The Rise of Skywalker Rise of Skywalker Leaks and Spoilers thread

[scarlet-witch]

It’s actually a pretty beautiful take and a way to tie up the lose end of Anakin and Padmè; Ben essentially does what Anakin was too twisted to — save the one he loves. Out of love and compassion, he heals her. It’s a direct payoff to Revenge of the Sith and not something to just be waved away, me thinks.

It's certainly better than just getting tossed into a pit never to be seen again, but I still think it's boring storytelling to kill Kylo.

 

[Gothamsknight]

It’s actually a pretty beautiful take and a way to tie up the lose end of Anakin and Padmè; Ben essentially does what Anakin was too twisted to — save the one he loves. Out of love and compassion, he heals her. It’s a direct payoff to Revenge of the Sith and not something to just be waved away, me thinks.

Exactly. and oh man, it's gonna make me tear up.

 

[Mr. Peanut]

I don't think it needed to be completely mapped out. There was a "plan", and JJ has made that clear, but like the OT it was very nebulous and changed when big answers were changed. To me the issue was simply hiring Johnson.

Yeah, I personally don't think a plan, or lack thereof, was the be all end all factor. A good, creative fantasy writer could have followed up on TFA by filling J.J.'s mystery boxes with a bunch of wonderful ideas. Instead Rian Johnson just pooped in them. That's the real problem, doesn't matter if it was planned or not.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Well, my thing is sure, Kylo may be an a-hole, but the two characters have a strong Force bond that's not going away, in a way we have not seen in Star Wars before. You naturally want to see where something like that goes, and you're naturally going to be curious about the person whom you share this mysterious kind of bond with despite the fact that they are essentially your sworn enemy.

It's just ripe with dramatic possibility. And it's a fresh riff on the dark side/light side struggle that has spanned the 9 films.

@Frodo yeah, I mean I totally get that not everyone's happy with the trilogy, and that's fine-- but I still have to question statements like "there's no story left", "it's a dead end", etc. It's one thing to say "I'm not invested in the story", but it's another to act as if nobody else is and there's literally nothing worth exploring in another Star Wars movie, especially one that purports to conclude the 9 film saga.

The bond that Snoke made, and apparently JJ simply sees as similar to what has come before?

Also saying they have special force bond and calling him an a-hole is like saying the guy who beats his girlfriend, is just an a-hole, but girl you must consider sticking around him. You have a bond after all. Kylo is an all time murder, who spent two films torturing, gaslighting and trying to murder Rey. I mean, we are all adults here right?

 

[Tony Stark]

I don't think it needed to be completely mapped out. There was a "plan", and JJ has made that clear, but like the OT it was very nebulous and changed when big answers were changed. To me the issue was simply hiring Johnson.

I think the problem was giving Johnson too much creative control, not Johnson himself. Rian Johnson is a good film maker. Go watch Knives Out and you will see that. You needed the presence of a producer who would tell him "no", and there was no one there to do that. Everyone got pissed at Feige for interfering with directors like Edgar Wright, and Alan Taylor, well the simple fact is it wasn't their story to tell, and Star Wars was not Rian Johnson's to tell. There were many good things in TLJ, they are just overshadowed by the enormous amount of bad things that make it a train wreck. It started with Luke. The decision to make him a guy that quit on everything, wasn't a character arc it's a shot out of left field, and betrays who the character is.

A movie isn't made by just one person. Even a film that's a singular vision like say Clockwork Orange, it's the combination of actor, director, writer, producer, each doing their part to make a product.

The Empire Strikes Back wouldn't be the classic film that it was if it was only George Lucas. The combination of Lucas with Kasdan, with Irvin Kirshner and Kurtz providing input, with having a strong cast of actors to work with. It's the combination of those things that brought that film to light.

Look at the difference between those films and the prequels where you have primarily Lucas making what he wanted, with "yes man" Rick McCallum basically allowing George to do whatever he wanted with no constructive input.

Kathleen Kennedy is someone that it my opinion is a good producer when partnered with the right people, like her work with Spielberg on Raiders of the Lost Ark and E.T., but she is not someone fit to be the sole creative voice pushing things forward. That's just not her strengths. George trusted her to run Lucas film because of their past relationship, but just like a guy who is good as an offensive coordinator, gets promoted to being a head coach and then they are terrible, the aspect of being the head of a studio such as Lucasfilm is not suited to her strengths.

