The Dark Knight Rises Riddle Me This: The Riddler Characterization Thread

[bulletbillx]

yeah that last part of Forever would have made more sense and been more relevant if that had happened.

I know. I hope nolan can use the best parts of every incarnation if he uses the riddler. Including Batman forever.

Also his riddler could use Gordon and Alfred as bait in one of his tests, and we can all agree they're more important to Bruce than chase or forever robin lol.

 

[Ekricket]

I've always wondered what would be the Riddler's master plan? I mean Ra's was to make Gotham tear itself apart and Joker's was to make them destroy each other what would Riddler do?

Revenge. What better way to make Batman pay than to endanger his precious Gotham?

 

[COMPO]

revenge for what thought

 

[ronny]

I've always wondered what would be the Riddler's master plan? I mean Ra's was to make Gotham tear itself apart and Joker's was to make them destroy each other what would Riddler do?

Slowly wear down and humilate Batman with his riddle-based crimes and ambushes.
And then, when he's good and weak, take him in front of a large audience and television cameras and have him admit that he is not as smart as The Riddler.
It would be great to find out that his whole grand scheme was utterly childish and petty.

 

[Closerframe]

Since Nolan seems to have a fascination with his villains going through changes over the course of the film and eventually becoming their full comic-book incarnation by the end of the film I say have the Riddler start out as someone who wants to expose Batman, hints were placed in The Dark Knight of how crazy people will go once threatened into a corner. Once the Riddler realizes he won't be able to get his identity out he moves on and wants to prove he is smarter than Batman himself. He forces Batman to play a game that starts a new round with each day of the week. With each day the game gets tougher and sometimes the Riddler decides he doesn't want to play fair. The games could include bombs being strapped within the basements of some of the high rolling corporations and even schools. Batman will succeed in the beginning, but will eventually have to become The Dark Knight in the early evening to catch up with the Riddler. And by the end of the film the Riddler will have one last game which allows Batman to redeem himself (in a personal sense).

With this type of Riddler the stakes are placed higher not so much on a personal level like they were in The Dark Knight, but it will force Batman to put himself in harms way more than he has ever had to in any film.

 

[DarkJester]

Just had a thought, take it for what it is.

Edward Nashton/Nygma is a bright man, a genius even. To make a name for himself he moved to the big city (Gotham) and got a low rent place in the narrows. Shortly after, the fear gas attack occurs. Batman's demonic image plagues the disoriented and poisoned residents... including Edward. Fast forward: Edward is released from Arkham Asylum after having made a full recovery from the fear gas. OVer the course of his stay, however, he builds up a hatred for Batman, the man he blames for what happened that day. Now free, Edward is determined to use his greatest gift that was once almost lost completely (his mind) to exact revenge on Batman.

 

[COMPO]

what if at first the Riddler is stalking Gordon leaving him riddles for him, but Gordon ignores them so he starts to escalate things to get his attention kind of like Simon does with John McLane in Die Hard 3

 

[Mindreaper21]

