Riots in Missouri - Part 1

[Breogan]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...38c7b4-5964-11e4-bd61-346aee66ba29_story.html

“Seven or eight African American eyewitnesses have provided testimony consistent with Wilson’s account, but none of them have spoken publicly out of fear for their safety, the Washington Post sources said.”
?

Cops supposed story leak- http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_d2cf8b20-c517-592b-96ba-77d8a5f46fef.html
"Wilson realized that Johnson’s clothing matched a recent radio alert about a suspect in a robbery at a nearby market where cigarillos had been taken. Wilson radioed for assistance and backed up his SUV to Brown and Johnson."
So his initial encounter was to get them off the street, but the return was for matching the robbery.
If he did indeed call it in before backing up, there should be a record.

"the path of a sixth shot, which hit Brown’s forearm and traveled from the back of his arm to his inner arm, means Brown’s palms were not facing Wilson in an act of surrender, according to analysts cited by the Post-Dispatch."

Can someone draw a (non Scooby-Doo) picture of that implied arm position trajectory?

 

[Teelie]

As I remember it, it was claimed he didn't know he was a suspect for that robbery beforehand. Now suddenly he recognized his description?

 

[Breogan]

As I remember it, it was claimed he didn't know he was a suspect for that robbery beforehand. Now suddenly he recognized his description?

Suddenly? To you maybe.
It was reported two months ago - http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=29578567&postcount=160
Maybe didn't fit the correct narrative, of officer not even knowing about the robbery, so it was ignored.

 

[Teelie]

I have not been following this with a close eye looking for every minute detail to pick apart. That the story changed from his not knowing he was a suspect to him knowing it still does need to be explained. How come it was initially reported he had no idea the man was a suspect only for this to change to he knew he was a suspect, which bolsters any actions he took from killing an innocent man to killing a robbery suspect?

 

[chaseter]

Wait…Brown was a robbery suspect?

 

[Breogan]

I have not been following this with a close eye looking for every minute detail to pick apart.

Except that's exactly what you are doing.

the [REPORTING OF THE] story changed from his not knowing he was a suspect to him knowing it

Fixed.
The officers story didn't change, since we didn't know it yet. The reporting of the story is what changed.

The Police chief said 1st contact was not about the robbery, more than that he didn't know, and he said so.
There were two contacts, 1st he didn't know -2nd (the return) he did, that's why the officer backed up.
Figure it out.

 

[Ilikecomics123]

Ofc. Wilson is probably not going to be indicted.

I said that months ago, and I'm saying it now.

It's just my prediction, not what I'm hoping for, because I wasn't there, so I have no clue what happened between Wilson and Brown...

Similarly, even if he is indicted, the chances of him going to trial and a jury of 12 unanimously agreeing that he is guilty of murder beyond a reasonable doubt is highly highly unlikely.

If it were to go to trial, and misdeeds were proven beyond a reasonable doubt in the jurors' minds, then a lesser charge of manslaughter would probably be the likely verdict.

The protesters and the race-baiters and the political-agenda-pushers are not gonna be happy, no matter what the outcome...

and my prediction has been and still is that they are not gonna get a whole lot.

No bill of indictment...

On to the next case, people.

The media and the power-hungry jumped all over this incident and turned it into a national fiasco...

 

[Breogan]

The protesters and the race-baiters and the political-agenda-pushers are not gonna be happy, no matter what the outcome...

and my prediction has been and still is that they are not gonna get a whole lot.

No one I think should be "happy" either way.
And I really don't care what people "want" to get out of it, that shouldn't drive the decision, I'm just interested that the evidence clearly support the dissension, either way.

This is a bit annoying, again from- http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...38c7b4-5964-11e4-bd61-346aee66ba29_story.html

Some of the physical evidence — including blood spatter analysis, shell casings and ballistics tests — also supports Wilson’s account of the shooting, The Post’s sources said, which cast Brown as an aggressor who threatened the officer’s life.
...blood spatter evidence shows that Brown was heading toward the officer during their face-off, but analysis of the evidence did not reveal how fast Brown was moving.