This is blatantly apparent when both J.J.'s and Kennedy's test screenings miserably bombed, and they had to bring in Lucas. And that brings up another point, yes they did have test screenings, every film does, I don't know why in the hell J.J. is lying about that in the media.

 

[BatLobster]

The bond that Snoke made, and apparently JJ simply sees as similar to what has come before?

Also saying they have special force bond and calling him an a-hole is like saying the guy who beats his girlfriend, is just an a-hole, but girl you must consider sticking around him. You have a bond after all. Kylo is an all time murder, who spent two films torturing, gaslighting and trying to murder Rey. I mean, we are all adults here right?

The bond is still there at the end of the film. We've never seen characters physically interact with each other across great distances in the films before. That would seem like a rather significant development, regardless of how it started.

As for the latter part of your comment, that is not at all what I'm saying. For crying out loud, I am 100% anti-Reylo. It's not something I want to see happen. That doesn't preclude me from finding their Force connection interesting, the way the hero/villain dynamic has been explored in this trilogy is interesting, and thinking Daisy and Adam have amazing on-screen chemistry. From recent J.J. and Terrio quotes, they seem to have a similar view of the relationship. I think of Rey/Kylo as more of a yin-yang thing, and I believe it has to do with who they are connected to in their "Force lineages" and from a metaphorical standpoint they are on parallel, but intersecting journeys-- struggling with the weight of the past in their own ways.

IAnd that brings up another point, yes they did have test screenings, every film does, I don't know why in the hell J.J. is lying about that in the media.

That is a 100% false, clickbait narrative, my friend. Do you honestly believe they brought in George Lucas to re-edit the film?? Because that is part of the story with that "scoop". That is sheer lunacy.

Also, you're not allowed to walk out of test screenings. You have to sign a bunch of stuff, they collect your phones, etc. I've been to them. That is not a thing that happens, or ever would happen. Whoever made up that story did a pretty bad job of even coming up with something convincing. None of the sites reporting on this rumor have any sort of good reputation or track record. I really cannot begin to fathom how anyone could believe that rubbish.

Additionally, they have not test screened any of the new Star Wars films.

 

[Frodo]

@Frodo yeah, I mean I totally get that not everyone's happy with the trilogy, and that's fine-- but I still have to question statements like "there's no story left", "it's a dead end", etc. It's one thing to say "I'm not invested in the story", but it's another to act as if nobody else is and there's literally nothing worth exploring in another Star Wars movie, especially one that purports to conclude the 9 film saga.

From what I understand, to them ,their lack of investment in the current story means there's no story worth telling.

Truthfully, at this point both of SW fandom sides are pretty much talking past each other and don't really seem to care or consider what the other side thinks or feels about the next film.

Both sides of SW fandom have attempted to marginalize each other for two years over basically one film for the most part, which has resulted in a both camps sort of living in their own silos with regards to opinions and dialog.

The only thing that new product that seems to be pleasing everyone is the Mandalorian and Baby Yoda.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The bond is still there at the end of the film. We've never seen characters physically interact with each other across great distances in the films before. That would seem like a rather significant development, regardless of how it started.

As for the latter part of your comment, that is not at all what I'm saying. For crying out loud, I am 100% anti-Reylo. It's not something I want to see happen. That doesn't preclude me from finding their Force connection interesting, the way the hero/villain dynamic has been explored in this trilogy is interesting, and thinking Daisy and Adam have amazing on-screen chemistry. From recent J.J. and Terrio quotes, they seem to have a similar view of the relationship. I think of Rey/Kylo as more of a yin-yang thing, and I believe it has to do with who they are connected to in their "Force lineages" and from a metaphorical standpoint they are on parallel, but intersecting journeys-- struggling with the weight of the past in their own ways.

Luke does it in the same movie. He kisses Leia, holds her hand. And we know this is suppose to mirror what Snoke did, because Kylo mentions how it would have killed Rey to do such a thing earlier in the film. Like it does Luke here.



I find the relationship interesting. That is very different then, she should be curious. At this point, no Rey shouldn't be curious. She knows who he is, and what he has done. Her only interest she should have in him is destroy him and his First Order.

