Justice League Ray Fisher - WB Investigation Updates Thread

[SupermanFan]

You can’t just come out and accuse someone of racism without saying what they did. Anyone could do that.

Ray is now moaning about been removed from the Flash now too when he said he’d never work with Hamada again?

Also these fans claiming they’ll boycott the Flash are hypocrites. They blame WB but then claim Warner Media are the ones in charge when it suits them. They told Ray to move on yet they’ll all support the Snyder Cut. A>E when it suits

Ray move on

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Was there any realistic situation where he wasn't removed from The Flash for publicly refusing to work with Hamada? I'm aware there's nuances to that because of how retaliatory it looks, but he did functionally quit if not in the strictest definition of the term.

 

[TheVileOne]

You can’t just come out and accuse someone of racism without saying what they did. Anyone could do that.

Ray is now moaning about been removed from the Flash now too when he said he’d never work with Hamada again?

Also these fans claiming they’ll boycott the Flash are hypocrites. They blame WB but then claim Warner Media are the ones in charge when it suits them. They told Ray to move on yet they’ll all support the Snyder Cut. A>E when it suits

Ray move on

I'm not saying he's lying, but if you are going to accuse Geoff Johns of "blatant racism" I'm going to need more to go on than that.

It doesn't even have to be an audio recording, at least give us your own personal recounting of events.

Also, just FYI, Geoff Johns is the reason Ray Fisher even got a part as Cyborg in Justice League in the first place. Geoff Johns is the reason Cyborg was in the Justice League movie. The irony is ironic.

 

[TheVileOne]

Was there any realistic situation where he wasn't removed from The Flash for publicly refusing to work with Hamada? I'm aware there's nuances to that because of how retaliatory it looks, but he did functionally quit if not in the strictest definition of the term.

You can't quit me! I'm fired!

I'm not sure what he expected to happen here.

 

[SupermanFan]

I'm not saying he's lying, but if you are going to accuse Geoff Johns of "blatant racism" I'm going to need more to go on than that.

It doesn't even have to be an audio recording, at least give us your own personal recounting of events.

Also, just FYI, Geoff Johns is the reason Ray Fisher even got a part as Cyborg in Justice League in the first place. Geoff Johns is the reason Cyborg was in the Justice League movie. The irony is ironic.

Yeah exactly, anyone can say something happened but if they don’t provide details then how can we really support them. For all we know it could have been a misunderstanding. This is why I won’t light the torches and pick up a pitchfork he constantly provides no detail and I’m supposed to just go with what he’s saying?

 

[kguillou]

Truth is. if Ray gives specifics in public, the lawyers come at him full force and he knows it and he knows he cant fight that. For Fisher, I believe using this public forum is his way of telling WB brass, “ok if you wont listen to me lets see what the people say,” and it puts pressure on them. Whedon’s taken a serious black eye from this so in Fisher’s eyes this approach is working.

But on the same token by putting it in public and not giving details he is asking for a lot of blind faith. And thats where people have the right to be skeptical and question him. I guess you could follow the logic of why would this young black actor willingly torpedo his acting career over stuff thats no true?

 

[Da-Scribe]

Was there any realistic situation where he wasn't removed from The Flash for publicly refusing to work with Hamada? I'm aware there's nuances to that because of how retaliatory it looks, but he did functionally quit if not in the strictest definition of the term.

Nah you can’t call that quitting. And even if you could he’s doing it because he believes Hamada is too toxic to work with. It could still be considered a termination in that respect. This would require a separate investigation into Hamada though and Warner doesn’t seem interested.

 

[SupermanFan]

Truth is. if Ray gives specifics in public, the lawyers come at him full force and he knows it and he knows he cant fight that. For Fisher, I believe using this public forum is his way of telling WB brass, “ok if you wont listen to me lets see what the people say,” and it puts pressure on them. Whedon’s taken a serious black eye from this so in Fisher’s eyes this approach is working.

But on the same token by putting it in public and not giving details he is asking for a lot of blind faith. And thats where people have the right to be skeptical and question him. I guess you could follow the logic of why would this young black actor willingly torpedo his acting career over stuff thats no true?

He wants to be careful then, you can’t just accuse someone of racism. If not true it’s slander.

Also what’s it been saved for? The investigation is over.

 

[TheVileOne]

Truth is. if Ray gives specifics in public, the lawyers come at him full force and he knows it and he knows he cant fight that. For Fisher, I believe using this public forum is his way of telling WB brass, “ok if you wont listen to me lets see what the people say,” and it puts pressure on them. Whedon’s taken a serious black eye from this so in Fisher’s eyes this approach is working.

