Justice League Ray Fisher - WB Investigation Updates Thread

[KalvinEllis]

So far noone who has said something has helped themselves. Berg with the Booyah, Whedon after he was accused of changing the color of the non-white actors, WB itself about Fisher not-cooperating with the investigation. None of them saying something did anything good for them, it was only being ridiculed. Hamada has people like Ann Sarnoff backing him up, so unless she's accused of being another enabler, I don't see anything happen to him, or Emmerich.

 

[KalvinEllis]

Here's what I never really understood, if Whedon indeed reshot about 2/3 of the movie in a matter of weeks, how did any of them even have time for "creative differences". How do you reshoot basically the entire movie and still find the time to be at each other's throats the whole damn time.

 

[Da-Scribe]

Here's what I never really understood, if Whedon indeed reshot about 2/3 of the movie in a matter of weeks, how did any of them even have time for "creative differences". How do you reshoot basically the entire movie and still find the time to be at each other's throats the whole damn time.

That’s a ton of work in very little time. The amount of stress you’d be under, even the greatest collaborators would find themselves at odds at some point. But we know that ain’t Whedon.

 

[Greenlite]

Here's what I never really understood, if Whedon indeed reshot about 2/3 of the movie in a matter of weeks, how did any of them even have time for "creative differences". How do you reshoot basically the entire movie and still find the time to be at each other's throats the whole damn time.

It's easy.

Whedon: I had this scene where Hulk fell onto Black Widow's boobs, the audience loved it.

Ben: No they didn't.

Ray: Zack would never do that.

Whedon: Did your batman movie crack 1.5 billion at the box office? I don't give a F about Zack, he's not the director anymore. Now Gal go lie down.

Gal: dafuq no.

Whedon: hey stunt girl if you want to keep the job then go lie down right now. Ezra lie on top of her

Ezra: Sure!

There's always time for drama. I haven't even fan fictioned the Booya part yet

 

[chintai80]

It's easy.

Whedon: I had this scene where Hulk fell onto Black Widow's boobs, the audience loved it.

Ben: No they didn't.

Ray: Zack would never do that.

Whedon: Did your batman movie crack 1.5 billion at the box office? I don't give a F about Zack, he's not the director anymore. Now Gal go lie down.

Gal: dafuq no.

Whedon: hey stunt girl if you want to keep the job then go lie down right now. Ezra lie on top of her

Ezra: Sure!

There's always time for drama. I haven't even fan fictioned the Booya part yet

lol i'm sure this is exactly how it almost went down.

 

[emc5466]

Can you imagine Ray Fisher on a Werner Herzog set?

Fisher :”Werner, I’ve brought you some script notes because I must admit I don’t like the dialogue as written.”

Herzog: “I would rather be torn apart by wild animals than read anything created by you. Remove yourself from my sight before I lower my head and charge.”

 

[Black Narcissus]

I mean, we still don't know all the details, but when you have folks like Momoa saying something bad went down on set and Gal taking her issues all the way to the top, says it all to me. Tis' the reason Whedon ain't fighting back. He knows all them details would come out.

Also, a good creative writer-director would take their talent suggestions into account. Said talent has been this character for x amount of years, ''I think he would do this, he would say that, that doesn't work, ok, let's try this and that etc. I don't see Fisher being difficult here. RDJ was so angry with Fincher about doing so damn much takes, that he started peeing in bottles and leaving them on set on purpose. Batfleck shut down production on Gone Girl for three days cause he wouldnt wear a New York Yankees cap. Plenty more examples.

 

[Eddie Dean]

Can you imagine Ray Fisher on a Werner Herzog set?

Fisher :”Werner, I’ve brought you some script notes because I must admit I don’t like the dialogue as written.”

Herzog: “I would rather be torn apart by wild animals than read anything created by you. Remove yourself from my sight before I lower my head and charge.”

Herzog is actually super respectful of actors, as long as you don't try to kill him.

 

[Black Narcissus]

Herzog is actually super respectful of actors, as long as you don't try to kill him.

And he saved Joaquin Phoenix in a car crash. Bizarre but look it up.