Also have you read the modified spoilers? It does not sound like they have some sort of special bond. It sounds like their bond is based around being the grandkids of Vader and Palpatine.

 

[BatLobster]

Luke does it in the same movie. He kisses Leia, holds her hand. And we know this is suppose to mirror what Snoke did, because Kylo mentions how it would have killed Rey to do such a thing earlier in the film. Like it does Luke here.

I find the relationship interesting. That is very different then, she should be curious. At this point, no Rey shouldn't be curious. She knows who he is, and what he has done. Her only interest she should have in him is destroy him and his First Order.

Also have you read the modified spoilers? It does not sound like they have some sort of special bond. It sounds like their bond is based around being the grandkids of Vader and Palpatine.

True, but these were all developments that we hadn't seen happen before in the films. Just like we hadn't seen Force Ghosts do what we saw Yoda do. So that just brings up another example of something this movie has an opportunity to explore, in terms of this escalation or perhaps "awakening" in the Force that seems to be happening in this trilogy.

I haven't read the modified spoilers, so I probably shouldn't be in this thread haha. We're so close at this point and I already feel like I have a decent enough grasp of where the movie is going. And yeah, if that turns out to be the case that's cool...but that's also part of my point. If they are the grandkids of Vader and Palps, that in and of itself is a crazy bond to have, and especially to then flip that so the grandchild of the Chosen One is the villain and the grandchild of the most evil person in galactic history who destroyed the Skywalker family is the hero. That's what I meant by "Force lineage". IE there's a tremendous amount of intertwined history in their DNA.

I totally agree that she shouldn't start the movie curious. But based on Resistance Reborn, they do seem to be seeding the idea that Rey still has some creeping doubts about herself. Which could leave her vulnerable to more mindgames from Kylo, even if she's actively trying to resist. It could still get under her skin and poke at her self-doubt. Which is still interesting, especially in the context of where we're pretty sure this is all going. I think she will definitely go into this film hating his guts though.

 

[Gothamsknight]

This is blatantly apparent when both J.J.'s and Kennedy's test screenings miserably bombed, and they had to bring in Lucas. And that brings up another point, yes they did have test screenings, every film does, I don't know why in the hell J.J. is lying about that in the media.

If you really believe that BS, then I don't know what else to tell you. There is no 3 cuts and there sure as hell is no Lucas cut either. Don't trust anything you hear from clickbaiters or Cosmicbooknews. There are people out there trying to derail this film and if you're not excited, thats absolutely fine, but just be aware there's A LOT of fake stuff out there.

 

[BatLobster]

Yep. I want this film to be the greatest thing of all time, but that doesn't mean I'd believe a report that saying "The Rise of Skywalker got a 40 minute standing ovation, and when it was over George Lucas came out and praised J.J. for crafting a conclusion to his saga far better than one he could've ever imagined". That is the 'positive' equivalent of the absurd test screening report that's out there.

Make no mistake, these sites and YT channels are profiting off of your geek-biases. That DoomC*** (LMAO @ the idea of believing anything from a guy who calls himself DoomC***). There is a business model to this.

 

[Tony Stark]

That is a 100% false, clickbait narrative, my friend. Do you honestly believe they brought in George Lucas to re-edit the film?? Because that is part of the story with that "scoop". That is sheer lunacy.

Also, you're not allowed to walk out of test screenings. You have to sign a bunch of stuff, they collect your phones, etc. I've been to them. That is not a thing that happens, or ever would happen. Whoever made up that story did a pretty bad job of even coming up with something convincing. None of the sites reporting on this rumor have any sort of good reputation or track record. I really cannot begin to fathom how anyone could believe that rubbish.

Additionally, they have not test screened any of the new Star Wars films.

No I don't think Lucas re-edited the film. I believe Lucas was brought into consult issues with the end of the film. Yes the story was embellished with clickbait, like "walking out of a test screening" yes that's all BS. That doesn't discount that there's a great deal of truth behind them.

Again we're arguing semantics here. The movie was test screened, perhaps not in the traditional way with a focus group audience, but likely by Lucasfilm and Disney execs that were bound by non-disclosures.

The reshoots and changes are verified, and everything that's been reported on Reddit has been very accurate.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

No I don't think Lucas re-edited the film. I believe Lucas was brought into consult issues with the end of the film. Yes the story was embellished with clickbait, like "walking out of a test screening" yes that's all BS. That doesn't discount that there's a great deal of truth behind them.

