The Dark Knight Rises Riddle Me This: The Riddler Characterization Thread

[Rodrigo90]

Riddler first appeared to challenge Batman,with no other explanation than to prove he was the smartest.

In movie wise,Joker did the same and we dont want to see that again.

In the comics,Edward was already a criminal...yes he worked at the carnival and conned people with his tricks,but he still enjoyed it.

Working at the carnival in the Nolan movies wont work.

Now. In order to get a good explanation of Riddlers appearance in Gotham,other than he "just appears out nowhere" should be based on Batmans situation. Also to get a little development into his character.

The Fed idea would cause the movie to be all about Edward,his obsession,his transformation into The Riddler,the villains shouldnt overshadow the entire movie,thats what BB and TDK were good at. They were there and it was acceptable...but everybody wants to see something a little different...the development of the villain. But it shouldnt span across the movie.

In my eyes,Riddler shouldnt be "there"...it should be Edward and he is already a criminal,on the tracks to becoming Riddler.

Batman villains cant relate with Batman with the whole "Getting lost inside the monster". But they can all relate with Ducards speech, "If you make yourself more than just a man,if you devote yourself to an ideal...you become something else entirely". THAT is the basis of a true Bat villain.

Sort of a pre Riddler to start with,then becoming what he truly is now.

 

[Mindreaper21]

Well said. Besides, can anyone recall the Feds being involved in Batman? You have to be smart about this one. If the Feds didn't show up for The Joker, they won't show up at all. Joker killed the Commishioner, a Judge, attemted to kill the Mayor, and threatened to kill the Disrict Attourney. Not to mention the stunt Scarecrow and Ras pulled. Why in the world would the Feds show up now? Thats just being rediculous...No FBI, secret agents, etc. The Riddler is a criminal, simple.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Exactly. The FBI always take a back seat to everything,they didnt show up for the likes of Joker,why should they should up to catch Batman? It wouldn't make sense.

The only way I would want the Feds to acknowledged,is if Edward is already on the most wanted list. That way,he is already on the verge of becoming Riddler and doesnt have long, drawn out origin movie,that would happen if he were a Fed.

Edward should be a criminal,exploiting and wanting the attention Batman is getting. He realises he needs to up his game and become something more complex in order to challenge and defeat Batman.

There really doesnt have to be a perfect explanation of him doing things,its just obsession that he cant control. He wants to see if anybody can out match him and his intelligence.

 

[COMPO]

I'd love if the Riddler conned his way into the investigation making people believe he's a Cop or Private Investigator to get information on Batman and the Two Face case.

 

[rfU]

Batman
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what's the solution to this one?

However, the more frustrated Nashton becomes, the more he gets into the Riddler role. He becomes so obsessed with catching Batman that the Riddler isn’t just a trap for Batman anymore but an actual threat to Gotham.

I like this. Starts out trying to get to Batman but then a gradual transformation and he gets sucked into the role.

Eventually he deducted that Batman was Bruce Wayne

How and at what point in the movie?

 

[Mindreaper21]

Exactly. The FBI always take a back seat to everything,they didnt show up for the likes of Joker,why should they should up to catch Batman? It wouldn't make sense.

The only way I would want the Feds to acknowledged,is if Edward is already on the most wanted list. That way,he is already on the verge of becoming Riddler and doesnt have long, drawn out origin movie,that would happen if he were a Fed.

Edward should be a criminal,exploiting and wanting the attention Batman is getting. He realises he needs to up his game and become something more complex in order to challenge and defeat Batman.

There really doesnt have to be a perfect explanation of him doing things,its just obsession that he cant control. He wants to see if anybody can out match him and his intelligence.

This is nice, but I wouldn't want him on the Most Wanted list. In the virals he wrote a letter to Gotham Times, and if he were a wanted man, he would already be caught. I just want him to be a criminal mastermind. Since The Riddler is so intelligent it puts me in the mind of Ted Bundy, who acted as his own lawyer and used his charm and wits to sway the jury. Like Keyser Soze from "The Usual Suspects" who sat in a room and made up a story using names and other things around the room to lie his way into making the cops believe he was innocent. Someone who can commit a crime that is completely obvious but still, is unable to get caught because of certain circumstances. The only downfall being his ego, making his work sloppy towards his goal just enough to get him caugt for sure. "The Riddler's Reform" is a brilliant concept of what I'd like to see. A wealthy criminal, center of attention, that "I'm better than you" attitude, sarcastic, making Batman look rediculous, highly complex riddles, death traps etc. The Riddler doesn't need to be anything other than that which he is. Alot of people can't really grasp the concept of The Riddler, but just seeing him serious alone on the big screen, would amplify his disturbed nature.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Edward should already be an acknowledged and established criminal. Going from City to City to challenge and defeat the Authorities,and he has never been caught.

