The Dark Knight Rises Riddle Me This: The Riddler Characterization Thread

[rfU]

bonjour folks, i'm recently laid off and bored out of my mind so I'm giving script writing a go. I'm writing a Dark Knight sequel and I'm looking for Riddler stories I can incorporate into my story. Just so you know what kind of story I penning, the opening scene is the 'tunnel of love' scene in the "Return of the Dark Knight" comic book where the Batman paralyzes the Joker. At this point, all of Gotham has seemingly lost patience with Batman, even Gordon. Another part of the story involves Talia recruiting Bane (who I've made a former failed student of Ra's Al Ghul). From that end, everything follows closely with the Nightfall Part 1 story line.

Now the Riddler, I've written as a TV host who spews anti-Batman rhetoric, even going as far as inviting the Scarecrow onto his show. However he's losing ratings fast, and so he sends threatening riddles and the sort to Gordon, posing as some kind of crazed lunatic driven crazy by the Batman's antics. But I need a bit more to add to this story. Any thoughts on Riddler stories/plots? I have Paul bettany in mind to play the role, and I'm writing him as a sort of closet psycho like Patrick Bateman and this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5Qka9zpWgY

http://www.sendspace.com/file/vylrce

here's what I got so far. It's 27 pages. Let me know what you think

 

[ALittlePush]

The Riddler played by Paul Bettany

Riddler is a newly promoted detective working under Commissioner Gordon. He has worked in the GCPD as a cop for eight years, and is a long time admirer of Gordon and his stand against corruption within the GCPD.
Riddler would respect Gordon and follow his orders without question. So when Riddler accidentally finds out that Gordon is working with Batman on the sly, he's going to feel betrayed. He's going to feel a little bit annoyed that the man who he's been inspired by and looked up to and admired for his honesty is lying to the whole city. So Riddler goes home, gets drunk, and begins to formulate a plan on how to expose his boss for the deceptive liar that he is.

He takes a pair of scissors and begins cutting letters from the newspaper to make a riddle. He then sends the riddle anonymously to Gordon as a warning that someone knows about him and Batman. When Gordon seemingly ignores the riddle, Riddler sends one to Gordon's wife, son and daughter which unsettles Gordon's wife. Gordon, unaware of Riddler's plan, then assigns Riddler to protect his family and find out who is sending the riddles. Gordon's son inadvertently reveals to Riddler exactly what happened at the end of TDK and how Batman is innocent. This revelation blows Riddler's whole world apart as Gordon's lies are bigger than he first thought. Riddler then decides to up his game and begins sending the riddles to various news outlets such as newspapers and news channels. When the riddles are aired on television, it draws Batman's attention. The Riddler becomes obsessed with trying to figure out why Batman would let himself be blamed for crimes he didn't commit.

or

Riddler works as a psychiatrist at Arkham asylum. It is his job to ask questions and find answers. Long story short, Riddler becomes obsessed with Batman. He wants to analyse Batman's mind, see what makes him tick.

 

[Rodrigo90]

The worst thing is this.

I can imagine a truly disturbing scene. Something so wrong and repulsive...itll make you scream.

Batman is sitting at the Batcomputer...waiting for the Riddlers sign.

"You have instant message".

Batman enters the chatroom and comes face to face with the Riddler. He reads the message sent by Riddler...

"Riddle me this. Riddle me that. What is yellow and goes quack quack?"

The Smart and cunning Batman thinks and replies back.

"Let me Google it".

Instant Message from Riddler for Batman.

"NO. YOULL SPOIL IT. PLAY FAIR".

Thats why Riddler shouldnt be a cyberterrorist nerd.

 

[Mr. Earle]

How about this riddle:

A guy is at his house, making out with his girlfriend, when suddenly the phone rings. He answers it and a voice says 'TOUCH MY DAUGHTER AGAIN AND I'LL KILL YOU', and then the line goes dead. The guy asks his girlfriend about it and she says 'My dad's been dead for 10 years..'"
BUT WHO WAS PHONE?

 

[Rodrigo90]

How about this riddle:

A guy is at his house, making out with his girlfriend, when suddenly the phone rings. He answers it and a voice says 'TOUCH MY DAUGHTER AGAIN AND I'LL KILL YOU', and then the line goes dead. The guy asks his girlfriend about it and she says 'My dad's been dead for 10 years..'"
BUT WHO WAS PHONE?

