passed the orb to was also going to comply, because Ajak was.
Not great writing.

Having said that, one thing I did appreciate about the Eternals' writing was that it didn't actively **** on previous MCU stories - the way that Loki did.

What I think would have been interesting is if their defects, e.g. rebelling, falling in love, were intentionally included in their makeup by Arishem as he was experimenting with them as well.

Have to say, compared to the comics these Eternals were nowhere near as durable. In the comics they are all reasonably invulnerable and have massive healing factors. But I guess that as machines they could be replaced.

I admit those are possibilities, but it still seems iffy and awkward to me. It still seems to me all that information came far too easily for Sersi. Like in 2001, such a revelation isn't just like turn a key and "Oh you accessed the Orb. Well, here's all the secrets. Help birth my baby brother. See you in a few! BYEEEE!"
 
Last edited:
I saw the reviews it was getting and was worried but once again I was reminded just because some person who writes for a site didn't like it doesn't mean I won't like it. I thought it was good. Really nailed the Celestials IMO which is a big thing for me. Movie is worth seeing just for that final scene.

I actually liked this one. Of the three pandemic-era MCU movies so far, I feel this one is the strongest, and I'm generally not a fan of any of the Marvel properties that rely on mystical/magical stuff. I realize there are problems with it, and not a big fan of the creature designs either. But I like the ambitions of the story, the weight given to the characterizations, and a good attempt to tell an MCU story that is considerably different than the ones we've seen so far.


Have to agree with all of that.
 
I admit those are possibilities, but it still seems iffy and awkward to me. It still seems to me all that information came far too easily for Sersi. Like in 2001, such a revelation isn't just like turn a key and "Oh you accessed the Orb. Well, here's all the secrets. Help birth my baby brother. See you in a few! BYEEEE!"

It's not ideal, but at least there are semi plausible explanations ( e.g. Arishem operates on such a different level to the Eternals that he can't conceive of them disobeying - especially as the cycle has worked for millions of years. I mean to being like him, 7000 years isn't even a blink.

One big issue the film creates, for the inevitable FF series, is that it doesn't really leave much room for Galactus.

I totally agree that if the truth was harder to come by then it would have been more shocking e.g. none of the Eternals knew, but maybe somehow they accessed some of the stored memories in the forge or heck, Phastos created a device to show as holograms the memories that Thena was experiencing ( or he could connect her mind to Sprite's and she could show them ( and learned of the cycle that way. That way Thena's malfunction could have some real story purpose.
 
Well...

This film... Was made.

I've had a time with some of the bigger releases recently and for the most part I just find them to mostly be all overlong, dull, inert or just unengaging even when the best talent and the biggest budgets are used to create worlds most of us only dreamed about seeing on the big screen even 10 years ago. Black Widow had some fun characters but was lacking much of story or any urgency. What should have been far more personal and grounded story has a very over the top yet deeply by the numbers finale you'd find in a lot of CBMs which would be fine if what lead up to it outside of the characters being affable or just entertaining at what they do was something fun, or intense or... Something. Shang Chi was fine but... It didn't sing or soar much either, despite doing some great things, like making the father not really an outright "villain". Die Another Day was laborious, again just too long and with zero emotional connection, in my opinion due to the fact that despite Craig's run being about Bond as a character, since the audience never bought into the relationship between him and Seydoux which so much hinges on in terms of Bond's character... Yeah, you didn't much care about anything else. That and it's final boss villain doesn't seem to even have an agenda that makes any sense. Dune... I'm sorry but it's breathtaking in scope, a wonder of visuals, truly a master of the camera and production at work with some of Zimmer's best musical work ever... And it's a bore. It's characters are dull, dull, dull with a lack of anything we as the viewer can latch onto or truly root for and they leave us twisting in the breeze with a **** ton of information about this world out of reach.


And now... the highly awaited big screen MCU version of The Eternals falls into all the traps the talented film makers who made the previously listed did as well.

This is a very visually textured film, maybe one of the best on those terms that Marvel Studios has ever produced. We travel the world, get a plethora of settings, historical and modern. Barring the post credit scene with... A truly cheap looking Pip The Troll alongside Thanos' brother Eros, we have some pretty good VFX and Zhao and her team know how to get those just the right angles with the perfect lighting for the vast majority of this movie. Now the set pieces I feel are spaced out to far apart and the action save for a couple of scenes isn't really that much to write home about.

