The Dark Knight Rises Riddle Me This: The Riddler Characterization Thread

[Jolly C.]

Good point...they could try to top the films story by using the riddler such as making the whole film develop into a big plot in the end...Personally i think they should have 3 villains: Talia al ghul(which would link to the first movie), she could be the love intrest for bruce wayne, Black Mask who can go after bruce wayne and try to ruin his life, And the riddler who is fixed on trying to know who batman is. It seems to me like a good choice of villains. What do you think?

 

[ronny]

No Black Mask in this movie please.
I want to see Roman Sionis and Tommy Elliot first, pave the ground for both Hush and Black Mask in future movies.
It should be The Riddler as the main villain with Penguin as a side character.

As for Talia, I don't think she needs to be in this movie. Perhaps Catwoman, if she is done right. As someone the audience can respect and not some sex-crazed simpleton who threatens the people she saves.

 

[Rasputin911]

Ahem...to get back to the Riddler...

I think the Fed Angle is the best idea so far. That way he avoids becoming a Joker rip-off or a Jigsaw-lite. He is brought in to hunt down the Batman, and slowly becomes obsessed with his prey. His obsession drives him to commit abusive, evil acts in his pursuit, such as torturing suspects or making deals with criminals or commiting crimes and framing Batman. He transforms from an eccentric investigator into a psychotic megalomaniac as the film progresses. Becomes a menace to Gotham.

The lengths he goes to find Batman could open the door for political analogies as well.

The theme could be obsession: his with finding Batman (solving the riddle), and Batman's with protecting Gotham.

 

[ronny]

He should be a travelling conman. Having used his Riddler persona throughout the country to rob banks and using the persona of well-to-do Edward Nygma to commit low-level fraud.
However, it should be Batman who makes Nashton decide to commit wholly to The Riddler persona. He's a man who has always been able to outsmart the cops. But when confronted with a superior mind he should lose it completely.
There is a reason he gets put in Arkham after all.

 

[Jick]

if Riddler's objective is simply rob banks and outsmart cops...than he will be way below Joker.

 

[Jolly C.]

Roman Sionas and Tommy Elliot should be in the movie but im saying have Roman Sionas develop into the black mask and tommy elliot could be like a teaser for future films if they use hush. Nolan has said that he didnt want Penguin because he was to tricky to portray and as for Catwomen she could be used but they will have to make her as solid as they can and not screw it up because she has a bad rep from the knock off film and idk she could work if they used her to her full potentual...Talia still seems like the right idea though, she can come back to gotham in revenge of her father or continue what he started...


But anyway back to the Riddler

I like the idea of Riddler being a private detective for the police...he could be sent to investigate on the joker and how he burned all that money or some kind of federal purpose and then his attention draws towards batman and he eventually is obsessed with finding batman but idk theres alot of good scenerios for the riddler.

 

[ronny]

if Riddler's objective is simply rob banks and outsmart cops...than he will be way below Joker.

Which is a good thing. Because it shows the audience how great a threat The Joker is. Even the other freaks can't compete with him.
That way when he is eventually recast it will be all the better.
The Riddler should struggle to acomplish what is routine for The Joker.

Roman Sionas and Tommy Elliot should be in the movie but im saying have Roman Sionis develop into the black mask and tommy elliot could be like a teaser for future films if they use Hush.

That could work. I want Roman to be paired with Mr. Earle from Batman Begins. It makes sense that his firing would come back to haunt Bruce. And how better to show this than by having Earle help Black Mask bleed Bruce Wayne dry?

 

[Melkay]

Ahem...to get back to the Riddler...

I think the Fed Angle is the best idea so far. That way he avoids becoming a Joker rip-off or a Jigsaw-lite. He is brought in to hunt down the Batman, and slowly becomes obsessed with his prey. His obsession drives him to commit abusive, evil acts in his pursuit, such as torturing suspects or making deals with criminals or commiting crimes and framing Batman. He transforms from an eccentric investigator into a psychotic megalomaniac as the film progresses. Becomes a menace to Gotham.

The lengths he goes to find Batman could open the door for political analogies as well.

The theme could be obsession: his with finding Batman (solving the riddle), and Batman's with protecting Gotham.

Amen

 

[Jolly C.]

Robbing banks is pointless because the joker made a point that money wasnt important( burning the pyramid of cash). The Riddler should just be fixed on Batman and maybe have a big plot in the process of figuring out who batman is?

 

[ronny]

Robbing banks is pointless because the joker made a point that money wasnt important( burning the pyramid of cash). The Riddler should just be fixed on Batman and maybe have a big plot in the process of figuring out who batman is?

But money is important to The Riddler, it means he can have his flashy green suit and be respected. With The Riddler it's all about status and ego.
Therefore he cares about his money a great deal.

