Justice League Real Talk - Where does the DCEU go from here? - Part 1

Status
Not open for further replies.
Cavill was good in Man from UNCLE. Charming, earnest, everything that Superman needs to be.

No matter what happens next.... WB, give the man his damn sequel. He's earned it.
 
Flint Marko said:
Cavill was good in Man from UNCLE. Charming, earnest, everything that Superman needs to be.

No matter what happens next.... WB, give the man his damn sequel. He's earned it.
Click to expand...

giphy.gif
 
These debates remind me of the debates sports fans have when a team is losing repeatedly...

Is the issue the couch, the scouts, certain players, the whole team?

Would changing one element be enough? For example, the coach? Or do you need to "blow the whole thing up?"

Advocates of wholesale changes tend to fear that incremental change, or smaller adjustments, will lead to continued failure or consistent mediocrity at best.

Other fans may think that smaller tweaks here and there would be enough to turn the team into a winner.

It's hard to evaluate all of that from the outside, at least for certain things. I think Cavill as Superman is one of those things. The DCEU was supposed to be built around his version of Superman, but that never really worked out, so that makes it a very tough call.
 
Mandon Knight said:
His love of the character, Henry's professionalism throughout all this and the previous few years and there is NO ONE that comes close to playing the character with more conviction currently.
Click to expand...
Cmon man
His love the character doesn't keep people's jobs or pay the bills at WB.
There are ton of professional people and nice people in the world, that doesn't mean they're immune to being fired if their product isn't up to snuff

And how can you say "NO ONE that comes close to playing the character with more conviction currently" well yeah because he's the only one to play Superman on the big screen in like 10 years. Of course no one comes close because that hasn't been anyone else. That's like being the only person on an island and then bragging how you're the smartest person on said island.

Cavill is a nice guy and I like his work outside of the DCEU, but I just don't see his time as Superman continuing because there's no logic in it. It's not his fault at all he did what he could with what he's written, but he's been a part of 3 under-performers for DC, 4 under-performers for WB
 
STARMAN said:
I like Henry. The odds are against him.
Click to expand...

Yes they are, yes they are.


Most of us thought that this film would revitalize his film franchise and that upon a successful reception, Warner Bros would announce their official plans for his solo sequel.

None of us thought that it would be the opposite where JL would potentially come off as his last film.

Not to mentionn that most of the good that they accomplished was overshadowed by the criticism for his CGI cover up regarding his mustache.
 
Blackman said:
Cmon man
His love the character doesn't keep people's jobs or pay the bills at WB.
There are ton of professional people and nice people in the world, that doesn't mean they're immune to being fired if their product isn't up to snuff

And how can you say "NO ONE that comes close to playing the character with more conviction currently" well yeah because he's the only one to play Superman on the big screen in like 10 years. Of course no one comes close because that hasn't been anyone else. That's like being the only person on an island and then bragging how you're the smartest person on said island.

Cavill is a nice guy and I like his work outside of the DCEU, but I just don't see his time as Superman continuing because there's no logic in it. It's not his fault at all he did what he could with what he's written, but he's been a part of 3 under-performers for DC, 4 under-performers for WB
Click to expand...

C'mon son.

Because the issue's with Snyder's 'vision' and the poor writing and characterisation which pretty much put Cavill into a tight corner. Just as Gadot embodies the essence of WW, Cavill does the same with Supes and his latest appearance has garnered the most praise. This is what I think Mandon Knight was getting at. It's funny how people seem to prefer the reborn Superman since someone other than Snyder got their hands on the character.

"NO ONE that comes close to playing the character with more conviction currently." does not say "he's the only one to play Superman on the big screen in like 10 years". We've had Tom Welling and Tyler Hoechlin play Clark/Superman and Cavill on the small screen so we've seen alternatives. The criticism of Cavill's tenure has largely focused on the characterisation of Supes rather than his performance.

Also it makes more sense to give Cavill one more go considering: a) he has one film left on his contract so terminating it might be costly b) Cavill's last appearance has been positively received c) Cavill's Superman was the one who kicked off the DCEU so jettisoning him now makes less sense. The one who has drawn the most criticism for the failings of the DCEU is Zack Snyder and he no longer will have the same creative control. Although really the issue is with upper management specifically Kevin Tsujihara making rather poor and rash decisions and not giving full control to someone who has a much greater understanding of the source material.
 
WW 2
MOS 2
The Batman
The Flash(NOT ****ING FLASHPOINT)
GLC

These all need to happen before JL 2 is even considered

Focus on these and forget all the stupid villain spin offs.
Keep the budgets under control.
Treat them like they don’t even really exist in a shared universe.

If Aquaman is good and not heavy with shared universe stuff(it has no reason to be) then I think we’ll be at a good starting point for this.
 
