Return of the Jedi special edition ramblings

[Timstuff]

Okay first of all, I should establish this-- I actually thought that the SE of ROTJ was pretty good. I was able to overlook the rather silly "Jedi Rocks" musical number that they added, because it got rid of a far more annoying problem-- the irritating "Yub Yub" song at the end. When the ROTJ SE came out back in '97, I thought that the improvements were mostly good. And the DVD got rid of the matlines which bothered me oh-so-much. If George Lucas had just gotten rid of the matlines for the whole trilogy and called it a day, I think the SE's would have been a worthwhile endevour. Overall though, ROTJ didn't change much when it went SE compared to the first two movies.

However, there's one change that he made specifically for the 2004 DVD re-release, and it annoys me to no end. I simply cannot wrap my head around it, because it annoys me so greatly. And what I am reffering to, is the fact that they replaced the final shot of Sebastian Shaw with a new shot of Hayden Christensen.

Original from the 80's

2004 DVD release

Seriously, WTF? I know George Lucas explained it in the commentary, but in all honesty, even if we're speaking with an open-minded, non-purist attitude, the explanation was very convoluted, and when you watch it it's nothing but a gaping hole in logic.

Lucas said that Anakin appears young because that's how he was before he turned evil... But if you'll handily notice, Anakin didn't die until HE WAS OLD, after he had GONE BACK TO BEING GOOD. The Anakin that we saw in the original was after he saved Luke from death by the emperor, and sentimentally asked him to help him take his mask off, then died and became one with the force. Doesn't it make more sense for THAT version of Anakin to be the one Luke sees at the end?

Half the excitement of that shot is that you get to see what Anakin looks like as an old man, in pure form. Also, Luke was seeing his father as he truly is now that he's gone back to being good, not as the mechanized monster that he had become during his years as a sith. And that just doesn't work when Anakin is the same age as him. How can Luke look at Anakin as being his father, when he doesn't even look old enough to be his father? It all just seems awkward now.

Oh well, if there's one thing we know about Lucas, it's that he's not done screwing around with the movies yet. He got rid of Luke's annoying yelling in Empire Strikes Back when fans complained, so maybe for the next release of ROTJ, he'll change back that last shot of Anakin. I still don't expect him to make Han shoot Greedo first in A New Hope (even though he still shoots first in every friggin' gunfight in the movie except that one), and I wouldn't hold my breath about him changing Boba Fett's voice back to what it was in Empire Strikes Back... But a guy can always dream.

Maybe for the Blu-Ray release of the trilogy they should have a "make your own edition" feature. Maybe that would finally put all this fussing to rest.

 

[FaT_tONle]

THe original trilogy has now been ruined now that Hayden has entered... Lord help me...

 

[CrimsonMist]

im not a Star Wars geek by any means, so please excuse this question:

are the ORIGINAL theatrical versions of the films coming out on DVD(were they the ones recently advertised everywhere?), and are they worth getting? Or is there another edition out there that's better?

Im aware that Lucas changed up alot in the original movies, but i dont get what releases have them and what dont. Would someone mind explaining what happened or point me to somewhere that explains?

 

[Grim Goblin]

hmm well this is old news but I get what you're saying Timstuff and I agree 100%

 

[Spidey-Bat]

im not a Star Wars geek by any means, so please excuse this question:

are the ORIGINAL theatrical versions of the films coming out on DVD(were they the ones recently advertised everywhere?), and are they worth getting? Or is there another edition out there that's better?

The new DVDs that come out this week are the unedited versions except they are non-anamorphic. I don't know exactly what that means but it's not very good.

 

[Lantern Venom]

Original from the 80's

2004 DVD release

Seriously, WTF? I know George Lucas explained it in the commentary, but in all honesty, even if we're speaking with an open-minded, non-purist attitude, the explanation was very convoluted, and when you watch it it's nothing but a gaping hole in logic.

Just a way to sell more DVDs. I was unaware of the change until I actually saw it and I thought it was a nice surprise. Purists can just watch the old DVDs. Fans of all 6 can watch the new Spec.-Ed.

 

[Timstuff]

I already bought the exact same discs in 2004, minus the second disc containing the original cuts. And the original cuts have very poor picture quality, because they are rips from the 1994 laser-discs since Lucas was too cheap and lazy to make a transfer from the actual negatives (or he knows people will pay to buy the better versions later). I know he had an excuse for why he did it, but it's pretty much universally agreed that Lucas was talking out of his arse and he's just holding out on everyone for monetary reasons.

