The Dark Knight Rises Robin

[batlovescatDC]

When they want to kill the new Batman franchise... bring Robin in.

 

[Stupify_me]

I dont see why people are so opposed to there ever being Robin. After all, Batman is a fairly practical guy who is facing a war on crime - what better way to fight such a war than to recruit more soliders?

Yea like children they are a perfect fit.


NO ROBIN

 

[Thespiralgoeson]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The only way I want to see Robin is to see all of it. I just cringe at the idea of introducing Dick Grayson and erasing Tim Drake (the best Robin IMO) and Jason Todd out of existence, or vice versa. For me, what makes the Robin character special is its history. And it's a long history. Dick's evolution into Nightwing, Jason Todd's death, and Tim Drake's maturation into the (I think) definitive Robin are just too important to retconn. I honestly wish we could see the entire history of Robin on-screen, but there's just not enough room for it in the last two parts of a trilogy. Even if there was enough room for it, say if it was a whole saga of movies rather than a trilogy, in Nolan's supposedly real-time universe, this would take many years, and by the time we see Tim Drake as Robin, Batman would be well into his 40's, and I honestly don't ever want to see Batman past his early 30's.

Look, we all know a talented filmmaker like Nolan could show us ANYTHING and make it believable and cool. I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm saying I just don't want to see it. IMO, seeing only a small fraction of Robin and leaving out the rest (Jason Todd and Tim Drake) is a greater disservice to the character than leaving him out altogether. Robin will always have his place in the Batman mythos. I just think Nolan's movies aren't the place.

 

[Stupify_me]

^The new franchise will only die if they have a bad creative team.

Or if they bring in robin.

The comics would be about 10x better if there was no Robin IMHO

 

[Lex Luthor]

Robin can be interpreted better than what we saw with Schumacher at the helm, I assure you.

 

[StorminNorman]

Yea like children they are a perfect fit.


NO ROBIN

If Bruce trains a child who has face similar circumstances to his own, gradually introducing him into the "family buisness" I see no problem. I dont want Robin to start busting up people at the ripe age of 8, however an adopted Robin at age 10,11,12, starting to train him, using him as a scout/intel/etc as a start and then using him in real combat at age 17,18 is not at all unrealistic. I think the real payoff for Batman is not a sidekick in the form of Robin, but a ally in the form of Nightwing.

 

[thedarks0ldier]

Maybe when they made a Teen Titans movie or a Deathstroke movie is when robin should come in, and just have him being trained by Slade and mave the most subtle reverence to Batman, if any.

 

[saint sinner x]

Robin would not work in Nolan's vision that's not an opinion that's a fact. Nolan said it himself robin is still a baby at this point. I would like to see a young dick grayson in the final installment of the batman begins films but a teenage boy in a suit fighting criminals alongside batman? Hell no! he makes it campy and not dark and gritty this is an all out batman story and the focus will still remain on Batman, He is the main concept of the film. I would like to see a cameo of Dr.Victor Freeze before he becomes mr. freeze I believe that would work awesomely and I would like to see Batman foreshadowing the
future as to Bruce Wayne telling Alfred,

BRUCE: Alfred I need a computer with high tech information.

Alfred: With all the money in the world sir I am sure there is many computers that fits your budget.

That dialouge was stupid but you guys get the idea.....

BATMAN BEGINS/CONCEPT IS FEAR

THE DARK KNIGHT/CONCEPT IS DUALITY

SHADOW OF THE BAT/CONCEPT IS DESTINY

Pretty much I hope the concept of the trilogy would go like that because if it does then that would be pretty bad ass.

 

[Thespiralgoeson]

Robin can be interpreted better than what we saw with Schumacher at the helm, I assure you.

Honestly, I actually much prefer Chris O'Donnel's Robin to the comics. I'm sorry, but I just found it much more believable that Batman would take a young man of 20 or so as his crime-fighting partner than a frickin child. Truly, I thought O'Donnel's Robin was Batman Forever's greatest redeeming quality.