Still nothing on the actual location of the shell casings, although I'm sure that will inevitably come out.
And what exactly are they describing as "blood spatter evidence shows that Brown was heading toward the officer during their face-off"

Is this blood as it was splattered on the floor?
Is it spread out to suggest he was still moving forward as he was being shot at?
How far apart is the spread?
And do they account for the same distance forward potentially being covered by a 6' 4" man falling forward? That covers allot of ground too!

I really hope they are clear about all this stuff.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Wait…Brown was a robbery suspect?

He robbed a convenience store and manhandled its owner right before he encountered the officer who shot him.

Someone in the store called 911. The officer who shot him however, was unaware that he was the robber. Officially, he stopped Brown and his accomplice because they were walking in the middle of the street.

I'm not exactly sure why you would walk in the middle of the street right after robbing a store, but that's what they were doing apparently.

 

[IncognitoWalrus]

I think the altercation in the car shows the kind of mindset Brown was in - he had just robbed a store, and now a cop was stopping by him. Ofc. Wilson might not have known he was a robber, but Brown would've suspected that at the very least.

 

[chaseter]

He robbed a convenience store and manhandled its owner right before he encountered the officer who shot him.

Someone in the store called 911. The officer who shot him however, was unaware that he was the robber. Officially, he stopped Brown and his accomplice because they were walking in the middle of the street.

I'm not exactly sure why you would walk in the middle of the street right after robbing a store, but that's what they were doing apparently.

But I thought Brown was a loving, young, upstanding boy that loved life and his family and friends?

 

[Schlosser85]

Of course he was. Don't you know anyone "executed" by a cop is an innocent victim probably bringing flowers home to his grandma?

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

I think it is irrelevant as to whether Wilson knew he was a robbery suspect or not. Why? He did ask them to get out the middle of the road, and they refused. Brown did not listen, and from the new 7-8 black witness accounts we know that he did in fact attack the officer. After an officer has been attacked, he is going to see the assailant as a threat. The moment he got physical with the officer, there was no other way for him to be viewed. When told to stop, and refusal, after being beaten and reportedly his gun going off from Brown reaching at holster... just what do you expect to happen when going towards the officer? It really looks more clear cut that he caused his own death. The forensic evidence and black witnesses coming forward really indicate a protest from judging without evidence. Sharpton should have came out and asked everyone to wait on evidence, but chose to further this mess into something bigger.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Not all witnesses on the scene who give the same account were black. I mean, not that it matters. But, if people want to claim that Wilson is being cornered by racist witnesses, the claim doesn't hold up because not all the witnesses are black.

I think most would agree that a police officer ought to be able to takedown an unarmed suspect without the use of lethal force. The concept of a civilian being afraid for their own life and shooting an unarmed person wouldn't be treated the way this has been. It's strange how we have a higher standard for untrained civilians than we do for, supposedly, trained officers.

I'm really finding the leaks troublesome. Especially with how the autopsy seems to have been inappropriately used to validate Officer Wilson's side, when the person who performed it has to go on air and point out that the autopsy doesn't side with anyone.

This case has been so badly mishandled, that's it's been pretty damn laughable. The writing is on the wall on what will happen. I'm just wondering what will happen once it becomes official.

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

From Holder's response and considering his power, if there was anyway to avoid a riot and get Wilson in jail, somewhere down the line we would have saw leaks condemning Wilson. As investigations have taken place and more witnesses stepped forward, it is looking like a clean shoot instead.

 

[Schlosser85]

Sharpton should have came out and asked everyone to wait on evidence, but chose to further this mess into something bigger.

Al Sharpton doesn't give a **** about evidence, or the truth of what happened. For that matter, Al Sharpton doesn't give a **** about Ferguson, its citizens, black or white, or Michael Brown and his family.

Al Sharpton cares about publicity. It's all he and Jesse Jackson ever care about. They're phony as a three dollar bill.

I think most would agree that a police officer ought to be able to takedown an unarmed suspect without the use of lethal force. The concept of a civilian being afraid for their own life and shooting an unarmed person wouldn't be treated the way this has been. It's strange how we have a higher standard for untrained civilians than we do for, supposedly, trained officers.

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask why Wilson couldn't have shot out his kneecaps, or something. But you can't charge at a police officer and then complain about what happens. At that point you're just asking for it, and you're responsible for your own fate.