I'd like for The Riddler to be a red headed, suave, well dressed psychotic (don't get it confused with crazed killer) criminal (not all green because it's too close to The Joker- Expensive green plaid jacket because it looks like a chess board so he doesn't have to have question marks all over, he only needs a single question mark on the back or on his tie so it doesn't look too cheesy, black slacks, green shoes, black gloves, black glasses with purple or blue tint to coordinate with the tie and green fedora because he should be more modern but not the short one because it looks weird) who became wealthy over his course of crimes with the intellect of Hannibal Lector and very egotistical oddball (not goofy, but just weird, nothing more than a mischieveous smirk and a coy chuckle from him). He should have women to drive him (query and echo, but I myself would use other names for them to fit his persona, names from intelligent historic people) around in a green Rolls Royce or something really fancy and a well dressed gang. The only reason for his capture should be that he puts too much thought into his traps (not like in SAW, there are other traps you know-and YES traps, because that has ALWAYS been his MO even in his first appearance) and he forgets a simple way for Batman to get out of his traps (or maybe he wants him to escape to keep the challenges going until he gets caught). He should not be confined to just question marks and "riddle me this" because he is to intelligent for something so simple. He should be into chess and Opera music just as other intellectual people are and be able to play an instrument, most likely piano because it takes great skill to play. He should be a very surreal person. He doesn't need to give all of his riddles through speech and letters, for instance he could lead Batman somewhere leaving a green light on and there could be a not so common painting by Raphael with something different done to it to lead him somewhere else. He could also leave a sort of puzzle piece to every crime scene forcing Batman to find these pieces in order to figure out the ultimate Riddle to his plans. It all depends on the type of various riddles he wants to use. Batman is supposed to be the world's greatest detective and The Riddler is supposed to be the one to pose the greatest challenge for that to the fullest. He should be fluent in many languages, especially french. One thing that is constant that I've seen about The Riddler is his ability to outwit Batman claiming to be at an location or having a victim, only to leave a mannequin/dummy in place (I'd love to see that on screen with a note that says "try again"). In the 1966 incarnation as well as in some comics, The Riddler seems to have a bondage fetish (1966 he has a collection of tourture devices). Tourturing victims is something he has done before, but more emphasis should be put into it to show just how violent he can be. He doesn't necessarily have to be a killer, just as long as it his kill makes for a good riddle. He shouldn't be weak, but just doesn't fight unless his opponent is weak so that he may easily have the upper hand and make him feel superior, feeding his massive ego. The Riddler's motives should be all about challenge, not "who is Batman?". He seemed to never care about Batmans's identity until "Batman Forever". Trying to decipher Batman's identity should be beneath him because he's smart enough to find that out if he really wanted to, so maybe he just wants that element of mystery. I'd like for The Riddler to refer to Batman mostly as The Dark Knight, because of the piece on the chess board (most likely his favorite piece which is the reason why he is so drawn to Batman). In the next movie, The Riddler's clues should ultimately lead to nothing. It should just be an all out battle of the brains seeing just how much of a challenge Batman can pose and for how long until The Riddler is caught. Finally he should be thrown in Arkham Asylum because his acts are truely undecipherable and dangerous. Sorry if some of this is confusing.

 

[nolan's roll'n]

Johnny Depp or Guy Pearce definitely for the Riddler in Batman 3. Did you guys notice that Anthony Micheal Hall who starred with Depp in Nightmare On Elm Street, played a guy named Mr. E in The Dark Knight. Maybe old news but perhaps he is the Riddler in Batman 3. Think about it, say Mr.E fast three times in a row. Sounds like mystery, or Mr.E could be short for Mr.E. Nygma. That's one theory but I'll leave it to you guys to decide, what you think.

 

[General_Obol]

Johnny Depp or Guy Pearce definitely for the Riddler in Batman 3. Did you guys notice that Anthony Micheal Hall who starred with Depp in Nightmare On Elm Street, played a guy named Mr. E in The Dark Knight. Maybe old news but perhaps he is the Riddler in Batman 3. Think about it, say Mr.E fast three times in a row. Sounds like mystery, or Mr.E could be short for Mr.E. Nygma. That's one theory but I'll leave it to you guys to decide, what you think.

Anthony Michael Hall wasn't in A Nightmare on Elm Street. The only possible nod to the Riddler that fans have seen in TDK is Joshua Harto's character Coleman Reese (Mr. Reese), the guy who threatened to reveal Batman's secret on the news.

To put the Riddler's characterization in simplest forms, think of L from the Death Note manga/anime/films. A more or less mysterious informant to the police, an absolute genius, and someone lacking basic social skills. With the police trying to capture Batman, it would seem plausible that the Riddler be some type of informant to the police, possibly helping out another police officer (maybe Bullock) so that the relationship between the Riddler and the other officer parallels the realtionship between Gordon and Batman. The only reference to the question mark insignia would be like how L contacted the police early in the franchise - he uses it more or less as a mask.

However, to make the character a full-blown villain, I think it might be interesting to see him as the Joker's self-declared successor.

 

[nolan's roll'n]

Anthony Michael Hall wasn't in A Nightmare on Elm Street. The only possible nod to the Riddler that fans have seen in TDK is Joshua Harto's character Coleman Reese (Mr. Reese), the guy who threatened to reveal Batman's secret on the news.

