Returns or 89?

[Travesty]

Wow I did not notice that. Was there a reason for it and was that also the car Selina was driving?

Ha, I forgot about that. She was driving a VW Bug.

But next time you watch BR, check out every car. The Taxis and every car, even the ones that The Batmobile plows through are ALL the same, just different colors.

And I'm not sure what cars they are, but they look like old Jettas, or some kind of VW with the VW label cut out, and a light replacing it in the middle.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

I'm actually watching BR right now, and I have the commentary on, and I can't stand listening to Burton talk. The guy says "ya know" every two seconds, ya know?

Funny punchline

There is a joke to be scene here, right?

 

[Travesty]

Funny punchline

There is a joke to be scene here, right?

Ya know, it's true, ya know, that while listening to, ya know, ummmmmm, ya know, Burton, ummm, ya know, talk, he ummm, ya know, he says "ya know", like ummmm, ya know, a lot. Ya know?

It's true, though. Just listen to the guy.

 

[ALP]

Agreed, Burton is one of my favorite filmmakers but when he is alone on his commentaries, it's dreadful to listen to. The absolute worst is the commentary on Edward Scissorhands. He mumbles, has no clue what to say, and half way through the film stops talking and returns 30 minutes later wtf lol

But what the hell, I like him so much I've listened to all of his commentaries(except for Charlie b/c that one is very rare to find and not on blu-ray or dvd). His best commentaries are on Pee Wee's Big Adventure in which he's joined by Paul Reubens and Big Fish where the commentary is just him being interviewed by Salisbury I think. He only does a good commentary when he has someone to bounce around with him.

 

[Travesty]

Agreed, Burton is one of my favorite filmmakers but when he is alone on his commentaries, it's dreadful to listen to.

He's been one of my favorites ever since I saw Pee Wees Big Adventure and Beetlejuice when I was very young. Then, B89 came out, and again, he didn't disappoint.

I still like his stuff, but his earlier movies were better, IMO. Also, I wish he would start using different actors for his movies, besides using Depp all the time. I love Depp, and he's one of my favorites, but it just gets stale seeing a director use the same actors in all their movies. Nolan is also going down this route, which I hope he stops. After TDKR, I hope we don't see Caine in another Nolan movie. Again, I love Caine, but it just gets old.....

 

[ALP]

I don't really have a big problem with Burton using the same actors as long as they do a good job. Thing is, movies like Alice in Wonderland were the exact opposite of good. Sweeney is the only film this decade I'd call a Burton masterpiece...he's not as good as he use to be but I still like him. I plonked down $100 for his latest art book after all. Would love the Elfman box set but i don't have that kind of money!

I love Johnny Depp and Christopher Lee. On the other hand I feel like Bonham Carter added almost nothing to any of the Burton films she's been cast in besides Sweeney. She's never the main character(except voicing the CB) so I don't mind but even her Red Queen didn't quite do it for me(like I said, just couldn't enjoy the overall film). I thought his Wonka film was much better- although Wilder's Wonka was GOAT. But as I've said countless times before, Burton from the 80-90s has my favorite filmography, not a single film I do not love. Big Adventure introduced me to Pee Wee Herman and he's been my favorite character ever since. And Beetlejuice was masterful and hilarious.

Funny because I watched very very few films as a little kid, not till I was in America. But I happened to have come across a few greats by Burton and am very thankful. The only greater poet of childhood than Tim Burton is well...check my avvy for the answert:

Oh and I actually hope Nolan uses gary Oldman and Morgan Freeman in a film outside Batman

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Ya know, it's true, ya know, that while listening to, ya know, ummmmmm, ya know, Burton, ummm, ya know, talk, he ummm, ya know, he says "ya know", like ummmm, ya know, a lot. Ya know?

It's true, though. Just listen to the guy.

LOL
I asked cause the last thing you said in that post is "Ya Know", and not with quoting Mr. Burton

 

[Travesty]

LOL
I asked cause the last thing you said in that post is "Ya Know", and not with quoting Mr. Burton

Oh, ha, yeah, I did that on purpose.

