Reality Check(Budget vs. Profit)

[not_a_victim]

I have a related question, does anyone know how the studios actually account for, and recieve money from ticket sales? I realize that the money transfer is electronic, etc, but does anyone know what the tracking system is?

 

[CapBeerCino]

I don't know about x-4, but that was a very intresting read, so thanx, Theweepeople

However, in terms of true profit, international box office need to be taken into account

I know that in some countries the distributor only pays Fox once for his right to screen x-3 no matter how many people will see it.

 

[Celestial]

I think you're still missing the point. Fox had a pretty good idea of how much X3 was likely to make at the box office and yet they were willing to invest $210m or whatever to make it. So by implication, they thought it was worthwhile. They were working with better information than we are and were in a position to cut costs if they thought it necessary. They still went ahead and it has delivered, in financial terms, in line with expectations.

On the other hand, you are trying to use a simplistic model to prove that they made a bad business decision.

I think that Fox will be fairly happy with the results. They have proven that they can deliver a summer blockbuster and they were the first to do so this year. Instead of the gloom and doom of last year, everyone's looking forward to a summer of high box office numbers.

Next up is Superman Returns, and that's unlikely to show as highly profitable using your formula, but so long as it as a higher opening/total box office than X3 it's going to be seen as a success.

 

[superion]

I think you're still missing the point. Fox had a pretty good idea of how much X3 was likely to make at the box office and yet they were willing to invest $210m or whatever to make it. So by implication, they thought it was worthwhile. They were working with better information than we are and were in a position to cut costs if they thought it necessary. They still went ahead and it has delivered, in financial terms, in line with expectations.

On the other hand, you are trying to use a simplistic model to prove that they made a bad business decision.

I think that Fox will be fairly happy with the results. They have proven that they can deliver a summer blockbuster and they were the first to do so this year. Instead of the gloom and doom of last year, everyone's looking forward to a summer of high box office numbers.

Next up is Superman Returns, and that's unlikely to show as highly profitable using your formula, but so long as it as a higher opening/total box office than X3 it's going to be seen as a success.

I think Fox's decision to spend so much on this movie is a bad business decision. They knew from the 2nd movie this franchise was not Spiderman and a 3rd movie was unlikely to make more then $250 million domestically or overseas so why would you double the production budget virtually ensuring that the movie would fail to even breakeven at the BO. How can a decision to spend more on a movie then it could possibly recoup at the BO be a good decision.

As for Superman Returns I also don't see how the simple fact it may open higher then X3 will make it a success if it collapses like X3 did it subsequent weeks and its total BO is no more then X3 $450 million or so with a production and advertising budget of well over $300 million dollars. They would be looking at a huge deficit.

 

[danoyse]

All I recall is that after the initial script review of Aint it Cool News Came out Fox released a statement about the script being old and that many changes were made to it. In reality 90% of what was in the original script was kept.

Fox never made an *official* statement regarding the AICN leak. When interviewing people involved with the production--including the writers, they only stated that it was from an early draft.

Secondly, AICN didn't review the script themselves--it was sent from a new source who could only get the first 2/3 of the script. If you were on these boards following the AICN thing, Moriarty himself posted here saying that AICN had the entire script, and that it wasn't terrible. They were just concerned that Fox was going to screw the whole thing up.

And...Moriarty wound up giving the movie a great review.

 

[theguido]

I think Fox's decision to spend so much on this movie is a bad business decision. They knew from the 2nd movie this franchise was not Spiderman and a 3rd movie was unlikely to make more then $250 million domestically or overseas so why would you double the production budget virtually ensuring that the movie would fail to even breakeven at the BO. How can a decision to spend more on a movie then it could possibly recoup at the BO be a good decision.

As for Superman Returns I also don't see how the simple fact it may open higher then X3 will make it a success if it collapses like X3 did it subsequent weeks and its total BO is no more then X3 $450 million or so with a production and advertising budget of well over $300 million dollars. They would be looking at a huge deficit.

Well, it's possible that rushing it actually helped it a great deal (which is why the budget was so high). If it hadn't had the four-way weekend with so little competition, it might not have been able to make its' money back domestically. I mean, seriously, you can't make the number it made now in other parts of the year and most of the rest of the summer is brutal in terms of the releases. Going against Superman or POTC would have been a bad idea since they're similar types of movies, so it could have ended up being the best way they could have handled it.

