Rogue taking the cure - wrong message entirely

[kah]

DIDN'T ANYBODY CATCH ON WITH XAVIERS SPEECH ABOUT THE COMATOSE PATIENT?

You mean the bit on the ethics of usurping a braindead man's body? No . . . I MUST HAVE MISSED THAT

I still think Worthington's Curse (I refuse to call it a cure anymore) is inherently evil. Evil which could perhaps be used for good, but the genesis of the Curse is arrogance, condescension and fear. Evil, I tell you, E-V-I-L.

 

[Drago]

You mean the bit on the ethics of usurping a braindead man's body? No . . . I MUST HAVE MISSED THAT

I still think Worthington's Curse (I refuse to call it a cure anymore) is inherently evil. Evil which could perhaps be used for good, but the genesis of the Curse is arrogance, condescension and fear. Evil, I tell you, E-V-I-L.

Yea, I should probably drop the CAPS from that, huh...

my bad.

 

[kah]

no worries mate, just having a little fun at you expense

 

[Sun_Down]

I'm almost with you on this one. Mutation, in my mind, isn't an actual error, for pretty much all of us are actually, technically mutants. Some mutations are more affecting than others, and most of these more affecting mutations are "bad" (bad in that those born with them don't live long enough to have children). But, we homo sapiens would not be here without them.

Genetic diseases are a little different in my mind. A genetic disease isn't really a mutation. Maybe the first time the disease occured it was the result of a mutation, but then comes independent assortment and dominants/recessives and all that gooey stuff.

And, let's not forget that the "cure" isn't really a cure. It's a masking agent which mimics Leech's power. Even after taking the "cure", Rogue's basic genetic material, the stuff that makes a mutant, is still the same. Rogue is still a mutant, it's just her powers are in some kind of dormant state.

Rogue's affliction only affects her when she touches someone. People with cystic fibrosis or Huntington's are affected by the disease all the time regardless of what they do.

I think there is enough of a difference to not think of a true cure for cystic fibosis as the same kind of thing as Worthington's Curse.

You make some good points, and what it really comes down to is the fact that the whole idea behind the X-Men is rather absurd. The presence of one gene could not produce such affects in a human. It would be an assortment of many genes and there'd be no way for even a specific group of genes to cause such different affects in people. But I think my point is still a good one.

 

[theSILENCE]

I havent read through this thread. but am i the only one who thinks rogue didnt take the cure. i didnt see any needle touch her or see her not having her powers. sure i seen her touch bobby but it cut away so fast.

 

[Sun_Down]

I havent read through this thread. but am i the only one who thinks rogue didnt take the cure. i didnt see any needle touch her or see her not having her powers. sure i seen her touch bobby but it cut away so fast.

She took the cure.

 

[storyteller]

Alright back on topic. I think every who is against rogue taking the cure are simply looking at it from what cool powers can she have. She absorbs life force by simple touch. She can kill people within a minute/seconds. Thats a bad power to have because it revolves around who has the right.

Those who think rouge shouldnt have tooken the cure. Well then you believe rouge shouldnt have to take precautions against something so natural. She should have every right to steal life force.

Angel is cosmetic. His abilities dont harm others or himself. Magnetos powers can be controlled. Jean went crazy. Rouges are always on.

I say this. If i had cancer, that means i should not seek treatment. Its apart of my body to overdevelop cell growth. Why should i seek to get rid of it.

 

[kah]

But I think my point is still a good one.

Yep, me too .

 

[kah]

Alright back on topic. I think every who is against rogue taking the cure are simply looking at it from what cool powers can she have. She absorbs life force by simple touch. She can kill people within a minute/seconds. Thats a bad power to have because it revolves around who has the right.

Those who think rouge shouldnt have tooken the cure. Well then you believe rouge shouldnt have to take precautions against something so natural. She should have every right to steal life force.

Angel is cosmetic. His abilities dont harm others or himself. Magnetos powers can be controlled. Jean went crazy. Rouges are always on.

I say this. If i had cancer, that means i should not seek treatment. Its apart of my body to overdevelop cell growth. Why should i seek to get rid of it.

We just see it differently, that's all. Rogue has always taken precautions. Rogue's power can also be controlled. Cancer kills without the person afflicted doing anything.

We just see if differently, that's all.

 

[Drago]

Personally, I think this is the most interesting topic on the forum- just letting all you guys know.