But on the same token by putting it in public and not giving details he is asking for a lot of blind faith. And thats where people have the right to be skeptical and question him. I guess you could follow the logic of why would this young black actor willingly torpedo his acting career over stuff thats no true?

None of that makes any sense. NDAs don't protect any legal crimes being committed in the work place.

He's also giving pretty specific declarations about Hamada. How are lawyers not getting involved over those comments? Which I'd say are pretty serious.

Truth is. if Ray gives specifics in public, the lawyers come at him full force and he knows it and he knows he cant fight that. For Fisher, I believe using this public forum is his way of telling WB brass, “ok if you wont listen to me lets see what the people say,” and it puts pressure on them. Whedon’s taken a serious black eye from this so in Fisher’s eyes this approach is working.

But on the same token by putting it in public and not giving details he is asking for a lot of blind faith. And thats where people have the right to be skeptical and question him. I guess you could follow the logic of why would this young black actor willingly torpedo his acting career over stuff thats no true?

"From my point of view, the Jedi are evil!"

 

[SupermanFan]

I know for sure on Twitter too a lot of the people defending him do so because of what films he was in with a certain director. I bet if this were an actor not associated at all with Zack that a lot of these people would be asking for proof and evidence.

 

[TheVileOne]

All I'm asking for is a more detailed account of what took place.

What I think probably happened. Now let me preface, I am merely spitballing based off what's been reported in the media and voiced. Geoff Johns probably called him into his office and told him to get on board with Whedon's reshoots and to play ball. Now, maybe Fisher had valid concerns he was trying to voice to Geoff Johns and Jon Berg that weren't getting proper attention. That's possible. But the execs probably felt a lot of pressure to deliver with this movie and have everyone on the same page.

Now, did someone give Fisher, you do this or you'll never work in this town again speech? Also possible. How that would hold up legally is up to the courts.

The investigation was a farce and here's why. It was all behind closed doors. WB didn't reveal any of the findings. They didn't publicly reveal any of the actions that were taken. They only said remedial action was taken. How can we even take that seriously if we don't know what happened or what took place?

Was the investigation truly unbiased? Was it unimpeded? What was even the point of the investigation if we don't even know anything?

 

[SupermanFan]

If he reveals what happens and it’s bad I’ll gladly support him but until that day comes I’m not supporting him or cancelling anyone. Tbh the truth as alwyas will be somewhere in the middle as Elizabeth Shue said in S3 of Cobra Kai.

 

[TheVileOne]

If he reveals what happens and it’s bad I’ll gladly support him but until that day comes I’m not supporting him or cancelling anyone. Tbh the truth as alwyas will be somewhere in the middle as Elizabeth Shue said in S3 of Cobra Kai.

Daniel is a scumbag and lied about his breakup with Ali! Daniel is and always will be a toxic bully! He bullied Johnny too!

James Cameron has had a reputation for being a perfectionist and very authoritative on set. Like from watching the Abyss documentary, he doesn't seem to have time for jokes or tolerating goofing off.

Also this:

The Unsinkable Kate Winslet

 

[SupermanFan]

Daniel is a scumbag and lied about his breakup with Ali! Daniel is and always will be a toxic bully! He bullied Johnny too!

James Cameron has had a reputation for being a perfectionist and very authoritative on set. Like from watching the Abyss documentary, he doesn't seem to have time for jokes or tolerating goofing off.

Also this:

The Unsinkable Kate Winslet

My opinion on this whole thing is, Whedon, Johns & everyone were working within tight timescales (which was WBs fault) and Ray wasn’t happy about his role getting cut down (even though everyone was in the same boat) and I think it led to clashes between those guys and him. So things probably got heated. It was a horrible situation that had no winners. Yeah some people are ********s that’s life.

 

[Aurakles]

“The people that have shared their stories with me have put themselves at great risk, both personally and professionally. I will protect them at any cost,” Fisher said. “Hollywood is one of the most retaliatory businesses in the world. One word of you being “difficult” or “uncooperative” could be the end of your career, especially if you’re black.”

This is why he's not giving out full details, because it's not just his story.
Other people have spoken to him and asked him not to reveal their identities. Should he break their trust, publicly reveal things told in confidence and risk these peoples livelihoods to satisfy our curiosity?

Every time I see the phrase "doesn't know how Hollywood works" a chill goes down my spine. The idea that abuse should be excused because it is built into a system is horrifying.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Wait... so he claimed he refused to work for WB again because of Hamada and NOW he claims/moans he was removed from THE FLASH?

What exactly does this guy want?