 

[danoyse]

"Wasn't it curious how TDC wasn't released for review before it was released to the box offices? That is usually an indication of a studio that knows it has a stinker on it's hands..."

Which is why even TDC code be considered to be a failure(Not financially by itself.) because it destroyed the success of the prequel Angels and Demons.

OK, you guys are officially insane...first of all, DaVinci Code was screened for critics. It even premiered at the Cannes Film Festival (along with X3).

Also, it's been extremely profitable, and "Angels & Demons" is being made. The fans are pretty happy about it.

 

[PoSeiDon]

I agree with you that this film will make a lot of money overall( Even Drudge Dred made decent money overseas to offset domestic gross. Batman and Robin made 130,000,000 overseas). However, it is still a disappointing to Fox because now they are having second thoughts about making spin offs.

where do u get your info?

 

[danoyse]

Instead of ripping off a portion of the Golden Gate bridge I thought it would have made more sense for Magneto and his troops to use stolen boats as a mode for transportation thereby drawing less attention to themselves and making it possible for a suprise attack.

But wouldn't they see the boats? I'm assuming they'd be motorized, unless Magneto was planning to have Juggernaut row them across the bay under cover of darkness.

Even if the building was made out of plastic(LOL) I had a hard time excepting the fact that Magneto felt so strongly about killing leech(one of his own).

He had no problem with killing Rogue in the first movie.

 

[danoyse]

I'm not sure why Fox believes Wolverine is going to make so much money for them.

Because Wolverine's the most popular character in the movies.

Look, I saw Hugh Jackman on Broadway, and he did a lot of ad-libbing on stage. That night the interaction between him and a person in the audience led to an X-Men comment. The rest of the audience, and keep in mind this was a theater crowd...went beserk. And his response made them go even crazier.

He mentioned Wolverine hosting the Tony Awards last year and people cheered. The guy (actor and character) is popular.

Wolverines battles in X-Men 3 looked weird, stupid, and boring compared to what I say in the previous films. The fight between him and Juggernaut was brainless. Wolverine at least 5x more athletic than Juggy and he did not hit Juggernaut once with his claws.

But the scene where he fights the guy with the arms growing back has gotten the biggest audience response all 4 times I saw the movie.

 

[Theweepeople]

"But wouldn't they see the boats? I'm assuming they'd be motorized, unless Magneto was planning to have Juggernaut row them across the bay under cover of darkness. "

I'm thrilled that you responded to this. What makes more more sense? Ripping off a portion of the Golden Gate Bridge in broad daylight, using a few large boats at night(hiding the majority of mutants in the lower decks of the boats) while going to Al Catraz, or since Magneto was so intent on killing Leech why did he not just fly over to Al Catraz all by himself and collapse the building. Had this been is plan he would not have been cured and he would still have his army.


"He had no problem with killing Rogue in the first movie."

He did have a problem with killing Rogue. He certaintly struggled with his decision. But, in this movie his decision to kill Leech was done with no hesitation at all. I wonder when he came up with this random decision. He could he just flown over to Al Catraz all by himself and killed leech by destroying the building(Just reminding you). That was one well thought out plan by Magneto.

 

[Theweepeople]

"Because Wolverine's the most popular character in the movies. "

Look, I saw Hugh Jackman on Broadway, and he did a lot of ad-libbing on stage. That night the interaction between him and a person in the audience led to an X-Men comment. The rest of the audience, and keep in mind this was a theater crowd...went beserk. And his response made them go even crazier. "



He mentioned Wolverine hosting the Tony Awards last year and people cheered. The guy (actor and character) is popular. "


The reason he is the most popular character is because he has gotten the most screen time since the first film. If nightcrawler or other X-Men characters got the same amount of screen time they could be as popular.

"But the scene where he fights the guy with the arms growing back has gotten the biggest audience response all 4 times I saw the movie."

Even I responded to this scene when I saw it(One of the few scenes I verbally responded to.). Not because it was an impressive action sequence. It made me laugh. However, it did not make me want to see more of wolverine.