His next target is Gotham City. Of course Batman is the only one who catches him and he is sent to Arkham Asylum. Edward obsesses over his defeat by Batman and formulates a plan to break out,which he does. But spending time in Arkham has warped his mind and he decides to become something more like the other criminals in there and becomes The Riddler,vowing to get his revenge on Batman (and to prove Batman isnt as smart as he is) by creating the perfect challenges and the ultimate death trap. The trap is inspired by Gothams mission to stop Batman and Riddler wants to see him outwitted and be killed in it basically.

So he arrives in Gotham to challenge Commissioner Gordon first and then goes after Batman. He obsesses about Batman that much,he deducts who he is.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Cause IMO. The movie shouldnt be based around everybody elses efforts at catching Batman. It should be created from Batman dealing with a new threat in his new situation of things. The struggles of dealing with a psychotic villain obsessed with pwning his ass at any cost,while being hunted by the Authorities at the same time,intent on his capture.

If Riddler was a Fed,the focus and journey will be based entirely on him...efforts of trying to catch Batman and falling into madness. Batman might as well be the secondary character.

So if the movie is focused on the police and the FBI trying to catch Batman,then that plot will be focused more so on them and their efforts,which includes the long origin of Agent Nashton becoming The Riddler,which shouldnt happen.

 

[ALittlePush]

what's the solution to this one?

The Docks
Tonight

Each number represents the letter in the alphabet.

 

[Jolly C.]

alot mind changing here.

 

[bgates87]

Just throwing this out here, this is another idea I had for the Riddler. I'm still trying to work out some details but I think it would work and fit with Nolan's direction:

He's a 42-year-old ex-cop who was diagnosed with Parkinson's Disease at age 40. He quit the police force to become a private detective after his superiors decide that the increasingly severe symptoms of his disease make him unfit to be an active-duty cop. He's bitter and determined to prove that he still has what it takes despite his disease, and when the Batman arrives in Gotham City he sees it as an opportunity to prove that he still has what it takes by identifying and capturing the Batman.

This little origin story allows for several traits that most interpretations of The Riddler have in common: His motivation for being obsessed with finding out who the Batman is comes from genuine emotions like revenge and pride that most people can relate to. He becomes very good at puzzles, riddles and word games because he uses them to occupy his time now that his disease has made physical activity difficult. His standard outfit while operating as a private detective includes his favorite olive green tweed jacket and a green fedora. His disease also forces him to use a cane. This also adheres to Nolan's theme of Batman creating the villains he faces, since his presence inspires the detective to become "The Riddler."

Also, here are some little plot ideas I had. I think these could be good regardless of your interpretation of the character.

- The detective becomes known as "The Riddler" when he uses that name as a pen name while sending clues to the Gotham Times.

- The Riddler hires a gang led by Roman Sionis to carry out crimes in broad daylight, hoping to lure the Batman out during daytime so he can be captured.

- Unable to act as the Batman during the day, Bruce Wayne dons the guise of private detective "Matches Malone" several times while he investigates the series of crimes being committed by Sionis' gang.

- The Riddler creates his own Bat Signal in another attempt to trap the Batman.

 

[Jolly C.]

bgates87 thats a pretty cool idea...i would change it to where black mask is after bruce wayne for taking over his company and then there will be black mask after bruce wayne and riddler after batman which could be a pretty good plot.

 

[Rodrigo90]

It does make sense to have Riddler come in and use his traps to capture Batman,but why didnt the guy do it with the Joker?

I just think his obsession should be to battle the police first,no death traps,just challenges. He becomes The Riddler after Batman beats him,and invents his own trap (Only one for the final confrontation) to outwit and kill Batman. But still makes random attempts on Batmans life during his challenges,that will result in his death and others.

But Riddler really wants and is certain Batman will succumb to his final death trap.

It makes sense to his psychology if he already has an obsession to challenge people before Batman. Cause he seems pretty crap if hes out to catch Batman,but cant time after time,attempt after attempt. It would be like Road Runner and WileE. Coyote

 

[bgates87]

Double Post.