And if you're watching the entire saga for the first time in order, it's more of a surprise to see Anakin as an un-scarred old man than it is to see Hayden Christensen. There's three moviesworth of Hayden, but only a few shots worth of Sebastian Shaw. Cutting him is not only a disservice to the movie, but a disservice to Shaw's portrayal of Anakin as well. Even if it was a very short and minor appearance, Shaw was the face Darth Vader and Luke's father, Anakin. There are little changes like Boba Fett's voice and whatnot that are annoying, but this change IMO is just as bad, and maybe even worse than Greedo shooting first.

 

[Iceman]

It doesn't make a whole lot of sense, as with many last minute Lucas changes.

 

[Lantern Venom]

sons.

. Cutting him is not only a disservice to the movie, but a disservice to Shaw's portrayal of Anakin as well. Even if it was a very short and minor appearance, Shaw was the face Darth Vader and Luke's father, Anakin. .

Times change. Like I said, we have both versions so I only see this as a positive addition.

 

[Farren]

Shaw will always be my Force-ghost-Anakin.

 

[Timstuff]

Times change. Like I said, we have both versions so I only see this as a positive addition.

How is it a positive addition if it was better before, and the new one doesn't make sense?

 

[Addendum]

Especially since Hayden was 2 YEARS OLD when Return of the Jedi was released

 

[Lantern Venom]

How is it a positive addition if it was better before, and the new one doesn't make sense?

It does make sense. Anakin went back to the version of himself before it was polluted by the Dark Side. He's a ghost. I don't think strict logical parameters apply.

 

[Addendum]

Has logic ever applied to George Lucas?

 

[tinister]

I watched the ROTJ dvd with my 11-year-old nephew and 9-year-old niece when it first came out.

And when the ghost of young Anakin appeared - even the kids were asking WTH? LOL

And my niece didn't recognize Anakin because he's got that Bee Gees fro - so she was totally confused.

Which brings up another gap in logic:

No one ever showed Luke a picture of his father as a young man. Luke's only image of his father is Vader and the old Shaw Anakin.

So imagine being Luke - you've just seen your father's face for the first (and the last time). Then you watch your father's body burning. Overall - a bitter sweet day. Then you see the ghost of Kenobi (you feel better), then the ghost of Yoda (you feel even better - and you have a feeling who the next ghost will be) - and then - SURPRISE!!!

WHO THE F*** is the long haired punk?!!! Where's my father?!!!

George Lucas is a dumbass.

 

[Timstuff]

It does make sense. Anakin went back to the version of himself before it was polluted by the Dark Side. He's a ghost. I don't think strict logical parameters apply.

Okay, so what happened to the Anakin that saved Luke from the emperor and died on the death star? And how come Obi-Wan is still old? Shouldn't they have replaced his ghost with Ian McGreggor in Empire and Jedi?

 

[Edd Extraordinaire]

Okay first of all, I should establish this-- I actually thought that the SE of ROTJ was pretty good. I was able to overlook the rather silly "Jedi Rocks" musical number that they added, because it got rid of a far more annoying problem-- the irritating "Yub Yub" song at the end. When the ROTJ SE came out back in '97, I thought that the improvements were mostly good. And the DVD got rid of the matlines which bothered me oh-so-much. If George Lucas had just gotten rid of the matlines for the whole trilogy and called it a day, I think the SE's would have been a worthwhile endevour. Overall though, ROTJ didn't change much when it went SE compared to the first two movies.

However, there's one change that he made specifically for the 2004 DVD re-release, and it annoys me to no end. I simply cannot wrap my head around it, because it annoys me so greatly. And what I am reffering to, is the fact that they replaced the final shot of Sebastian Shaw with a new shot of Hayden Christensen.

Original from the 80's

2004 DVD release

Seriously, WTF? I know George Lucas explained it in the commentary, but in all honesty, even if we're speaking with an open-minded, non-purist attitude, the explanation was very convoluted, and when you watch it it's nothing but a gaping hole in logic.

