Justice League Real Talk - Where does the DCEU go from here? - Part 1

[STARMAN]

Cavill has to see the handwriting on the wall. If I'm him I try to throw a Hail Mary and see if he can recruit a big time director. The last two times Superman was in limbo it took Singer and Nolan to get Superman greenlit.

 

[DerekLake]

Too bad nobody's showing up to see that. Which, again, goes back to my point. MoS was critically divisive and underperformed at the BO. Batman v Superman was critically panned and underperformed at the BO. Justice League is critically divisive and is currently underperforming at the BO. Three duds with Henry Cavill's name attached. If I'm a studio executive or shareholder, why would I hold onto a guy that's been unable to draw the audience I want?


The argument can be made that while Wonder Woman was involved in BvS and JL, she wasn't "the face" of those movies. Her appearance in BvS was a glorified cameo at best, and even as a co-founder of the Justice League that movie was largely an ensemble piece. More to the point, one of the driving plot points of JL was bringing Superman back from the dead. The character was a point of focus throughout the film, despite not being on screen until the third actor. And if we are being frank, Wonder Woman actually has a successful movie under her belt. This Superman doesn't. There's your difference.

An actor appearing in a series of underperforming films, the last of which causing serious damage to the brand. It sounds pretty comparable to the Amazing Spider-Man situation to me.

I might agree, except for two points: 1) both BvS and JL were heavily marketed as Batman films, and 2) the consistent criticism of this Superman in both MOS and BvS has been that he isn't like Donner's version. Affleck' Batman is the one who couldn't draw an audience, and JL didn't even feature Superman in the marketing. It'd be one thing if audiences showed up to JL and hated Cavill. But they didn't even show up, which places the fault on the marketing, not on Cavill's Superman. Cavill may very well go down with the ship, but it won't be because he's steering it. WB, despite their obvious faults, won't necessarily blame Cavill. Affleck, however? He's definitely done. Despite what we all may think, his Batman just isn't as popular as previous versions.

My suggestion that they'd make a new Superman movie with a new actor and new continuity works under the assumption that they're going to discontinue the current DCEU continuity and do a soft reboot wherein solo films are the focus.

Obviously, if WB is brave enough to risk a direct Man of Steel sequel, Cavill is your guy. I just don't see it happening.

If WB reboots, it'll be a hard reboot for everyone but Wonder Woman and Harley Quinn. With JL's performance, I just don't see any reason for them to keep anyone if they indeed decide to reboot. Hell, I expect they're also retooling WW 2 to disconnect it from BvS and JL (it's not that hard tbh).

 

[STARMAN]

WB had no plans for MOS 2 to begin with. The idea that the film was secretly in-development and far along while waiting for JL to debut was never true.

 

[JOE]

It sucks that Cavil may not get his sequel. I enjoyed his performance in JL, I really think the GA did as well.

 

[Boom]

I might agree, except for two points: 1) both BvS and JL were heavily marketed as Batman films, and 2) the consistent criticism of this Superman in both MOS and BvS has been that he isn't like Donner's version. Affleck' Batman is the one who couldn't draw an audience, and JL didn't even feature Superman in the marketing. It'd be one thing if audiences showed up to JL and hated Cavill. But they didn't even show up, which places the fault on the marketing, not on Cavill's Superman. Cavill may very well go down with the ship, but it won't be because he's steering it. WB, despite their obvious faults, won't necessarily blame Cavill. Affleck, however? He's definitely done. Despite what we all may think, his Batman just isn't as popular as previous versions.

That's fair. Though given Batman's enormous success in the past, it wouldn't surprise me if WB shouldered the blame of BvS and JL's failures on Superman (a character that really hasn't seen success since the Donner days). Not saying that's fair, but these are movie executives we are talking about.

If WB reboots, it'll be a hard reboot for everyone but Wonder Woman and Harley Quinn. With JL's performance, I just don't see any reason for them to keep anyone if they indeed decide to reboot. Hell, I expect they're also retooling WW 2 to disconnect it from BvS and JL (it's not that hard tbh).

Pretty much. Momoa might also be safe if Aquaman turns out to be a huge success.

 

[Maze]

Cavill has to see the handwriting on the wall. If I'm him I try to throw a Hail Mary and see if he can recruit a big time director. The last two times Superman was in limbo it took Singer and Nolan to get Superman greenlit.

Problem, is right now, i dont see a director for Superman who could seem a sure bet for Warner Bros, if not Christopher Nolan. And he would never do it.

 

[WBwins]

Well Well Well Well

Here we are.The worst has happened.All the people who were called Trolls and **** stirrers were proved to be actually decent fans warning us of the impending doom.and the Positivity police have been proven to be nothing but fans in denial.

It is now undeniably clear that Zak snyder and WB have done a Huge damage to DCEU brand and that snyder should never have been kept on.