I dont know. But I do know its creepy

 

[Ryan]

The Riddler character sometimes rivals with the Joker for my number one Bat villain of all time. As much as I really would like to see him in a third Nolan film, and see what Nolan can do with him, I honestly can't figure out how they would present him. I can't see him as a ruthless killer, otherwise he might come off as Joker-lite. Even the tradittional Riddler costume might be hard to present. I've read that Nolan likes to be borrow ideas from his favourite movies. Supposedly the look from Blade Runner influenced the atmosphere of Batman Begins and Heat influenced the Bank heist from The Dark Knight. Perhaps they'll go for the bowler hat look of Alex from Clockwork Orange or something to that effect.

I just read this tagline from one of Nolans top ten films "A young man who escaped the clutches of a murderous hitch-hiker is subsequently stalked, framed for the hitcher's crimes, and has his life made into hell by the same man he escaped"
Could an idea like this be used for the Riddler? Someone who makes the Dark Knight's life a living hell by consistently setting up crimes and pinning them on his already tarnished name? This could provide a way for a final redemption for Batman in the third film.

 

[Jake Diamond]

I'm not really fussed how The Riddler is characterised. As long as it's not a poor man's Joker, and not the scenery-binging lycra-loving maniac from Batman Forever.

I have faith Nolan will come up with something good.

 

[Mister H.]

The Riddler character sometimes rivals with the Joker for my number one Bat villain of all time. As much as I really would like to see him in a third Nolan film, and see what Nolan can do with him, I honestly can't figure out how they would present him. I can't see him as a ruthless killer, otherwise he might come off as Joker-lite. Even the tradittional Riddler costume might be hard to present. I've read that Nolan likes to be borrow ideas from his favourite movies. Supposedly the look from Blade Runner influenced the atmosphere of Batman Begins and Heat influenced the Bank heist from The Dark Knight. Perhaps they'll go for the bowler hat look of Alex from Clockwork Orange or something to that effect.

I just read this tagline from one of Nolans top ten films "A young man who escaped the clutches of a murderous hitch-hiker is subsequently stalked, framed for the hitcher's crimes, and has his life made into hell by the same man he escaped"
Could an idea like this be used for the Riddler? Someone who makes the Dark Knight's life a living hell by consistently setting up crimes and pinning them on his already tarnished name? This could provide a way for a final redemption for Batman in the third film.[/QUOTE]

That right there is, without question, the best angle on a Nolan-ized Riddler I've seen on these boards.

 

[Rodrigo90]

I did that with my plot.

He frames Batman for an attack on GCPD and this results in the Task Force Team being deployed in order to catch Batman.

Then it slowly builds and builds till Bruce is framed for the murder of Coleman Reese.

So both Batman and Bruce are wanted fugitives. This is to make Riddlers challenge for Bruce a nightmare and only by catching him can Bruces name be cleared. But Batmans name being cleared lies in the hands of another.

 

[Two-Face]

He'll better not be too obsessed with Batman.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Its always about his obsession to prove that he is top dog.
In the story I did,its all about HIMSELF. He lays the challenges out for Batman in order to see if he has been paying attention and is smart and worthy to answer Riddlers own personal riddle. So all his chaos is all for him having closure on his life before he succumbs to his cancer.
THE CANCER. Riddler does have a terminal brain tumour and this is what ultimately drives him mad. He puts the Task Force Team through his traps to see if theyre "capable" to escape. Some people can beat cancer and Riddler wants to see if his victims can beat his intellectual traps and if theyre not capable of being smart,its over.
He says to Batman.
This cancer has me trapped...and the only result will be death. But some can beat cancer and some cant. Some might be able to beat my traps...but they havent.
Riddlers inspiration of his traps comes from his obsession of capable people beating cancer. The Team is used in his plan,but they are just his subjects

 

[BestGirl]

The Riddler character sometimes rivals with the Joker for my number one Bat villain of all time. As much as I really would like to see him in a third Nolan film, and see what Nolan can do with him, I honestly can't figure out how they would present him. I can't see him as a ruthless killer, otherwise he might come off as Joker-lite. Even the tradittional Riddler costume might be hard to present. I've read that Nolan likes to be borrow ideas from his favourite movies. Supposedly the look from Blade Runner influenced the atmosphere of Batman Begins and Heat influenced the Bank heist from The Dark Knight. Perhaps they'll go for the bowler hat look of Alex from Clockwork Orange or something to that effect.

I've had similar concerns about the Riddler's character and costume. In particular, I've been wondering how he can made threatening if he's only a thief (I think he's just a thief in the comics). I like your idea, though:

I just read this tagline from one of Nolans top ten films "A young man who escaped the clutches of a murderous hitch-hiker is subsequently stalked, framed for the hitcher's crimes, and has his life made into hell by the same man he escaped"
Could an idea like this be used for the Riddler? Someone who makes the Dark Knight's life a living hell by consistently setting up crimes and pinning them on his already tarnished name? This could provide a way for a final redemption for Batman in the third film.

