Riots in Missouri - Part 2

[Lantern Venom]

Honest query to the pro-Wilson crowd: why did he not avail himself of the simple protection of, ya know, rolling his window up and locking his door? I mean, if he was so scurrred and everything.

I don't know whether the blame Wilson personally or his department, but the response to the situation was as poorly executed as police work gets. We know that Wilson confronted two men, one of whom was much larger than him, by himself with no partner, no backup, and no video camera recording the situation. If all of Ferguson's police work is that poor, no wonder the community is angry.

 

[Flint Marko]

I don't know whether the blame Wilson personally or his department, but the response to the situation was as poorly executed as police work gets. We know that Wilson confronted two men, one of whom was much larger than him, by himself with no partner, no backup, and no video camera recording the situation. If all of Ferguson's police work is that poor, no wonder the community is angry.

Dispatch recordings indicate that he called for back-up at 12:02 pm, which is obviously before the altercation began.
And as I mentioned in a previous post, what a strange thing to call back-up for two measly jaywalkers?

 

[craigdbfan]

Seriously? This is all grasping at straws.
Let's look at what we do know:
Michael Brown was a criminal who had just stole from a convenience store, and was clearly violent in doing so.

He and his friend were walking in the middle of the street (another crime, but whatever) and the officer initially confronted them telling them to get off the street. The criminals themselves admitted they refused and were uncooperative. I can send you a link verifying this.

Here are some more stone cold facts. According to documented police records, the order of events are as follows:

11:53: the call comes in about the convenience store robbery
11:57: the description of said thieves goes out, describing exactly what Brown was wearing
12:00: Wilson radios in asking if the other officers need backup to find said suspects, clearly showing he had heard the previous dispatches

Unspecified times: Wilson sees Brown and Johnson jaywalking and yells at them to get back in the sidewalk: according to Johnson's own admission, they refused and were uncooperative

12:02: Wilson requests backup (what a strange thing to request for two simple jaywalkers?) after allegedly recognizing Brown as the suspect in question.

At this point, in the official story, Wilson tells them to get onto the street but then realizes Brown is matching the description of the aforementioned robber in the convenience store. He then reverses his car and gets out either to confront him about the jaywalking or the robbery (depending on which story you encounter; either way, clearly the two were disruptive and uncooperative) and an assault continues. That being said, I feel like common sense would tell you to believe the story of the guy with the gun, badge, and spotless record as opposed to the people who had just committed a crime mere minutes beforehand.
After that, the rest is history.
I'm sorry but the stone cold facts that we do have just don't support this outrage a lot of people seem to find themselves in, and the jury appears to agree with me. And I say that as someone that does not know everything involved with this case. People need to quit looting in the name of a supposed "martyr" who was clearly a criminal to begin with. People need to stop making this race thing. An unarmed teenager died and while that is tragic, it isn't all that ridiculous, crazy, or unheard of considering he attacked somebody with a gun to begin with.
Also if I had a gun and someone were reaching for it, I wouldn't exactly expect that their fingerprints were on the gun as I might be dead if that were the case.

I find it shocking how so many people can avoid the truth based on the cold hard facts. It's scary really. Forensics, federal and state sanctioned autopsy, dispatch records, and legitimate witness reports all ignored in favor of supporting a criminal as a way to support a misguided agenda.

Awful.

 

[Flint Marko]

I find it shocking how so many people can avoid the truth based on the cold hard facts. It's scary really. Forensics, federal and state sanctioned autopsy, dispatch records, and legitimate witness reports all ignored in favor of supporting a criminal as a way to support a misguided agenda.

Awful.

I completely agree, it's a shame.
It comes down to people either wanting to be offended or outraged ("Oh this is race thing! He shot him simply because he was black and not because he was a violent criminal trying to assault him!"), or wanting to believe in a conspiracy ("Oh the police and the government are clearly hiding something! There they go again, botching up another investigation!") or both.
I won't pretend for a second that racism doesn't exist, or that the government is not trustworthy a lot of the times. But in this particular case let's quit buying into the hype (which began to build up well before the facts were even out in the open), take a step back, and apply Occam's razor and see what we get.