So what now?
Well JL2 is out of the question.Cavills Superman has been in 3 disappionting movies so its over for him.Dont expect a Superman movie anytime soon and when we do it will be a reboot.Theres simply no financial incentive to continue with cavill superman.

Its clear Affleck lied about sticking around after Justice League

Reeves is clearly going to create a Batman trilogy thats not in the DCEU with a new actor.Its clear that WB has beening planning to build a Batman cinematic universe so expect far more focus on that.

Aquaman and WW2 are fine.Doubt Flash is getting made.

 

[STARMAN]

Problem, is right now, i dont see a director for Superman who could seem a sure bet for Warner Bros, if not Christopher Nolan. And he would never do it.

I would have said JJ Abrams but he is busy with the next Star Wars.

 

[DerekLake]

WB had no plans for MOS 2 to begin with. The idea that the film was secretly in-development and far along while waiting for JL to debut was never true.

Agreed. 1) Snyder said that BvS was his MOS 2; 2) Terrio said JL was the third film in a trilogy, and Snyder added that MOS-JL covers birth, death and resurrection; and 3) most tellingly, Snyder killed off Jimmy Olsen because there was "no room for him." You don't say that if you envision more Superman films. For better or worse, this was their Superman trilogy.

Now, Cavill clearly wants more Superman films, and Geoff Johns is clearly a big fan of Superman. Hopefully Wonder Woman's success (and Whedon's effort to retool Superman) leads to at least one more Superman film with Cavill. At the very least, I do hope he shows up somewhere in Shazam or another film; sprinkling Cavill throughout other films would at least warm the audience back up to this revised take before putting him in another solo film.

 

[Consona]

Well Well Well Well

Here we are.The worst has happened.All the people who were called Trolls and **** stirrers were proved to be actually decent fans warning us of the impending doom.and the Positivity police have been proven to be nothing but fans in denial.

It is now undeniably clear that Zak snyder and WB have done a Huge damage to DCEU brand and that snyder should never have been kept on.

So what now?
Well JL2 is out of the question.Cavills Superman haa been in 3 disappionting movies so its over for him.Dont expect a Superman movie anytime soon and when we do it will be a reboot.Theres simply no financial incentive to continue with cavill superman.

Its clear Affleck lied about sticking around after Justice League

.I dont mind.Reeves is clearly going to create a Batman trilogy thats not in the DCEU with a new actor.Its clear that WB has beening planning to build a Batman cinematic universe so expect far more focus on that.

Aquzman and WW2 are fine.Doubt Flashz getting made.

 

[Maze]

Jj Abrams could be another yes. Not of the magnitude of Nolan ( His Star trek 2 made money, but was not a box office mega hit) but still. Now, as you say, it's doubful that he would do it, before a long time.

 

[Boom]

If Warner Brothers decides to make another Superman movie in the near future (whether it be MoS2 or a reboot), they'd be wise to keep an eye on how Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom performs.

J.A. Bayona is a talented filmmaker, and is on record as wanting to make a Superman film. Given the current state of the property, finding a filmmaker with genuine passion for the source material holds immense value. If Fallen Kingdom comes out and is a smash success like its predecessor, I'd give him a call.

 

[_Superman_]

Problem, is right now, i dont see a director for Superman who could seem a sure bet for Warner Bros, if not Christopher Nolan. And he would never do it.

Nolan would not do it because this is the Superman he mapped out for WB. Snyder's Superman is really Nolan's Superman and if he stepped in you can bet he would tell the WB not to mess with his hero while he works on him. Something I don't think the WB wouldn't do.

 

[JOE]

If Warner Brothers decides to make another Superman movie in the near future (whether it be MoS2 or a reboot), they'd be wise to keep an eye on how Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom performs.

J.A. Bayona is a talented filmmaker, and is on record as wanting to make a Superman film. Given the current state of the property, finding a filmmaker with genuine passion for the source material holds immense value. If Fallen Kingdom comes out and is a smash success like its predecessor, I'd give him a call.

Solid point. Would you like to be the DCeU's Feige? #BoomForPresident

 

[DerekLake]

Well Well Well Well

Here we are.The worst has happened.All the people who were called Trolls and **** stirrers were proved to be actually decent fans warning us of the impending doom.and the Positivity police have been proven to be nothing but fans in denial.

It is now undeniably clear that Zak snyder and WB have done a Huge damage to DCEU brand and that snyder should never have been kept on.

So what now?
Well JL2 is out of the question.Cavills Superman haa been in 3 disappionting movies so its over for him.Dont expect a Superman movie anytime soon and when we do it will be a reboot.Theres simply no financial incentive to continue with cavill superman.

Its clear Affleck lied about sticking around after Justice League

.I dont mind.Reeves is clearly going to create a Batman trilogy thats not in the DCEU with a new actor.Its clear that WB has beening planning to build a Batman cinematic universe so expect far more focus on that.