 

[El Payaso]

Burton started weak but when he evolved into a stroing filmmaker almost every thing he made was gold. Batman, Edward Scossorhands, Batman retrurns, The Nightmare Before Christmas and Ed Wood were all masterpieces to me (and every time Depp was there it was refreshing and just great). I even accepted Mars Attacks! as a fun entertaining parody. But after that he has been weak or not as good as before. Sure, he made Big Fish and Sweeney Todd but the rest is just average (and Depp is no longer challenging himself to better things).

I love Caine, but it just gets old.....

Well, every man has to age.

 

[GothamAlleys]

More than that, I can't think of a single concrete thing that really dates Batman Returns to having been made back in '92, that ties it to that year in any way.

I know, Returns does wonders in this area. You cant really put a year on it or, of course, identify any specific city. Its both timeless and "placeless", and the operatic score also helps to maintain that

 

[ALP]

Not that I necessarily see it that way but it's an interesting take that some people view Returns as a dark dream. BR represents Bruce Wayne having a nightmare and both Catwoman and Penguin serve as extensions of himself. Penguin represents Wayne through a looking glass. Whereas Bruce lost his parents by force(being killed), Penguin lost his parents by choice(abandoning him). Both men hide from the world in their own dark recesses(Wayne Manor and the sewers) before making a grand theatrical entrance and catching Gotham by storm. The press at first loves The Penguin before learning his true evil nature and then they abandon him. Batman, through the looking glass, is at first viewed with great skepticism before being embraced by the public. On the other hand it is Catwoman who represents Wayne's duality and his method of dealing with torment. Their lifes are almost meaningless until they don their costumes and become more than just man(or woman).

And the terrific line, "You're just jealous because I'm a genuine freak and you have to wear a mask." "You might be right."

 

[Hobgoblin]

In a way, I saw BR's Penguin as an opposite of Batman. Joker usually gets that honor, but here, Penguin makes good points as well. Both Wayne and Cobblepot come from wealthy, almost aristocratic families. It almost made me wonder if Thomas and Martha had known the Cobblepots, in one way or another. Whereas Bruce has a philanthropic side, Oswald is purely the elitist. Bruce never seems to notice his wealth, but when he does, he mocks it. "You know, I dont think I've ever been in this room." Oswald, on the other hand, does nothing but talk about his lost social status. "I wasnt born in a sewer, ya know." "Reclaim my birthright?" "They wouldnt put me on a pedestal, so I'm layin em out on a slab!"

 

[returntovoid]

Not that I necessarily see it that way but it's an interesting take that some people view Returns as a dark dream.

I've never heard a theory that Returns was a nightmare.

It's not the first time I heard a theory like this, many thought the ending for Martin Scorsese's Taxi Driver was a dream sequence and that Travis Bickle died but it's just a theory.

 

[ALP]

I've never heard a theory that Returns was a nightmare.

It's not the first time I heard a theory like this, many thought the ending for Martin Scorsese's Taxi Driver was a dream sequence and that Travis Bickle died but it's just a theory.

Well it's such a fantasy that it can be taken that way. I don't particularly think it's true but it's an interesting to think about.

Are you a big Burton fan? You should check out The Collectives, they use to always analyze Burton films in different ways, it's slower these days though.

There's also really interesting takes in the books, Tim Burton: A Child's Garden of Nightmares and Burton: Animating Live Action. Tons of 'em out there.

 

[El Payaso]

Are you a big Burton fan? You should check out The Collectives, they use to always analyze Burton films in different ways, it's slower these days though.

Were you part of the Burton Collective, and if so, who?

 

[ALP]

Were you part of the Burton Collective, and if so, who?

Ah yes, before the apocalypse I joined around '06 as Baltus Van Tassel. What can I say, Michael Gambon is bosst:

I wasn't an earlier member, I know some go back as far as 2000! Good times though, four years ago. And then it was gone. Were you a member?

 

[El Payaso]

Ah yes, before the apocalypse I joined around '06 as Baltus Van Tassel. What can I say, Michael Gambon is bosst:

I wasn't an earlier member, I know some go back as far as 2000! Good times though, four years ago. And then it was gone. Were you a member?