- The new team at WB has apologised for what happened.
- WB instigated an internal AND external investigation that is now completed.
- The main culprit (Whedon) has lost a TV show and Berg/Johns no longer works at the film divison.
- WB handed his boy Snyder $70 million dollars to release his original vision, giving Fisher more exposure.
- Fisher refuses to work with Hamada on principal, so WB naturally removes Cyborg from the script of The Flash (when they could have been spiteful and recast).

Enough is enough. I truly hope WB ignore any and all future petty comments from this guy. Let him bleat away on social media until the press/fans lose interest.

Best of luck to him, but this is quickly turning into a sad sap/give me relevance routine and that's simply not a good look. I mean, what ELSE could WB do? Get on their knees and beg for forgiveness the 10th time publicly?

 

[DarkKnight88]

Also this:

The Unsinkable Kate Winslet

Kate Winslet Joins ‘Avatar’ Sequels For ‘Titanic’ Reunion With James Cameron – Deadline

What this all means is Ray Fisher and Hamada may work together again some day lol

 

[BaelaTargaryen]

Ray Fisher Confirms He's Been Removed from 'The Flash' Cast - Variety

WarnerMedia, the parent company of Warner Bros., disputed Fisher’s claims that it had pushed him out of the role, noting that he had previously publicly refused to work with Hamada.

“Last summer, Mr. Fisher was offered the opportunity to reprise his role as Cyborg in ‘The Flash,'” WarnerMedia said in a statement. “Given his statement that he will not participate in any film associated with Mr. Hamada, our production is now moving on.”

WarnerMedia also denied that it had parted ways with Geoff Johns, the former DC head and producer, who Fisher had claimed was exiting the company following its investigation into the actor’s allegations of misconduct on “Justice League,”

“Warner Bros. remains in business with Geoff Johns who continues to produce ‘Stargirl,’ ‘Batwoman,’ ‘Doom Patrol,’ ‘Superman & Lois,’ and ‘Titans’ for the studio, among other projects,” the studio added.

The news of Fisher’s official departure from the next film in the DC extended universe comes as part of an ongoing back and forth between the actor and the studio, after an investigation into Fisher’s claims of on-set misconduct by “Justice League” co-writer Joss Whedon and “enabling” behavior by writer-producer Geoff Johns and producer Jon Berg was launched in August 2020.

Throughout the investigation and since, Fisher has consistently spoken out about his claims via social media. In this latest post, Fisher reiterated claims of misconduct by Johns and he accused Hamada of protecting Johns and Whedon by hampering the studio’s investigation into his allegations.

Hamada was not in charge of DC Films during production of “Justice League.” He took over as head in January 2018, two months after “Justice League” bombed at the box office. However, Fisher says Hamada has failed to take his claims that the Whedon-led reshoots of the film were rife with mistreatment. Whedon assumed the director’s chair after original filmmaker Zack Snyder departed the production due to the death of his daughter.

Ann Sarnoff, chair and CEO, WarnerMedia Studios and Networks Group, defended Hamada.

“I believe in Walter Hamada and that he did not impede or interfere in the investigation,” Sarnoff said in a statement. “Furthermore, I have full confidence in the investigation’s process and findings. Walter is a well-respected leader, known by his colleagues, peers, and me as a man of great character and integrity. As I said in Walter’s recent deal extension announcement, I’m excited about where he’s taking DC Films and look forward to working with him and the rest of the team to build out the DC Multiverse.”

The investigation into Fisher’s allegations wrapped up in December, with Warners releasing a statement, reading: “WarnerMedia’s investigation into the ‘Justice League’ movie has concluded and remedial action has been taken.” On Thursday morning, WarnerMedia reiterated that message.

“As has been previously stated, an extensive investigation was conducted by an outside law firm, led by a former federal judge who has assured WarnerMedia that there were no impediments to the investigation,” the statement read.

 

[kguillou]

“The people that have shared their stories with me have put themselves at great risk, both personally and professionally. I will protect them at any cost,” Fisher said. “Hollywood is one of the most retaliatory businesses in the world. One word of you being “difficult” or “uncooperative” could be the end of your career, especially if you’re black.”

This is why he's not giving out full details, because it's not just his story.
Other people have spoken to him and asked him not to reveal their identities. Should he break their trust, publicly reveal things told in confidence and risk these peoples livelihoods to satisfy our curiosity?

Every time I see the phrase "doesn't know how Hollywood works" a chill goes down my spine. The idea that abuse should be excused because it is built into a system is horrifying.

