Robin or no Robin?

[Aquafinn90]

I'd love to see Robin done in a manner that is NOT BF or B&R
I am not a comic book fan, so I don't know much about the character but I'd love to see what Affleck does with Robin. Especially if we were to see the Death of Robin in the solo film.

 

[MadVillainy]

I really hope that rumor/fan wish that the solo Batman movie will adapt Under the (Red) Hood.

They can introduce Nightwing and Barbara Gordon in it and then of course show stuff about Jason Todd then maybe in a sequel intro Tim Drake.

 

[Rodrigo90]

It's important to introduce all elements of the Bat-Family in that particular story.
Bruce finally accepting a new Robin by his side... only to have Jason return to his life as an enraged victim of Batman's crusade.

 

[MadVillainy]

It's important to introduce all elements of the Bat-Family in that particular story.
Bruce finally accepting a new Robin by his side... only to have Jason return to his life as an enraged victim of Batman's crusade.

I don't necessarily think that's true.

I know it's animation but the Under the Red Hood DTV didn't include a new Robin and I think that had a good "skeleton" for where the script could go. I barely remember the actual comic storyline, but I thought the DTV did a really good job adapting the story. Was Tim Drake Robin even in the comic story? Not saying they have to tell the comic story exactly but just wondering. I remember Tim being held captive by "Jason Todd" in the Hush storyline

That being said, I wouldnt mind if they introduce a new Robin (hopefully Tim Drake) or even Batgirl in the same movie

 

[Doctor Jones]

I just don't know if Under the Red Hood even works. That comic and concept exists on the precedence of the history of Robin in the comics. In BVS, this hasn't been established. So when Jason comes along it'll be confusing. Nobody has heard of Jason Todd, and as a second Robin? You're introducing so much at once. I feel like this story can't be done unless you make some serious changes. But it's already been done given how Robin has apparently died so they have to follow through on it. They shouldn't even introduced the idea of Robin in this movie, to leave it more open for filmmakers to do their thing. And given how the Robin suit did absolutely nothing for the story of Batman or BVS, it just makes it more frustrating.

At this point, I'm expecting just the darkest Batman stories with no understanding of them. TDKR, TKJ, Red Hood... just these titles that get permeated in pop culture in the most superficial ways. Like the 15 year old boy's guide to Batman and that's the decision making and mindset going on.

 

[MadVillainy]

I just don't know if Under the Red Hood even works. That comics exists on the precedence of the history of Robin in the comics. In BVS, this hasn't been established. So when Jason comes along it'll be confusing. Nobody has heard of Jason Todd, and as a second Robin? You're introducing so much at once. I feel like this story can't be done unless you make some serious changes. But it's already been done given how Robin has apparently died so they have to follow through on it. They shouldn't even introduced the idea of Robin in this movie, to leave it more open for filmmakers to do their thing. And given how the Robin suit did absolutely nothing for the story of Batman or BVS, it just makes it more frustrating.

At this point, I'm expecting just the darkest Batman stories with no understanding of them. TDKR, TKJ, Red Hood... just these titles that get permeated in pop culture in the most superficial ways. Like the 15 year old boy's guide to Batman and that's the decision making and mindset going on.

I dont think anything is that hard to explain. Minor flashbacks and dialogue could fix things
Having Nightwing and dialogue about that solves the problem of establishing the first Robin.
Opening with the flashback of Jason dying establishes the 2nd Robin.

I know I just said it and I know it's animation, but the Under the Red Hood movie really got a lot of things right. Im biased because I know the story, but I feel like you can show that to someone who doesn't know about Jason Todd and they wouldn't be confused at all.

 

[shauner111]

It's important to introduce all elements of the Bat-Family in that particular story.
Bruce finally accepting a new Robin by his side... only to have Jason return to his life as an enraged victim of Batman's crusade.

Meh. Keep Jason dead. I don't think it works in the future of this universe.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Meh. Keep Jason dead. I don't think it works in the future of this universe.

I think it does. Especially with the world being more fantastical than Nolan's.

It'll just depend on where Affleck wants to steer Batman.

 

[shauner111]

I just don't know if Under the Red Hood even works. That comic and concept exists on the precedence of the history of Robin in the comics. In BVS, this hasn't been established. So when Jason comes along it'll be confusing. Nobody has heard of Jason Todd, and as a second Robin? You're introducing so much at once. I feel like this story can't be done unless you make some serious changes. But it's already been done given how Robin has apparently died so they have to follow through on it. They shouldn't even introduced the idea of Robin in this movie, to leave it more open for filmmakers to do their thing. And given how the Robin suit did absolutely nothing for the story of Batman or BVS, it just makes it more frustrating.