Last edited:
Astro13Zombie said:
WW 2
MOS 2
The Batman
The Flash(NOT ****ING FLASHPOINT)

These all need to happen before JL 2 is even considered

Focus on these and forget all the stupid villain spin offs.
Keep the budgets under control.
Treat them like they don’t even really exist in a shared universe.
Click to expand...

Hopefully Aquaman as well :oldrazz:
 
Mach2Infinity said:
C'mon son.

Because the issue's with Snyder's 'vision' and the poor writing and characterisation which pretty much put Cavill into a tight corner. Just as Gadot embodies the essence of WW, Cavill does the same with Supes and his latest appearance has garnered the most praise. This is what I think Mandon Knight was getting at. It's funny how people seem to prefer the reborn Superman since someone other than Snyder got their hands on the character.

"NO ONE that comes close to playing the character with more conviction currently." does not say "he's the only one to play Superman on the big screen in like 10 years". We've had Tom Welling and Tyler Hoechlin play Clark/Superman and Cavill on the small screen so we've seen alternatives. The criticism of Cavill's tenure has largely focused on the characterisation of Supes rather than his performance.

Also it makes more sense to give Cavill one more go considering: a) he has one film left on his contract so terminating it might be costly b) Cavill's last appearance has been positively received c) Cavill's Superman was the one who kicked off the DCEU so jettisoning him now makes less sense. The one who has drawn the most criticism for the failings of the DCEU is Zack Snyder and he no longer will have the same creative control. Although really the issue is with upper management specifically Kevin Tsujihara making rather poor and rash decisions and not giving full control to someone who has a much greater understanding of the source material.
Click to expand...

1. His performance garnered praise in a movie that is going left field
2. His solo movie was divisive and didn't make a lot of money
3. You can't compare the small screen to the big screen. Way more eyes watch the big screen than Smallville or Tyler Hoelchin. The performances are shot different on WB/CW show than a big screen movie

To your lettered points:
a) So what he has 1 more film in his contract? Those contracts probably have buy out clauses. And even if not, I'm 99% sure making another movie would lose them more money than just buying Cavill out. Andrew Garfield had more films in his contract, the Fan4stic people had more films in their contracts, Taylor Kitch had more films in his contracts...the list goes on. Having films in your contract mean jack when the movies you're in aren't seeing the right returns
b) Again his performance was well received in a movie that isn't doing well at the box office. I don't understand why people don't grasp this. And his performance isn't this universally so beloved thing that has everyone and their mom buzzing. This isn't like RDJ with Iron Man where everyone is lauding it. I'm sure the performance is good, but it's not so good to go spend another $150-$200 mill on a performance/character that people didn't grasp onto the first 2-3 times. There are movies filled with good performances, but they don't get continuations when the box office isn't right. And the box office hasn't been 100% right with any of Cavill's movies so far
c) Who cares that Cavill's Superman was the first to kick off the universe? Luke Evans was the first to kick off the Universal Monster Universe...Tom Cruise was the first to kick it off the Dark Universe... :shrug:

The only reason I see that people bring up is "Hey I like Cavill so bring him back" which is all well and good, but that doesn't make it a good decision in WB's eyes.
The fact of the matter is Cavill is one of the faces of the DCEU along with Affleck and Gadot. Gadot is straight she doesn't have to worry, but Cavill has been tied to 3 movies that have/are getting flack. What benefit is it to bring him back in his own solo movie? MAYBE bring him back in a team up movie (I doubt another will happen anytime soon).

It's not fair to Cavill, I understand that but it is what it is. Being talented or even a nice guy in Hollywood doesn't mean much when the movies you're in are underperforming. Whether it's your fault or not

EDIT: It also says a lot though that instead of making or even announcing a Man of Steel 2 they made BvS and have announced plenty of other DCEU properties but not a sequel to Man of Steel 2. They know people don't care
 
Last edited:
Again...you guys are overlooking Margot Robbie's Harley Quinn. She reached a higher level in the public consciousness than any other character in the DCFU other than MAYBE Wonder Woman. Approximately 147.2% of American females dressed up as Harley for Halloween that year. Ladies dyed their hair to look like hers. They wore her merch etc. And...again...Harley Quinn's appearance is what won SS a make-up Oscar....and NOTHING ELSE. Public interest in that character was so high that it not only was largely responsible for that movie OVER-PERFORMING at the box office...but it likely even bled over to help Tarzan over-perform at the box office.
 
Last edited:
Heretic said:
Again...you guys are overlooking Marot Robbie's Harley Quinn. She reached a higher level in the public consciousness than any other character in the DCFU other than MAYBE Wonder Woman. Approximately 147.2% of American females dressed up as Harley for Halloween that year. Ladies died their hair to look like hers. They wore her merch etc. And...again...Harley Quinn's appearance is what won SS a make-up Oscar....and NOTHING ELSE. Public interest in that character was so high that it not only was largely responsible for that movie OVER-PERFORMING at the box office...but it likely even bled over to help Tarzan over-perform at the box office.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure Croc had something to do with it too...
 