An interesting and unique depiction of the Riddler and a way to redeem Batman. Excellent!

 

[Rodrigo90]

But Batman has nothing to redeem himself for. Everybody thinks like if Ted Bundy and Charles Manson started acting the hero,then suddenly everybody would forgive and forget about their crimes...NEVER GONNA HAPPEN.

The rightful person to get Batman out of the **** is the man who put him in there in the first place...Harvey Dent. It wouldnt make Batmans choice of keeping the secret seem pointless if Harvey was alive...it would be now about Batman upholding and protecting it long enough from Riddler,to have Harvey come in and clear the whole mess up which he caused. Its about redemption,but not from Batman. Batman is the true hero for making the sacrifice and then being rewarded by having it sorted out.

 

[Jolly C.]

So are you saying Harvey should come back to admit to what he did?

 

[Mr. Earle]

So are you saying Harvey should come back to admit to what he did?

Maybe if there is a Blackest Night plot, because he is dead.
[BLACKOUT]And yeah, i dont expect many of you to know what the Blackest Night is.
[/BLACKOUT]

 

[Ryan]

Mister H. and RachelDawes....thanks for the kind words! I thought that it sounded like an interesting premise. But again, we'll never know until a third film is made.

Rodrigo90. I guess what I'm suggesting is that the film takes place a few years after the cop murders. In those few years a master criminal (The Riddler) starts adding more and more crimes to Batman's resume. Ultimately, in the end, the Riddler would be caught and the crimes would be revealed to have been the work of the Riddler. True, the first so many cops that were killed by Dent wouldn't be fair to pin on The Riddler, but I think that the third movie would dwell on the recent crimes of The Riddler rather then what was committed in the last film. The main idea of a third film would be to make the "bad" Batman the "good" Batman in the public's mind. Just my take though.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Mister H. and RachelDawes....thanks for the kind words! I thought that it sounded like an interesting premise. But again, we'll never know until a third film is made.

Rodrigo90. I guess what I'm suggesting is that the film takes place a few years after the cop murders. In those few years a master criminal (The Riddler) starts adding more and more crimes to Batman's resume. Ultimately, in the end, the Riddler would be caught and the crimes would be revealed to have been the work of the Riddler. True, the first so many cops that were killed by Dent wouldn't be fair to pin on The Riddler, but I think that the third movie would dwell on the recent crimes of The Riddler rather then what was committed in the last film. The main idea of a third film would be to make the "bad" Batman the "good" Batman in the public's mind. Just my take though.

Nice idea.

Im peeved that my Riddler cancer idea was already used by Saw,lol. I took his tumour from Hush though.

 

[BestGirl]

But Batman has nothing to redeem himself for. Everybody thinks like if Ted Bundy and Charles Manson started acting the hero,then suddenly everybody would forgive and forget about their crimes...NEVER GONNA HAPPEN.

The rightful person to get Batman out of the **** is the man who put him in there in the first place...Harvey Dent. It wouldnt make Batmans choice of keeping the secret seem pointless if Harvey was alive...it would be now about Batman upholding and protecting it long enough from Riddler,to have Harvey come in and clear the whole mess up which he caused. Its about redemption,but not from Batman. Batman is the true hero for making the sacrifice and then being rewarded by having it sorted out.

Here's how Batman could be redeemed:

The Riddler starts framing Batman for various crimes, including murder. He dies in the end of the film while battling Batman and his racket is exposed. Everyone from the press to ordinary Gothamites then believes that the Riddler must have been ultimately responsible for Dent's murders. The GPD drops charges against Batman and then he's redeemed. Just an idea I put together in a few seconds.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Inspirations I used

The Batman cartoon-Riddler planting bombs across Gotham.
The Hangman from Dark Victory-Replaced the Hangman kiling an elite team with Riddler.
Elseworlds-Riddler for a brief period calls himself Enigma.
Main Comics-Riddler worked as a private investigator. My story he was a crooked cop, turned P.I.
Hush storyline-Riddler suffered from terminal cancer then healed himself with the Lazarus Pit. Riddler has a brain tumour and is obsessed at how some people can survive and beat cancer and others cant. His intellectual obsession combines with his survival obsession. So basically another question to him, if healthy people can survive cancer,then the smart task force team members can surely survive my traps?