 

[Jick]

Which is a good thing. Because it shows the audience how great a threat The Joker is. Even the other freaks can't compete with him.

so, is it a good thing for you when the villain of a sequel is still shadowed by its predecessor and does smaller things? a sequel is supposed to be greater in all of the aspects, 'cause, if not, then why make it?
sorry, but I think bigger, and I'm sure Nolan does too.

 

[ronny]

so, is it a good thing for you when the villain of a sequel is still shadowed by its predecessor and does smaller things? a sequel is supposed to be greater in all of the aspects, 'cause, if not, then why make it?
sorry, but I think bigger, and I'm sure Nolan does too.

A smaller scheme sure, but with greater thought and planning. That would provide the drama for the entire film. With The Riddler preparing his scheme and Batman trying to stay ahead of him.
Yeah, it could work. But as I've already said, it would never be able to compete with the action-orientated style of The Dark Knight.

 

[Jick]

of course it can. read my post in the previous page.

 

[ronny]

of course it can. read my post in the previous page.

I read it and I don't care much for your idea.
The idea that The Riddler would try and bring Gotham together through blowing stuff up is just silly.
He doesn't have aspirations as grand as that. All his motivations can be summed up quite simply: Me, me, me.
Now, Two-Face. There was the man with a messiah complex. But he's gone and we won't be seeing him for a while.
So, Riddler shouldn't do anything as you described it.
I don't think he even wants to kill people, he wants to tread a thin line between being feared, respected and admired as a brilliant outlaw.
The problems with this are his compulsion to leave riddles, his obsession with Batman, his grating personality and the fact that he is a coward.
It could be a very interesting film. The doomed persuit of glory by a man who is fundementally unworthy of greatness.

 

[Jolly C.]

Yeah he does care about money but robbing banks is to much like the dark knight...he should go after something bigger, government accounts maybe or even Wayne Enterprise.

 

[ronny]

Yeah he does care about money but robbing banks is to much like the dark knight...he should go after something bigger, government accounts maybe or even Wayne Enterprise.

I just like the idea of film 3 ending as The Dark Knight begun.
The film ends with a bank robbery and The Dark Knight began with one.
I like the sounds of that.

 

[Jolly C.]

that would be interesting but wouldnt you need to do something new rather than a bank robbery?

 

[ronny]

that would be interesting but wouldnt you need to do something new rather than a bank robbery?

Perhaps. But the bank robbery scenario is such a classic that I would love to see it again, only built up through the entire film.
Ever see The Day of The Jackal? Like that, throughout that movie there is a monumental build-up to the assassin's attempt on the life of Charles De Gaulle. So, by the end, you're on the edge of your seat even though you know that The Jackal will fail.
I imagine it to be like that, a film that so focuses on the battle of wits between The Riddler and Batman that the climatic robbery is the ultimate payoff for the viewer.

 

[Jolly C.]

Ehh im just not feeling it...no offense but the third movie should be better than its previous and having a bank robbery in it like the dark knight would make it pointless...now im not disagreeing with the fact that he should rob someone but just make it original and come up with a different type of robbery such as a corperate billionare like bruce wayne who is the richest man in gotham. The Riddler is a risk taker...if hes going to steal he might as well go for it all and rob the richest man in the city

 

[Jick]

I read it and I don't care much for your idea.
The idea that The Riddler would try and bring Gotham together through blowing stuff up is just silly.

you think that's silly, but doing a movie with a "villain" robbing banks and having lesser ambitions for not trying to compare with the Joker is not?
I'm glad the Nolan doesn't think like that.

 

[Jolly C.]

If Nolan is to make a third movie he will probably have his mind on making it better than the dark knight

 

[Jick]

If Nolan is to make a third movie he will probably have his mind on making it better than the dark knight

certainly.
like he said once there's no point in making a movie if he doesn't feel it'll be better.

 

[ronny]

you think that's silly, but doing a movie with a "villain" robbing banks and having lesser ambitions for not trying to compare with the Joker is not?
I'm glad the Nolan doesn't think like that.

It doesn't make sense to give The Riddler motivations that he simply doesn't have.
Nolan didn't do that with The Joker and he didn't do it with Ra's. So why buck the trend now?The Riddler doesn't care about bringing Gotham together. He just wants to look after himself and cement his reputation as the smartest criminal in Gotham.

 

[Jolly C.]

The riddler just cares about himself and how he can be the superior and by figuring out who batman is he can be. If he acts as a hero to gotham as in leading the pursuit to the capture of batman then everyone will think hes the hero and batman is portrayed to be the villain and in this process the riddler could also be a criminal too he could have a scheme to be nuetral between both sides of the law.

 

[Jick]

it happens all the time in the movies.
making the villain bigger ain't a sin. the problem is making him smaller.