 

[Stupify_me]

Well, I don't think so or else D.C. would have gotten rid of the character of Robin by now.

I agree. I don't see how people can't see this.

Hmm I guess you missed where I said IMHO. I think the comics would be better which means that I would enjoy them more I have always hated robin and for me he hurts the comics I still love the comics but they would be better for me with out Robin.

I have always known that they can do Robin much better than he was in that idiots movies but that still does not mean it will be good. The idea of Robin is just dumb in its self to me.

 

[mcallima]

Shadow of the Bat was one of the monthly Batman titles. It ended awhile ago.

 

[StorminNorman]

Robin would not work in Nolan's vision that's not an opinion that's a fact. Nolan said it himself robin is still a baby at this point. I would like to see a young dick grayson in the final installment of the batman begins films but a teenage boy in a suit fighting criminals alongside batman? Hell no! he makes it campy and not dark and gritty this is an all out batman story and the focus will still remain on Batman, He is the main concept of the film. I would like to see a cameo of Dr.Victor Freeze before he becomes mr. freeze I believe that would work awesomely and I would like to see Batman foreshadowing the
future as to Bruce Wayne telling Alfred,

BRUCE: Alfred I need a computer with high tech information.

Alfred: With all the money in the world sir I am sure there is many computers that fits your budget.

That dialouge was stupid but you guys get the idea.....

BATMAN BEGINS/CONCEPT IS FEAR

THE DARK KNIGHT/CONCEPT IS DUALITY

SHADOW OF THE BAT/CONCEPT IS DESTINY

Pretty much I hope the concept of the trilogy would go like that because if it does then that would be pretty bad ass.

If you take that Nolan quote at full face value you are delusional, it was a joke. Just because the character may not show up in NOLAN's trilogy does not mean he wont show up later.

As I said earlier, having Robin in does not mean we will be getting a pre-teen fighting crime with Batman. Robin's role will of course have to change, he will have to be used more as a scout, after all - a small boy can get around the city much easier than the Prince of Gotham. (Ironically enough, this was used in the early Batman comics).

 

[thedarks0ldier]

Or they can do a spin off movie but name it something like, red feathers or something, and give no illusion, or even an idea to any of us that the main character is Dick Grayson, and advertise it as a Man on Fire esqu/ Desperado or something like that, and (similar to how Batman Begins focused on the origin) focus on him trying to live as an orphan, and finding a way to get revenge. This film doesnt even have to show why he is doing who he really is, or be from his perspective, but from the people he is trying to bring down, and he kicks ass through out this movie, and then towards the end reveal his name and what happend. It wouldnt be a big film, more along the lines of a November or Jan-March release, something low budget, but still spectacular and inspiring. That would be how I would do it. There could be certain characters from Batman (like Zsaz, or some lesser recognizable character) that appears as a cameo. Slade could train him, and it would be more along the lines of when Bruce was travelling around the world, and not so much him becoming "Robin", but merely a realy bad ass dick grayson movie.

 

[thedarks0ldier]

Robin would not work in Nolan's vision that's not an opinion that's a fact. Nolan said it himself robin is still a baby at this point. I would like to see a young dick grayson in the final installment of the batman begins films but a teenage boy in a suit fighting criminals alongside batman? Hell no! he makes it campy and not dark and gritty this is an all out batman story and the focus will still remain on Batman, He is the main concept of the film. I would like to see a cameo of Dr.Victor Freeze before he becomes mr. freeze I believe that would work awesomely and I would like to see Batman foreshadowing the
future as to Bruce Wayne telling Alfred,

BRUCE: Alfred I need a computer with high tech information.

Alfred: With all the money in the world sir I am sure there is many computers that fits your budget.

That dialouge was stupid but you guys get the idea.....

