The Dark Knight Rises Riddle Me This: The Riddler Characterization Thread

[Rodrigo90]

So all in all with that idea.

The questions marks are the symbol, of the mystery that he is too himself.

The riddles wriiten on his jacket are the symbol of his mystery to others,as to himself also. Others cant understand him and neither can he.

So the whole concept is about his obsession regarding himself.

And Batman is the only one who can figure out the mystery of the Riddler.

 

[Jolly C.]

but with more of a connecting pattern.

 

[namtaB]

I was watching some show on the Zodiac killer and they mentioned he wrote 4 ciphers that he sent to various news agencies. One of the ciphers was decoded by a married couple within 24 hours and it read something along the lines of "I enjoy killing."

The remaining 3 ciphers have been looked at by the FBI, CIA, Naval Intelligence, etc. and to this day remain unsolved. The Zodiac mentioned that his identity is in one of those 3 remaining ciphers.

I think this would be a great way to do the Riddler. Let him put out these ciphers that can't be solved but Batman and Fox come up with something from Applied Sciences that cracks the codes.

 

[GaiusBaltar]

This is like 2 years ago when Nolan announced that he'd do the Joker and people were saying that he shouldnt wear a purple suit because it wouldnt be realistic. Only this time its about the riddler.
Well if he dons a mask and creates an alter ego, why not be flamboyant about it? The riddler always wants to grab attention to himself so wearing a flashy suit suits him.

Goddamn realism bullcrap....

I guess that, for me, it all comes down to one thing:

I think the Joker looks awesome in purple and in many other gawdy colors and clothings, and I think the Riddler looks lame in green. I can connect the character of the Riddler to his attire, I cannot bring myself to do the same for the Riddler. Not one bit. I wouldn't mind too much to see a Riddler in green in the film, but I prefer to keep green to a minimum. I've always seen him as a little more constrained, wearing browns maybe, but overall trying to look elegant. And no matter how people try to rationalize it... green is not elegant. It's silly. I don't want a gawdy Riddler. I want an obssesed with his intellect Riddler who wants to be admired by people around him. And people who want to be admired don't take the risk of looking ridiculous by wearing green.

Do you want to remain faithful to the visual source? Let him have a "screen persona", an image of himself that delivers the Riddles and clues only in computer and tv screens. There you can have him dress anyway he likes: wearing green and a fedora, and having as many question marks over himself as you want. And then he fails to beat Batman, the obssesion makes him more demented than ever and he ends up strongly identifying himself with his screen persona, wearing that gawdy comic book outfit. That I would be happy about.

But the relationship between his symbolism, his personality and his attire (especially the color) is too weak to be presented as "just because" since the beginning. IMHO, of course.

 

[Jahu-Momus]

But the relationship between his symbolism, his personality and his attire (especially the color) is too weak to be presented as "just because" since the beginning. IMHO, of course.

I dont think its weak from the beginning, because the Joker walked around with paint on his face for a majority of the movie and when it got wiped away, he put more on. The Riddler could do the same, just instead of makeup, he always wears his Domino mask. I would even like it if he tried to be more like the Joker, but cant get to that level, leaving him obsessed with it

 

[Rodrigo90]

I dont think its weak from the beginning, because the Joker walked around with paint on his face for a majority of the movie and when it got wiped away, he put more on. The Riddler could do the same, just instead of makeup, he always wears his Domino mask. I would even like it if he tried to be more like the Joker, but cant get to that level, leaving him obsessed with it

Riddler would feel superior to the Joker,rather than inferior.

 

[GaiusBaltar]

Riddler would feel superior to the Joker, rather than inferior.

Oh, I cannot state how right I think you are, Rodrigo. IF the Riddler ends up being the main villain after all, he's gonna face extremely unfair expectations due to comparisons with TDK's Joker. Their methods are fairly similar and the Joker just raised the bar to high. It would be even worse to have the Riddler be a Joker follower. Horrendous idea, actually.

 

[BlueLightning]

Maybe Batman could taunt the Riddler telling him that it was harder to battle the Joker, or something among those lines.

 

[GaiusBaltar]

oohhhh, below the belt, I like that. Batman should taunt the little bastard as much as he can.

 

[jmc]

I guess that, for me, it all comes down to one thing:

I think the Joker looks awesome in purple and in many other gawdy colors and clothings, and I think the Riddler looks lame in green. I can connect the character of the Riddler to his attire, I cannot bring myself to do the same for the Riddler. Not one bit. I wouldn't mind too much to see a Riddler in green in the film, but I prefer to keep green to a minimum. I've always seen him as a little more constrained, wearing browns maybe, but overall trying to look elegant. And no matter how people try to rationalize it... green is not elegant. It's silly. I don't want a gawdy Riddler. I want an obssesed with his intellect Riddler who wants to be admired by people around him. And people who want to be admired don't take the risk of looking ridiculous by wearing green.

Do you want to remain faithful to the visual source? Let him have a ''screen persona'', an image of himself that delivers the Riddles and clues only in computer and tv screens. There you can have him dress anyway he likes: wearing green and a fedora, and having as many question marks over himself as you want. And then he fails to beat Batman, the obssesion makes him more demented than ever and he ends up strongly identifying himself with his screen persona, wearing that gawdy comic book outfit. That I would be happy about.

But the relationship between his symbolism, his personality and his attire (especially the color) is too weak to be presented as ''just because'' since the beginning. IMHO, of course.