 

[bgates87]

bgates87 thats a pretty cool idea...i would change it to where black mask is after bruce wayne for taking over his company and then there will be black mask after bruce wayne and riddler after batman which could be a pretty good plot.

Actually I did have another story about the origins of the Black Mask that is along those lines:

When Wayne Enterprises and the Janus Cosmetics Board of Directors agree to the terms of a friendly buyout, Janus Cosmetics CEO Roman Sionis fears he will lose his job if the transaction takes place. He is then approached by William Earle, disgruntled former CEO of Wayne Enterprises, and the two of them plan a little corporate espionage. They hope that the financial damage will force Wayne Enterprises to back out of the deal.

Things go wrong when Lucius Fox happens to be staying after hours on the night that Sionis and a gang of mobsters plan to break in to the headquarters of Wayne Enterprises (wearing masks of course). When they confront Fox, Sionis panics and decides to kidnap him and hold him for ransom. Fox activates a tracking device inside of his cell phone as he's being taken. The device signals Batman and allows him to track Fox's location. Batman follows them to a warehouse on the Gotham Docks, where a meeting is taking place between Earle and Sionis. When Earle realizes how the plan has escalated he decides he wants no part of a kidnapping so he leaves. Batman then crashes the party, beating up several thugs and freeing Lucius. However, Batman is forced to flee when the police begin to arrive on scene which allows Sionis time to escape.

When filing the police report the only thing Fox can tell them about his captor was that he was wearing a black mask, thus he is dubbed "The Black Mask" by local media. Sionis- now a criminal with nothing to lose- embraces his new identity and uses his money and mob connections to quickly rise to the top of the Gotham's criminal underworld.

 

[thedrizzle59]

The League of Shadows has been taken over by ROMAN SIONIS. Roman was a previous apprentice to RAS AL GHUL. After Roman killed his parents by burning down his mansion in Gotham, Ras recruited Roman before ever recruiting BRUCE WAYNE to the league of shadows, giving Roman a chance at revenge against the city that has brought him nothing but pain. Ras began training Roman in the Eastern Mountains. When he was told to kill a murderer for his initiation in the League, He killed the man without any hesitation. He was exiled by Ras after Roman began killing innocent people for no reason other than impulse. Ras believed Roman to be nothing more than a true sociopath unworthy of leading the League of Shadows to Gotham. This led Ras to find Bruce Wayne instead. Roman returned to Gotham as a failed businessman looking for another way to gain power in Gotham. Roman was contacted by an unknown man who offered him a chance at ruling Gotham's criminal underworld. Roman was able to gain control of what was left of the league of shadows with help from the unknown assailant. Roman retitled the League of shadows to The False Face Society, and took on the alias of BLACK MASK. Roman began using the trained assassins to force other criminals in Gotham to join his society or die. Before long Roman had complete control over Gotham's Underground, using every resource to corrupt/infiltrate Gotham's legal infrastructure.

 

[thedrizzle59]

EDWARD NASHTON is a very mysterious man. Incredibly brilliant and manipulative. Has many resources at his side and a dignified strategist. Edward is able to manipulate the league of shadows and ROMAN SIONIS who's desperate for power. Edward uses Roman as a puppet to do his dirty work. Edward knows the truth about HARVEY DENT. He knows that BATMAN and GORDON covered up the truth by saying batman killed those people. Nashton doesn't like the fact that Batman is trying to save Gotham through false pretenses, and that the truth shall set you free. Edward has Roman kidnap COLMAN REESE and extract the identity of Batman. Once Edward learns that BRUCE WAYNE is batman he begins Testing Gordon and Batman (with the help of Roman), trying to get them to reveal the truth to the public about Dent themselves. Although being at critical locations throughout the story in plain sight of Bruce and Gordon, Batman is completely unaware of Edward until the very end of the story, when Roman reveals he was working for someone else.

 

[Texas Zombie]

Black mask seems like a perfect fit in ther series, as all of the mob is either dead or in prison, so someone could just waltz In and takeover everything, that person would have to be feared by the city, bu more feared by the underworld.

As far as riddler goes, I'm not sure why everyone wants him, because he doesn't seem like a great fit in the new series.

WHY IS RIDDLER FRIGHTENING OR THREATENING?
I have always seen riddler as one of batmans worst villains, almost all of his plots are foiled easily by bats, while providing less of a threat than most of his other rogues.

