Justice League Real Talk - Where does the DCEU go from here? - Part 1

[Tra-El]

GCS and Batgirl REALLY need to be shelved at the moment in favor of Man of Steel 2 and Flashpoint. For real, WB can't make that goddamn mistake right now. Superman and Flash are monumental going forward with their DC Films and were the two last hero's audience's saw, together, in the PC scenes. Something people loved, hands down. Those two need TLC pronto.

 

[_Superman_]

GCS and Batgirl REALLY need to be shelved at the moment in favor of Man of Steel 2 and Flashpoint. For real, WB can't make that goddamn mistake right now. Superman and Flash are monumental going forward with their DC Films and were the two last hero's audience's saw, together, in the PC scenes. Something people loved, hands down. Those two need TLC pronto.

IMO they won't do anything with Superman unless they have too.

 

[harlequinade]

If WB announces they are going ahead with Whedon's Batgirl there is truly no hope left.

That kind of stupidity is just too much

 

[Aquafinn90]

GCS and Batgirl REALLY need to be shelved at the moment in favor of Man of Steel 2 and Flashpoint. For real, WB can't make that goddamn mistake right now. Superman and Flash are monumental going forward with their DC Films and were the two last hero's audience's saw, together, in the PC scenes. Something people loved, hands down. Those two need TLC pronto.

The thing with GCS and Batgirl is that they could be done on lower budgets, and there is clearly a market for female led genre films. Especially with all these scandals in Hollywood right now. I think WB will want to(and smartly) capitalize on the droves of females that went to see WW. Less because it was a "WW" movie and more because it was a strong empowered female in a genre that has historically catered to men.

Though GCS isn't coming before SS2 at any rate.
Also I think it would be in their favor to hire female directors for GCS and Batgirl honestly, though I think Joss is a done deal for Batgirl. Ava Duvernary is wrapping up A Wrinkle in Time and I think that movie is going to be wildly successful. WB should try and get her before Lucasfilm does. She was signed on for Black Panther initially, after all.

 

[Aquafinn90]

If WB announces they are going ahead with Whedon's Batgirl there is truly no hope left.

That kind of stupidity is just too much

They threw Joss to the wolves when they had him finish JL that far along into production/post-production. I have to wonder if Joss was able to get a "you finish this movie for us and we will give you complete creative control over Batgirl" deal out of this. I'm sure he didn't do this very admittedly risky move of finishing someone else movie without making sure he was going to benefit from it.

 

[FunkMiller]

If WB announces they are going ahead with Whedon's Batgirl there is truly no hope left.

That kind of stupidity is just too much

So you don’t think a Joss Whedon directed Batgirl movie makes money? Especially if disconnected from the DCEU?

 

[_Superman_]

The thing with GCS and Batgirl is that they could be done on lower budgets, and there is clearly a market for female led genre films. Especially with all these scandals in Hollywood right now. I think WB will want to(and smartly) capitalize on the droves of females that went to see WW. Less because it was a "WW" movie and more because it was a strong empowered female in a genre that has historically catered to men.

Though GCS isn't coming before SS2 at any rate.
Also I think it would be in their favor to hire female directors for GCS and Batgirl honestly. Ava Duvernary is wrapping up A Wrinkle in Time and I think that movie is going to be wildly successful. WB should try and get her before Lucasfilm does. She was signed on for Black Panther initially, after all.

No the truth of the matter is the WB doesn't really care about their other heroes. They care only about Batman and his family and will put up with Wonder Woman until this whole woman's power movement in Hollywood is over and then she will be pushed to the back burner with the rest of the heroes.

 

[Cats]

No the truth of the matter is the WB doesn't really care about their other heroes. They care only about Batman and his family and will put up with Wonder Woman until this whole woman's power movement in Hollywood is over and then she will be pushed to the back burner with the rest of the heroes.

Then why is the next film titled Aquaman?

 

[Cats]

The thing with GCS and Batgirl is that they could be done on lower budgets, and there is clearly a market for female led genre films. Especially with all these scandals in Hollywood right now. I think WB will want to(and smartly) capitalize on the droves of females that went to see WW. Less because it was a "WW" movie and more because it was a strong empowered female in a genre that has historically catered to men.

Though GCS isn't coming before SS2 at any rate.
Also I think it would be in their favor to hire female directors for GCS and Batgirl honestly, though I think Joss is a done deal for Batgirl. Ava Duvernary is wrapping up A Wrinkle in Time and I think that movie is going to be wildly successful. WB should try and get her before Lucasfilm does. She was signed on for Black Panther initially, after all.