Lucas said that Anakin appears young because that's how he was before he turned evil... But if you'll handily notice, Anakin didn't die until HE WAS OLD, after he had GONE BACK TO BEING GOOD. The Anakin that we saw in the original was after he saved Luke from death by the emperor, and sentimentally asked him to help him take his mask off, then died and became one with the force. Doesn't it make more sense for THAT version of Anakin to be the one Luke sees at the end?

Half the excitement of that shot is that you get to see what Anakin looks like as an old man, in pure form. Also, Luke was seeing his father as he truly is now that he's gone back to being good, not as the mechanized monster that he had become during his years as a sith. And that just doesn't work when Anakin is the same age as him. How can Luke look at Anakin as being his father, when he doesn't even look old enough to be his father? It all just seems awkward now.

Oh well, if there's one thing we know about Lucas, it's that he's not done screwing around with the movies yet. He got rid of Luke's annoying yelling in Empire Strikes Back when fans complained, so maybe for the next release of ROTJ, he'll change back that last shot of Anakin. I still don't expect him to make Han shoot Greedo first in A New Hope (even though he still shoots first in every friggin' gunfight in the movie except that one), and I wouldn't hold my breath about him changing Boba Fett's voice back to what it was in Empire Strikes Back... But a guy can always dream.

Maybe for the Blu-Ray release of the trilogy they should have a "make your own edition" feature. Maybe that would finally put all this fussing to rest.

Well, in retrospect, Anakin never really looked like that "pure form". He had been scarred since he had looked like Hayden.

 

[swifty]

you nailed it Timstuff. It only shows it even further how stupid the decision of Lucas changing Old Anakin with young Anakin was. It's either that or Lucas is pure genius, I think he deliberately made these awful changes(Greedo shooting first, change of Boba Fet's voice, stupid muppets show at Jabba's Palace, replaced old Anaking with young) so when he does re-release the fixed high quality versions on either Hd-dvd or BD down the road, people will buy them without hesitation.


it only makes sense.

I know Lucas is releasing the theatrical versions out on dvd for a limited time but unfortunately are not restored like the special edition, so that means more money for Lucas when he does release the hybrid version.

 

[Edd Extraordinaire]

Okay, so what happened to the Anakin that saved Luke from the emperor and died on the death star? And how come Obi-Wan is still old? Shouldn't they have replaced his ghost with Ian McGreggor in Empire and Jedi?

Ewan. Maybe a younger Yoda too?

 

[StarWarsAgent]

For the Record. I like the Special editions more than the old versions. For obvious reasons.

 

[Iceman]

For the Record. I like the Special editions more than the old versions. For obvious reasons.

I prefer a lot of aspects of the special editions with a few glaring (obvious) exceptions.

 

[StarWarsAgent]

You have to ask yourselves...just ignore star wars for a moment..when you buy a DVD would you rather buy the special edition? Collectors editon? director's cut?..I'd rather have the special edition of any DVD. For example, I want to get the special edition of Titanic, because it has more features and extra scenes..

You guys have to understand, deleted scenes, documentaries, effects..anything to add to the movie is better than just having the original version..from a marketing point of view..


I've already lived all my life watching the regular version of the star wars OT, I think I have about 20 VHS tapes..It got a little old after a while..hence why I love the PT so much...It was fun, new and different.

 

[Iceman]

If someone owns both versions it's probably better that there are controversial differences, even if some of them don't make sense.

 

[Timstuff]

Ewan. Maybe a younger Yoda too?

I left out the W in my miss-spelling. So ontop of being a bad spelling, i full of tipoes, I aren't?

*kidding around*

 

[Timstuff]

Anyway, it's one thing to make special effects better... It's another thing to change around the story. And on that note, it's one thing to re-insert deleted scenes, but it's another thing to alter the story and even acting in scenes that are already there. Lucas went beyond "special edition" with the Star Wars movies, end entered the territory of "fiddled around with edition". Greedo shooting first altered a fundamental part of Han Solo's character (shoot first, ask questions later), and replacing Shaw with Christensen in Jedi (seeing old Anakin in "pure" form). And beyond that, there's nitpicking things like Boba Fett's voice and whatnot. I can understand the Ian McDirmond emperor scene in Empire, and that was actually not such a bad change since it tightened things up a little bit (even though I think they could have filmed it better).

The point is, GL went beyond making the movies look better, cleaner, more consistant, whatever. He wanted to change the actual actors because he thought they needed tweaking, and they clearly did not.