 

[Lantern Venom]

Dispatch recordings indicate that he called for back-up at 12:02 pm, which is obviously before the altercation began.
And as I mentioned in a previous post, what a strange thing to call back-up for two measly jaywalkers?

Then why wasn't it there? Why was he riding alone in the first place? Why did he engage two people at a close distance if he knew the altercation could turn violent and he could be at a disadvantage? Where was his recording equipment?

That's not how the police are supposed to handle this type of situation. They job is to solve the problem, which might include an arrest, but with the least amount of conflict possible. Handling it improperly can escalate the situation. I don't know what percentage of the blame goes to Wilson and how much should be shared by his department, but the situation wasn't met with sound judgment.

 

[SuperJediHero]

Yup, if people really think they are correct in police conspiracy, then PROVE it! Don't try to convince everyone without any solid facts.

If you can prove it, we will believe it.

A lot of these protesters just don't give a damn about evidence, all they care about is what the hell they think themselves. A lot of online people, of course, are the same.

Damn disturbing!

 

[Asgard]

I find it shocking how so many people can avoid the truth based on the cold hard facts. It's scary really. Forensics, federal and state sanctioned autopsy, dispatch records, and legitimate witness reports all ignored in favor of supporting a criminal as a way to support a misguided agenda.

Awful.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/25/ferguson-grand-jury-evidence-mistakes_n_6220814.html

The forensics dont tell the whole story when the Ferguson PD didnt even do their due diligence when collecting and investigating said evidence. For example, Wilson said Mike Brown grabbed his gun. How are we supposed to know that for a fact when they didnt even check his gun for Brown's fingerprints?

There are numerous witness statements that say Brown had his hands in the air when he was shot and not in his waistpants like Wilson states

 

[Godzilla2000]

Regardless of what happened why does this warrant all this violence? People are losing their homes and their businesses to rioters and their fires yet no one is stopping this? Why are we sympathizing with people who are acting out with blatant criminal behavior? They are going to suffer themselves when they find themselves refugees of their own anger. I would not welcome these insane individuals who want to set the world on fire because they're angry into my town at all. Jeez, my cousin decades ago was murdered by Drug dealers and our family didn't attack the suspects or set fire to the convenience store she worked at. Such a pitiful most likely marijuana, drug and alcohol fueled overreaction.

 

[SuperJediHero]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/25/ferguson-grand-jury-evidence-mistakes_n_6220814.html

The forensics dont tell the whole story when the Ferguson PD didnt even do their due diligence when collecting and investigating said evidence. For example, Wilson said Mike Brown grabbed his gun. How are we supposed to know that for a fact when they didnt even check his gun for Brown's fingerprints?

There are numerous witness statements that say Brown had his hands in the air when he was shot and not in his waistpants like Wilson states

Regardless, if it can not be proven, useless theories in the end. You can't convict someone by saying "Possibly a coverup by police department"!

Again, many witnesses are Unreliable.

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

Which is part of the problem of defining what racism actually really is. It's much more complicated and nuanced than that.

I thought the same as well until I actually took an AA sociology class a few semesters back. Illuminating to say the least...

As a college student myself, I hate when every time someone takes a class they think they have some superior insight into a topic because they were "educated" on it. Part of what I took away from sociology class is that there is no exact science. The phrase “Power + Prejudice = Racism.” was invented by Bido and popularized by Katz, and ALWAYS gets referenced in like every sociology class. It's a way to make students feel they are getting a new "profound" view on the topic and sets up the entire semester to view the professor as some genius deep thinker...

 

[SuperJediHero]

Regardless of what happened why does this warrant all this violence? People are losing their homes and their businesses to rioters and their fires yet no one is stopping this? Why are we sympathizing with people who are acting out with blatant criminal behavior? They are going to suffer themselves when they find themselves refugees of their own anger. I would not welcome these insane individuals who want to set the world on fire because they're angry into my town at all. Jeez, my cousin decades ago was murdered by Drug dealers and our family didn't attack the suspects or set fire to the convenience store she worked at. Such a pitiful most likely marijuana, drug and alcohol fueled overreaction.

Why?

A lot of agitators are law-breaking people to begin with. They don't care about MB, they just want to cause Chaos, like the Joker! Or loot stuff for themselves.