I'm trying to bring up similar examples to coincide with our Cure discussion. Here's one:

Plastic Surgery
[Person A] A girl that wants breast implants- Good or Bad?
[Person B] A burn victim who would like surgery to cover scars- Good or
Bad?
I would say not right for Person A, but completely acceptable for Person B. Are scenarios like this really that different from the Cure issue with Rogue? Plus, in the end Rogue is dangerous, and she's sacrificing alot- not allowed to kiss, hold hands, and down the road can't have kids. If science can help her, why not?

Anyone read my deaf subculture example? Post 218

 

[spideyboy_1111]

We just see it differently, that's all. Rogue has always taken precautions. Rogue's power can also be controlled. Cancer kills without the person afflicted doing anything.

We just see if differently, that's all.

umm rogues powers can only be controlled if she simply doesnt touch someone.... hardly control imo

 

[kah]

Personally, I think this is the most interesting topic on the forum- just letting all you guys know.

I'm trying to bring up similar examples to coincide with our Cure discussion. Here's one:

Plastic Surgery
[Person A] A girl that wants breast implants- Good or Bad?
[Person B] A burn victim who would like surgery to cover scars- Good or
Bad?
I would say not right for Person A, but completely acceptable for Person B. Are scenarios like this really that different from the Cure issue with Rogue? Plus, in the end Rogue is dangerous, and she's sacrificing alot- not allowed to kiss, hold hands, and down the road can't have kids. If science can help her, why not?

Anyone read my deaf subculture example? Post 218

[A] - sad that our society leads someone to do this, but not bad - other than it can be dangerous.
- perfectly wonderful , since it also involves general healing.

Scenario B is quite different, IMO. It's the result of an accident, an external event. Scenario A is actually kind of close from a societal stigma perspective, but different in that small breasts don't actually cause any harm.

And, now that I've thought about it some, I don't have really have a problem with the Worthington Curse itself. My problem is with the motives behind the creation of the Curse. If the Curse had been developed because of an outcry within the mutant community, if the mutant community had asked for a cure, that would be a different kettle of fish.

But, as far as we know, they didn't. The curse was developed to neutralize mutants because humans fear them. Just finished watching X1 again, and thought about the Curse in terms of Nazi Germany. Let's say the Nazi's developed a "cure" for semitism, and you are given the choice of renouncing your Jewish heritage or being ushered into a gas chamber. Which would you choose?

 

[kah]

umm rogues powers can only be controlled if she simply doesnt touch someone.... hardly control imo

We'll have to disagree on that one . It is the essence of control in my book.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

We'll have to disagree on that one . It is the essence of control in my book.

ummm thats not controling her mutation, its surpressing it...

 

[kah]

ummm thats not controling her mutation, its surpressing it...

Then how is Magneto's mutation controlled?

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Then how is Magneto's mutation controlled?

ummm he can turn it on and off... lol rogue cant.. its not like if magneto was running around naked metal objects would fly into him and stick to him

 

[kah]

ummm he can turn it on and off... lol rogue cant.. its not like if magneto was running around naked metal objects would fly into him and stick to him

My dear Spideyboy, you are not speaking of controlling Magneto's mutation, you are speaking of controlling the effect of Magneto's mutation, of, well, surpressing it.

In Magneto's case, he chooses to use his power or not. That's control.

In Rogue's case, she can choose not to touch someone. That's contol.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

My dear Spideyboy, you are not speaking of controlling Magneto's mutation, you are speaking of controlling the effect of Magneto's mutation, of, well, surpressing it.

In Magneto's case, he chooses to use his power or not. That's control.

In Rogue's case, she can choose not to touch someone. That's contol.

yes, but magneto HAS control of them.. and CAN decide to use them or not, Rogue can't. She can't decide to use her power or not.. because its always on. Only thing she CAN control, is protecting others from it

 

[kah]

yes, but magneto HAS control of them.. and CAN decide to use them or not, Rogue can't. She can't decide to use her power or not.. because its always on. Only thing she CAN control, is protecting others from it

Exactly, she HAS control .

 

[choki]

we have seen the insecure Rogue in X1... when her mutation ability just appeared.
however, at the end of X1, we can see that she is mixing with the other students at the mansion and ahem developing a relationship with Bobby.

In X2, she used her powers (in a good way) to stop Pyro's rage and even told Bobby's parents that their son was gifted. And piloting X-Jet... All these actions tell us that she is growing acceptance of her powers... yes it is frustating of her to be devoid of any human contact but she no longer feel that she is cursed???