But a Marvel film choosing to be more somber and at least on paper less interested in bombast and paint by numbers Marvel style is not enough. The protagonists, antagonists and plot have to grab you even when you don't quite know what's going on.


But... The plot doesn't really pass the smell test and while every person in the cast is fine performer these characters in this story do not come off well. No one has any spark and I will not let this film off the hook because wooden characterization plays into the reveal that they are... robots? Androids? Cyborgs? Whatever... No. That reveal is not an excuse as to why this entire cast is wasted by a director that seemed to be at a loss for making these characters anything outside of bullet points about what kind of "slot" in these type of films they fall into and even then that wouldn't be bad but they as characters don't really pop in any way.


Now... Let us not pretend though that a failure here is some insult to the comics version. The facts are... The Eternals have always been a hard nut to crack to make it must read Marvel. In the comics their story feels like Kirby mixed in his Asgard with storylines from his uncompleted New Gods at DC and a veneer of the Ancient Aliens theories and threw it against the wall to see what sticks. It's never had a more than a niche' following despite retroconning so many elements to become cornerstone building blocks of the Marve Universe. But... they as characters dont' have the following of the X-Men or the Fantastic Four for reasons that I don't doubt have to do with the concepts being far more interesting on paper than has ever been executed in any fashion.

And that's another area where I believe the film fails, and I hope this doesn't come off as Old Man Fanboy uncomfortable with change. As stated, I don't have much of a feel for the Eternals even as again, I like the mythology and the consequencs and implications of their existence within the Marvel U. I'm not particularly attached to the comic versions of these chartacters but for a lot of these characters shaping them and the Celestial origin for the MCU closer to the books would have immediatley been a net positive for a lot of the cast and the film as a whole.

Gemma Chan is Sersi here and... I'm sorry she's flat. She has chemistry with Kit Harington's Dane Whitman and I'll say... They made me want to see the Black Knight and Sersi joining the Avengers at some point. But once they separate Sersi loses all personality outside of the going through the motions required to say lines and wait for the clapboard to tell you to stop. Well, it didn't have to be that way. Sersi is a sensualist, a hedonist even. She is immortal and beautiful and while she's not callous towards humanity and is a true hero she's still not what most would consider "leader" material and that is GREAT because in this film that would have been something. Something we've seen before a million times, sure, the irresponsible party girl learns to grow up or some such, but it would be a characterization of a type instead of the constant insistently portentious look of either fear or worred confusion that passes for defining the character sans exposition to accompany it or scenes where there is some attempt to shade these heroes and really bring them to life but which still fall flat. Hey... Maybe Sersi starts all serious and mission driven as well as looking out for humans but thousands of years of immortality take it's toll and she started down a path of excess that Ikaris just couldn't live with or understand and THAT is why they've not seen each other for so long and Sersi can feel both unfairly judged and yet heart broken at the same time. Instead she is still a mystery by the end of the movie. Other than, for the millionth time in on screen female hero types, being a "caring nurterer" who looks like Gemma Chan what is it about Sersi that Ikaris is so attracted to? Cuz... It ain't wit or a resilience of character per se. It's just... That' what the script says happens so it is a thing.

I understand that because of the concept these space godlings aren't supposed to be "just like us" completely. But can some of the reactions these characters have make some more sense logically or emotionally?

Hey Kingo... You wanna reveal to a man you claim to care for and whose been a part of your life for fifty plus years that ultimately you don't give a **** about him and his life and then just See Ya' to everyone before the finale? Cuz... If you want people to think the character is an *******... Mission accomplished. There is no greater context here to absolve the character and it's a choice that naturally doesn't sit well with the viewer, if for nothing else Kamal is such an affable screen presence in general. You want to like, hell, love Kingo, love all the characters but they either behave stangely at times or so much is played close to the vest you just feel cold to what is being said and done on the silver screen.

Hey Phastos, the "smart" Eternal... You cannot just sit out THE END OF THE WORLD.

"I don't wanna leave my family. They mean too much to me."

Well, actually then, I assume they mean very little if you gotta be cajoled into protecting them. I get there's always the rejection of the call to heroism in these stories but Phastos' situation they decided upon applying it without much thought. If his husband and child living matters to him, he'll do what needs to be done and not wait for death to arbitrarily take them from this life when he could directly intervene.