BATMAN BEGINS/CONCEPT IS FEAR

THE DARK KNIGHT/CONCEPT IS DUALITY

SHADOW OF THE BAT/CONCEPT IS DESTINY

Pretty much I hope the concept of the trilogy would go like that because if it does then that would be pretty bad ass.

Batman doesnt believe in destiny.

 

[Thespiralgoeson]

Or they can do a spin off movie but name it something like, red feathers or something, and give no illusion, or even an idea to any of us that the main character is Dick Grayson, and advertise it as a Man on Fire esqu/ Desperado or something like that, and (similar to how Batman Begins focused on the origin) focus on him trying to live as an orphan, and finding a way to get revenge. This film doesnt even have to show why he is doing who he really is, or be from his perspective, but from the people he is trying to bring down, and he kicks ass through out this movie, and then towards the end reveal his name and what happend. It wouldnt be a big film, more along the lines of a November or Jan-March release, something low budget, but still spectacular and inspiring. That would be how I would do it. There could be certain characters from Batman (like Zsaz, or some lesser recognizable character) that appears as a cameo. Slade could train him, and it would be more along the lines of when Bruce was travelling around the world, and not so much him becoming "Robin", but merely a realy bad ass dick grayson movie.

Interesting idea. I'd be shocked if it ever actually happened, but still a very interesting idea. I am glad though that you can see that there is a BIG difference between Dick Grayson and Robin.

 

[Stupify_me]

Or they can do a spin off movie but name it something like, red feathers or something, and give no illusion, or even an idea to any of us that the main character is Dick Grayson, and advertise it as a Man on Fire esqu/ Desperado or something like that, and (similar to how Batman Begins focused on the origin) focus on him trying to live as an orphan, and finding a way to get revenge. This film doesnt even have to show why he is doing who he really is, or be from his perspective, but from the people he is trying to bring down, and he kicks ass through out this movie, and then towards the end reveal his name and what happend. It wouldnt be a big film, more along the lines of a November or Jan-March release, something low budget, but still spectacular and inspiring. That would be how I would do it. There could be certain characters from Batman (like Zsaz, or some lesser recognizable character) that appears as a cameo. Slade could train him, and it would be more along the lines of when Bruce was travelling around the world, and not so much him becoming "Robin", but merely a realy bad ass dick grayson movie.

Hate to say it but I think I would rather watch the Begins franchise be destroyed by Robin than see that film.

 

[Stupify_me]

^Or they can minorly change his real origin and put him in one of the new Batman movies.

I don't understand people being so against his actual origin I think it works. I have a huge list of things that I think should be changed and his origin does not make that list I see no problem with it.

 

[Lex Luthor]

I have always known that they can do Robin much better than he was in that idiots movies but that still does not mean it will be good. The idea of Robin is just dumb in its self to me.

The thing is, Nolan can do as he wishes with these characters. He can reinterpret them in any way he sees fit. The Scarecrow is a perfect example of this, as he is not exactly what we have seen in the comics medium for years and years, but in Nolan's reinterpretation, The Scarecrow became something much cooler, IMHO. Robin shouldnt be considered an exception by any means. Does that mean we would have a kid with a yellow cape on fighting crime with Batman at night? Not necessarily. But I believe there are methods of possibly including the character without having to include elements in which Nolan may consider "camp".

 

[Stupify_me]

The thing is, Nolan can do as he wishes with these characters. He can reinterpret them in any way he sees fit. The Scarecrow is a perfect example of this, as he is not exactly what we have seen in the comics medium for years and years, but in Nolan's reinterpretation, The Scarecrow became something much cooler, IMHO. Robin shouldnt be considered an exception by any means. Does that mean we would have a kid with a yellow cape on fighting crime with Batman at night? Not necessarily. But I believe there are methods of possibly including the character without having to include elements in which Nolan may consider "camp".

putting some one in the movie going by the name of Robin will not work for me. It is that simple there are hundreds of things they can change to make it better but it will still be horrible for me. I would be ok with maybe there never being a robin but instead he takes in a kid who becomes a partner by the name of nightwing at the age of 16 at the youngest I would prefer older.

