The Dark Knight Rises Riddle Me This: The Riddler Characterization Thread

[protoctista]

I don't do chick flicks

It's the burden of girlfriends that men must watch such things. Luckily it's often a precurssor to greater things, and whilst they get all soppy, we can admire the acting talent and cinematography...

 

[Keyser Soze]

Maybe I'm only suggesting him because I think he's the best living actor, but how about Ralph Fiennes?

He's been proven to have a near all-encompassing range, but his stand out roles have shown that he has particular finesse in playing; needy weak and insecure characters, viscious arrogant bastards, intellectual types, obsessive types as well as sick mother-****ers (Schindler's List)

Ralph Fiennes is indeed great, but the problem is he's already playing another WB franchise villain.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Who?

 

[I Am The Knight]

Lord Voldemort

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Oh yea!! Silly me. For some reason I thought he meant another DC villain.

 

[protoctista]

Studio association is hardly character stigma, and he is visually distorted as Voldemort anyway. The riddler is an entirely different character; i.e. not a pantomime villain. So I don't think it rules him out at all.

 

[kid dropper]

so what about fiennes being in potter, oldman plays sirius black in the same franchise, another role as ally to the hero. doesnt make a bit of difference does it?

 

[I Am The Knight]

True. Or Bale as Beast Batman and John Connor.

 

[The Guard]

There are like 900 people who could play The Riddler and not break a sweat. Let's not turn this into a casting thread.

 

[Cancer4TheCure]

There are like 900 people who could play The Riddler and not break a sweat. Let's not turn this into a casting thread.

Agreed. The Riddler is a pretty open ended character...you only have to nail a couple aspects, and otherwise it's completely up to interpretation. I'm more interested on how everyone thinks The Riddler will be portrayed in this series.

 

[GregComicFan]

With who The Dark Knight ends, I still think the most obvious approach is for the Riddler to be brought in as an investigator the police use to catch Batman. Then he goes nutty and becomes obsessed with catching Batman. The problem with this theory though is it means The Riddler WILL NOT pose a threat to the city... and that another villain will be needed to do that.

 

[Victarion]

Then he goes nutty and becomes obsessed with catching Batman. The problem with this theory though is it means The Riddler WILL NOT pose a threat to the city... and that another villain will be needed to do that.

Not necessarily. Our very own Melkay proposed that the Riddler's traps would grow in complexity until they would threaten not just Batman but the citizens of Gotham as well.

Melkay, if you haven't considered this, what if prior to Batman besting him, Nygma/Nashton was a proud man who had some kind of social disconection. He's intelligent, but has a hard time mingling with his colleagues. He's awkward in social situations. After Batman would evade a set up Nygma/Nashton concocted to capture him, Nygma/Nashton's colleagues would make a few lighthearted jokes about being beaten by the bat. Nygma/Nashton would take this the wrong way and end up creating his Riddler persona, and this would lead into Melkay's idea.

Hope you don't mind I made the addition there. Give me your thoughts.

 

[Melkay]

Not necessarily. Our very own Melkay proposed that the Riddler's traps would grow in complexity until they would threaten not just Batman but the citizens of Gotham as well.

Our very own Melkay... mmm, that makes me feel very warm inside .

And yes, that was the idea, his threats go from threatening Batman to threatening a few cops and civilians. Then, the whole city.

Melkay, if you haven't considered this, what if prior to Batman besting him, Nygma/Nashton was a proud man who had some kind of social disconection. He's intelligent, but has a hard time mingling with his colleagues. He's awkward in social situations. After Batman would evade a set up Nygma/Nashton concocted to capture him, Nygma/Nashton's colleagues would make a few lighthearted jokes about being beaten by the bat. Nygma/Nashton would take this the wrong way and end up creating his Riddler persona, and this would lead into Melkay's idea.

Hope you don't mind I made the addition there. Give me your thoughts.

I like it, I'd just wouldn't want the 'social awkwardness' to be too overt and obvious. Subtle and simple is good, nothing like Russel Crowe in A Beautiful Mind.
I also think he can take it personal without the need of colleagues mocking him. Why? Because being ridiculed by one's peers is conflict for high-school movies, not for becoming an agressive psychopath. Every change he has to make must come from himself. He's Edward Nashton/Nygma... he's over-confident and arrogant even before turning into the Riddler, unlike Arnold Wesker who doesn't have a clue about social skills and needs Scarface to feel good about himself.

Those are minor quips anyway. I think the idea is good.

 

[ThePoisonPuppet]

Though showing him as socially awkward and mocked by his colleagues as Mr. Wooden Alligator suggested could create sympathy for him. I guess it depends on how we want him to be seen by the audience. Do we want him to be a tragic villain, that annoying villain we all love to hate, the really cool villain that part of us wants to be like, or something entirely different.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

I could see him as an highly intelligent, arrogant yet geeky Fed, mocked by his peers. This could drive him to prove that he is the best, that he is is the most intelligent. That's what Riddler is all about no? It doesn't have to paint him in a sympathetic light though, he could be like an unlikeable little weasal.