Characterization is not the only place perhaps looking more toward the comics would benefit this movie. In the MCU they certainly streamlined the Eternals concept but in doing so kinda threw out the concepts that make them actually important to the wider world and especially Earth of the Marvel U and this should have been true for this version if for nothing else it puts their mythology in the center of the more influential narrative of the MCU. I'm sorry but... Robots or whatever just makes no sense. Much less sending the same personalities back to do this job of protection for the cause of planetary extermination for millions of years. After the film lets the cat out of the bag that the Celestials are GOD, not lower case "g" but in fact... The true creators of heaven and Earth and all we see with our naked eye, that's cool beans but you've just begged the question of why go through the convolution of sending these Autobot mutha****as to clean up after the rejects from Duchovny's EVOLUTION? From Thanos' snap to powers from Doc Strange, we've seen powers applied to the craziest of circumstances. You honestly mean to tell me this God race can't, I don't know, just THINK the Deviants out of existence? Why this planet by planet piecemeal approach? I don't wanna hear that we don't really know what the Celestials can do so saying they should be able to destroy the Deviants with minimal effort is just conjecture. Fine... It's conjecture. But the movie itself lays the mantle of GODHOOD on them. I don't know precisely the ins and outs of the staggering control over the fundamental forces of the universe the Celestials would have to possess to forge planets and stars with their own two hands but if they can do that but can't literally destroy the Deviants with a thought it just seems quite arbitrary.

I'm afraid even the vaunted diversity of this cast in some ways doesn't make sense. Why is Makkari deaf? I know... And I mean this... I know how "ableist" that sounds and those who have hearing or sight issues to deal with should have their own representation. But you have to ask... Why would the magic space gods create this godling as being deaf (Plus... ASL in ancient Babylon? How can there be American sign language when there's no America yet? Nit picky? Yeah. That's what happens when the film loses the audience. You start wondering about anything other than the scene playing out in front of you. ) Why was Sprite set as a young female that would never know growing into adult hood physically? The film kinda begs these questions but there's plenty of cover for that IF you follow the comic closer. If the Eternals are not completly artificial, if they do have a culture and are off somewhere in secret breeding slowly over the centuries then you could posit all manner of explanations and justification for stuff. The Celestials experimented on humans, create the Eternals, Deviants (Mistake or not? Well... If they were a speaking counter race to the Eternals you could explore that with them as three dimensional characters.) as well as seeding the genes that will produce the Mutants and come back from time to time to "Judge" and this belief in these sky gods could be shaken even before the start of the film in the modern age by having the seeds of doubt placed long ago by things like Eternals being born in ways where they aren't "perfect" the way the Celestial cosmology they were born into tells them.

Speaking of the mutants... I'm sorry but they had the perfect chance to give us some inkling of the origins of Mutants with the Celestials as being ultimately responsible. But in this film there's not anything to give us the idea that the Celestials have been futzing with human's genetic template in any way. This could have been the one stop shop for anwers about Mutants we've been thirsting years now for and we got a big fat goose egg in place of that. I am more than aware that they don't have to follow the books in exacting detail. But when the changes muddy the waters and nothing emotionally grabbing is done with the characters then maybe some going back to the source for some ideas to further hone rather than reject outright is a good idea.

And I will finally add this about the movie proper... Yes this film, like the movies I wrote about at the top, is too long for what they give us. And it's because of that I don't think the improvements or aspects I wanted would make these already bloated productions any more unweildy because as is, right now, they don't do much with their characters to make you care despite all those over 2 hour run times. This was not because there was no room for better or more expanded script material. They had the room obviously, they just chose keep it all beautiful but hollow, which decribes this film to a T.


As for the ending? I understood Ikaris, what they were going for but I felt nothing but a little bummed by what happened with him and that idea is actually pretty good. But you never really know or care for Ikaris so locking his controls straight for the sun didn't affect me other than thinking, "Cool... Dane can swoop in easy now." The most interesting as a super hero fan parts of this film were the two post credits. Happy to at least hear Ali and yeah... I thought for some reason they were gonna link the Ebony blade to Vamps and looks like I might be right. And the Starfox Pip post cred sent my inner 14 yr old over the moon even as I asked all kind of questions cuz... Eros is Thanos' brother... Both offshoot Eternals. So... Eternals can breed despite being essentially advanced automotons? Yeah, we buy that **** all the time. Look at Vison and Wanda. Still the original conception gives the characters a more believable and relatable justification when they are a true, biological race.

