The Rise of Skywalker Reactions to "Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker"

[Spider-Fan]

Or maybe you could try being more clear with your words.

You were replying to my question about how J.J. could follow up on the idea of "the light rising to meet the darkness" and it sounded like you were throwing shade at J.J. for not developing that idea. Why is it okay for Rian to do nothing to develop Snoke and Vader's helmet and the scheming of the dark side, but it's bad when J.J. doesn't develop the idea of "balancing the Force"? Personally I consider the former to be an infinitely more interesting plot direction.

No, that was when I was talking about my idea and how I would have continued that thread. Had literally nothing to do with JJ at that point in the post. Have you missed the countless posts I made where I said JJ had the right to continue the story as he saw fit? Including in this very discussion.

 

[Mr. Peanut]

I'm sorry, I find this very condescending. It's not that I don't get why people like the first movie, but you're acting like only you guys know what's good for Star Wars that anybody who likes Rian Johnson's work is just a complete idiot. Who somehow doesn't understand that it was a betrayal of Star Wars. I get that some fans feel that way, but what this amounts to is a disagreement. It's not that either side doesn't understand the other, posts like this make me think of you don't understand why people like Rian Johnson's movie and you just want to dismiss people who do as if they're dumb or somehow not real fans. I don't treat people who like the JJ Abrams movies like they're dumb. Though I hated his movies. I like to engage intelligently on why I think his movies are shallow and don't contribute anything to the series. But if you like them that's up to you. It's called an opinion.

Why can't we just debate whether or not a movie was good? Why do we have to act like one side or the other are morons? Why can't we have civil discussions and exchange ideas on why we see things differently without insulting people? Post like this make me angry. Seriously, every time I see a discussion go down this route I just want to slap people. Fans need to learn common courtesy. Seriously, we can both be fans and like different things. That's called life. This kind of crap is why I hate discussions on Star Wars anymore.

End rant

Dude, you're the one who came at me in the first place with a flippant remark deriding my opinion about J.J.'s movies. Don't act like you came here with a debate podium in hand and started things off with civility.

I already said I see where you're coming from. I can see where TLJ has merits over J.J.'s movies. But for some reason you refuse to do the same, instead treating everyone who preferred TFA or RoS like they just imagined the aspects they preferred about it.

No, that was when I was talking about my idea and how I would have continued that thread. Had letting nothing to do with JJ at that point in the post. Have you missed the countless posts I made where I said JJ had the right to continue the story as he saw fit? Including in this very discussion.

I never doubted that you think J.J. has the right to take whatever direction he wants, just whether or not you think the direction is a good one.

"Also, even if I were to entertain your notion that these introduced ideas have no meeting, isn't the point of a sequel to further develop ideas that were introduced but not necessarily completed in another movie?"

Yes, this is talking about how you would have continued that particular story thread. But since J.J. is the one who actually had to continue (or not continue) that thread, there is an implied comparison. Saying that you wanted this thread expanded on implies that you were dissatisfied when J.J. did not expand on it. Which is exactly how TFA fans felt about what Rian did in TLJ.

Plus there's also this post:

Honestly I wish they would have kept going with that idea about war between good and evil being cyclical and finding another path to bring balance to the universe. I think there was a great setup for it, and if you're asking me what I would have done with this movie I probably would have had Rey discover something in the Jedi texts that leads her down a journey that Kylo Ren would end up following that would be about the true nature of the force. That's what I would have done and I feel like that's what Rian Johnson was setting up.

I just feel like I'm getting mixed signals here.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Dude, you're the one who came at me in the first place with a flippant remark deriding my opinion about J.J.'s movies. Don't act like you came here with a debate podium in hand and started things off with civility.

I already said I see where you're coming from. I can see where TLJ has merits over J.J.'s movies. But for some reason you refuse to do the same, instead treating everyone who preferred TFA or RoS like they just imagined the aspects they preferred about it.

I am giving my opinion. No more, no less. When saying why I looked TLJ more, why would I argue why people liked JJ's stuff? That's not part of my argument. I get WHY some prefer JJ's vision, but his vision is not for me. That's my opinion.

I never doubted that you think J.J. has the right to take whatever direction he wants, just whether or not you think the direction is a good one.

"Also, even if I were to entertain your notion that these introduced ideas have no meeting, isn't the point of a sequel to further develop ideas that were introduced but not necessarily completed in another movie?"