I was there for quite some time. I remember I started some riots. But I suspect we should continue this chat by PM.

 

[Elevator Man]

You do realize that factor is a reason why numerous films are re-made? You're telling someone they should stop watching movies if they don't like that certain ones are dated yet that is why the movie makers do exactly what they do. Guillermo Del Toro is writing and producing the remake of "Don't Be Afraid of the Dark" because he said he loved the original as a kid but felt it was very out-dated and could use a modernization. Are you so daft you think a brilliant filmmaker like Del Toro also needs to "grow up" and "get over it" because he's remaking a film he thinks is outdated?

Some of us just love timeless films. The '31 rendition of Dracula I feel is incredibly out-dated, so much that I cannot enjoy the overall product. It has a nice atmosphere and a great Dracula(Lugosi remains my favorite) but because of the censors at the time, the film lacks far too many elements to be a good Dracula film. On the other hand, the '57 rendition of Dracula starring Christopher Lee and our very own Michael Gough holds up incredibly well. The effects are still brilliant, the cinematography gorgeous, and the story is paced well unlike the 30s version. Wizard of Oz from '39 is another film I absolutely love for the same reasons, it still looks gorgeous to this very day. It holds up well and has a nice timeless quality to it. And to not go too much further, there are also films that serve as pop culture vessels. They are dated and work perfectly that way such as The Goonies and The Lost Boys as Cain mentioned.

But to criticize someone and suggest they should stop watching films for saying they don't like certain things that out-date films is just flat out stupid. Especially when you don't even know their full reasons(I've just explained mine).

First off I wasn't talking to you. Second you're making matters worse using Del Toro as an example about why movies are being remade because they are outdated. Which is BULL. Here's a reality check for you if you think that. Hollywood is only remaking movies b/c they are completely out of ideas. Sure the TPTB will use "the film is dated" excuse and the "it's more closer to the book "routine (Burton is guilty of that one himself).

Back to Del Toro. You talk about Del Toro like he's 100% original. When this was the man who was going to direct the Hobbit (which is based off a book, of course). He's also the man who directed the Hellboy movies which didn't come out of his head but from a comic book. He also has a few more movies he's trying to remake that you didn't mention. Frankenstein (for the 50 billionth time) and At the Mountains of Madness. So if you thouight that was clever using Del Toro for an example ? It wasn't.

Btw, I'm a admirer of his work and don't hate him or his films. Just to get that clear.

A lot of directors(Burton, Del Toro, Jackson, Zemechis, Bay, to name a few) are guilty of remaking movies and used the "updating and closer to the book" excuse, which I don't have a problem with. If the movie wasn't worth being remade after seeing the final product. That's the problem.

Another thing sometimes TPTB want to remake a movie to use CGI effects like b/c the other films effects are outdated. The recent Clash of the Titans and Nightmare on Elm St. remake are guilty of this. As well as cash in on old franchises. So they remake or reboot them

I was ticked b/c he act like movies came out yesterday. Yeah of course the original star trek tv series came out in the sixties. He'd known that if he'd paid any attention to what year the show came out before he started watching it. I'll give another example yeah Superman the movie came out in the 70s. You can tell by the clothing, hairstyle, and the way things looked then. Does that stop that movie from still being a good movie. Or a good movie at all looking at it for the first time today.

I just couldn't get over that. B/c of a movies age and how it ages turns him off ? Every movie ages, TDK, Tron Legacy, Avatar, Thor (2011), Inception, Black Swan, Green Lantern (2011), etc.etc. Everything ages. They will age b/c of the way technology and the actors look now won't look that way 10-20 years from now.

Thet really bothered me. If a song was written in the eighties with an artist who was popular in the eighties (and still is) with eighties sounding instruments in an eighties movie. Then yeah it's gonna sound eighties and dated but that's not the film's or anybody involved with the film and music's fault b/c it was made and came out in the 80s. So he needs to get over it.

 

[ALP]

First off I wasn't talking to you.

This means what to me? If you only one one person to read and reply to your message you should try private messaging.