This was not an offensively bad film. But it was not a truly entertaining one either. I'm surprising myself because I think that the proceedings here and in Shang Chi might actually have been imporoved or at least made generally more entertaining if the characters indeed possessed more of the standard by now Marvel Humor. Because it seems to me now we have a film that sort of proves what I've been saying about the more mediocre Marvel product they've put out over the years. At times it seems they do put more thought and care into crafting the "jokes" and not so much into making a compelling plot or characters that have more than a life than just checking off Marvel Movie Cliche' #174. And when you do clear the board of all that every five minute a joke formula... You actually aren't left with much at all.
 
I agree with all these points.

Also, why would Arishem just tell Sersi the whole truth without provocation? If he doesn't care, then why not tell all the Eternals the truth about their creation and purpose from the beginning? Why the subterfuge? Why does Arishem just tell Sersi everything like he expects her to follow her orders without objection? Clearly, the Celestials were concerned the Eternals would develop their own personalities and identities and could rebel agains them, so they're given fake memories and backstories.

I'm sorry but all of this is bad writing and bad storytelling no matter how you gift wrap it.



I know Madden is capable of better, so I wonder if they were just given bad instruction and direction. I think Gemma Chan has been decent in stuff I've seen her in before, but all her best work I've seen from her were supporting roles. She's basically the lead character and emotional heart of the story and she just didn't have the charisma to get it done. Granted, a lot of the characters were very low energy here. Case in point, Angelina Jolie. Even Salma Hayek I thought was more believable in her limited screentime than Jolie and Chan.

I get that the Eternals aren't humans, but they've also lived among humanity and hid among them for centuries. I think you can make characters who are like supernatural "gods" and still make them relatable. Zao failed with that here.

YES to everything in spoilers.
 
I'm afraid even the vaunted diversity of this cast in some ways doesn't make sense. Why is Makkari deaf? I know... And I mean this... I know how "ableist" that sounds and those who have hearing or sight issues to deal with should have their own representation. But you have to ask... Why would the magic space gods create this godling as being deaf (Plus... ASL in ancient Babylon? How can there be American sign language when there's no America yet? Nit picky? Yeah. That's what happens when the film loses the audience. You start wondering about anything other than the scene playing out in front of you. ) Why was Sprite set as a young female that would never know growing into adult hood physically? The film kinda begs these questions but there's plenty of cover for that IF you follow the comic closer. If the Eternals are not completly artificial, if they do have a culture and are off somewhere in secret breeding slowly over the centuries then you could posit all manner of explanations and justification for stuff. The Celestials experimented on humans, create the Eternals, Deviants (Mistake or not? Well... If they were a speaking counter race to the Eternals you could explore that with them as three dimensional characters.) as well as seeding the genes that will produce the Mutants and come back from time to time to "Judge" and this belief in these sky gods could be shaken even before the start of the film in the modern age by having the seeds of doubt placed long ago by things like Eternals being born in ways where they aren't "perfect" the way the Celestial cosmology they were born into tells them.

You know, I’ve been wondering this myself. If in the end they’re just autonomous robots, how does making them diverse serve any purpose within the context of the film? Why would a celestial care about “representation” when their sole purpose is to hunt Deviants? How does making one Eternal deaf serve any advantage within the context of the movie? Unless she became deaf later on in life? Did they ever provide an explanation?
 
You know, I’ve been wondering this myself. If in the end they’re just autonomous robots, how does making them diverse serve any purpose within the context of the film? Why would a celestial care about “representation” when their sole purpose is to hunt Deviants? How does making one Eternal deaf serve any advantage within the context of the movie? Unless she became deaf later on in life? Did they ever provide an explanation?

With the diversity argument, I assume you're referring to mainly to Makkari's being deaf. Remember she's not deaf in the same way humans are deaf; she can basically "hear" with vibration-sensing abilities that are beyond even Matt Murdock's. If you're designing a team of genetically engineered warrior-protectors, having one team member who can be free from the distraction of random white noise, immune to sonic attacks, and can concentrate on danger that someone with only a human level of sensory awareness would not perceive would be useful. Also, it could be a way of protecting her from sonic booms she might create by running past the sound barrier.
 
They should not have used Neil Gaiman's take on the Eternals themselves, and stuck to Kirby's. I also would rather there have been a war between the deviants and Eternals. I wanted to see the celestials create the Eternals and Deviants from the lifeforms on Earth. Also the deviants just being mindless creatures with only one intelligent member was bad. I liked learning more about the celestials, did not like that we didn't get to see the various celestial host throughout time.
 