Yes, this is talking about how you would have continued that particular story thread. But since J.J. is the one who actually had to continue (or not continue) that thread, there is an implied comparison. Saying that you wanted this thread expanded on implies that you were dissatisfied when J.J. did not expand on it. Which is exactly how TFA fans felt about what Rian did in TLJ.

Plus there's also this post:



I just feel like I'm getting mixed signals here.

I didn't like the story JJ gave me. That's true. But I judged it on its own merits, not judging it as a sequel to TLJ. As with any movie ever made, the movie speaks for itself and I didn't like it.

 

[Mr. Peanut]

I am giving my opinion. No more, no less. When saying why I looked TLJ more, why would I argue why people liked JJ's stuff? That's not part of my argument. I get WHY some prefer JJ's vision, but his vision is not for me. That's my opinion.

Then why attack my opinion with a flippant remark in the first place? This entire discussion I've been defending my own opinion on why I enjoyed RoS more than TLJ. I didn't seek out your opinion and tell you that you were wrong for liking what you like.

I didn't like the story JJ gave me. That's true. But I judged it on its own merits, not judging it as a sequel to TLJ. As with any movie ever made, the movie speaks for itself and I didn't like it.

That's fine. I literally never said you shouldn't dislike RoS or that you shouldn't like TLJ.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Then why attack my opinion with a flippant remark in the first place? This entire discussion I've been defending my own opinion on why I enjoyed RoS more than TLJ. I didn't seek out your opinion and tell you that you were wrong for liking what you like.

It's because you made a generalization based on a false assumption. I never said you're wrong to like JJ's movies. I debated your points on why they're good, but that's just a debate. Your opinion is your opinion. But my opinion had nothing to do with not ''getting'' anything. That's where I take issue.

That's fine. I literally never said you shouldn't dislike RoS or that you shouldn't like TLJ.

And I never said you had to like TLJ either. Here we agree. The quality of art is up to the viewer.

 

[Mr. Peanut]

It's because you made a generalization based on a false assumption. I never said you're wrong to like JJ's movies. I debated your points on why they're good, but that's just a debate. Your opinion is your opinion. But my opinion had nothing to do with not ''getting'' anything. That's where I take issue.

Well that's the thing, I never even tried to say J.J.'s movies were "good". All I ever argued was why I like them and why they provide what I want in a Star Wars movie while TLJ does not.

 

[Mandon Knight]

Saw it for first time this evening and absolutely loved it. It’s basically a ‘greatest hits’ package of the entire saga previous to it and leans heavily on Return of the Jedi but it’s done (in my view) with the love, attention and spirit missing from TLJ.

Plus, that final sequence and shot was all about the feels, had a blast with it and for me, best of the latest trilogy. 9/10

 

[Mani-Man]

I just watched "Just Write" Video on ROS which i think @Spider-Fan recomended and it is incredible good.
It points out a few things i havent noticed before and does well pointing out Problems i absolutly agree with.

I doesnt really change that i did like ROS, but he still makes fantastic points.
Its Worth checking out.
In general i recomend everybody who doesnt simply go "buha i hate that thing".

 

[DeadPresident]

Ultimately a disappointing conclusion to what was a disjointed waste of a trilogy.
My major takeaway from it is that nothing in this trilogy is earned, it all feels empty and our new trio of protagonists have almost zero charm, two of them have no development, and none of them are interesting in the least.

PT: Logical and made sense, lacked narrative flow and dwelled for too long on a bunch of pointless things.
OT: Logical and made sense, and also had smooth narrative flow.
ST: Illogical and a lot of it doesn't make sense, also has very little narrative flow.

Apparently in the unique case of TROS it's alright for a movie to be structurally an absolute mess, have the dialogue of an early morning kids shows, but because it has fan service sprinkled here and there it's supposed to be absolved of all its sins.

Finn, Poe, Rey, and Kylo all had fantastic potential after TFA and none of it seems to be realized. Overall I'd say Rey and Kylo ended up looking the best, probably Kylo the most because his arc was complex, but Rey lost a lot of her charm when she was conveniently a complete God-mode jedi at certain points, and then an incompetent child at others all in the same movie.

On a generous day I'd probably give it a 6/10, cinematography and effects were cool, resolution of Kylo's arc was solid, I enjoyed the OT character's cameos, but the disjointed narrative and the head-scratching choice to bring Palpatine back (so Rey, Leia, Luke, and Kylo being force sensitive couldn't sense there's some Sith planet where a universe-conquering army was being built...?) nosedived this trilogy into the ground. I mean wouldn't Luke surely have mentioned to someone before he inexplicably goes and dies "Hey btw, I was hunting down this dude that might have held the key to finding a threatening Sith stronghold where someone *cough*Palpatine*cough* is plotting to subjugate our whole galaxy"? Honestly one of the most poorly executed plots I've seen.