 

[Jolly C.]

bgates i could see that happening nice job. thedrizzle59 your idea would be pretty cool too. it would tie to the first film plus Black Mask would be Batmans opposite since Bruce didnt murder the prisoner and Roman did so Black Mask is what Bruce could have become, nice....

The Coleman Reese part i had the idea of the Riddler himself going to Reese's house and waiting for him until he gets home and sort of interrogates him but doesnt want him to give any straight answers then he comes to the question "who is batman?" Then as soon as Reese trys to answer the Riddler says "shhhh you'll spoil the surprise." Then Riddler presents Reese with some sort of Riddle and Reese gives an answer that he thinks is right then Riddler says "Hmmm I never thought about it that way", then leaves his house but as he leaves on the street he says "but thats the wrong answer" and pulls out a detonator and Reeses house explodes.

 

[Green Ghoul]

He's a 42-year-old ex-cop who was diagnosed with Parkinson's Disease at age 40. He quit the police force to become a private detective after his superiors decide that the increasingly severe symptoms of his disease make him unfit to be an active-duty cop. He's bitter and determined to prove that he still has what it takes despite his disease, and when the Batman arrives in Gotham City he sees it as an opportunity to prove that he still has what it takes by identifying and capturing the Batman.

This little origin story allows for several traits that most interpretations of The Riddler have in common: His motivation for being obsessed with finding out who the Batman is comes from genuine emotions like revenge and pride that most people can relate to. He becomes very good at puzzles, riddles and word games because he uses them to occupy his time now that his disease has made physical activity difficult. His standard outfit while operating as a private detective includes his favorite olive green tweed jacket and a green fedora. His disease also forces him to use a cane. This also adheres to Nolan's theme of Batman creating the villains he faces, since his presence inspires the detective to become "The Riddler."

I really like this idea. It would be interesting if Edward started out with good intentions, trying to be Gotham's new hero by unmasking the Batman. Somewhere along the lines it becomes personal. Perhaps Batman humiliates him publicly, or Edward realizes Batman is a greater challenge than he predicted. His ego gets the best of him and his methods become more unethical as desperation kicks in. This would tie in nicely with TDK and the lectures we got from the Joker about ambitions and corruption.

Personally I think the cops and the Riddler should pressure Batman, while Roman Sionis (Black Mask) is busy trying to kill Bruce Wayne.

Although I've never been a big supporter of the Black Mask, I think Bruce needs to be in harm's way just as much as the Batman is. Let's face it, the cops are hunting Batman right now. If Batman had any common sense he would just keep a low profile and stick with the Bruce Wayne persona for awhile. Something should force Bruce out from hiding. If Batman and Bruce both had their backs to a corner, which one would be known for fighting back? Obviously Batman.

 

[Mindreaper21]

Why would The Riddler work with cops? He HATES cops...

...and babies...

t:...Yes THIS is why he's treatening.

 

[Avengers-Report]

Well said. Besides, can anyone recall the Feds being involved in Batman? You have to be smart about this one. If the Feds didn't show up for The Joker, they won't show up at all. Joker killed the Commishioner, a Judge, attemted to kill the Mayor, and threatened to kill the Disrict Attourney. Not to mention the stunt Scarecrow and Ras pulled. Why in the world would the Feds show up now? Thats just being rediculous...No FBI, secret agents, etc. The Riddler is a criminal, simple.

Not to mention the Joker blew up a hospital, robbed banks and threatened to destroy a boats and bridges. So I would have to agree with no Feds in this next movie.

 

[Rodrigo90]

My God that panel with the Baby,that is very disturbing...Riddler couldn't be that evil if he were a Fed.

 

[ronny]

That's one of the darkest things I've ever seen in a Batman comic. Although they describe Riddler perfectly, a 'sadistic runt'.
That's the core of the character. Not to be suave or debonair, but to be annoying and really quite a coward. And in this respect he is a totally different kettle of fish to Ras or Joker. Both of whom were exceptionally brave.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Yeah. Riddler is a coward and a sadistic runt. He hides behind his traps.

Thats what I want him to be like. Creating challenges for Batman as a psychopath,not traps as a Fed or anything.

People dont understand I think. Jigsaw utilises traps that make people give up a part of their body or something. He forces people to do things they dont want in order to see how much their life is important to them.

Riddler should be a guy who is sadistic and creates challenges (not traps) for people who are in high Authority and intelligent enough (the Police).

Maybe with all the focus on everybody trying to catch Batman (After Batman has p****d him off),Riddler creates a challenge in the form of a trap,that will kill him if he isnt smart enough.