Again we're arguing semantics here. The movie was test screened, perhaps not in the traditional way with a focus group audience, but likely by Lucasfilm and Disney execs that were bound by non-disclosures.

The reshoots and changes are verified, and everything that's been reported on Reddit has been very accurate.

That is not a test screening...

 

[DarthSkywalker]

True, but these were all developments that we hadn't seen happen before in the films. Just like we hadn't seen Force Ghosts do what we saw Yoda do. So that just brings up another example of something this movie has an opportunity to explore, in terms of this escalation or perhaps "awakening" in the Force that seems to be happening in this trilogy.

I haven't read the modified spoilers, so I probably shouldn't be in this thread haha. We're so close at this point and I already feel like I have a decent enough grasp of where the movie is going. And yeah, if that turns out to be the case that's cool...but that's also part of my point. If they are the grandkids of Vader and Palps, that in and of itself is a crazy bond to have, and especially to then flip that so the grandchild of the Chosen One is the villain and the grandchild of the most evil person in galactic history who destroyed the Skywalker family is the hero. That's what I meant by "Force lineage". IE there's a tremendous amount of intertwined history in their DNA.

I totally agree that she shouldn't start the movie curious. But based on Resistance Reborn, they do seem to be seeding the idea that Rey still has some creeping doubts about herself. Which could leave her vulnerable to more mindgames from Kylo, even if she's actively trying to resist. It could still get under her skin and poke at her self-doubt. Which is still interesting, especially in the context of where we're pretty sure this is all going. I think she will definitely go into this film hating his guts though.

Yes, I agree. And I am cool with new Force stuff, unlike people who cry about anything that might look "too powerful". But that does not make it unique, especially when the same film confirms it in two different moments.

Is it? They aren't related.

Yes, because Rian Johnson came up with a creeper story, that Kennedy liked.

 

[BatLobster]

@Tony Stark

The sources of all the credible leaks so far-- Jedi Paxis on Reddit and Making Star Wars, have not said anything about the film being in disarray and Bob Iger hating the movie, and bringing in Lucas to shape the movie late game. If you're going to go with who's been the most credible, nobody credible in this scenario has validated any of the "test screening" narrative. Those have only been perpetuated by negatively-biased websites and Youtube channels, and not taken seriously elsewhere. John Campea had an epic rant about it on his show yesterday dismantling it.

Yes, we know there were reshoots. We know reshoots are quite normal on a film of this size, and that according to J.J. there were far more substantial reshoots on TFA. Anything beyond that is pure conjecture and editorializing.

 

[Tony Stark]

LOL John Campea the guy that orgasmed at the Last Jedi, talk about a guy with zero credibility.

 

[Tony Stark]

Sorry, I don't want to get sidetracked in a post that was 4 paragraphs about literally the last sentence that I wrote about. The point is, these films really had no direction, and no one serious in charge, Kathleen Kennedy is probably a very good producer, at least I look at her resume and she's worked on some of my favorite films, but as a studio exec? Sorry she doesn't cut the mustard. Rian Johnson is a very talented guy so people running around saying "he sucks" that's not accurate either. A film being good or bad is usually a group collaborative effort or failure.

J.J. is a talented film maker too, but as evidenced by Star Trek Into Darkness (a film I liked BTW), he can have a real mess on his hands. I actually think J.J. is a better producer than a director but he has had some very positive directing jobs including TFA.

The problem here is just that the way this story unfolds basically takes away from the original trilogy, it doesn't add anything to it. The Palpatine thing is a total cop out on a story that is completely devoid of any original ideas. For Kennedy saying their is no source material and then freaking robbing an idea from the Clone Wars cartoons as the space MacGuffin in this film is the height of hypocrisy.

 

[GREEN =w= DAY]

LOL John Campea the guy that orgasmed at the Last Jedi, talk about a guy with zero credibility.

Campea is a shill

Dude will say anything positive about Star Wars to get on Disney’s good side

 

[BatLobster]

Sorry if it felt like nitpicking, but you kind of shot yourself in the foot by concluding on that note and casually addressing those reports as if they're fact, when they are FAR from it. I feel like there's the equivalent of a Fox News bubble going on in fandom where these types of outrageous narratives proliferate with such ease, and it bugs me. It's hard to let that one slide.