To put the Riddler's characterization in simplest forms, think of L from the Death Note manga/anime/films. A more or less mysterious informant to the police, an absolute genius, and someone lacking basic social skills. With the police trying to capture Batman, it would seem plausible that the Riddler be some type of informant to the police, possibly helping out another police officer (maybe Bullock) so that the relationship between the Riddler and the other officer parallels the realtionship between Gordon and Batman. The only reference to the question mark insignia would be like how L contacted the police early in the franchise - he uses it more or less as a mask.

However, to make the character a full-blown villain, I think it might be interesting to see him as the Joker's self-declared successor.

Or my bad, not Nightmare on Elm Street but he was in Edward Scissorhands with Johnny Depp.

 

[Mindreaper21]

Johnny Depp or Guy Pearce definitely for the Riddler in Batman 3. Did you guys notice that Anthony Micheal Hall who starred with Depp in Nightmare On Elm Street, played a guy named Mr. E in The Dark Knight. Maybe old news but perhaps he is the Riddler in Batman 3. Think about it, say Mr.E fast three times in a row. Sounds like mystery, or Mr.E could be short for Mr.E. Nygma. That's one theory but I'll leave it to you guys to decide, what you think.

There was no Mr. E, they were saying Mr. Reese. Thats the name that was chosen because of their ad with Reese's Peanutbutter Cups, it is mere coincidence that it sounds like "mysteries" or in your case "Mr. E". Nolan would not introduce The Riddler in such a way because The Riddler was going to be used instead of The Joker at first, so he must a certain level or respect for the character if he was going to be top villain and not just throw him into the movie. Mystery movies are Nolans element, and I think that its brilliant to be in your element for the final film. I'm sure Nolan has already had plenty of ideas for The Riddler, but more so now because he has alot of time to build his character for the next film. It's a pure fact that he will have a dark take on The Riddler just as all of the other villains, not just make him like a comicbook version, because it would go against his entire theme.

 

[NEXUS 6]

In my opinion, the Riddler can be given a successful silver screen treatment that doesn’t seem like a Joker rip off. Now that Batman is an outlaw suspected of murder, he gets blamed for another grisly slaying (I have no idea who the victim would be, probably not important). In reality, it is a man named Edward (not played by Johnny Depp or David Tennant) who has committed the crime. When Batman gets the “credit” (i.e. ousted by some nosy reporter who is partnered with Vicki Vale), he begins a downward spiral of jealousy and egotism. It is The Riddler’s goal to mentally destroy Batman, too “Win the game”, if you will. The murders escalate, and at each one he leaves a clue as to exactly who he will kill next, and when and how. If anyone has seen Minority Report, I want the same level of intensity as Cruise when he is attempting to figure out the future murders. Because he cannot solve the riddles in time, Bruce blames himself for the inability to save the victims, and therefore balances on the brink of insanity, with Alfred as his sole moral and psychological rock. (By the way, I want RIDDLES, not ciphers or something stupid like that.) Cue Hans Zimmer score, paranoia, a strong PG-13 rating (keep language to a minimum in order ramp up the violence –not necessarily gore, but I want to see more hand to hand combat from Bats), and the Nolan brothers at their best...

 

[COMPO]

should the riddler be killing? I mean he's more a conman than a serial killer.

 

[Mindreaper21]

should the riddler be killing? I mean he's more a conman than a serial killer.

Not like The Joker or Two-Face, but think he should kill someone only if it's necessary. His method of using traps to kill people would be amazing on screen.

 

[COMPO]

yeah, okay would be cool if he put people in death traps to test Batman.

 

[General_Obol]

Maybe a dumb question but should the Riddler have that domino mask or the question mark-topped cane? Both are incredibly cheesy but have become a staple in the Riddler's wardrobe.

 

[BestGirl]

Maybe a dumb question but should the Riddler have that domino mask or the question mark-topped cane? Both are incredibly cheesy but have become a staple in the Riddler's wardrobe.

I'd rather not see the question mark cane because it's hard foe me to think of a situation in which it wouldn't come off as silly.