 

[Theweepeople]

"OK, you guys are officially insane...first of all, DaVinci Code was screened for critics. It even premiered at the Cannes Film Festival (along with X3).

Also, it's been extremely profitable, and "Angels & Demons" is being made. The fans are pretty happy about it."

Once again have you misinterpreted something that I said. I never DaVinci Code was not profitable. I did say since it was not well received by fans the next film in the series could take a huge financial hit. DaVinci Code could have the same effect for this franchise that Batman Forever had.(Batman Forever made a lot of money despite horrible critic reviews and Batman and Robin bombed.)

 

[danoyse]

I'm thrilled that you responded to this. What makes more more sense? Ripping off a portion of the Golden Gate Bridge in broad daylight, using a few large boats at night(hiding the majority of mutants in the lower decks of the boats) while going to Al Catraz, or since Magneto was so intent on killing Leech why did he not just fly over to Al Catraz all by himself and collapse the building. Had this been is plan he would not have been cured and he would still have his army.

About as much sense as Magneto planting a machine at the top of the Statue of Liberty--during which they did drive up in a boat, which Sabertooth promptly landed on when he fell from the Statue. How does he escape from that?

He destroys the whole complex in one shot, what happens to the battle sequence. I'm sure many of these stories would have made more sense if the bad guy simply annihilated the competiton.

He did have a problem with killing Rogue. He certaintly struggled with his decision.

"I'm sorry if this comes as a small consolation." He was willing to kill Rogue because he wasn't willing to sacrifice himself, which Wolverine pointed out that if he was so righteous, he would have put himself in the machine. He could care less what happened to Rogue, as long as he got what he wanted.

In X2, he left the X-Men behind while he and Mystique (and Pyro) left in the helicopter. He knew that the dam was about to break.

He left Mystique after she was cured. He was about to kill Wolverine before Beast cured him. He "let the pawns go first" in the first wave of battle.

He doesn't have a problem killing Leech.

 

[danoyse]

The reason he is the most popular character is because he has gotten the most screen time since the first film. If nightcrawler or other X-Men characters got the same amount of screen time they could be as popular.

But they didn't...Wolverine did. Hence the popularity, and the likeliness of a spinoff.

Even I responded to this scene when I saw it(One of the few scenes I verbally responded to.). Not because it was an impressive action sequence. It made me laugh. However, it did not make me want to see more of wolverine.

But that's your opinion. They're not pinning a spinoff series just based on that one scene.

 

[danoyse]

Once again have you misinterpreted something that I said. I never DaVinci Code was not profitable. I did say since it was not well received by fans the next film in the series could take a huge financial hit. DaVinci Code could have the same effect for this franchise that Batman Forever had.(Batman Forever made a lot of money despite horrible critic reviews and Batman and Robin bombed.)

You're confusing the fanbase. DaVinci Code isn't a comic book. There are two books with this character, not decades of comics and endless movie possibilities.

 

[Theweepeople]

"

About as much sense as Magneto planting a machine at the top of the Statue of Liberty--during which they did drive up in a boat, which Sabertooth promptly landed on when he fell from the Statue. How does he escape from that?"

Magneto can Fly can't he. He can fly and move metal at the same time can't he. Was it impossible for Magneto to use his powers to transport the machine up to the top of the statue of liberty? If Magneto did this in broad daylight I would agree with you. But, he didn't and he had his mutants kill all the people who were guarding the statue.
Who said Sabertooth survived? We never see him again do we.

"He destroys the whole complex in one shot, what happens to the battle sequence. I'm sure many of these stories would have made more sense if the bad guy simply annihilated the competiton."

I guess this can all be explained because in X-Men 3 magneto is older and became senile. Therefore he lacks the inteligence to come up with a great scheme for attacking Al-Catraz.



"I'm sorry if this comes as a small consolation." He was willing to kill Rogue because he wasn't willing to sacrifice himself, which Wolverine pointed out that if he was so righteous, he would have put himself in the machine. He could care less what happened to Rogue, as long as he got what he wanted."

But, he did not truely want to kill Rogue. He believed her sacrifice was for the greater good of all mutants and humans. In X-Men 3 there was no indication he gave killing Leech a second thought. There is a big difference in Magneto's attitude for these two films.

