Robin or no Robin?

[Llama_Shepherd]

Answer me this, please: do you think it fits that a man insanely obsessed with protecting innocents from violence trains kids/teenagers to fight against criminals and murderers, risking their lifes and integrities (physical and mental)? And if the answer yes: how is that?

Answer: Yes.

Explanation: He's insane.

I get the idea behind taking a kid off the street and teaching them discipline, and to fight off evil instead of leaving them a damaged mess, left to their own devices, where they could become evil themselves. That's the great part about the origin for these Robin's, Grayson especially. But for Bruce to train them at a young age then soon after he encourages them to put on a suit and fight crime as his sidekick? That's stupid. It doesn't make any sense. It goes against what Batman is all about.

That's why i like the suggestion of Bruce taking in Dick (maybe not at age 10, but 14-16 works). He sets him up with a job at Wayne Enterprises, something small on the side. To avoid suspicion. He takes him into Wayne Manor as well. Bruce mentors him. Dick doesn't go out on the field. He's like an oracle-type. Soon enough, Dick defies Bruce and wants to become his own hero. Either to do it on his own or to aid Batman on the streets. Batman disagrees. He encourages him to become a cop who can move up in the ranks in order to replace Gordon at some point.

Dick doesn't want to. He gives Bruce an ultimatum. He walks or Bruce can train him. At this point he can be like 17. Bruce feels forced to do it. Grayson becomes Nightwing (hey, you can still call him Robin instead). Or instead of calling him oracle back when he started doing that, his nickname was Robin, only he wasn't suited up or fighting.

As Nightwing, he aids Batman when he needs help and he takes care of business by himself when Bruce is busy with meetings, etc. Batman is hitting 40 or something like that around this time, so it gives him a break. And Grayson is old enough. It wouldn't be wrong, and Bruce doesn't have to worry about some little kid on his own. Scrap that mess.

That's as reasonable as any solution. Pretty damn close to DC's current canon (minus couple years).

 

[Infinight888]

I still think a 13-year-old Robin could work. If you go too old, you risk losing the father-son dynamic that makes the Batman & Robin pairing so great.

Answer me this, please: do you think it fits that a man insanely obsessed with protecting innocents from violence trains kids/teenagers to fight against criminals and murderers, risking their lifes and integrities (physical and mental)? And if the answer yes: how is that?

If Robin was going to go after the criminals anyway, then I do. Bruce would see training him as the only way to keep him alive. I also think Bruce would do whatever he can to keep Robin out of the field. Perhaps Robin's entire training is just Bruce trying to keep him safely locked away in the Batcave, and out of danger. This could make some interesting drama between the two when Dick realizes that Bruce never had any intention of letting him in the field.

for Bruce to train them at a young age then soon after he encourages them to put on a suit and fight crime as his sidekick? That's stupid. It doesn't make any sense. It goes against what Batman is all about.

I agree. Bruce should do whatever he can to prevent Robin from fighting. Bruce doesn't give Robin the suit, it should be the same costume he wore at the circus. Robin puts on the suit and goes into combat against Bruce's wishes.

 

[Oswald]

Answer: Yes.

Explanation: He's insane.

Good explanation, almost as good as the "It's a wizard!" Lucy Lawless said in that chapter of The Simpsons. Why Bruce dresses like a bat? He's insane. Why he has a dinosaur in the cave? He's insane. Why he uses teenagers as sidekicks when that openly contradicts his code? He's insane.

You don't have to think anything or try to give coherence to the character with that answer...

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Because insane people need coherence? Isn't that oxymoronic?

Bruce thinks what he is doing is good, so more people doing it, under his guidance and tutelage can only be good, right?

Or do you know better than Bob Kane, Bill Finger, Frank Miller, Grant Morrison, Chris Nolan, Denny O'Neil, etc etc?

 

[Oswald]

Because insane people need coherence? Isn't that oxymoronic?

Insanity doesn't mean complete freedom to everything, although mediocre writers use it in that way (like in Marvel the writers use science like magic which allows everything).

Bruce thinks what he is doing is good, so more people doing it, under his guidance and tutelage can only be good, right?

No, because his primal desire is protecting innocents from violence, and using boys to attack criminals is a flagrant violation of his code. So simple.

 

[Joeyjojo72]

As I said in the other thread, only two options for Robin:

1. 18+
2. Damien (Batman's son iow)

I trust that Affleck, if he's still playing Bats, understands perfectly well why this is the case.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Insanity doesn't mean complete freedom to everything, although mediocre writers use it in that way (like in Marvel the writers use science like magic which allows everything).

I never said he can do anything. However, recruiting to his insane mission is par for the course.

No, because his primal desire is protecting innocents from violence, and using boys to attack criminals is a flagrant violation of his code. So simple.