Aquzman and WW2 are fine.Doubt Flashz getting made.

Aquaman will get made, but it's actually in the most precarious position. Those who did see JL didn't seem to regard him as a particularly strong standout like Gal was in BvS, and since most will not see JL, there won't be any excitement going into Aquaman. Unless the marketing is top notch, no one will show up for Aquaman. And if the WOM isn't stellar, it won't do well. Aquaman is not the easiest character to depict onscreen, so Wan will have had to make Momoa's apathetic "surfer dude" much more acceptable/relatable to the audience.

Flash actually has a little bit of a buffer, given how appealing the character's story can be to the GA. As long as they DON'T do Flashpoint, and instead do a character-based story, it can still do fine. The question is whether Ezra's take will actually resonate enough with the wider GA.

I would have said JJ Abrams but he is busy with the next Star Wars.

As much as I hate to admit it, JJ Abrams might be the safest, best choice for a Superman film at this point (a Superman film would be a few years off anyway, so as long as he isn't lined up for another film after Episode IX, it'd be okay). Again, the key is to get writers who understand the character beyond his portrayal in Superman the Movie and Superman II.

 

[Ultra Nolanite]

Nolan would not do it because this is the Superman he mapped out for WB. Snyder's Superman is really Nolan's Superman and if he stepped in you can bet he would tell the WB not to mess with his hero while he works on him. Something I don't think the WB wouldn't do.

Nah, Snyderman is Snyderman.

 

[DerekLake]

Nolan would not do it because this is the Superman he mapped out for WB. Snyder's Superman is really Nolan's Superman and if he stepped in you can bet he would tell the WB not to mess with his hero while he works on him. Something I don't think the WB wouldn't do.

Nah, Snyderman is Snyderman.

The Superman we got in MOS, sans neck snapping, was Goyer's Superman, with Nolan oversight. Snyder's Superman is the one we got in BvS, which is markedly worse than the MOS Superman. With reshoots, JL's Superman is now largely Whedon's.

I agree that Chris Nolan isn't the right one to do Superman, and he would probably never accept, but I'd very much like Jonathan Nolan to at least do the rewrites on whatever script came out of a new Superman film. Jonathan Nolan's writing is what turned Goyer's into a stellar product for TDK, and his work in Person of Interest and Westworld I think demonstrates his ability to weave in complex themes (much better than Terrio imo).

In general, though, Superman needs fresh eyes.

 

[STARMAN]

Jonathan Nolan was asked about Superman once around the time MOS came out. He wasn't interested in the character. Something about preferring writing for vigilantes.

 

[Arachnerd]

If Warner Brothers decides to make another Superman movie in the near future (whether it be MoS2 or a reboot), they'd be wise to keep an eye on how Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom performs.

J.A. Bayona is a talented filmmaker, and is on record as wanting to make a Superman film. Given the current state of the property, finding a filmmaker with genuine passion for the source material holds immense value. If Fallen Kingdom comes out and is a smash success like its predecessor, I'd give him a call.

Think I'm one of the few who'd actually prefer seeing a Bayona Superman film rather than a Matthew Vaugh one. ^^'

I'm curious to see what he'll bring with JP5.

 

[STARMAN]

Bayona seems the type that would be willing to take the baton and not demand scrapping everything that came before. Just an impression.

 

[Boom]

Solid point. Would you like to be the DCeU's Feige? #BoomForPresident

Harken to me, my children, for I will not lead you astray.

 

[The Infernal]

What happened to the rumours of George Miller doing a Superman movie? I wouldn't mind seeing him direct Henry as Superman.

As for other parts of the DCEU I think they have to go with Aquaman for the time being. I wasn't impressed with their take on the character, but he wasn't bad.

The Flash I would like them to see do Flashpoint as it would be cool to see Jeffrey Dean Morgan as Thomas Wayne/Batman and a good opportunity to soft reboot the elements that didn't work. Even though I thought Ezra was the worst member of the cast I don't think they could get away with recasting him, even if he is essentially playing Sheldon Cooper.

I would also still have WB make whatever Black Adam film they're planning as they can't afford to lose the Rock at this stage in his career.

Cyborg I would still like to see at some point. Though I would want to see him evolve into something more akin to his Teen Titans counterpart. More upbeat (booyah) and have his costume be less blocky and less cgi. Maybe a buddy movie with Beast Boy would be fun?

 

[Micromind]

Cavill should go ahead and meet a director who's interested in Superman movie, like Matthew Vaughn or JA Bayona, and ask them to make a pitch for a Superman movie to WB.

If Margot Robbie can take a lead for a Harley Quinn movie, there's no reason why Cavill can't do the same.

 

[JOE]

Harken to me, my children, for I will not lead you astray.

 

[The Infernal]

If there's even a one percent chance he can competently craft a DCEU...