At this point, I'm expecting just the darkest Batman stories with no understanding of them. TDKR, TKJ, Red Hood... just these titles that get permeated in pop culture in the most superficial ways. Like the 15 year old boy's guide to Batman and that's the decision making and mindset going on.

B v S was already messy and a bit confusing for the audience when it came to subplots and dream sequences from the future. When we get to a Batman solo prequel (apparently), they should keep it simple. I find it too confusing for the general audience to get used to two Robins being introduced in that Batman movie. They'll have to show a teenage Dick Grayson as Robin, getting ready to become Nightwing. Or he's already moved on and him and Bruce are talking about the past when he was Robin. Then we need to introduce Jason Todd as the second Robin. We need to spend time with this kid, so when he dies in the story, we feel for Bruce and we feel for Jason. But that puts so much more focus on him while leaving Dick in the dust.

To me, it's much easier dealing with ONE Robin, Dick Grayson. Showing him as a teenager or child. Going through all the steps, until he's the one who is murdered by Joker. I know fans want their Nightwing, and i know some fans want Red Hood. But i think this is more effective, less messy, more simple.

 

[Baba3231]

No Robin. Just them in their post-Robin identities. Red Hood and Nightwing. The other two aren't necessary.

What I think will actually happen is that there will be one Robin, Grayson. He gets killed like Todd did in the comics, comes back with the Red Hood identity like Todd did, then becomes Nightwing when he's redeemed or whatever. Putting aside my feelings of liking RH and NW as separate former Robins, I think that could work actually.

 

[Doctor Jones]

I dont think anything is that hard to explain. Minor flashbacks and dialogue could fix things
Having Nightwing and dialogue about that solves the problem of establishing the first Robin.
Opening with the flashback of Jason dying establishes the 2nd Robin.

I know I just said it and I know it's animation, but the Under the Red Hood movie really got a lot of things right. Im biased because I know the story, but I feel like you can show that to someone who doesn't know about Jason Todd and they wouldn't be confused at all.

They'd have to get it really right then. It's just weird they're going to be jumping off with two Robin's already who are no longer Robin anymore. It's a lot of story to tell. You scoot past Robin and go right into what happens after? Robin just logically comes first.

I just don't think they're going to get it.

B v S was already messy and a bit confusing for the audience when it came to subplots and dream sequences from the future. When we get to a Batman solo prequel (apparently), they should keep it simple. I find it too confusing for the general audience to get used to two Robins being introduced in that Batman movie. They'll have to show a teenage Dick Grayson as Robin, getting ready to become Nightwing. Or he's already moved on and him and Bruce are talking about the past when he was Robin. Then we need to introduce Jason Todd as the second Robin. We need to spend time with this kid, so when he dies in the story, we feel for Bruce and we feel for Jason. But that puts so much more focus on him while leaving Dick in the dust.

To me, it's much easier dealing with ONE Robin, Dick Grayson. Showing him as a teenager or child. Going through all the steps, until he's the one who is murdered by Joker. I know fans want their Nightwing, and i know some fans want Red Hood. But i think this is more effective, less messy, more simple.

None of this will happen. The thing is, WB is overly enamored with dark and gritty, Robin doesn't suit their vision and a dead Robin is a better off Robin to them. Robin is too much fun. Red Hood and Night Wing are darker and edgier and fit their vision more.

 

[shauner111]

I don't like the idea of Grayson as Red Hood, skipping over Nightwing. Red Hood should just....not happen. It makes no sense with the kind of Batman we have right now. And i have a feeling we're not getting ANY Batman movie that is set post-Bats v Supes. I think Justice League will bring forth a hellish, post-apocalyptic world once Darkseid comes into play. It will leak into a second part (if the first makes money anyway). Wonder Woman sequels will still be prequels. Flash and Aquaman movies will be origin stories or prequels to Justice League. Green Lantern Corps will be set in space and different planets. Ben probably won't do another solo movie since he's only doing this one if the script is just right. So it looks like the solo film will be a prequel, which means, no Red Hood. Unless they squeeze Under the Red Hood before the events of Batman vs Superman, which is possible, but confusing. Were Batman and Red Hood both killing people at the same time? Was Batman in his early 40s, not killing/branding? OK, if he was, then what happened? Did Jason change Bruce's moral code after their encounter? I find that weak for Bruce's character, if he let Jason win that battle.