 

[Howlett]

Al Sharpton doesn't give a **** about evidence, or the truth of what happened. For that matter, Al Sharpton doesn't give a **** about Ferguson, its citizens, black or white, or Michael Brown and his family.

Al Sharpton cares about publicity. It's all he and Jesse Jackson ever care about. They're phony as a three dollar bill.



I don't think it's unreasonable to ask why Wilson couldn't have shot out his kneecaps, or something. But you can't charge at a police officer and then complain about what happens. At that point you're just asking for it, and you're responsible for your own fate.

Officers(and anyone who takes gun training) are taught to shoot center mass because it's the biggest target and you don't want to miss once you've decided the threat is great enough to shoot. Shooting at arms or legs to wound is much more difficult to do than it sounds, and ideally you want to fire as few shots as possible in a public area to avoid any accidental ricochets or collateral damage.

 

[Schlosser85]

Thanks for the explanation. I can understand that. And like I said, I really can't feel pity for someone who charges a police officer and gets shot. You have no right to do that and then be surprised or angry about what happens to you.

 

[Kelly]

Officers(and anyone who takes gun training) are taught to shoot center mass because it's the biggest target and you don't want to miss once you've decided the threat is great enough to shoot. Shooting at arms or legs to wound is much more difficult to do than it sounds, and ideally you want to fire as few shots as possible in a public area to avoid any accidental ricochets or collateral damage.

Thanks for the explanation. I can understand that. And like I said, I really can't feel pity for someone who charges a police officer and gets shot. You have no right to do that and then be surprised or angry about what happens to you.

It isn't just cops, when you go in to get your permit to carry a concealed weapon you are taught to shoot center mass....

I think once Brown went after him in the car, and then turned on him again in the street, all bets were off.

I can understand the anger of the people in this community against the police, I see it here in the community I live in where I AM the minority....the "chip on the shoulder" of our minority youth is getting bigger and bigger, and part of the blame should be aimed at the police, BUT...it has to go both ways. You CANNOT lie in situations like this, if you want to be respected and believed, then earn it, and STOP allowing idiots of Al Sharpton to hijack the truth for their own gain.

 

[Asgard]

It isn't just cops, when you go in to get your permit to carry a concealed weapon you are taught to shoot center mass....

I think once Brown went after him in the car, and then turned on him again in the street, all bets were off.

So, Mike Brown was supposedly shot in the hand in the cop's car, runs away while being shot at, and then decides to turn around and charge at the cop? Doesnt sound believable to me.

 

[Kelly]

So, Mike Brown was supposedly shot in the hand in the cop's car, runs away while being shot at, and then decides to turn around and charge at the cop? Doesnt sound believable to me.

ok...

 

[Howlett]

So, Mike Brown was supposedly shot in the hand in the cop's car, runs away while being shot at, and then decides to turn around and charge at the cop? Doesnt sound believable to me.

It doesn't really matter what you find believable when evidence suggests otherwise. He fought with a cop, after robbing a convenience store. He wasn't exactly the best decision maker.

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

So, Mike Brown was supposedly shot in the hand in the cop's car, runs away while being shot at, and then decides to turn around and charge at the cop? Doesnt sound believable to me.

According to majority of witness reports: Brown attacked the cop, then evaded. When the cop started to chase for evading, he turned around and moved forward. Wilson said more than once according to multiple witnesses to stop, and it was ignored. The moment he attacked the cop he was considered a serious threat, which is why he was shot for proceeding against order. I don't know why that sounds so unbelievable to you

 

[Thundercrack85]

The evidence suggests a struggle, and him being shot at (at least once) at very close range.

 

[Asgard]

According to majority of witness reports: Brown attacked the cop, then evaded. When the cop started to chase for evading, he turned around and moved forward. Wilson said more than once according to multiple witnesses to stop, and it was ignored. The moment he attacked the cop he was considered a serious threat, which is why he was shot for proceeding against order. I don't know why that sounds so unbelievable to you

By chase for evading you mean fire multiple times at him while he was running away, right? What I find unbelievable in Wilson's story is that Mike would suddenly turn around and rush after the officer at that point. It doesnt make any sense to get shot, run away, and then turn around and charge at the officer who's shooting at you.

Where is the majority of witness accounts that say Mike charged at the officer? Most of the ones Ive read or seen point to Mike surrendering with his arms to up.