"In X2, he left the X-Men behind while he and Mystique (and Pyro) left in the helicopter. He knew that the dam was about to break."

This is not true. There was not one scene in X2 that convinced me he knew the damn would break. It that was true why did he go through all that trouble to change the settings in Cerebro 2, knowing his plan to kill all humans would not work due to Xavier drowning.

"He left Mystique after she was cured. He was about to kill Wolverine before Beast cured him. He "let the pawns go first" in the first wave of battle."

Which is why I did not like Magneto in X-Men 3 because he acted out of character too many times.

"He doesn't have a problem killing Leech."

See above answer.

 

[Theweepeople]

But they didn't...Wolverine did. Hence the popularity, and the likeliness of a spinoff.



But that's your opinion. They're not pinning a spinoff series just based on that one scene.

If all the X-Men movies are about wolverine then why not name the series "The adventures of Wolverine". Maybe one reason why X-Men 3 did not do well because it had too much Wolverine. There are many X-Men fans out there who wanted to see an X-Men movie. Not another story that focused on Wolverine.

 

[ntcrawler]

If all the X-Men movies are about wolverine then why not name the series "The adventures of Wolverine". Maybe one reason why X-Men 3 did not do well because it had too much Wolverine. There are many X-Men fans out there who wanted to see an X-Men movie. Not another story that focused on Wolverine.

So what's the point of doing a Wolverine spinoff then if we already got 3 movies essentially about Wolverine? Why not do an X-Men spinoff instead?

 

[Theweepeople]

So what's the point of doing a Wolverine spinoff then if we already got 3 movies essentially about Wolverine? Why not do an X-Men spinoff instead?

That is what I've been wondering. I have no desire to spend theater money on 3 more Wolverine movies.

 

[gambitfire]

You're confusing the fanbase. DaVinci Code isn't a comic book. There are two books with this character, not decades of comics and endless movie possibilities.

Now is that something to be extremely tampered with?

i saw Davinic Code it changed minor things it wasn't going to have the same impact as the book regardless but any drastic change done to that would be wrong, what makes X-3 the exception? Because we get more Wolverine/Storm, Hugh/Halle?! .

On another note I know some ppl don't mind about that nor do they care but try to see it from an upset fans point of view or one who doesn't care for those 2 characters.


Sorry just wanted to say something

 

[danoyse]

Magneto can Fly can't he. He can fly and move metal at the same time can't he. Was it impossible for Magneto to use his powers to transport the machine up to the top of the statue of liberty? If Magneto did this in broad daylight I would agree with you. But, he didn't and he had his mutants kill all the people who were guarding the statue.

Why would he fly everything with his powers over to the Statue of Liberty? He needed Rogue to power the machine. He needed a mode of transportation...and they used a boat. There were only 5 of them. In X3, he had an army...how many boats was it going to take to get all of them to Alcatraz without anyone noticing?

Who said Sabertooth survived? We never see him again do we.

No, but he left a great big hole in their getaway boat. Even the X-Men took the jet--and they're only in Westchester!

I guess this can all be explained because in X-Men 3 magneto is older and became senile. Therefore he lacks the inteligence to come up with a great scheme for attacking Al-Catraz.

So now he's senile??? OK, I'm laughing to much to respond to that.

But, he did not truely want to kill Rogue. He believed her sacrifice was for the greater good of all mutants and humans. In X-Men 3 there was no indication he gave killing Leech a second thought. There is a big difference in Magneto's attitude for these two films.

He didn't care one bit about Rogue. What about the mutants he sent into battle first. They were all either cured or killed, and he compared it to a chess game. "In chess, the pawns go first."

This is not true. There was not one scene in X2 that convinced me he knew the damn would break. It that was true why did he go through all that trouble to change the settings in Cerebro 2, knowing his plan to kill all humans would not work due to Xavier drowning.

He was there when Cyclops attacked Jean and damaged the structure. The alarms were going off before they left. He left Charles under the power of a dangerous mutant so Charles could kill off all of the humans...he obviously felt the Professor was expendable to the cause too.

Which is why I did not like Magneto in X-Men 3 because he acted out of character too many times.

Actually, I thought this was best performance in the trilogy.