It's tough, man. There's no easy answers with this. Look, I think one thing we can safely surmise is that Joss was a problem on set. His recent exit from WB plus what Fisher claimed Hamada said about him I think validates Fisher's initial claim that he was "toxic" and "abusive." Plus we have Gal's recent claim that she took up her issues with him to WB brass and "handled it there." So, I think that's enough to piece together that Whedon was an issue during reshoots.

Now, I think the remaining issue is that for Fisher, Whedon was a symptom of a larger cancer that he is attempting to surgically remove from Warner Bros' hiearchy of power. And that, is a VERY tall order but one that Ray seems willing to go the distance for. He got Whedon out, he got Berg out, he's now slowly chipping away at Geoff Johns' public image and now also going after Hamada protecting him even though Hamada had no direct hand in Justice League. From the outside looking in, it could come off that Ray is on a witch hunt and won't ever be satisfied despite the fact that he got two powerful people excised already.

 

[Aurakles]

It's tough, man. There's no easy answers with this. Look, I think one thing we can safely surmise is that Joss was a problem on set. His recent exit from WB plus what Fisher claimed Hamada said about him I think validates Fisher's initial claim that he was "toxic" and "abusive." Plus we have Gal's recent claim that she took up her issues with him to WB brass and "handled it there." So, I think that's enough to piece together that Whedon was an issue during reshoots.

Now, I think the remaining issue is that for Fisher, Whedon was a symptom of a larger cancer that he is attempting to surgically remove from Warner Bros' hiearchy of power. And that, is a VERY tall order but one that Ray seems willing to go the distance for. He got Whedon out, he got Berg out, he's now slowly chipping away at Geoff Johns' public image and now also going after Hamada protecting him even though Hamada had no direct hand in Justice League. From the outside looking in, it could come off that Ray is on a witch hunt and won't ever be satisfied despite the fact that he got two powerful people excised already.

If we accept the premise that Whedon was abusive, then along with that comes the question of why nothing was done about it. A system which allows abuse and covers up for abusers is a much bigger problem than a solitary bad director.

 

[SupermanFan]

I’d be interested to know what Geoff Johns stance is on been labelled a racist, if Fisher doesn’t have actual proof then Johns could sue him.

 

[TheVileOne]

I’d be interested to know what Geoff Johns stance is on been labelled a racist, if Fisher doesn’t have actual proof then Johns could sue him.

Johns has stayed silent on this and that's what he is going to continue to do, and that's likely what his legal counsel have told him to do.

Johns would only have legal grounds to sue Ray Fisher if he can prove legal damages.

Damages from slander have to be proven by the party suing the other.

In other words, in a court of law, Johns would have to prove Fisher's comments have caused him irreparable damage. As far as we can see, they have not. He's still working at DC Comics, and he was already gone from his DC Films role before all this came out.

 

[kguillou]

I mean if i were Johns and I were innocent i would be furious and wanna sue this guy into the ground anyway at this point. The fact that he has not defended himself either means 1) hes got skeletons in his closet or 2) his legal counsel is advising to wait until Ray makes specific allegations.

 

[Schlosser85]

Wait... so he claimed he refused to work for WB again because of Hamada and NOW he claims/moans he was removed from THE FLASH?

What exactly does this guy want?

- The new team at WB has apologised for what happened.
- WB instigated an internal AND external investigation that is now completed.
- The main culprit (Whedon) has lost a TV show and Berg/Johns no longer works at the film divison.
- WB handed his boy Snyder $70 million dollars to release his original vision, giving Fisher more exposure.
- Fisher refuses to work with Hamada on principal, so WB naturally removes Cyborg from the script of The Flash (when they could have been spiteful and recast).

Enough is enough. I truly hope WB ignore any and all future petty comments from this guy. Let him bleat away on social media until the press/fans lose interest.

Best of luck to him, but this is quickly turning into a sad sap/give me relevance routine and that's simply not a good look. I mean, what ELSE could WB do? Get on their knees and beg for forgiveness the 10th time publicly?

They should have been ignoring him all along. They already seemingly made large concessions that further emboldened him ("if you give a mouse a cookie, it's gonna want a glass of milk". They should have gone on lockdown as far as he was concerned and acted like he didn't exist the whole time.

 

[Primal Slayer]

If we accept the premise that Whedon was abusive, then along with that comes the question of why nothing was done about it. A system which allows abuse and covers up for abusers is a much bigger problem than a solitary bad director.

Whedons abuse was likely the same as various actors (Christian Bale). If you're a big name then people will turn a blind eye. Not saying it's right but that is Hollywood and they'll continue to accept it. Its been a known issue since Hollywood started.

Im surprised WB was as blunt as they were. Ray kind of handed them that response on a silver platter (until he claims he was written out before his statement)