 

[kid dropper]

Kind of like Dutch Wagonbach from "The Shield"

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Yea similer to him. He could be so by the book and fussy in his work everyone else on his team or who he works with finds him an annoyance. Maybe all this building up adds to his obsessive nature with leads to him losing it as the investigation of Batman progresses.

I was just thinking it would be interesting to have a lot of the films POV from Riddler. Maybe have him sorta narrate in his head, talking to himself all the time or asking questions in his head and as the film goes on the more erratic his thoughts become. I think something like that could be pretty unique and interesting.

 

[Ratcrawler]

I'd rather have Batman beat the Riddler via his combat skills and resourcefulness rather than outright outsmarting him. A good villain's supposed to excel the hero in at least one asPect. Rahs Al Ghul had an army. Joker had no limits. Riddler's top asset is his brain. Having Batman solve all his riddles and outsmart him is like having him wrestle Bane into defeat.

Here's my take on Riddler; Social Darwinist.

Schools are failing our kids. Pop Culture trivia is fast becoming the American people's top area of expertise. And the richest, most influencial figures in the world get where they are via nepotism and stepping on the real geniuses. Ever hear of Nikola Tesla? One of the most brilliant inventors ever, creating the alternating currents we use in our electrical devices today but he died penniless and alone. Why? Because Thomas Edison, cutthroat businessman that he was, screwed over Tesla every opportunity he got, taking credit for his work and soiling his reputation.

Riddler's a man who's convinced that the only way to save mankind is through survival of the fittest. And by fittest, he means smartest.

 

[Melkay]

^ Social darwinist? Cool way to call it.

Let's give Bats some brains to go too. Maybe he can outsmart and avoid some early Riddler traps, until the Riddler considers it personal and starts to exceed himself.

 

[Ekricket]

^ Social darwinist? Cool way to call it.

Let's give Bats some brains to go too. Maybe he can outsmart and avoid some early Riddler traps, until the Riddler considers it personal and starts to exceed himself.

Or he starts something that is bigger than himself, something that he can't control anymore but controls him instead. Like he is a nano-scientist, and he enhances himself with nano-technology, that turns him into a super computer that calculates the only way to save humankind is to destroy cesspools like Gotham. But the supercomputer cannot take into account human emotion and the aptitude we have for changing our behavior and the innate goodness in our hearts (I know, I sound like a democrat).

But then utlimately it falls victim to the common cold. Nah, it would have to get locked into an unresolvable logic loop (via Batman's superior intellect), which renders Riddler catatonic, or a gibbering idiot, that has to be locked up in Arkham.

But if the loop can ever be broken, then watch out, cause the Riddlers back for another sequel.

 

[Ronny Shade]

I'd rather have Batman beat the Riddler via his combat skills and resourcefulness rather than outright outsmarting him. A good villain's supposed to excel the hero in at least one asPect. Rahs Al Ghul had an army. Joker had no limits. Riddler's top asset is his brain. Having Batman solve all his riddles and outsmart him is like having him wrestle Bane into defeat.

Here's my take on Riddler; Social Darwinist.

Schools are failing our kids. Pop Culture trivia is fast becoming the American people's top area of expertise. And the richest, most influencial figures in the world get where they are via nepotism and stepping on the real geniuses. Ever hear of Nikola Tesla? One of the most brilliant inventors ever, creating the alternating currents we use in our electrical devices today but he died penniless and alone. Why? Because Thomas Edison, cutthroat businessman that he was, screwed over Tesla every opportunity he got, taking credit for his work and soiling his reputation.

Riddler's a man who's convinced that the only way to save mankind is through survival of the fittest. And by fittest, he means smartest.

Spectacular.

This is literally the first interpretation that I've heard that really makes me excited to see the Riddler adapted into the Nolan-verse.

Thank you.

 

[protoctista]

Holy God Ekricket has created a terrible idea.



And Social Darwinist sounds a bit aking to a less leafy Poison Ivy IMO. Which is bad.

 

[I Am The Knight]

So how does this Social Darwinist thing works, in terms of gimmick?

 

[Ronny Shade]

It would be why he leaves riddles. It's genius.

I never really liked the "obsession with riddles" "compulsion" "need to get caught" "seeking attention" riddler as a big bad.

This gets rid of that.

 

[CaptainClown]

It is definitly a different take on Riddler that doesn't deviate far from the original character. I do like it overall. However his motives do feel to be that of Posion Ivy/ Rahs Al Ghul.

As for his compulsion, I have never seen Riddler leaving riddles as a force of habit but merely a taunt. It is like someone who walks slowly upright in a field of fire. It is a taunt that questions your ability. By leaving clues he is taunting Gotham city and basically calling them all idiots. however with batman able to crack his codes it would prove to be his downfall. His ego is what will do him in when he learns the hard way that there is always a bigger fish.

As for him discovering Batman's identity, I would think if Riddler found out he would keep it to himself and make it a riddle only because he would feel it is an ultimate prize that only the brightest deserve to find out.