No. It''s not. Bruce's "mission" is to try an create a community where tragedy similar to what befell him (murdered parents, not being a orphan) is not a frequent occurence. Dick and Jason's entire reason for being Robin is the failure. Not that they did. Otherwise why draw the line at Dick/Jason/Tim, people who are going to go out and protect people anyway, why not include all officers, firefighters?

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

As I said in the other thread, only two options for Robin:

1. 18+
2. Damien (Batman's son iow)

I trust that Affleck, if he's still playing Bats, understands perfectly well why this is the case.

Robin (besides Damian) has now canonically been younger than 17. So it wouldn't be any younger than that anyway.

 

[Micromind]

Here's a solution - Bruce adopts Greyson when he is 18 (Batman Forever got that right.) he is trained and becomes Robin when is is 20 year old.

 

[DeGenerate10]

Here's a solution - Bruce adopts Greyson when he is 18 (Batman Forever got that right.) he is trained and becomes Robin when is is 20 year old.

I wouldn't have a problem with that. I think that would actually make a lot of sense really.

 

[Oswald]

No. It''s not. Bruce's "mission" is to try an create a community where tragedy similar to what befell him (murdered parents, not being a orphan) is not a frequent occurence. Dick and Jason's entire reason for being Robin is the failure. Not that they did. Otherwise why draw the line at Dick/Jason/Tim, people who are going to go out and protect people anyway, why not include all officers, firefighters?

I don't understand what you mean, can you explain it again? However, I've got very clear the primal intention of Bruce Wayne is avoiding violence over the innocents, and the existence of Robin violates this dogma.

 

[Rorschach2012]

Here's a solution - Bruce adopts Greyson when he is 18 (Batman Forever got that right.) he is trained and becomes Robin when is is 20 year old.

Yeah the age of Robin in BF was great.

The Bruce/Dick relationship was actually really well done there. Idc what anyone says

 

[Mindreaper21]

I've never liked Robin at all. Batman is a freaking ninja, so having Robin around all the time is just pointless to me. The closest thing to a sidekick that Batman should ever have is Gordon. However, there are only two options I will accept for Robin (in general).

1. Robin should be grown woman. She should never be Robin all the time and Batman should just be a sort of mentor. Just long enough for Batman to help her get redemption and special missions. I have always loved the idea of a female Robin and Catwoman rivalry as well. Robin would be the only one that truly loves Batman while Catwoman would stab him in the back at any given moment.

2. Dick's tragedy happens as a teenager early in Batman's career. Batman never adopts him, because has his own issues to work out. Instead, Dick vanishes for years, doing his own training. He doesn't want to be Batman's partner. Dick adopts the name Robin and takes on criminals in his own way, which doesn't sit well with Batman. They become somewhat enemies. Eventually, Batman tries to help Dick, trains him properly, and Dick's path leads him straight to Bludhaven.

Not saying that I want this in upcoming movies. These are just ideas.

 

[eon001]

I don't see the point in having an expanded universe if there's no Robin. Seeing as this is an older Batman, I would like to see Tim Drake in training. With Nightwing well into his own superhero career. Jason Todd is the secret that Batman is to ashamed and guilt ridden to talk about. They can set that up for a future Redhood arc.
As the movie series progress Robin leaves for the teen titans/solo career as Red Robin or whatever, and Damien Wayne get's introduced at some point.

 

[eon001]

I still think a 13-year-old Robin could work. If you go too old, you risk losing the father-son dynamic that makes the Batman & Robin pairing so great.



If Robin was going to go after the criminals anyway, then I do. Bruce would see training him as the only way to keep him alive. I also think Bruce would do whatever he can to keep Robin out of the field. Perhaps Robin's entire training is just Bruce trying to keep him safely locked away in the Batcave, and out of danger. This could make some interesting drama between the two when Dick realizes that Bruce never had any intention of letting him in the field.



I agree. Bruce should do whatever he can to prevent Robin from fighting. Bruce doesn't give Robin the suit, it should be the same costume he wore at the circus. Robin puts on the suit and goes into combat against Bruce's wishes.

Definitely the best way to approach it. Instead of encouraging a kid to risk his life, he encounters talented kid that's inspired by him (Or just a random young vigilante) and reluctantly train him.

I would age him up to about 15 though. I think people underestimate how capable teenagers are. In the Olympics we saw teenage athletes that were beating adults in gymnastics, boxing, athletics, swimming, etc. Some as young as 15 and 16 years old. It's not that hard a sell in a fantasy universe.

 

[Wildcard]

I love Robin but I'd rather they go with Batgirl here. I know we can have both but I'd be fine with just Batgirl. Would be nice to finally get a decent live action portrayal of her.

 

[shauner111]

Can't stand Batgirl. Reference the past Robins but don't show them in that role.