 

[Theweepeople]

Why would he fly everything with his powers over to the Statue of Liberty? He needed Rogue to power the machine. He needed a mode of transportation...and they used a boat. There were only 5 of them. In X3, he had an army...how many boats was it going to take to get all of them to Alcatraz without anyone noticing?"

I don't know what point you are trying to make with the first sentences. I have been in small cruise ships before that can easily fit over 50 people. Sheez. 15 people could hide in the bathroom.



"No, but he left a great big hole in their getaway boat."

Magneto was captured. Toad died. Sabertooth probably died and Raven disguised herself.

" Even the X-Men took the jet--and they're only in Westchester!"

Well it depends on how much time passed after the X-Men fought the brotherhood of evil mutants and rescued rogue. You do know the X-Jet had a radar disruption device don't you.

"So now he's senile??? OK, I'm laughing to much to respond to that."

Yep, I thought this was pretty funny to. To bad it's the only logical explaination for why Magneto's tactical skills were gone in this film.



"He didn't care one bit about Rogue. What about the mutants he sent into battle first. They were all either cured or killed, and he compared it to a chess game. "In chess, the pawns go first."

Fair enough. Except in X-Men 3 there was no hesitation to kill Leech.


"He was there when Cyclops attacked Jean and damaged the structure. The alarms were going off before they left. He left Charles under the power of a dangerous mutant so Charles could kill off all of the humans...he obviously felt the Professor was expendable to the cause too."

Magneto probably figured that the X-Men and Xavier were resourceful enough to get out of the complex.




"Actually, I thought this was best performance in the trilogy."

Your opinion once again.

 

[ntcrawler]

"I don't know what point you are trying to make with the first sentences. I have been in small cruise ships before that can easily fit over 50 people. Sheez. 15 people could hide in the bathroom."

Yeah but see that would actually be logical and make sense. When is the last time you saw a movie where the heroes or villains usually used the most logical, effective, simple solution to accomplish something? Something that would make you clap your hands and go "that was brilliant!?

"Magneto was captured. Toad died. Sabertooth probably died and Raven disguised herself. "

I was about to comment that Wolverine's claws don't seem to be as lethal as they're made out to be. He skewered Mystique good and we saw her go down, yet she was alive enough to transform herself and be picked up by paramedics. Makes you wonder about what could have been with Jean's outcome.

"Well it depends on how much time passed after the X-Men fought the brotherhood of evil mutants and rescued rogue. You do know the X-Jet had a radar disruption device don't you."

I'm surprised it doesn't have basic countermeasures against missiles (hint hint: missile attack in X2)

"Yep, I thought this was pretty funny to. To bad it's the only logical explaination for why Magneto's tactical skills were gone in this film."

I thought it was because his schemes became more and more diabolical, and less logical. Catapulting flaming cars at his enemies was poetic, but not very effective tactically (although the psychological factor must have been good, yet it ends up looking like a bad heavy metal video, or the fighting scene from Johnny Mnemonic). Breaking up a car into little pieces and then launching those pieces at supersonic speeds back and forth across Alcatraz would have been far more deadly and frightening (a la his escape sequence in X2).
Also, Doesn't his power have some type of maximum effective range? Should be about what the size of his plastic holding complex was. I know it's a small nitpick but the other side of the bridge should have been free of his magnetic influence then.

"He didn't care one bit about Rogue. What about the mutants he sent into battle first. They were all either cured or killed, and he compared it to a chess game. "In chess, the pawns go first."

"Fair enough. Except in X-Men 3 there was no hesitation to kill Leech."

That too. I was actually pretty shocked to see about how easily he sacrificed his brother mutants like that, after that passionate speech he gave earlier about how all mutants must stick together, etc.

"Magneto probably figured that the X-Men and Xavier were resourceful enough to get out of the complex. "

That and they'd be pretty mad when they found out what he tried to do. Makes sense that he didn't want to stick around. The helicopter was very convenient.

 

[ntcrawler]

If all the X-Men movies are about wolverine then why not name the series "The adventures of Wolverine". Maybe one reason why X-Men 3 did not do well because it had too much Wolverine. There are many X-Men fans out there who wanted to see an X-Men movie. Not another story that focused on Wolverine.

Brilliant script writing. A story about the Phoenix that focuses on Wolverine.