^^ this, and Batgirl + GCS can be merged into 1 movie. Get an all female Superhero team up movie locked down before the MCU or Fox does it so no one can say DC is copying anyone.

 

[_Superman_]

Then why is the next film titled Aquaman?

Because it went into production before all of this

 

[Cats]

Because it went into production before all of this

All this what? Because Shazam was announced after WW's success.

 

[Tra-El]

IMO they won't do anything with Superman unless they have too.

Well...I believe they have to. The character is proven to be way more important than what seems to be letting on. If WB is serious and not lieing about getting Superman right then they need to recognize the importance in that. The DC Films going forward need big shoulders to fill and Superman could be those shoulders once WW2 and Aquaman are completed. Point blank, the core heros need prioritized. You can still do low budget films but in order for the DCEU to get where it needs to, the core needs to be done the right way with a solid vision.

 

[Boom]

GCS and Batgirl REALLY need to be shelved at the moment in favor of Man of Steel 2 and Flashpoint. For real, WB can't make that goddamn mistake right now. Superman and Flash are monumental going forward with their DC Films and were the two last hero's audience's saw, together, in the PC scenes. Something people loved, hands down. Those two need TLC pronto.

I honestly think it's more likely that we see a brand new Superman movie with a new actor. They won't cover the origin again, but it'll be a stand-alone Superman story with a new cast and new continuity, where Superman is already established. It will literally be the Spider-Man: Homecoming to Man of Steel's Amazing Spider-Man 2. That's my guess.

I just don't see a sequel to Man of Steel happening. The stigma is far too great. So without a MoS2 or JL2 in the near future, I don't know why you'd hold onto Cavill if you're the studio. Especially if your goal with the next Superman movie is to distance it from the current DCEU trainwreck as much as possible.

 

[Cats]

Cavill has one more movie in his contract.

 

[Boom]

Cavill has one more movie in his contract.

The studio can opt out of it.

 

[DerekLake]

^^ this, and Batgirl + GCS can be merged into 1 movie. Get an all female Superhero team up movie locked down before the MCU or Fox does it so no one can say DC is copying anyone.

They should definitely combine GCS and Batgirl if at all possible. With Batman and Nightwing already in the works, they really don't need two other Batman-related films at the moment. They certainly don't need up to three films (SS 2, GCS and this rumored Joker/Harley film) with the same character. I hope JL proves that throwing batman characters in a film doesn't automatically guarantee the big bucks, so they should be strategic about how they want to expand Batman's world (my preference, of course, would be that they expand Batman's world within the Batman film - repeating Nolan's solo take won't work anymore).

At this point I would rather see GCS before SS 2, a film which arguably made money because of Margot Robbie, Will Smith and the Joker. Without two of those, it's hard to say how popular SS will remain.

Most importantly (and I know I've said this already), WB really needs a game plan that takes into account what they want to see from the DCEU as a whole, rather than greenlighting projects solely based on which heroes/actors are currently popular. If Marvel can make unpopular heroes popular, so can WB, so that shouldn't be the determining factor.

 

[STARMAN]

Routh had more movies in his contract. They let it expire.

 

[Tra-El]

Fact of the matter is, they distanced themselves already IN Justice League. It already happened. JL was the beginning of the course correct and it begun with Superman's return. It's all there. There really is NO correlation between Cavill and MCU's Spidey. Those stipulations were far different. They can still distance themselves from what the DCEU has done and still have a fresh slate of circumstances. The happy medium can work. As successful as Wonder Woman was, her face is also attached to the likes of BvS and the DCEU as a whole. Familiar faces aren't the problem for WB and neither are the cast. This cast could be capitalized on like no other. Henry can have his moment with the right people and director around him. Rebooting now will solve nothing in the middle of a well known course correction, which already happened. They have the template for Henry's Superman.

 

[_Superman_]

Routh had more movies in his contract. They let it expire.

Routh had two more movies if I was not mistaken.

 

[STARMAN]

Routh had two more movies if I was not mistaken.

I thought so too.

 

[FunkMiller]

Clooney was under contract for another Batman movie. Contracts mean nothing.

 

[_Superman_]

Which is sad because they (WB) would have potentially wasted to good Supermen.

 

[Boom]

Fact of the matter is, they distanced themselves already IN Justice League. It already happened. JL was the beginning of the course correct and it begun with Superman's return. It's all there.