 

[SupermanFan]

I think some of the defense is coming from people who think that people are automatically dismissing Fisher. It goes both ways. It does seem to me that some are bending into a pretzel to diminish what Fisher is saying or trying to get achieved.

That goes both ways though

 

[KalvinEllis]

Big no-no to bring up the "both ways" thing on this thread.

 

[Aurakles]

Herzog is actually super respectful of actors, as long as you don't try to kill him.

Love the story of the Amazon tribe offering to kill Kinski for him.

 

[SupermanFan]

Big no-no to bring up the "both ways" thing on this thread.

Don’t take this the wrong way but I don’t care, I’m not the sort of person who keeps my opinions to myself, I’m an open book and I call things as I see them.

 

[KalvinEllis]

Don’t take this the wrong way but I don’t care, I’m not the sort of person who keeps my opinions to myself, I’m an open book and I call things as I see them.

I'd like to think of myself that way too, but this thread is kind of tricky. Lord knows that thinking for myself here and trying to see it from both sides has given me little more than ridicule, bad attempts at sarcasm or blatant assumptions about my belief system. Someone even tried to pretend once that they knew better what goes on inside my head than I did. All of this for not taking every single thing this man says at face value and I've never even insinuated that he could be a liar or attention seeker, let alone tried to mock him in any way. Didn't matter one bit. This stuff just wears you down.

 

[SupermanFan]

I'd like to think of myself that way too, but this thread is kind of tricky. Lord knows that thinking for myself here and trying to see it from both sides has given me little more than ridicule, bad attempts at sarcasm or blatant assumptions about my belief system. Someone even tried to pretend once that they knew better what goes on inside my head than I did. All of this for not taking every single thing this man says at face value and I've never even insinuated that he could be a liar or attention seeker, let alone tried to mock him in any way. Didn't matter one bit. This stuff just wears you down.

I find the whole thing exhausting, I will still maintain whether we find out facts and truths of everything or not that this all should have been dealt with in private anyway. I don’t think Fisher or WB have handled any of it well.

 

[B]

I find the whole thing exhausting, I will still maintain whether we find out facts and truths of everything or not that this all should have been dealt with in private anyway. I don’t think Fisher or WB have handled any of it well.

This is presumably why Fisher made it public, because it wasn't being dealt with internally & in private.. or at least not in a manner he considered acceptable. So making it public basically put more pressure on all parties involved to start taking it more seriously as opposed to sweeping it under the rug.. & it's worked, it forced WB to conduct a proper investigation into the misconduct.

It's an age old tactic that's been used for years when people are involved in a dispute with an entity that has a bigger voice/reputation than themselves. You inform the papers, local news & they eat those stories of mistreatment right up. In Ray's case he broadcast it on Twitter, which was just as effective.

 

[SupermanFan]

This is presumably why Fisher made it public, because it wasn't being dealt with internally & in private.. or at least not in a manner he considered acceptable. So making it public basically put more pressure on all parties involved to start taking it more seriously as opposed to sweeping it under the rug.. & it's worked, it forced WB to conduct a proper investigation into the misconduct.

It's an age old tactic that's been used for years when people are involved in a dispute with an entity that has a bigger voice/reputation than themselves. You inform the papers, local news & they eat those stories of mistreatment right up. In Ray's case he broadcast it on Twitter, which was just as effective.

But then that’s just Fisher not been happy with what’s happened. Doesn’t mean he’s 100% right on everything. I think what he’s done has made things worse, creating a mob mentality that attacks on socials.

 

[KalvinEllis]

Wouldn't say he created it, I think it was there long before he said anything, but this mob mentality is what led to this latest situation as well. Someone posted a pic of Johns about how outraged they were that he was promoting Superman & Lois and then tagged Nadria whose firing from Superman & Lois had nothing to do with him. These people were purposely trying to stir **** up so they can use it against "the snake" afterwards so they naturally tagged Ray as well. There was one of them who was particularly outraged about Johns trying to argue with Ray on this topic, and that same guy had previously bodyshamed Johns in the comments for how he looked on that pic. lol These people are appalling.

 

[heatvision38]

That goes both ways though

Yes, it does. But context matters a lot.