 

[Iceman]

I’d give the OT 9/10 and both the PT and ST a very disappointing 6/10 each. I can still enjoy all the films but they are achieving about 1/10th of what they could be.

 

[MrWayne]

Saw it for first time this evening and absolutely loved it. It’s basically a ‘greatest hits’ package of the entire saga previous to it and leans heavily on Return of the Jedi but it’s done (in my view) with the love, attention and spirit missing from TLJ.

Plus, that final sequence and shot was all about the feels, had a blast with it and for me, best of the latest trilogy. 9/10

Pretty much sums up my feelings. Had a blast and thoroughly enjoyed it! Now, while I do see all the points made by those who disliked or had issues... For me, it was the best of the of the new trilogy.

 

[shinlyle]

Pretty much sums up my feelings. Had a blast and thoroughly enjoyed it! Now, while I do see all the points made by those who disliked or had issues... For me, it was the best of the of the new trilogy.

The more I've thought about it, the more I like it. The fact is, this trilogy will resonate with the children of this generation the same way the prequel trilogy did for the last gen, and the original trilogy with my generation (and every generation, if they had sense). In 20 years or less, look for a new trilogy with even newer character that we all like even less, but out kids will their kids to see it..complaining about how good Finn and Rey and Kylo Ren were in comparison to whatever characters they fit into the next round.
It is the way of things.
The way of the Force...

 

[BatLobster]

The more I've thought about it, the more I like it. The fact is, this trilogy will resonate with the children of this generation the same way the prequel trilogy did for the last gen, and the original trilogy with my generation (and every generation, if they had sense). In 20 years or less, look for a new trilogy with even newer character that we all like even less, but out kids will their kids to see it..complaining about how good Finn and Rey and Kylo Ren were in comparison to whatever characters they fit into the next round.
It is the way of things.
The way of the Force...

Yup...

You have spoken.

 

[DeadPresident]

Sentimentality aside, this trilogy will age far worse than the PT did - in due time a more critical and vitriolic opinion will be formed about it much the same way it did about the PT.

 

[chintai80]

The more I've thought about it, the more I like it. The fact is, this trilogy will resonate with the children of this generation the same way the prequel trilogy did for the last gen, and the original trilogy with my generation (and every generation, if they had sense). In 20 years or less, look for a new trilogy with even newer character that we all like even less, but out kids will their kids to see it..complaining about how good Finn and Rey and Kylo Ren were in comparison to whatever characters they fit into the next round.
It is the way of things.
The way of the Force...

yea, it's like how i see the OT as the holy grail of trilogies.
but these younger kids saying they like the prequels more and i just don't understand how and why. lol.

but nostalgia's like that...i grew up watching the older movies but they probably seem very dated to the younger generation these days.

 

[chintai80]

one of my friends, around same age as me (late 30s) never really watched the OT before.
he watched empire strikes back for the first time and he said it was stupid.
he thinks the OT makes no sense and that the story is stupid.

i wanted to beat him up after he said all that.

 

[BatLobster]

I've talked to a bunch of people my own age who never watched Star Wars growing up. Some of them are able to get into it as adults, but yeah, as baffling as it is... others just find it dumb. The originals, I mean.

Helps keep things in perspective a bit.

 

[MrWayne]

The more I've thought about it, the more I like it. The fact is, this trilogy will resonate with the children of this generation the same way the prequel trilogy did for the last gen, and the original trilogy with my generation (and every generation, if they had sense). In 20 years or less, look for a new trilogy with even newer character that we all like even less, but out kids will their kids to see it..complaining about how good Finn and Rey and Kylo Ren were in comparison to whatever characters they fit into the next round.
It is the way of things.
The way of the Force...

Again, this film could have used some tweaking but I still enjoyed it and will re-watch...

I will say though that THAT kiss did seem out of place and unearned imo and I didn't like it. I cringed and even my audience groaned at it lol

 

[shinlyle]

one of my friends, around same age as me (late 30s) never really watched the OT before.
he watched empire strikes back for the first time and he said it was stupid.
he thinks the OT makes no sense and that the story is stupid.

i wanted to beat him up after he said all that.

You freakin' should have.