Yet in X3, the movie showed us... a Rogue from X1... insecure and is tempted to be cured so she can touch her boyfriend... and keep him by her side. Yes you can argue, Rogue took the cure not for Bobby but for herself... but the way the movie depicted it, with most of scenes in jealousy mode, it definitely do seem like she is taking the cure so she can touch Bobby!

I was hoping to see a confident Rogue in X3, able to use her powers to protect others and becomes a real X-men...

 

[kah]

we have seen the insecure Rogue in X1... when her mutation ability just appeared.
however, at the end of X1, we can see that she is mixing with the other students at the mansion and ahem developing a relationship with Bobby.

In X2, she used her powers (in a good way) to stop Pyro's rage and even told Bobby's parents that their son was gifted. And piloting X-Jet... All these actions tell us that she is growing acceptance of her powers... yes it is frustating of her to be devoid of any human contact but she no longer feel that she is cursed???

Yet in X3, the movie showed us... a Rogue from X1... insecure and is tempted to be cured so she can touch her boyfriend... and keep him by her side. Yes you can argue, Rogue took the cure not for Bobby but for herself... but the way the movie depicted it, with most of scenes in jealousy mode, it definitely do seem like she is taking the cure so she can touch Bobby!

I was hoping to see a confident Rogue in X3, able to use her powers to protect others and becomes a real X-men...

I agree 100%, and well said. Rogue's regression was VERY disappointing .

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Exactly, she HAS control .

she has forceful control... the same friggin "control" angel has of his wings... by covering them up, straping them away, and not using them... thats hardly control

 

[ultimatefan]

I don´t think it´s fair to comparing her condition to that of the other X-Men, or black, or gay, or whatever... In her case, the mutation was a serious problem, she couldn´t touch anybody, which is a fundamental affectionate, sexual, etc., human experience. I used to be obese, I was a victim of discrimination, I was picked up at school... But it wasn´t the same thing as being black or jewish, that condition really brought me problems beyond other people´s perceptions... my physicality was limited, I could develop heart diseases, diabetes, even some forms of cancer. I ultimately took a "cure" for it - I made a treatment, actually - but it wasn´t for the other people, it was for me.

 

[Harlekin]

Alright back on topic. I think every who is against rogue taking the cure are simply looking at it from what cool powers can she have. She absorbs life force by simple touch. She can kill people within a minute/seconds. Thats a bad power to have because it revolves around who has the right.

Those who think rouge shouldnt have tooken the cure. Well then you believe rouge shouldnt have to take precautions against something so natural. She should have every right to steal life force.

A) It's Rogue.
B) You have no idea of what I think.

Why I think Rogue shouldn't have taken the cure? Pure and simple story perspective. Her taking the cure undermines (to me, at least) the whole message the X-Men is trying to spread. Be who and what you are. Heck, Storm has like two speeches centred around that notion in the movie. Having Rogue, a member of the X-Men take the cure completely takes that away.

It means being a mutant is a disease.
It means that being normal is a good thing.

It's not cancer or down syndrom people, and mutancy has never been an allegory for those diseases in its X-Men tenure. The mutant prejudice was always a metaphor to discrimination, mostly based around skin colour and sexual preference.

Cancer is disease.
Being not-white or gay isn't.

Being a mutant isn't a disease. Rogue shouldn't have taken the cure.

 

[skruloos]

I don´t think it´s fair to comparing her condition to that of the other X-Men, or black, or gay, or whatever... In her case, the mutation was a serious problem, she couldn´t touch anybody, which is a fundamental affectionate, sexual, etc., human experience. I used to be obese, I was a victim of discrimination, I was picked up at school... But it wasn´t the same thing as being black or jewish, that condition really brought me problems beyond other people´s perceptions... my physicality was limited, I could develop heart diseases, diabetes, even some forms of cancer. I ultimately took a "cure" for it - I made a treatment, actually - but it wasn´t for the other people, it was for me.

Maybe if the film actually explored her internal struggle with this issue and gave us other instances other than just seeing her jealous of Bobby spending time with Kitty. I think that's the main issue with Rogue's treatment is that they brought up a huge subplot with her decision with the cure and they didn't really explore it. It's an ethical crisis and they should have devoted a few more scenes to really get us into Rogue's mindset.