 

[B]

But then that’s just Fisher not been happy with what’s happened. Doesn’t mean he’s 100% right on everything. I think what he’s done has made things worse, creating a mob mentality that attacks on socials.

From what we do know, Ray was 100% right & that nothing substantial had actually happened until he had made his complaints public. WB were seemingly content that they'd looked into the matter thoroughly & were content they'd done their due diligence in getting to the bottom of it.

Which they hadn't because the third party investigation concluded that there was enough misconduct & that some form of action needed to be taken.. I believe the term was 'remedial action', whatever exactly that actually entails.

Made things worse for who? Whedon?

 

[Da-Scribe]

Meh, y’all wouldn’t be so exhausted if you took a break from pushing the goal posts.

First it’s “Ray needs support.” Okay. He gets that from folks sharing similar stories about Whedon and from cast and crew mates like Kiersey Clemons, Karen Bryson and Snyder.

Then it’s “he needs corroboration from folks who were actually there during reshoots.” Okay. He gets that from Momoa and Gadot.

Then it’s “we’ll have to see what Warner finds in their investigation.” Okay. They take remedial action and cut ties with Whedon.

Then it’s “Whedon doesn’t deserve to lose work. We don’t even know that he did anything that bad. He was under a lot of pressure.” Okay. Charisma Carpenter offers her story and full support for Ray.

Then it’s “alright Whedon was probably a bad guy. But that has nothing to do with Johns and Hamada.” Okay. So Ray says Johns threatened his career for escalating his issues with Whedon/displayed racism and that Hamada tried to protect Johns during the investigation.

Then it’s the wild ass claims that Johns was probably just trying to let Ray know how Hollywood works and that Hamada has every right to believe his friend Johns. Okay. So employment laws are broken down multiple times here explaining how all that is illegal.

Then it’s “well we’ve never heard of Johns being a bad guy in the industry.” Okay. But Diane Nelson disavowed him on Twitter in 2019.

Then it’s “well that’s one person and doesn’t mean he’s a racist or anything.” Okay. Nadria Tucker tweets about a racist conversation with Johns and Ray then offers up a similar account.

Then it’s just making fun of Ray for caring about genitalia. Okay. It’s explained how the desexualization of black males is a long standing, highly problematic trope in media.

And now you’ve somehow gotten to “oh how it’s all just so exhausting trying to maintain the middle ground when everyone here is oh so sensitive and blindly defending Ray.”

Y’all are wild as hell.

 

[KalvinEllis]

Meh, y’all wouldn’t be so exhausted if you took a break from pushing the goal posts.

First it’s “Ray needs support.” Okay. He gets that from folks sharing similar stories about Whedon and from cast and crew mates like Kiersey Clemons, Karen Bryson and Snyder.

Then it’s “he needs corroboration from folks who were actually there during reshoots.” Okay. He gets that from Momoa and Gadot.

Then it’s “we’ll have to see what Warner finds in their investigation.” Okay. They take remedial action and cut ties with Whedon.

Then it’s “Whedon doesn’t deserve to lose work. We don’t even know that he did anything that bad. He was under a lot of pressure.” Okay. Charisma Carpenter offers her story and full support for Ray.

Then it’s “alright Whedon was probably a bad guy. But that has nothing to do with Johns and Hamada.” Okay. So Ray says Johns threatened his career for escalating his issues with Whedon/displayed racism and that Hamada tried to protect Johns during the investigation.

Then it’s the wild ass claims that Johns was probably just trying to let Ray know how Hollywood works and that Hamada has every right to believe his friend Johns. Okay. So employment laws are broken down multiple times here explaining how all that is illegal.

Then it’s well “we’ve never heard of Johns being a bad guy in the industry.” Okay. But Diane Nelson disavowed him on Twitter in 2019.

Then it’s “well that’s one person and doesn’t mean he’s a racist or anything.” Okay. Nadria Tucker tweets about a racist conversation with Johns and Ray then offers up a similar account.

Then it’s just making fun of Ray for caring about genitalia. Okay. It’s explained how the desexualization of black makes is a long standing, highly problematic trope in media.