I took my wife's little cousin to see Episode 3 back in the day. On the way back, he said, "I can't believe Obi-Wan did that to Anakin". I responded, "Well he gets cut in half in the next one, so there's that". He said, "What next one?"
Kid have NEVER seen the original trilogy! So, I told him I would loan him the next three movies, and if he could honestly tell me the prequels were better, that I would buy him the prequels on DVD.
He watched them, and told me how much better the original trilogy was.

So I bought him all 6 on DVD. I reward those with taste.

 

[chintai80]

You freakin' should have.

I took my wife's little cousin to see Episode 3 back in the day. On the way back, he said, "I can't believe Obi-Wan did that to Anakin". I responded, "Well he gets cut in half in the next one, so there's that". He said, "What next one?"
Kid have NEVER seen the original trilogy! So, I told him I would loan him the next three movies, and if he could honestly tell me the prequels were better, that I would buy him the prequels on DVD.
He watched them, and told me how much better the original trilogy was.

So I bought him all 6 on DVD. I reward those with taste.

i did have another friend who watched the prequels first, then he watched the OT.
and he said the OT was much better and thought it was unbelievable how much better they were than the prequels. lol.

good taste!

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Well thankfully I was able to enjoy TROS a lot more upon my 2nd viewing. I think because the plot moves so fast it's hard to take in a lot of the movie on first viewing, but 2nd time I noticed more, especially around The Emporer and his return. And I noticed the quiet and heartfelt moments more when the movie had some rare slow moments. Hopefully I continue to like more the more I watch it.

Unlike TLJ were I have actually grown to hate it upon re-watch after simply feeling 'meh' about it on my first viewing.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I'm the total opposite. I always find more to like in TLJ. I like it more each time I watch it. TFA didn't age well for me as it is, and TROS when I saw it a second time I found even worse. I went from being meh to TROS to hating it the more I have thought about it. TFA I am meh to now after initially liking it.

 

[Captain Tired]

You freakin' should have.

I took my wife's little cousin to see Episode 3 back in the day. On the way back, he said, "I can't believe Obi-Wan did that to Anakin". I responded, "Well he gets cut in half in the next one, so there's that". He said, "What next one?"
Kid have NEVER seen the original trilogy! So, I told him I would loan him the next three movies, and if he could honestly tell me the prequels were better, that I would buy him the prequels on DVD.
He watched them, and told me how much better the original trilogy was.

So I bought him all 6 on DVD. I reward those with taste.

 

[Spider-Fan]

To add to my above post, the biggest reason I hate TROS is because it feels like a movie made by a think tank. It's one of the more egregious examples of a movie clearly made to appeal to a 4 quadrant audience so they can fool you into shelling out your money for this and to get you back on board to buy sweet sweet Star Wars merch. It feels like a product. Not a film. That to me is the biggest difference between Rian Johnson and JJ Abrams. Rian Johnson with TLJ I feel like was making a film first and a license to print money second. JJ Abrams in contrast is a money first and quality second guy. I do feel like TFA succeeds at being a film much more successfully than TROS does, but I still get that feeling even watching TFA. Even if it is to a lesser extent. As such, TLJ just speaks to me more.

 

[Batmannerism]

Ultimately a disappointing conclusion to what was a disjointed waste of a trilogy.
My major takeaway from it is that nothing in this trilogy is earned, it all feels empty and our new trio of protagonists have almost zero charm, two of them have no development, and none of them are interesting in the least.

PT: Logical and made sense, lacked narrative flow and dwelled for too long on a bunch of pointless things.
OT: Logical and made sense, and also had smooth narrative flow.
ST: Illogical and a lot of it doesn't make sense, also has very little narrative flow.

Apparently in the unique case of TROS it's alright for a movie to be structurally an absolute mess, have the dialogue of an early morning kids shows, but because it has fan service sprinkled here and there it's supposed to be absolved of all its sins.

Finn, Poe, Rey, and Kylo all had fantastic potential after TFA and none of it seems to be realized. Overall I'd say Rey and Kylo ended up looking the best, probably Kylo the most because his arc was complex, but Rey lost a lot of her charm when she was conveniently a complete God-mode jedi at certain points, and then an incompetent child at others all in the same movie.