Does the Riddler go out in public, or take pictures of or videotape himself? If he doesn't then I don't know why he'd need a mask. OTOH, he's not much of a supervillain without a distinctive look.

 

[General_Obol]

I'd rather not see the question mark cane because it's hard foe me to think of a situation in which it wouldn't come off as silly.

Does the Riddler go out in public, or take pictures of or videotape himself? If he doesn't then I don't know why he'd need a mask. OTOH, he's not much of a supervillain without a distinctive look.

Personally, I'd like to see the Riddler actually show his face only a few key times throughout the movie. It'd be best if he stays hidden for most of the film. He's not the most athletic, and he doesn't exactly have the physical staying power other villains have. Make sure he's consistently mentioned and show that he's the real player, controlling everything behind the scenes. That's all that needs to be done with him.

 

[Closerframe]

Personally, I'd like to see the Riddler actually show his face only a few key times throughout the movie. It'd be best if he stays hidden for most of the film. He's not the most athletic, and he doesn't exactly have the physical staying power other villains have. Make sure he's consistently mentioned and show that he's the real player, controlling everything behind the scenes. That's all that needs to be done with him.

So kinda like John Doe from Se7en?

 

[Jordacar]

Maybe a dumb question but should the Riddler have that domino mask or the question mark-topped cane? Both are incredibly cheesy but have become a staple in the Riddler's wardrobe.

Old Edward is sporting the purple shades these days

Personally, I love the new look. When I first saw it, it took me about 5 pages to realize he'd dropped the mask. It just looks right.

 

[Bruce Malone]

Based on that pic i think the domino mask would actually be the least cheesy thing on that outfit

 

[ronny]

Maybe a dumb question but should the Riddler have that domino mask or the question mark-topped cane? Both are incredibly cheesy but have become a staple in the Riddler's wardrobe.

Pretends to be blind. Wears thick black glasses and a white cane.

 

[Learnedcitizen]

I think that with the riddler, his threat is in his concept, rather than with the Joker, who's threat is very much the man himself. The Riddler is by denotation an enigma, his modus operanti isn't about acting as a man, physically, it's about acting as a force of intelligence, as an idea.

So would you like to see the Riddler portrayed in the film as an idea ('more than just a man!') i.e. his physical self isn't overtly evident. We don't really need to see the Riddler for 75% of the film. That way Batman truly is fighting a riddle, rather than a variation of the Joker.


Also, do you want traditional mind-puzzle riddles? Like, "Forward I am heavy, backward I am not, What am I?" [INSERT BETTER ONE HERE] Because I'm personally worried that it will reduce the threat of the crimes by introducing a 'childish' gimmick - remember, the riddles - if they are in the film - have to seem very clever, but able to be grasped by the child audience when a solution is found. I'm worried that it'll be a bit like, "Oh crap, a criminal has planted a bomb and if I don't work out what this enigmatic clue is, we're all done for ----- Freeze whilst they solve the clue ----- pphhhew, good job we were witty enough to work out that NOT backwards is TON!"

Because that equates to Harry Potter.

Yeah, I hope the Nolans avoid childish gimmicks, nor should they resort to the cliche "solve this puzzle or else I blow up and/or kill". This Riddler ought to be sinister to the extent that he can devise schemes that can taunt Batman and the Police, but leave us hanging by the edge of our seats. His riddles should also have an added dimension that both challenges Batman's detective skills and his ethical boundares. I am reminded of the Dexter episode, "Let's Give Our Boy A Hand", where the show's "Ice Truck Killer" leaves body parts of his latest victim at sites connected to the Dexter's childhood, which leads Dexter (the main protagonist) to confront his own dark personal history. However, Dexter, using his forensics and detective skills, uncovers that the Ice Truck Killer is keeping the victim alive! Here, the cruelty is that not only is the victim being dismembered alive, but that he is only being kept alive to taunt Dexter. This finding intensifies the search for the killer, who continues to leave behind body parts each day until the victim is founded, missing legs and arms, but still alive. A puzzle like this would leave Batman intellectually and emotionally exhausted, and highlight the ruthlessness of a villain, bent on driving his challenge to the brink.

 

[Mister H.]

^ What he said.