 

[mcallima]

I love Robin's origin. I just don't like a 13 year old physically taking on grown men without death. It's foolish. I'm warming to the scout idea though.

 

[Thespiralgoeson]

The thing is, Nolan can do as he wishes with these characters. He can reinterpret them in any way he sees fit. The Scarecrow is a perfect example of this, as he is not exactly what we have seen in the comics medium for years and years, but in Nolan's reinterpretation, The Scarecrow became something much cooler, IMHO. Robin shouldnt be considered an exception by any means. Does that mean we would have a kid with a yellow cape on fighting crime with Batman at night? Not necessarily. But I believe there are methods of possibly including the character without having to include elements in which Nolan may consider "camp".

Of course Robin could work. One must admit though, some characters are inherently more campy than others. I mean, sure, Mr. Freeze could work too, but a character like the Scarecrow does fit much more seemlessly into Nolan's universe, don't you think? Sure, we could have Robin. Hell, we could also have the Ventriloquist, Clayface or Killer Croc. But do we need them? Robin could work, but I honestly can't help but see him as more of a stretch than Scarecrow or even R'as.

 

[thedarks0ldier]

A Robin-esqu movie that could be used as reference is The Professional (Not Leon the Professional, although that is a better version.) In terms of an apprentice story, except Robin would be like 17.

 

[StorminNorman]

putting some one in the movie going by the name of Robin will not work for me. It is that simple there are hundreds of things they can change to make it better but it will still be horrible for me. I would be ok with maybe there never being a robin but instead he takes in a kid who becomes a partner by the name of nightwing at the age of 16 at the youngest I would prefer older.

I think a Nightwing would not come until Robin became 19,20,21 - when Dick has become a man in every way and is ready to leave his "father" behind him. However that is still no reason to bring Robin into the fold at an earlier age.

The ideal timescheme:

Dick Grayson adopted at age 10-12. Finds out about Batman shortly after. Eventually becomes Robin by age 12.

Age 12-15 Robin does only scouting work and infact has very little combat training.

Age 16-17 Robin keeps scouting work, starts training.

Age 18, Robin enters the true role of side kick.

Age 21, Robin becomes Nightwing.

 

[Lex Luthor]

Of course Robin could work. One must admit though, some characters are inherently more campy than others. I mean, sure, Mr. Freeze could work too, but a character like the Scarecrow does fit much more seemlessly into Nolan's universe, don't you think? Sure, we could have Robin. Hell, we could also have the Ventriloquist, Clayface or Killer Croc. But do we need them? Robin could work, but I honestly can't help but see him as more of a stretch than Scarecrow or even R'as.

The Scarecrow worked really great in Batman Begins for a number of reasons, but one significant reason I believe he worked so well is because one of the underlining themes in Batman Begins was "fear". And what better character to include with that kind of underlining?

Including Robin only becomes a stretch when we think of him as he has been presented in the comic book medium for so many years. If Robin can possibly be reinterpreted in which Nolan & company see as being more realistic, and a bit more in line with what has already been established in Nolan's Batman universe, I think it should definately be considered.

 

[Thespiralgoeson]

The Scarecrow worked really great in Batman Begins for a number of reasons, but one significant reason I believe he worked so well is because one of the underlining themes in Batman Begins was "fear". And what better character to include with that kind of underlining?

Including Robin only becomes a stretch when we think of him as he has been presented in the comic book medium for so many years. If Robin can possibly be reinterpreted in which Nolan & company see as being more realistic, and a bit more in line with what has already been established in Nolan's Batman universe, I think it should definately be considered.

Oh I agree with you. I have no doubt Nolan could pull it off. I just don't want it to happen. The Robin I want to see is basically impossible to show within the limited timeframe of a trilogy.