Looking back at my days of colour theory history at university, green is a hue that can mean anything from life to death, from love to envy, from despair to prosperity, in fact it can mean completely opposite and rather contrasting things from culture to culture. If you really wanted justification you could argue that green is itself a question, one without an answer and therefore the perfect representation for the Riddler, even if I do agree it's an ordinary colour.

 

[CaptainClown]

"they say geniuses pick green"

 

[GaiusBaltar]

But mystery and ambiguity are two very different things. All his riddles have definite answers and also his clues. He's not a man about ambiguity, like Two-Face could be. He's a man that searches for competition and intellectual superiority. What does green has anything to do with it?

I'm not trying to start another "why green?" debate because it's like beating a dead horse around here. I'm just saying that's one bit of the charactar that has always annoyed me. The Joker? Sure, he can dress in all the fashions and colors he likes because he doesn't care what other people think of him. In fact, he wants other people to be totally baffled about him. The Riddler is another kind of animal. People say he wears green because he's vain and wants to get attention from others, but to "desire attention" it's a little different from "desiring respect". We cannot deprive green of context. In the nolanverse's Gotham, it would make him look ridiculous. I'm just hoping he does it when he's too disconnected from reality to notice, and I'd like to savor some "mildly sane" Nygma before that. Campiness is still a real danger.

 

[GaiusBaltar]

"they say geniuses pick green"

cringeworthy.

 

[CaptainClown]

didn't like meet the parents?

 

[jmc]

But mystery and ambiguity are two very different things. All his riddles have definite answers and also his clues. He's not a man about ambiguity, like Two-Face could be. He's a man that searches for competition and intellectual superiority. What does green has anything to do with it?

I'm not trying to start another ''why green?'' debate because it's like beating a dead horse around here. I'm just saying that's one bit of the charactar that has always annoyed me. The Joker? Sure, he can dress in all the fashions and colors he likes because he doesn't care what other people think of him. In fact, he wants other people to be totally baffled about him. The Riddler is another kind of animal. People say he wears green because he's vain and wants to get attention from others, but to ''desire attention'' it's a little different from ''desiring respect''. We cannot deprive green of context. In the nolanverse's Gotham, it would make him look ridiculous. I'm just hoping he does it when he's too disconnected from reality to notice, and I'd like to savor some ''mildly sane'' Nygma before that. Campiness is still a real danger.

Why does he wear green? It's a riddle in and off itself. Perhaps the only one who knows that answer is him. Do we even need an answer for it? It's like why Catwoman wears a Cat mask argument really. Look, you can go on about the who's, the what's, the when's, the why's, but what it ultimately comes down to is the Riddler wears green, always has and everyone knows it, from the comics, to Frank Gorshim, to Jim Carey, to the various animated series', the character is synonyms with that colour scheme, end of story. Not gonna argue that green is itself a crappy colour, I'll be the first to admit it, but just because it's Nolan's universe doesn't mean every single detail requires justification, even though it's not a great colour, it's not like you can't make anything half decent that doesn't look out of place. It will only be campy if it's executed that way, and with Nolan at the helm, it won't be.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Green isnt a crap colour...the colour of my eyes,lol.

Green is his favourite colour,personal reasons why he wears his costume. All criminals in Batmans world address their psychosis by their actions and appearance. As Batman once said and I quote

"In times of madness,nothing makes sense. No reason or explanation,just men doing what they do because they can,becoming what they desire to be".

 

[HUMANIMAL]

just for the colour question im thinkiing that green was a choice because of his orange hair, joker in white suit also looks good but needs some contrast in it thats why they choose purple...riddler could have more brown hair so they have to tone the suit down as well...

 

[Rodrigo90]

Olive Green is a more realistic choice of colour.

 

[HUMANIMAL]

agreed...

 

[Rodrigo90]

Olive Green is 60% Green and 40% Brown. That colour isnt too over the top.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

I think Riddler would wear a somewhat flamboyant suit for a very simple reason. HE WANTS PEOPLE TO NOTICE HIM. That is what he is. He wants the attention.

Now I'm not saying a lime green suit. But to say he shouldn't wear any green at all because it's silly and gawdy is similar to the people saying Joker shouldn't wear purple because it's "unrealistic". ie. it's a load of old cobblers.

 

[CaptainClown]

I always envisioned The Riddler to be like the Merovingian in the Matrix. A pompous ass, who loves having power over people. I see him being the type of guy you would see owning a yacht in the Mediterranean sea, and constantly belittling the people around him. I could see him with a silk green tie, neatly trimmed hair that is slicked to the side. A constant arrogant smirk while drinking a martini. He would probably start by playing this "game" with Batman. Cat and mouse, blah blah until Batman starts to win. Not driving him crazy but pissing him off. When he becomes angry his eccentric behavior lessens and he is now more forward and direct with his goals, taking everything more serious.

Killing people? Probably, I do see him also being a type of brain-for-hire type of guy who came to Gotham with an intention of rooting out the problem, which is Batman. However, with what Joker did in TDK, it would be very hard to orchestrate similar scenarios. I would probably have him hired by whats left of the mob. Not being a "freak" but another factor to add to the equation. I also really don't see him being good or evil. Oh wel

 

[Rodrigo90]

John Doe,Zodiac Killer,Jigsaw and Albert Einstein all rolled into 1.

 

[Brother Jack]

John Doe,Zodiac Killer,Jigsaw and Albert Einstein all rolled into 1.

Riddler is not a serial killer.

 

[Nightwing 52]

I think Riddler would wear a somewhat flamboyant suit for a very simple reason. HE WANTS PEOPLE TO NOTICE HIM. That is what he is. He wants the attention.

This.