Back to Del Toro. You talk about Del Toro like he's 100% original. When this was the man who was going to direct the Hobbit (which is based off a book, of course). He's also the man who directed the Hellboy movies which didn't come out of his head but from a comic book. He also has a few more movies he's trying to remake that you didn't mention. Frankenstein (for the 50 billionth time) and At the Mountains of Madness. So if you thouight that was clever using Del Toro for an example ? It wasn't.

No, you said one needs to grow up and get over it if they don't like if a film is dated. A professional like Del Toro has specifically said he feels certain films are dated which is why he is specifically re-making one. Therefore, does he too need to grow up and get over it?

Because I'd take his opinion over yours just about any day of the week.

 

[Elevator Man]

This means what to me? If you only one one person to read and reply to your message you should try private messaging.



No, you said one needs to grow up and get over it if they don't like if a film is dated. A professional like Del Toro has specifically said he feels certain films are dated which is why he is specifically re-making one. Therefore, does he too need to grow up and get over it?

Because I'd take his opinion over yours just about any day of the week.

You can take a dog's opinion over mines any day of the week for all I care. I was just defending my comment.

BTW, I don't remember Del Toro saying that he refuses to look at a movie b/c of it's age and how dated it is. Like the original poster (I originally was replying to) was saying. All Del toro is doing is remaking a movie b/c he believes it's dated. That's what you said. So how does Del Toro really have anything to do with the oriiginal poster i was replying to said ?
HUH?

 

[ALP]

You can take a dog's opinion over mines any day of the week for all I care. I was just defending my comment.

BTW, I don't remember Del Toro saying that he refuses to look at a movie b/c of it's age and how dated it is. Like the original poster (I originally was replying to) was saying. All Del toro is doing is remaking a movie b/c he believes it's dated. That's what you said. So how does Del Toro really have anything to do with the oriiginal poster i was replying to said ?

I have addressed every point you have raised and your current reply is now about as relevant as ma rainey's black bottom.

 

[returntovoid]

Are you a big Burton fan?

Yup, I'm a sucker for atmospheric films.

 

[Cain]

Not that I necessarily see it that way but it's an interesting take that some people view Returns as a dark dream. BR represents Bruce Wayne having a nightmare and both Catwoman and Penguin serve as extensions of himself. Penguin represents Wayne through a looking glass. Whereas Bruce lost his parents by force(being killed), Penguin lost his parents by choice(abandoning him). Both men hide from the world in their own dark recesses(Wayne Manor and the sewers) before making a grand theatrical entrance and catching Gotham by storm. The press at first loves The Penguin before learning his true evil nature and then they abandon him. Batman, through the looking glass, is at first viewed with great skepticism before being embraced by the public. On the other hand it is Catwoman who represents Wayne's duality and his method of dealing with torment. Their lifes are almost meaningless until they don their costumes and become more than just man(or woman).

And the terrific line, "You're just jealous because I'm a genuine freak and you have to wear a mask." "You might be right."

I view it this way not the nightmare thing though Gotham could be representative of Bruce's psyche since it's so cluttered and a character in itself. I view it this way though because the movie is obviously expressionistic in it's execution and everything in bold lends itself to that very well since that's a big element of expressionistic cinema. Using supporting characters and the backdrops as a window into the mind of the protagonist. Also Shreck was another warped perspective of Bruce himself as well. The businessman and socialite.

 

[ALP]

Nice assessment Cain, I had forgotten about Shreck.

I remember reading that TAS was originally going to use Max Shreck but instead decided to create Roland Daggett(the guy who owned the cosmetic company that ruined Clayface). I think it would have been a brilliant choice to introduce Shreck, but on the other hand, the character died in BR! But it's a different continuity so I suppose it wasn't a big deal. Would have been genius had Walken did the voice hehe.

 

[Elevator Man]

I have addressed every point you have raised and your current reply is now about as relevant as ma rainey's black bottom.

Like i said i don't care how relevant my comments are to you. Do me and yourself a favor and mind your own business and don't respond to my comments if "my comments are relevant as ma rainey's black bottom."