This is why I have a HUGE problem with protests like this, law-breaking people will pretend that they are one of the 'peaceful' protestors at first...

 

[Sun_Down]

So nobody is going to respond to the quoted article outlining the seven different ways the police screwed up and Wilson contradicted himself?

Nobody?

 

[SuperJediHero]

So nobody is going to respond to the quoted article outlining the seven different ways the police screwed up and Wilson contradicted himself?

Nobody?

*SIGH*

Distrust (Which really is all these 7 points are) != Facts!


The evidence was crystal clear that Michael Brown had a scuffle with Wilson in his car, then attacked the Officer!

 

[Matt Mortem]

My take on it (and I could be a bit off on this). This kid, from what I gather, robbed a store. That's a no-no, obviously. He may have thrown some **** the cops way, another no-no, obviously. None of that matters. Dude shouldn't have gotten shot. If the nutbags that shot Gabbie Giffords and blew away a movie theater full of people can get arrested without taking a bullet, why couldn't this kid, or so many others like him. That's my problem with the whole situation. From what I have come to understand, at some point the kid might have done something wrong, but it in no way warranted getting the **** shot out of him. Just my two cents.

 

[Webfoot Hero]

My take on it (and I could be a bit off on this). This kid, from what I gather, robbed a store. That's a no-no, obviously. He may have thrown some **** the cops way, another no-no, obviously. None of that matters. Dude shouldn't have gotten shot. If the nutbags that shot Gabbie Giffords and blew away a movie theater full of people can get arrested without taking a bullet, why couldn't this kid, or so many others like him. That's my problem with the whole situation. From what I have come to understand, at some point the kid might have done something wrong, but it in no way warranted getting the **** shot out of him. Just my two cents.

I don't think you can compare the two cases since they're so different. In Gifford's situation, the shooter shot wildly into the crowd and was then tackled by multiple bystanders while he was reloading and didn't put up much of a struggle once subdued. In Brown's case, he physically assaulted a solo officer, grabbed the officer's gun, and then charged the officer. You do any one of those things and the chance of getting shot goes up. Doing all three would make any officer feel threatened and a guarantee of non-lethal force is out the window.

The whole situation could have been prevented had Brown and his friend just walked on the sidewalk to begin with and Wilson would likely have just gone about his business. Wilson was going to go to lunch before seeing the two walking in the middle of the street. Wilson also thought that he'd just have a quick conversation about them moving over to the sidewalk but it turned into a very terse conversation, which led to it turning physical and ultimately deadly. To me, Brown is much more responsible for the situation turning sour than Wilson, based on his demeanor and actions once Wilson started talking to him.

 

[Supernova]

I see the ice bucket challenge fad has been replaced by protesting and looting.

Seriously this is beyond stupid now, we have the facts and the cop was let go and yet people are acting like wild animals with no common sense for a kid they didn't even know existed until the news talked about it. Instead of clogging streets and blocking people who are trying to go to work in various cities and actually earn a living why don't these idiots try the same practice? Beyond stupid at this point,

"brown was not honored by the court so I'll go steal some Jordan's from a store in his honor"

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Regardless of what happened why does this warrant all this violence? People are losing their homes and their businesses to rioters and their fires yet no one is stopping this? Why are we sympathizing with people who are acting out with blatant criminal behavior? They are going to suffer themselves when they find themselves refugees of their own anger. I would not welcome these insane individuals who want to set the world on fire because they're angry into my town at all. Jeez, my cousin decades ago was murdered by Drug dealers and our family didn't attack the suspects or set fire to the convenience store she worked at. Such a pitiful most likely marijuana, drug and alcohol fueled overreaction.

Where do you get your info on psychological reactions to cannabis? Reefer madness?

Weed doesn't make people violent. Quite the opposite actually.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

Unless you're taking antipsychotic medication, maybe.

EDIT: Took out the confused last sentence.

 

[The Shape]

At this point, it really doesn't matter whether the decision not to charge Wilson was right or wrong. It's over and done with, out of our hands. The people who are violently rioting, looting, and "peacefully protesting" by blocking traffic and walking down highways in big cities should be ashamed of themselves.