 

[MadVillainy]

I don't like the idea of Grayson as Red Hood, skipping over Nightwing. Red Hood should just....not happen. It makes no sense with the kind of Batman we have right now. And i have a feeling we're not getting ANY Batman movie that is set post-Bats v Supes. I think Justice League will bring forth a hellish, post-apocalyptic world once Darkseid comes into play. It will leak into a second part (if the first makes money anyway). Wonder Woman sequels will still be prequels. Flash and Aquaman movies will be origin stories or prequels to Justice League. Green Lantern Corps will be set in space and different planets. Ben probably won't do another solo movie since he's only doing this one if the script is just right. So it looks like the solo film will be a prequel, which means, no Red Hood. Unless they squeeze Under the Red Hood before the events of Batman vs Superman, which is possible, but confusing. Were Batman and Red Hood both killing people at the same time? Was Batman in his early 40s, not killing/branding? OK, if he was, then what happened? Did Jason change Bruce's moral code after their encounter? I find that weak for Bruce's character, if he let Jason win that battle.

Im very curious what you're basing this off of.

 

[shauner111]

Im not saying the whole movie or planet is turning into that. But it's possible. That desert sequence could have been a single area. Or perhaps they're going into bolder territory and actually making Darkseid take over Earth, changing everything. I just don't see Batman going back into Gotham after all this, like business as usual. Hopefully they try something different from Marvel, and make Darkseid succeed in many ways with his plan. Whereas Zod failed when he wanted to turn Earth into Krypton. I would love to see an entire planet at the mercy of Darkseid. A world where governments are unnecessary, Darkseid is a giant dictator. Nothing is normal anymore. He's turned it into his own planet, and the Justice League have to take it back.

As for Robin, keep it simple man! Kill Grayson, no more Robins. Done.

 

[Omegabat]

Well if WB actually had any sense which admittedly I dont think they do then Dick would atleast be Nightwing or Robin because then he'd be able to launch the Teen Titans franchise. WB needs to think in terms bigger than just one solo Batman movie. I hate all these recent attempts to Watchmenize the DC characters. Legacy is important for their universe moving forward,without legacy they're just limited to 5 or 6 major concepts. WB has utterly failed to understand what makes the DC universe tick. They cant kick start an entire universe using Batman,Joker,The Dark Knight Returns etc. BvS has already showed that Batman alone cant carry an entire movie. How long before their Joker bubble also bursts? Teen Titans,JSA,Legion of Superheroes and associated concepts are all based on the legacy aspect,Dick Grayson has been the face of DC's spyverse for the last 2 years, all major DC characters have their own family of characters. If WB wants a universe which they do then they should think about how this universe actually works. Cant use TDKR and Under the Red Hood to kickoff a universe,solo movies sure but those stories do nothing for their larger universe,arguably they hurt it. Dont try to go all Nolan and MCU simultaneously. If Jokers idiot sidekick Harley can work then so can Nightwing/Agent Grayson. Still on topic I think Dick will be Nightwing and any future Al Ghul story is undoubtedly going to introduce Damian.

 

[antoineflemming]

Well, there should be a Nightwing. And, as I explained in another thread, believably, he'd be in his 30s. Since this is, I guess, the Robin thread, I'll explain in further detail:

So, first of all, I think that both Dick Grayson and Jason Todd should be Robin, Jason after Dick. Now, Snyder's already suggested that Robin was killed around ten years before the events of BvS. BvS takes place in 2015 (while the year is never stated in BvS, we know that it takes place 2 years after MOS, and MOS displayed the year as being 2013. So that makes BvS take place in 2015, which matches up with the year that BvS was supposed to originally release in). That said, Robin is killed by Joker around 2005. I'm establishing that now, and will come back to it soon.

So, Bruce Wayne is 45 in BvS. That makes him 45 in 2015, which means he's born in 1970. His parents die in 1981, making him 11 then. Bruce Wayne probably becomes Batman around age 25, so let's say he starts being Batman in 1995. He's 35 when Robin is killed.

Now, I think that Dick Grayson and Jason Todd should be separate people. I also think that Dick Grayson shouldn't be a teenager when Batman recruits him and takes him in. Sorry, but I just have a problem with the notion of Batman having teenagers fighting hardened criminals on the street. Plus, that way, he's not like Spiderman, juggling school and crimefighting. So, going off of that, I think Dick Grayson should be 20 when he becomes Robin.