Blackman said:
I'm pretty sure Croc had something to do with it too...
Click to expand...

I highly doubt that. She just looked so cool to so many people that it won an Oscar. Killer freaking Croc. Do people even remember that he was in the film?
 
Heretic said:
Again...you guys are overlooking Margot Robbie's Harley Quinn. She reached a higher level in the public consciousness than any other character in the DCFU other than MAYBE Wonder Woman. Approximately 147.2% of American females dressed up as Harley for Halloween that year. Ladies died their hair to look like hers. They wore her merch etc. And...again...Harley Quinn's appearance is what won SS a make-up Oscar....and NOTHING ELSE. Public interest in that character was so high that it not only was largely responsible for that movie OVER-PERFORMING at the box office...but it likely even bled over to help Tarzan over-perform at the box office.
Click to expand...

I can echo this by saying there was a girl cosplaying as Robbie's Harley Quinn in my viewing of Suicide Squad.
 
Mark Hughes said:
Throwing more money into unproven or guilty-by-association characters is a risk they don't have to take right now, so they might decide that focusing on Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Shazam, and Batman is plenty enough to build a few solid trilogies that deliver the goods (assuming Aquaman and Shazam are hits, but if they aren't then they'd likewise get set aside after their first solo releases, of course) for the next several years while they fight the Trump administration's attempt to pressure the company into selling their news division to Rupert Murdock and Fox.
Click to expand...
So you're telling me Trump is DC's biggest enemy right now? Why am I not surprised....:argh:
 
Heretic said:
I highly doubt that. She just looked so cool to so many people that it won an Oscar. Killer freaking Croc. Do people even remember that he was in the film?
Click to expand...

When it comes to people judging the makeup I'm sure it did
 
SkullDevil said:
I can echo this by saying there was a girl cosplaying as Robbie's Harley Quinn in my viewing of Suicide Squad.
Click to expand...

Yeah and Instagram was littered with people saying Harley Quinn or Harley Quinn & the Joker are "goals"
 
What I hope WB doesn't take away from this debacle is to attempt to copy most Marvel movies by making the tone lighthearted. It just takes a competent filmmaker to do so, but the end result can be outstanding. Logan, TDK, Winter Soldier shows that serious movies can work.
 
In regards to Harley, I will say that I've never seen so many teen or adult girls buying or walking around with female comic book character shirts in my life, maybe children with batgirl shirts but that's about it. Nobody dresses up like Jean Grey, Mystique (or Prof X voice - Raven), Katiness, Rey, Scarlet Witch nor Black Widow.

Elsa is hands down the most popular cosplay though, for under 10s, so there you go, young girls dress up as Elsa and then Harley Quinn when they grow up, Harley is the equivalent of Elsa for young ladies.

Poor Anna, have not seen one girl dressed up as Anna
 
Blackman said:
3. You can't compare the small screen to the big screen. Way more eyes watch the big screen than Smallville or Tyler Hoelchin. The performances are shot different on WB/CW show than a big screen movie
Click to expand...

All right then, so who would you pick to replace him? I haven't seen any other names for a prospective replacement.

To your lettered points:
a) So what he has 1 more film in his contract? Those contracts probably have buy out clauses. And even if not, I'm 99% sure making another movie would lose them more money than just buying Cavill out. Andrew Garfield had more films in his contract, the Fan4stic people had more films in their contracts, Taylor Kitch had more films in his contracts...the list goes on. Having films in your contract mean jack when the movies you're in aren't seeing the right returns
b) Again his performance was well received in a movie that isn't doing well at the box office. I don't understand why people don't grasp this. And his performance isn't this universally so beloved thing that has everyone and their mom buzzing. This isn't like RDJ with Iron Man where everyone is lauding it. I'm sure the performance is good, but it's not so good to go spend another $150-$200 mill on a performance/character that people didn't grasp onto the first 2-3 times. There are movies filled with good performances, but they don't get continuations when the box office isn't right. And the box office hasn't been 100% right with any of Cavill's movies so far
c) Who cares that Cavill's Superman was the first to kick off the universe? Luke Evans was the first to kick off the Universal Monster Universe...Tom Cruise was the first to kick it off the Dark Universe... :shrug:
Click to expand...

a) Hang on, WB had two underperforming films with Cavill as you said but immediately proceeded with filming a third with him? Andrew Garfield was done after the second Spidey film. Taylor Kitsch got booted after only one film (I assume you're referring to John Carter?). Granted you're only mentioning a few examples but their situation hasn't equated with that of Cavill's. Why wait until 3 films in with Supes? Sorry pal but I'm not convinced. Show me something concrete that Cavill will get the boot and I might be convinced.

b) That's because there's nothing to grasp to begin with. It's equally possible what you're proposing won't happen. As of yet, there's nothing concrete to say he is going, absolutely zero. Show us definitively where he's going to be kicked to the curb.