As for your other thoughts, hey, that's fine. I've no problem with someone not liking the sequel trilogy and I understand where a lot of the criticism of Kennedy is coming from. She has had her struggles during her tenure, but I also think Disney's release mandate put a strain on things from the jump as they had to go from 0 too 100 really fast, and I think Bob Iger has to own a lot of that. I'm still a fan of the overall output of this era though, and I think it's somewhat telling that the fans who hate the ST but love the Mandalorian still won't give her an ounce of credit for putting Favreau and Filoni together and greenlighting that show in a her first place when she likely gets hundreds of pitches. I do think it's good that J.J. and Terrio consulted with Lucas BEFORE writing the script, and I do kind of hope that in some way he gave the general direction of the story his blessing. But the idea that there are 3 cuts of the film and one of them is his, is objectively hilarious.

 

[Frodo]

At this point, whether there were "test screenings" as claimed or not is niether here nor there as far as I'm concerned. The question for me is more whether whats been reported by alleged rumors and leaks in the plot of TROS on reddit and youtubers actually pans out, and we won't know that until we see the film in a couple weeks.

I do think alot of this reporting is meant to rile up both sides of fandom, which seems to be working like a charm.

It gets into fans heads in the midst of fandom already being divided ,and it makes fan waste energy fighting to confirm if its true ,or not true, when ultimately, it won't matter once we see the final film.

 

[Marvolo]

There's another leak going around now saying Palpatine actually kills Rey, and Kylo force heals her and that's why he gets tossed down the pit.

So there's that I guess.

She heals him after their death star duel. So its fitting that he saves her too.

 

[Marvolo]

Is force heal even a thing? Thought only in the games.

In the Legends Jedi can use the Force to heal. There were Jedi that specialized in being healers for other Jedi. And most Jedi could go into a deep form of meditation that would allow the Force to heal themselves quicker than a normal person heals.

I'm not sure if it's been reintroduced in the new canon but it's not a new idea.

 

[samsnee]

Plus Baby Yoda tried to force heal the Mandalorian in the second episode.

 

[samsnee]

Sad isn't it. While it lacked originality, I loved TFA because it captured most of the heart and spirit of the original trilogy. Now I just look on these last three films with disgust. I didn't think anything could be worse than the prequel trilogy, but this has taken the cake because it basically undid what was a very powerful and simple story in the original trilogy. I wasn't even asking for more films, and had accepted when George said it was done after making the prequels that it was truly done. But when Disney said they were making more, I only wanted to see one thing, Han, Leia and Luke together on screen one more time, and we didn't even get that.

The Rey-quells have been an absolute disaster, barring TFA (which is really just a reboot of ANH), and shows that when you don't have someone like Lucas or Feige involved you will have a disjointed mess on your hand.

I read through all the spoilers on TROS, because I was so thrown back with TLJ, that I wanted to know going in what I was getting into and I can understand why the ending was rewritten 3 different times, and even the current Lucas ending seems stupid and does damage to the original trilogy.

I actually think the direction Rian Johnson was taking, was to make Kylo Ren follow the path that Vader couldn't, and that would have been a far more interesting take than trying to resurrect Palpatine as the ultimate puppet master. Or you know they could have given Snoke a bit of a backstory instead of just making him a Palpatine wannabe.

Quote for truth. The fact that we didn’t get one scene with the original trio is a travesty.

I don’t think they needed to write all three movies out for every plot beat. But basic overall things like Snoke, Rey’s lineage, and Luke’s arc should have been better thought through. Bringing in Palpatine seems like such a desperate last minute move.

 

[Boom]

Honestly, I enjoyed Luke's arc in TLJ a lot. I know it pisses many of you off, but I liked the sort of meta commentary that Johnson was making about the galaxy putting Luke up on a pedestal as being this infallible mythic figure, when in all actuality he was still a man with his own weaknesses and insecurities - some of them even crippling. I thought that was quite humanizing and poignant. And for my money, the fight with Kylo on Crait is one of the best moments in the entire saga. Nope, I've got zero complaints about how they handled Luke.

What killed TLJ for me was basically all of the tedious Resistance/Finn and Rose material. Whenever Luke and Rey and Kylo were on screen? Gold. Everything else? Blegh.