 

[Supernova]

At this point, it really doesn't matter whether the decision not to charge Wilson was right or wrong. It's over and done with, out of our hands. The people who are violently rioting, looting, and "peacefully protesting" by blocking traffic and walking down highways in big cities should be ashamed of themselves.

They have nothing better to do or are on government assistance so they have the time paid for. Most of them want to be "in" with what's going on and probably have no clue what there protesting for. These are the ones who shouldn't be reproducing in society as they'll only create more just like them, ya know idiots

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I completely agree, it's a shame.
It comes down to people either wanting to be offended or outraged ("Oh this is race thing! He shot him simply because he was black and not because he was a violent criminal trying to assault him!"), or wanting to believe in a conspiracy ("Oh the police and the government are clearly hiding something! There they go again, botching up another investigation!") or both.
I won't pretend for a second that racism doesn't exist, or that the government is not trustworthy a lot of the times. But in this particular case let's quit buying into the hype (which began to build up well before the facts were even out in the open), take a step back, and apply Occam's razor and see what we get.

I'm not saying there's an elaborate conspiracy but it's quite clear that Wilson's co-workers didn't do their jobs fully and were flat out sloppy in m as ny instances.

How do you not measure the distance
of the shooting (incredibly important detail) and your excuse in court is your camera batteries died and you thought the distance was self-explanatory?

I would'nt even call it a conspiracy or cover-up because there's no real effort to hide the bias. It's obvious and they don't care who knows it.

Dead batteries? Self-explanatory? To say these things in court for a high profile case and keep your job. Then you have the pro-Wilson crowd quickly dismiss any allegations of bias as insane. Are you serious???

C'mon, the only way she could be more obvious is if she said "I forgot my camera" and "I forgot to measure the shooting distance".

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

They have nothing better to do or are on government assistance so they have the time paid for. Most of them want to be "in" with what's going on and probably have no clue what there protesting for. These are the ones who shouldn't be reproducing in society as they'll only create more just like them, ya know idiots

Where do you get your info?

Seems like you're talking out your rear end.

and the pro-Wilson crowd includes the Klu Klux Klan. Could it be your side is infested with clueless bigots? If you want to slander based on broad generalizations, we can do that too.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

At this point, it really doesn't matter whether the decision not to charge Wilson was right or wrong. It's over and done with, out of our hands. The people who are violently rioting, looting, and "peacefully protesting" by blocking traffic and walking down highways in big cities should be ashamed of themselves.

The rioting and looting is inexcusable and counter-productive but I fully support the civil disobedience to make a statement.

People are protesting in 170 cities and I'd say if it makes one cop think twice about shooting dead an unarmed person, it was completely worth it.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I see the ice bucket challenge fad has been replaced by protesting and looting.

Seriously this is beyond stupid now, we have the facts and the cop was let go and yet people are acting like wild animals with no common sense for a kid they didn't even know existed until the news talked about it. Instead of clogging streets and blocking people who are trying to go to work in various cities and actually earn a living why don't these idiots try the same practice? Beyond stupid at this point,

"brown was not honored by the court so I'll go steal some Jordan's from a store in his honor"

The investigation and prosecution was a sham. Wilson's co-workers obviously didn't want him indicted.

This is really bigger than one guy getting shot be the police. This is about police being immune to the law and a broken justice system.

And the protesting occurs at night meaning most people don't miss work because of it, protestors included.

 

[Supernova]

Where do you get your info?

Seems like you're talking out your rear end.

and the pro-Wilson crowd includes the Klu Klux Klan. Could it be your side is infested with clueless bigots? If you want to slander based on broad generalizations, we can do that too.

I'll bite, it's not hard actually to see who is protesting, do you think most of these people are actually taking time off of work for this nonsense? If your incinuating that I think only black people are protesting then Your wrong all around. Many idiots from all ethnics are protesting and rioting and looting but however most blacks are shown on the news fleeing stores with merchandise so maybe direct your bigot claims that way next time. I can throw out claims all day but I really don't need too, you have clueless people protesting and causing chaos all over the country now for a decision out of our control. My message to ALL involved in this non sense is stop wasting my time and go to work and get off my highways and streets.