With the diversity argument, I assume you're referring to mainly to Makkari's being deaf. Remember she's not deaf in the same way humans are deaf; she can basically "hear" with vibration-sensing abilities that are beyond even Matt Murdock's. If you're designing a team of genetically engineered warrior-protectors, having one team member who can be free from the distraction of random white noise, immune to sonic attacks, and can concentrate on danger that someone with only a human level of sensory awareness would not perceive would be useful. Also, it could be a way of protecting her from sonic booms she might create by running past the sound barrier.

Thanks for the clarification! That makes more sense now.
 
With the diversity argument, I assume you're referring to mainly to Makkari's being deaf. Remember she's not deaf in the same way humans are deaf; she can basically "hear" with vibration-sensing abilities that are beyond even Matt Murdock's. If you're designing a team of genetically engineered warrior-protectors, having one team member who can be free from the distraction of random white noise, immune to sonic attacks, and can concentrate on danger that someone with only a human level of sensory awareness would not perceive would be useful. Also, it could be a way of protecting her from sonic booms she might create by running past the sound barrier.

I honestly don't remember them stating this in the film.
 
You know, I’ve been wondering this myself. If in the end they’re just autonomous robots, how does making them diverse serve any purpose within the context of the film? Why would a celestial care about “representation” when their sole purpose is to hunt Deviants? How does making one Eternal deaf serve any advantage within the context of the movie? Unless she became deaf later on in life? Did they ever provide an explanation?

With the diversity argument, I assume you're referring to mainly to Makkari's being deaf. Remember she's not deaf in the same way humans are deaf; she can basically "hear" with vibration-sensing abilities that are beyond even Matt Murdock's. If you're designing a team of genetically engineered warrior-protectors, having one team member who can be free from the distraction of random white noise, immune to sonic attacks, and can concentrate on danger that someone with only a human level of sensory awareness would not perceive would be useful. Also, it could be a way of protecting her from sonic booms she might create by running past the sound barrier.

Thanks for the clarification! That makes more sense now.

I honestly don't remember them stating this in the film.


Hi folks. In a world of Twitter feuds and polarized viewpoints it's refreshing to hear a civilized discussion, bravo to you all- so refreshing that I have to weigh in

1. Diversity: Heres my take .....okay, so the Eternals land around 5000BC. By then a bunch of population groups have evolved bearing racial characteristics we'd recognize today.
( e.g. Asian folk in China, Black folk in Africa, white folk in Europe etc. I know that's a massive simplification but you know what I'm saying)

Anyway, as well as hunting Deviants the Eternals keep an eye on and interact with intelligent species I.e. humans. Therefore it makes sense to have an array of Eternal models who facilitate interaction more easily - because they look like the people they're contacting.

Of course there are some glaring omissions there - nobody of North/South American first nations appearance and nobody really Middle Eastern- which is weird ( was Makaari supposed to be Middle Eastern?), given that they landed in Babylon. Wonder I'd Nebuchadnezzar was an Eternal?

So in that sense I see the diversity angle making sense.

2. Makaari's deafness . At first this made no sense because at face value why would you make a super android with a disability ? Makaari explains in the film that she can sense vibrations and someone suggested that the deafness is to insulate her from sonic booms.

There are some problems with that:
1) sensing vibrations and making meaning from them as sounds ....that's how hearing works, so if Makaari can do that then effectively she isn't actually deaf.

2) we see her moves at speed across the world and in close proximity to other Eternals, the pressure wave from her moving so fast doesn't deafen or damage them or her or visibly damage the environment. She seems to have the same conventional ability that other superspeedsters have, to mitigate the catastrophic effects of moving that speed at ground level (e.g. what about the heat/friction effects?)- or the writers were too dumb to think of this.

Also, sonic booms occur behind the fast moving objects, part of the reason fighter pilots flying supersonic aren't deafness by them.

Either way the sonic boom explanation doesn't seem to work

So, what we can actually say is that Makaari isn't actually deaf, although she is mute. Take a moment and you'll see that this makes zero sense.

As such, while the diverse cast makes sense marketing Makaari as deaf seems a bit of cynical box ticking to me or just an example of writers not thinking things through.
 
If Arishem is operating on a higher level that he never suspected the Eternals would disobey them then it makes no sense why the Eternals are given false memories and a fake backstory to make them believe they have a grander purpose and are interstellar demigod protectors from Olympia.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Staff online

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
200,698
Messages
21,788,587
Members
45,617
Latest member
SuperheroWoman
Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"