On a generous day I'd probably give it a 6/10, cinematography and effects were cool, resolution of Kylo's arc was solid, I enjoyed the OT character's cameos, but the disjointed narrative and the head-scratching choice to bring Palpatine back (so Rey, Leia, Luke, and Kylo being force sensitive couldn't sense there's some Sith planet where a universe-conquering army was being built...?) nosedived this trilogy into the ground. I mean wouldn't Luke surely have mentioned to someone before he inexplicably goes and dies "Hey btw, I was hunting down this dude that might have held the key to finding a threatening Sith stronghold where someone *cough*Palpatine*cough* is plotting to subjugate our whole galaxy"? Honestly one of the most poorly executed plots I've seen.

This !!!!!

Thank you Sir, you have summed up my thoughts about this film far better than I could.

I would add a few thoughts, building on what you wrote:

All the Abrams SW films lack narrative flow

Kylo's arc was pretty good, although some dialogue after he resurrects Rey might have been good.

Daisy Ridley had pretty much the same expression for the whole film, until she smiled at the very end. There was so much more they could have done with her being Palpatine's grandchild, without even bringing Palpy back. I did like her final moments in the film though.

People accuse her character of being a Mary Sue - well after ROS she'll be the primary example for Mary Sue characters.
This has nothing to do with gender, as some have suggested, those people forget that Luke recieved some training from Obi Wan ( about not trusting his eyes and using the Force) before and then advice during his successful attack on the Death Star. Luke doesn't listen to advice in ESB and loses a hand as a result and gets thrashed by Vader. In ROTJ he defeats Vader but then is nearly killed by Palpatine. Luke loses and fails and learns hard lessons - Rey defeats a trained lightsaber fighter, Kylo Ren, the first time she holds a lightsaber and manifests whatever force power the story requires on demand without any prior training ( in TFA she does the Jedi mind trick and uses the force to resist Kylo's probing without any training or suggestion she knew such things were possible ) she works out how to heal the snake monster because the story needs her to. I bet young Obi Wan wished he knew how to do that when Quin Gon Jinn was dying in his arms.
Rey is never defeated by anyone and only "dies" after destroying Palpatine, something even Yoda couldn't do

The film ( and the trilogy) relies very heavily on plot contrivances which are so convenient as to be lazy storytelling - e.g. Supporting character has a "Captain's medallion" which can get her access to any First Order ship. 2 minutes later the main characters need to get access to the nearest First Order ship, hey guess what.....
In TFA Luke's lightsabre just happening to be there was a similar convenience.

There were also utterly pointless storylines eg
Chewie gets sent outside by himself, gets captured, we think he's dead and 5 minutes later we find out he's not ( removing any emotional impact or potential for surprise). Surely there was an easier and more sensible reason for Rey to go to Kylo's ship.

The concept that stormtroopers cannot hit anything is taken to the extreme in ROS as the main characters blast their way through Kylo's ship - after a while it became a lot like a first person shooter game and totally undermined any sense of the mains being in any real danger.

The three leads had zero chemistry with each other - which was one of the key ingredients in the success of the OT.

One really needs to turn off one's brain or you start wondering how a crippled Palpatine survived the fall ( that could have used an explanation) and then escaped the Death Star before it blew up, and then amassed the vast resources and manpower ( as in tens of thousands, maybe millions of people necessary to build and then crew his fleet of planet destroyers) and did so in a location so Secret that nobody knew how to find it without the Sith wayfinder macguffin. How did he get all the Star Destroyer parts delivered there ? How did he feed and house all those people ?

Rose got exactly the amount of screen time her character deserved. She wasn't a main or even an important character, so she wasn't necessary for a lot of ROS - hence, she wasn't in it.

Richard E Grant was more convincing in his role as a one dimensional evil officer, in his 5 or so minutes of screen time than Oscar Isaac in the entirety of the trilogy. Who exactly was Poe Dameron ? TBH I never even started to care - he sure as **** wasn't anywhere near as cool as Han Solo, that's for sure.

At the end I was pleased that Kylo Ren's story was brought to a satisfying end ( although he deserved a dignified cremation, like Darth Vader) and Rey adopted the Skywalker name, taking the film back to where the OT started. I was also pleased that the trilogy was over which means that Disney probably won't let Abrams and co near the original SW cast or story again.

I loathed TFA, not because it was a bad film - on it's own merits it was okay, but when seen as a completely unoriginal rehashing of ANH, with a key gender swap, well then its contemptible. I mean it's pretty much the exact same story with less charming leads and weaker storytelling. I give it a 5/10.

So ROS gets a 6/10 from me too. Not a terrible film at all but one which feels hardly worth to bear the Star Wars brand.