And now you’ve somehow gotten to “oh how it’s all just so exhausting trying to maintain the middle ground when everyone here is oh so sensitive and blindly defending Ray.”

Y’all are wild as hell.

I mean, I can speak for myself that I haven't done about 90% of the things you're going over, so I thought the "y'all" thing didn't include me. Then there's the last part which apparently shows it does. What's exhausting is the attitude some people here express towards anyone who doesn't go along with the popular narrative. That person doesn't need to be disrespectful to Ray, doesn't need to be "moving the goal post" or doesn't need to claim anyone is blindly defending him. and they're still given the same **** for it. When you're met with the same attitude over and over again, it does tend to get tiresome. As someone who's both personally and financially invested in those characters, I can't in good conscience take what comes out about this situation without expressing skepticism whenever I feel it's warranted to do so. Where is the goal post moving about wishing to have more detail about his argument with Johns, preferably from Johns himself. Where is the goal post moving about asking to know why did a comic book character's genitals become a topic that was needed to be discussed(was Cyborg at some point planned to have a love interest, was the lack of his lower body parts originally a topic in the script, etc). Where is the goal post moving about wishing this thread was less of an echo chamber than it has apparently turned into. This thread is indeed wild though, that's for sure.

 

[Da-Scribe]

I mean, I can speak for myself that I haven't done about 90% of the things you're going over, so I thought the "y'all" thing didn't include me. Then there's the last part which apparently shows it does. What's exhausting is the attitude some people here express towards anyone who doesn't go along with the popular narrative. That person doesn't need to be disrespectful to Ray, doesn't need to be "moving the goal post" or doesn't need to claim anyone is blindly defending him. and they're still given the same **** for it. When you're met with the same attitude over and over again, it does tend to get tiresome. As someone who's both personally and financially invested in those characters, I can't in good conscience take what comes out about this situation without expressing skepticism whenever I feel it's warranted to do so. Where is the goal post moving about wishing to have more detail about his argument with Johns, preferably from Johns himself. Where is the goal post moving about asking to know why did a comic book character's genitals become a topic that was needed to be discussed(was Cyborg at some point planned to have a love interest, was the lack of his lower body parts originally a topic in the script, etc). Where is the goal post moving about wishing this thread was less of an echo chamber than it has apparently turned into. This thread is indeed wild though, that's for sure.

I wasn’t really talking about you actually. I will say though that your main thing has been not believing Johns is racist simply because you’d never heard that about him prior. Which is fine. But then two accounts were presented and you kinda brushed them aside because you didn’t feel Johns was displaying racist enough behavior. Then you started focusing on someone body shaming him for some reason (which ain’t cool for sure, but has nothing to do with anything really).

I dunno, I just feel like a lot of the folks defending Ray were doing so because we wanted to take him seriously and felt the character attacks from posters here were unwarranted. He’s been called pathetic, a prima donna, salty about his career. And now those same folks are pretending to have been centrists just waiting for the facts this whole time.

Unrelated to you, but it takes no effort to make **** up and a ton to disprove it. I’ve had to go back through old training materials and sort through legal documents to shoot down some of the nonsense here. Like folks suggesting Hamada was right to defend Johns. And then those folks just bounce and ignore it all only to come back later with drive by posts to continue spewing the same nonsense and insults. You wanna talk exhaustion? I’m tired af. And it frustrates the hell outta me that I have to keep saying the same things over and over. I know I’m not the only one. @Aurakles literally just quotes themself at this point to save themselves the work lol.

 

[emc5466]

I wonder how AT&T shareholders feel about buying into this mess.

 

[Aurakles]

I think this thread has gotten a bit more heated than most because it's not about fictional events.
It's easier to agree to disagree when we're talking about whether Superman should wear red undies.
Because of the subject matter, it's immediate real world consequences, the actual lives affected, it's gotten a lot tenser.
Things are no longer metaphors to be interpreted, it's literal.
It's hard to be a dispassionate observer when it comes to this, it's difficult to maintain a Spock-like attitude. The natural tendency of arguments to create entrenchment and us vs them mentalities are catalyzed by the stakes involved.