Too bad nobody's showing up to see that. Which, again, goes back to my point. MoS was critically divisive and underperformed at the BO. Batman v Superman was critically panned and underperformed at the BO. Justice League is critically divisive and is currently underperforming at the BO. Three duds with Henry Cavill's name attached. If I'm a studio executive or shareholder, why would I hold onto a guy that's been unable to draw the audience I want?

There really is NO correlation between Cavill and MCU's Spidey. Those stipulations were far different. They can still distances themselves from what the DCEU has done and still have a fresh slate of circumstances. The happy medium can work. As successful as Wonder Woman was, her face is also attached to the likes of BvS and the DCEU as a whole. Familiar faces aren't the problem for WB and neither are the cast. This cast could be capitalized on like no other. Henry can have his moment with the right people and director around him. Rebooting now will solve nothing in the middle of a well known course correction.

The argument can be made that while Wonder Woman was involved in BvS and JL, she wasn't "the face" of those movies. Her appearance in BvS was a glorified cameo at best, and even as a co-founder of the Justice League that movie was largely an ensemble piece. More to the point, one of the driving plot points of JL was bringing Superman back from the dead. The character was a point of focus throughout the film, despite not being on screen until the third act. And if we are being frank, Wonder Woman actually has a successful movie under her belt. This Superman doesn't. There's your difference.

An actor appearing in a series of underperforming films, the last of which causing serious damage to the brand. It sounds pretty comparable to the Amazing Spider-Man situation to me.

 

[DerekLake]

I honestly think it's more likely that we see a brand new Superman movie with a new actor. They won't cover the origin again, but it'll be a stand-alone Superman story with a new cast and new continuity, where Superman is already established. It will literally be the Spider-Man: Homecoming to Man of Steel's Amazing Spider-Man 2. That's my guess.

I just don't see a sequel to Man of Steel happening. The stigma is far too great. So without a MoS2 or JL2 in the near future, I don't know why you'd hold onto Cavill if you're the studio. Especially if your goal with the next Superman movie is to distance it from the current DCEU trainwreck as much as possible.

If WB wants to continue the DCEU largely intact, they'll continue with Cavill. A JL 2 is unlikely at this point, and would probably be a harder sell than a MOS 2. It would be very easy to sell a MOS 2 as a clean slate than getting new actors. Repeat recastings won't help the brand, unless they literally do a reboot of Superman the Movie. I just don't see that happening anytime soon. It's not that easy to find entirely new actors.

Look, I don't think Roven or Snyder or WB were ever planning to make a MOS 2 (there are a lot of little clues to this fact). However, Geoff Johns cares a great deal about Superman, and WB brought on Whedon in part to retool Cavill's Superman. And much of the negative discussion about the DCEU has focused on the problems with Superman (so there's some interest in the character still there). A MOS 2 might not be a certainty right now, but if the DCEU survives, and if WB ever hopes to make another JL film, they'll need to make a Superman sequel at some point.

Again, I guess the key is if they want to keep the shared universe going. My fear is that WB essentially abandons the shared universe idea (they were never fully on board with it) and splits up Aquaman, Shazam, WW, Batman and the other films. If that happens, then I would expect a Superman the Movie reboot (5-10 years down the line).

 

[Boom]

If WB wants to continue the DCEU largely intact, they'll continue with Cavill. A JL 2 is unlikely at this point, and would probably be a harder sell than a MOS 2. It would be very easy to sell a MOS 2 as a clean slate than getting new actors. Repeat recastings won't help the brand, unless they literally do a reboot of Superman the Movie. I just don't see that happening anytime soon. It's not that easy to find entirely new actors.

Look, I don't think Roven or Snyder or WB were ever planning to make a MOS 2 (there are a lot of little clues to this fact). However, Geoff Johns cares a great deal about Superman, and WB brought on Whedon in part to retool Cavill's Superman. And much of the negative discussion about the DCEU has focused on the problems with Superman (so there's some interest in the character still there). A MOS 2 might not be a certainty right now, but if the DCEU survives, and if WB ever hopes to make another JL film, they'll need to make a Superman sequel at some point.

Again, I guess the key is if they want to keep the shared universe going. My fear is that WB essentially abandons the shared universe idea (they were never fully on board with it) and splits up Aquaman, Shazam, WW, Batman and the other films. If that happens, then I would expect a Superman the Movie reboot (5-10 years down the line).

My suggestion that they'd make a new Superman movie with a new actor and new continuity works under the assumption that they're going to discontinue the current DCEU continuity and do a soft reboot wherein solo films are the focus.

Obviously, if WB is brave enough to risk a direct Man of Steel sequel, Cavill is your guy. I just don't see it happening.