The point he's better received this time is encouraging and certainly an improvement on before. I never said it was anything like RDJ, nor is anyone else. You're putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with 5. Besides IM1 was a totally different situation to this so why would anyone make such a comparison.

You know full well there were executive decisions made which pretty much pissed all over JL. The reshoots, the occasional poor VFX/CGI, the 2 hour runtime rather than shifting the release date and let them to a proper job with the edit and effects. This is what people are complaining about and the reason why it's doing so badly at the BO. Not Cavill or any of the cast.

c) False equivalence. Cavill's MoS kick started a universe which is now 5 films in and you think getting rid of him is a good idea?....Luke Evans' Dracula Untold was originally filmed as a standalone, they only tacked on the shared universe ending afterwards and certainly never built a lengthy film universe afterwards. Same for Tom Cruise's Mummy, dead in the water before it got going. So no, I'm not convinced.

The only reason I see that people bring up is "Hey I like Cavill so bring him back" which is all well and good, but that doesn't make it a good decision in WB's eyes.
The fact of the matter is Cavill is one of the faces of the DCEU along with Affleck and Gadot. Gadot is straight she doesn't have to worry, but Cavill has been tied to 3 movies that have/are getting flack. What benefit is it to bring him back in his own solo movie? MAYBE bring him back in a team up movie (I doubt another will happen anytime soon).

It's not fair to Cavill, I understand that but it is what it is. Being talented or even a nice guy in Hollywood doesn't mean much when the movies you're in are underperforming. Whether it's your fault or not
Click to expand...

You answered your own question. Why swap out a recognisable face who ostensibly is Superman for a new potentially anonymous one this far in? Given they've now lightened up his character to be in line with the 'classic' Superman which has gone down well. It makes absolutely zero sense to get rid of him at this stage with only one film left on his contract. Why spend so much money on reshoots for JL which are alleged to mainly surround changing pretty much all of Superman's story. If you're then going to give him the boot?

I never said he has to come back in his solo film. I would actually say it's better we next see him in JL2 and if the audience responds to him more then bring him back for MoS2. You're also ignoring the biggest weak link which is Snyder and the reason why things went to pot with BvS. MoS actually didn't do too badly and it was arguably the last third of the film which let it down. It may not have been firing on all cylinders but there definitely an appetite to see Cavill back in the role and certainly didn't tank the DCEU unlike your other examples above with their film universe.

EDIT: It also says a lot though that instead of making or even announcing a Man of Steel 2 they made BvS and have announced plenty of other DCEU properties but not a sequel to Man of Steel 2. They know people don't care
Click to expand...

That's one way of looking at it. Another is that they were desperate to catch up with Marvel's shared universe. Rather than be willing to invest in solo films as a precursor to a team-up film. They wanted to rush through a proto shared universe film as a launch point for the DCEU. And wanted to capitalise on the massive goodwill for Batman given the then recent conclusion of the very successful TDK trilogy with the added prestige of Ben Affleck who was the Hollywood darling.

Oh and by the way they did consider MoS2. A simple Google search would've seen to that:

Collider

Cinemablend
 
Last edited:
Astro13Zombie said:
WW 2
MOS 2
The Batman
The Flash(NOT ****ING FLASHPOINT)
GLC

These all need to happen before JL 2 is even considered

Focus on these and forget all the stupid villain spin offs.
Keep the budgets under control.
Treat them like they don’t even really exist in a shared universe.

If Aquaman is good and not heavy with shared universe stuff(it has no reason to be) then I think we’ll be at a good starting point for this.
Click to expand...
Kind of. JL 2 needs to be planned as a culmination of those films. Plan it all now!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

T
Justice League Real Talk - Where does the DCEU go from here? - Part 2
38 39 40
Replies
993
Views
70K
JOE
JOE
T
  • Locked
Justice League Justice League - All the Deleted Footage SPOILER Talk - Part 1
39 40 41
Replies
1K
Views
100K
Thread Manager
T
T
Justice League Justice League - All the Deleted Footage SPOILER Talk - Part 2
7 8 9
Replies
203
Views
30K
Patchwork Man
Patchwork Man
T
  • Locked
Justice League Justice League Spoilers Thread - Part 1
39 40 41
Replies
1K
Views
140K
Thread Manager
T
T
Justice League *OFFICIAL* Justice League Merchandise - Part 1
17 18 19
Replies
461
Views
101K
MbJ
MbJ

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)

Staff online

Members online

Total: 6,146 (members: 36, guests: 6,110)

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
202,370
Messages
22,093,171
Members
45,888
Latest member
amyfan32

Share this page

Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"