So, when do I think Dick Grayson should become Robin? Well, I think he should become Robin in 2000. Here's why:

To have Jason Todd be Robin in 2005, when he's killed by Joker, I think Dick Grayson has to become Robin before that. I think being Robin for 3 - 4 years is enough time for him to have a meaningful history with Batman, while leaving enough time for Jason Todd to have some history with Batman as well. And I think that's important because I think that Dick Grayson has to stop being Robin before Jason Todd becomes Robin. For that to happen, Dick Grayson and Bruce have to have some kind of falling out. And that isn't meaningful unless Dick Grayson spends some years being Robin. So, in that scenario, Dick Grayson becomes Robin in 2000, and is Robin for 3 - 4 years (let's say 3 1/2). And Jason Todd is Robin for 1.5 years. Barbara Gordon can also be recruited and become Batgirl within that time (so, before Dick Grayson stops being Robin and before Jason Todd becomes Robin) so that she and Dick Grayson can have some history.

This would mean that Dick Grayson is 20 in 2000, making him only 10 years younger than Bruce Wayne. Now, I know that Dick Grayson is historically an adopted son for Bruce Wayne, but I don't think Dick Grayson can be 20 - 25 years younger than Bruce Wayne in this universe. Even if Dick Grayson is the Robin that Joker kills, he's killed in 2005. If he's just 15 or even 20 when Joker kills him, he'd still be 25 - 30 by the time of BvS, and in that scenario, what history would he really have with Batman? He'd be Robin for like 1 year before being killed. Not only that, but again, I've got a problem with Batman putting a 15 year old on the street fighting crime. So I don't think that he should be a teenager when he becomes Robin, and I don't think he should be 20 years younger than Batman.

All that said, a Dick Grayson who becomes Robin in 2000 at age 20 would be in his late 30s by the time of the solo Batman film, allowing Jason Todd to be younger (between 20 and 25) when he's killed by Joker. And in such a scenario, if they wanted to do Under the Red Hood for the solo film, Jason Todd would be in his early 30s when the Batman solo releases. This would also allow Batman to have a history and a legacy that includes two Robins and a Batgirl. Not only that, but it also allows Batman to have a dark history after Jason Todd is killed, a history that leads him to the place he is in BvS where he's killing some criminals.

So that, imo, is the most logical way to do Nightwing and Jason Todd. It'd mean you wouldn't have a Teen Titans because he, and Cyborg, wouldn't be teens. And with this history, you have the potential to do several films, like Court of Owls or Under the Red Hood, or anything involving Batman's allies. But you don't have that flexibility if you'd got a Nightwing in his 20s, because that rules out Jason Todd (Dick Grayson needs to be Robin before Jason Todd, and you can't have that if Jason Todd dies in 2005, as that'd make Dick Grayson way too young in 2005, and younger than Jason) and then you have Robin dying at too young of an age.

 

[craigaat]

No Tim Drake for me, but the way this universe is set up I don't think we'll see a 'present-day' Robin. I'd have Nightwing and Red Hood with their respective Robins shown in flashbacks. I think three different Robins is too much.

 

[Rodrigo90]

A Robin who wasn't a potential murderer!

http://www.gamesradar.com/batman-v-...&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=buffer_tffb

 

[CaptainWagner]

I really hope that we'll see a present day Robin. He deserves to be properly represented in live action. If they do Red Hood, end it with Batman reaffirming the "No Kill" rule and taking in Tim Drake as a new Robin, finally moving on from the loss of Jason and returning to what made him truely great.

 

[Tg11]

I think that they should go the Red Hood route and then afterwards Ben Affleck's Bruce takes in a young Dick Grayson who ends up becoming Robin/Nightwing similar to Val Kilmer's Batman taking in a young Chris O'Donnell's Robin

 

[antoineflemming]

I think that they should go the Red Hood route and then afterwards Ben Affleck's Bruce takes in a young Dick Grayson who ends up becoming Robin/Nightwing similar to Val Kilmer's Batman taking in a young Chris O'Donnell's Robin

What?! That makes no sense. Dick Grayson shouldn't be younger than Jason Todd.

 

[RustyCage]

Dick Grayson's story deserves to be properly told on film. It takes priority over any other Robin, and most other Batman characters.

 

[CaptainWagner]

I think Grayson should already be grown up in this universe. Maybe Bruce's post-Jason turn towards the darkness pushed him away. I'm still hoping Scott Eastwood is secretly playing him in Suicide Squad.

 

[hellblazer103]

yeah, idk how grayson's the popular choice. we all know him as nightwing is ultimate, lol

 

[Slade W]

yeah, idk how grayson's the popular choice. we all know him as nightwing is ultimate, lol

Seeing him grow into Nightwing could have been pretty great (as long as Snyder didn't handle it).