 

[Richard Grayson]

Have Nightwing with reference to him having been Robin at one point. Allude to Jason Todd who died. No current Robin. And I'd like to have Barbara Gordon

 

[shauner111]

Exactly.

 

[Wildcard]

Have Nightwing with reference to him having been Robin at one point. Allude to Jason Todd who died. No current Robin. And I'd like to have Barbara Gordon

This is a good idea & I think it'd work.

And I think Batgirl is fantastic so I'm hopeful she makes her way to the big screen again. I've always thought she was awesome. But, that's just my $0.02.

 

[SiegePerilous]

I love the character of Dick Grayson and want him in this universe, but I'd be fine with him ditching the Robin mantle and going straight to Nightwing once he's old enough.

The father/son dynamic between Bruce and Dick is one of relationships that Bruce has, and I think he's a slightly poorer character without it. So I think Dick should be adopted and trained as a child/young teenager, but not see any actual action until he's an adult. Using a kid sidekick against characters like the Joker and Two-Face is just ridiculously dumb.

In most continuities, Barbara Gordon is at least 18 years old when she becomes Batgirl, so that problem doesn't really exist with her. I'd love to see Batgirl in this movie universe as well. I have to confess I've never really cared too much for Oracle outside of a few really well written stories. In the same universe that Cyborg is walking around, and Bruce can be healed from his injury in Knightfall through magic or whatever, why the hell is Barbara still in that damn chair? And there were so many angst ridden flashbacks to the Killing Joke I could stand before it got old. Cyborg has kind of taken over her role as the information hub of the DCU anyway, so I think the Oracle concept is fading.

Aside from those two though? I'm either apathetic to the rest of the Bat-Family, or dislike them entirely. I find none of them all that interesting, and they just smother Batman with their presence. It's why I really don't want Under the Red Hood to be the basis for the solo film, because I want Jason Todd nowhere near this thing. Keep Bruce's inner circle tight with Dick, Alfred, Gordon and Barbara, without it getting overwhelming and redundant.

 

[InspecktahDeck]

There's not a damn realistic thing about Batman to begin with. No adult could do the **** that Batman does on a nightly basis or even once. So why cut out one of the biggest dynamics and potential for storytelling the character has had for decades?

Adopting an 18 year old is asinine, if you're going to have Dick Grayson as an 18 year old just have him as Nightwing already established. If you want him Robin then make him younger.

They'll never do this because filmmakers don't really give enough of a **** about the source material (like people who don't like Robin) to really do them justice.

There's no better way to do a new Batman on film than to make a Batman that actually has a proper Robin instead of another retread.

 

[shauner111]

Calm down Rebel INS

There's not a damn realistic thing about Batman? Yes there is. There's many things that are realistic about the character and many things that aren't.

The reason why they cut out Robin these days is because they haven't had a good response from fans anytime they do the character. Of course a lot of it has to do with them not doing it correctly. But the general public don't care for the character, and not every Batman fan digs him either. So they either stay away from him, think he's too silly, or like in this universe they'll skip the Robin era and already have him as the adult Nightwing. Which works better IMO.

I dont believe Dick Grayson should be fighting at the age of 10, 13 or even 15, sorry. It's always seemed dumb and irresponsible of Bruce to do this. "Isn't that the point? He's a little f'd up"..No. Not enough to do that to a young kid. At the same time i agree with you Deck that he shouldn't be adopted at the age of 18. Gotta be a middle-ground here. Adopted at the age of 15 or 16 sounds about right. But he shouldn't go out there as Robin until he's 16/17. It shouldn't last more than a year before Dick decides to move out on his own as his own superhero. Look at it as a 1 year training without suiting up then 1 year out on the field, even though Bruce assumes that he's going to be Robin longer.

Filmmakers do give a **** about the source material, just not all of them want to rehash what you can see if you pick up a comic book. Some filmmakers want to mutate it and good for them. Especially when it comes to Robin. I dont like the 13 year old Grayson, it's silly and creepy in a bad way.

Jason Todd is pretty generic. I dont care for any of the sidekicks. I can handle Drake and Grayson (as an adult since Nightwing is cool) but i can do without. Red Hood feels like a younger Punisher to me.

All of these Robins get in the way of Batmans mission more than aiding him. They cause him more pain, suffering, stress, annoyance and his relationship with Gordon is usually thrown on the backburner due to major focus being put on Bruce and his younger sidekicks. There's more potential when you do it the Snyder way (assuming that's what's happening). Older Bats, past Robins without showing them, Jason Todd dying and not coming back, Nightwing grown up, Oracle, done. Of course Jena Malone could be Carrie Kelly but i would prefer her as Barbara. Still, it's the best choice.

 

[DjCrenshaw]

No robin.... never ever have a robin again

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Well that's just not the answer