Riddler is very messed up and in the end he tells Batman he wants him (Batman) to help him understand the riddle of himself. He became obsessed with riddles while he was in prison and obsessed with truth and mystery while working as a PI. This is his obsessive disorder from the comics.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Him framing Bruce and humiliating him,comes from his own experiencet when he was deliberately arrested on the day of his promotion to detective,by Harvey. Gordon was the one who planted evidence on him,in order to nail him for working with Falcone.

Riddler became obsessed with riddles in prison. In order to help keep his mind preoccupied,but psychoticly warped him.

His suit is another part of his challenge. If Batman has guessed what Riddler wants so far,its attention and Batman must pay attention to the suits symbolic meaning and message..This is the final key to unlocking Riddlers identity after his clues have been collected by both Batman and Gordon.
Riddlers downfall in the end? His lack of knowledge.of knowing that Harvey is alive.

1 part of his motive is all about "Is Batman smarter and a better detective than me?" But his real motive
"Can you unlock the Enigma of the Riddler?"
He puts Bats through tests to see if he is smart and worthy to help him answer that complex question that is haunting him.

 

[Jolly C.]

That sounds pretty good rodrigo...Do u think the riddler costume would change at all, Im asking because im trying to draw a concept of what he should look like in the nolan universe?

 

[Ryan]

Jolly C.--I'd love to se your art work when your done!

I honestly don't think that the Dent murders will be specifically addressed in Batman 3. I think the movie will begin with the public's and police's perception that Batman is a "bad guy", and continue from there. I just saw very little evidence in TDK that went back to clear up issues from Batman Begins. They never talked about Bruce's parents death and the impact it still has on him, they didn't mention the arrowhead that bruce and rachel shared, the ton of escaped arkham inmates on the loose, and exactly how the Blade runner atmosphere of Gotham in Bat begins turned into the clear blue skies of TDK

I've said it many times on here but I would love to see the Riddler be protrayed like John Doe from Seven. Despite little camera time his overwhelming presence is felt by everyone throughout the movie by the styles of deaths he is committing. Not saying the Riddler needs to be a killer, but just that his ingenious traps/riddles should be the real stars of the film and not necessarily the character's look or mannerisms (ala the Joker). When you do see Spacey/John Doe at the end of the film, he plays this totally reserved, arrogant guy that thinks he is smarter then everybody, and you wonder if he might just be! Only when Freeman (lets say Batman) confronts him with the illogical flaws in the Riddler's logic, does he start to crack a bit.

I loved The Long Halloween, Dark Victory and of course the movie Seven in that the string of murders all were tied together with a theme (Hangman,Seven Deadly sins). I'd love to see the Riddler have his crime spree based upon some sort of cool theme as well.

As for the Riddler himself. I mentioned earlier that he could have a look sort of like Alex in Clockwork Orange. I was also thinking why not give him some sort of physical impairment. Not cancer, but something more obvious that the viewer can see. I think that the physical impairment would stress that he is a man of mind and not matter, or, maybe that's why he is so damn smart....because of the limitations of his body. He'd like to be Batman, but he can't, so instead, he'll tear him down. Just and idea.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Thankyou,Jolly C.

I think it all depends on his gackground and motivation. The costume could reflect on his personal taste. Its known that Riddler is like Joker in many ways,what I did, was that this fact doesnt shy away. Riddler openly admits Joker inspired his attire,as they had already met. Riddler does also claim The Joker is a second rate hack,lol.

He wants to have attention drawn to him,by any means necessary. Reverse logic to his job as a PI,he doesnt want any attention drawn to him while undercover,but the Riddler suit is complete reverse of that. Its his favourite colours that help Batman and Gordon with the clues,Green and Black. I reckon he should wear a green suit with black pants. He has painted black question marks on the jacket. green question marks on his black shirt and black QM on his green tie. And green QM on his black pants. I dont know about a bowler hat. But I think a green Fedora would go nice. The hat that detectives wear. Bullocks hat for example.

 

[Brother Jack]

As for the Riddler himself. I mentioned earlier that he could have a look sort of like Alex in Clockwork Orange.

That would be too close to Ledger's Joker.

About the Se7en comparison, it works only in the way of the good guys trying to catch a genius and elusive criminal, not so much in the crimes themselves. Riddler isn't really a murderer anyway, let alone a torturing psychopath like John Doe.

 

[Jolly C.]

Ryan...I had the idea of him having a messed leg which can give rerason for why he carries a cane. I was thinking he could already have it messed up or in the film he could get shot or something and then he starts carrying a cane?

Rodrigo...Thanks for the ideas. I wanted to ask if it would be a cool addition to his attire if he wore some kind of mask with a question mark on to front of his mask to sorta indicate that nobody knows who the riddler is...i was thinking like a bank robber mask or somethin with a green question mark on the front?