Rogue taking the cure - wrong message entirely

Harlekin said:
A) It's Rogue.
B) You have no idea of what I think.

Why I think Rogue shouldn't have taken the cure? Pure and simple story perspective. Her taking the cure undermines (to me, at least) the whole message the X-Men is trying to spread. Be who and what you are. Heck, Storm has like two speeches centred around that notion in the movie. Having Rogue, a member of the X-Men take the cure completely takes that away.

It means being a mutant is a disease.
It means that being normal is a good thing.

It's not cancer or down syndrom people, and mutancy has never been an allegory for those diseases in its X-Men tenure. The mutant prejudice was always a metaphor to discrimination, mostly based around skin colour and sexual preference.

Cancer is disease.
Being not-white or gay isn't.

Being a mutant isn't a disease. Rogue shouldn't have taken the cure.
For other mutants, it wasn´t a disease. For Rogue, it was. When a physical condition prevents you from performing your human activities normally, it´s a disease, or handicap. For an example, Xavier wouldn´t want to be discriminated for being handicap, but do ya think he wouldn´t take a cure for that? In a heartbeat.
 
skruloos said:
Maybe if the film actually explored her internal struggle with this issue and gave us other instances other than just seeing her jealous of Bobby spending time with Kitty. I think that's the main issue with Rogue's treatment is that they brought up a huge subplot with her decision with the cure and they didn't really explore it. It's an ethical crisis and they should have devoted a few more scenes to really get us into Rogue's mindset.
With that, I agree. Even as she denied it, it felt like it was because of Bobby.
 
ultimatefan said:
For other mutants, it wasn´t a disease. For Rogue, it was. When a physical condition prevents you from performing your human activities normally, it´s a disease, or handicap. For an example, Xavier wouldn´t want to be discriminated for being handicap, but do ya think he wouldn´t take a cure for that? In a heartbeat.
Like I said, I'm working purely from a storytelling perspective. I could see Rogue taking the cure (even though comic Rogue never did), but they shouldn't have done it, because I felt it completely missed the message of the X-Men by doing so.
 
what was the other ending that they had ? anyone know
 
Harlekin said:
Like I said, I'm working purely from a storytelling perspective. I could see Rogue taking the cure (even though comic Rogue never did), but they shouldn't have done it, because I felt it completely missed the message of the X-Men by doing so.
Part of good storytelling is figuring out what feels like your character would do, regardless of a general message. Storm would never take the cure, neither would Xavier or Iceman. She´s the exception that confirms the rule.
 
I didn't read the full 11 pages so I don't know if this was already suggested, but I'd just like to share my fiancee's idea regarding Rogue and Iceman:
They should have just had that kid [Leech] sit in the room with them whenever they wanted to have sex . . . and told him not to look.
 
i didnt care for the lame message... im just worried about gambit showing up at all in xmen movies... now theres no "no touching" dilemma... unless x4 is gonna be about everyone getting their powers back... thats still pretty ******ed, but whatever
 
ultimatefan said:
Part of good storytelling is figuring out what feels like your character would do, regardless of a general message. Storm would never take the cure, neither would Xavier or Iceman. She´s the exception that confirms the rule.

I think a few of us feel that this is not what post X2 MovieRogue would have done. And it seems a few us think about every character within the context of what we think the X-Men as a whole stand for, and within that context, Rogue making the decision she did feels really, really wrong.

These two coupled with essentially no drama, no exploration from Rogue's point of view dealing with the consquences of her decision add up to, IMO, very bad storytelling.
 
kah said:
I think a few of us feel that this is not what post X2 MovieRogue would have done. And it seems a few us think about every character within the context of what we think the X-Men as a whole stand for, and within that context, Rogue making the decision she did feels really, really wrong.

These two coupled with essentially no drama, no exploration from Rogue's point of view dealing with the consquences of her decision add up to, IMO, very bad storytelling.
I´ll agree that her character lacked development. I just don´t think taking the cure, in itself, is wrong. Try to put yourself in her place. If I spent years not being able to touch anybody, to feel a hug, a kiss, to have sex... It would drive me nuts. I´d do almost anything to get rid of it.
 
They should have just had that kid [Leech] sit in the room with them whenever they wanted to have sex . . . and told him not to look.

ha! that has 2 be the funniest comment i have read on these boards for awhile. i fell outta my chair. lol. told leech 2 play his xbox 360 in the room. peace
 
kah said:
And, now that I've thought about it some, I don't have really have a problem with the Worthington Curse itself. My problem is with the motives behind the creation of the Curse. If the Curse had been developed because of an outcry within the mutant community, if the mutant community had asked for a cure, that would be a different kettle of fish.

But, as far as we know, they didn't. The curse was developed to neutralize mutants because humans fear them. Just finished watching X1 again, and thought about the Curse in terms of Nazi Germany. Let's say the Nazi's developed a "cure" for semitism, and you are given the choice of renouncing your Jewish heritage or being ushered into a gas chamber. Which would you choose?

I will agree with you on the creation of the Cure- even though I think Rogue taking it wasn't the wrong message (and you think it is), I will definitely agree that it was created for the wrong reasons- would Worthington II have created it if his son wasn't a mutant? Not a chance.

Maybe as he went along he realized others could legitimately benefit, but it started with his looking at his son as a dissapointment. Did he have good intentions? yea, he meant well, but he was a pretty ignorant guy. His creation of the cure was NOT for the right reasons, at all. Atleast he didn't force it down mutants throats though- he wanted it to be voluntary and give them a choice (his issues with Angel taking it are a little different, a little more complicated).
 
I'll say this much, if our discussion is in any way typical of other discussions about whether Rogue's decision was right or wrong, her decision doesn't seem to have sent the wrong message.

Lots of different opinions, pretty much everyone on the same page about it being Rogue's decision to make, and (for the most part :) ) exemplary rational thinking
 
Agreeing with you again, Kah

I'm pretty impressed that people on this board are debating this stuff so rationally and so calmly- the Cure and Rogue's taking it was a pretty controversial issue

Kudos
 
ultimatefan said:
I don´t think it´s fair to comparing her condition to that of the other X-Men, or black, or gay, or whatever... In her case, the mutation was a serious problem, she couldn´t touch anybody, which is a fundamental affectionate, sexual, etc., human experience. I used to be obese, I was a victim of discrimination, I was picked up at school... But it wasn´t the same thing as being black or jewish, that condition really brought me problems beyond other people´s perceptions... my physicality was limited, I could develop heart diseases, diabetes, even some forms of cancer. I ultimately took a "cure" for it - I made a treatment, actually - but it wasn´t for the other people, it was for me.

Wow... that's a very, very good metaphor right there. It is too bad they didn't make that a hell of a lot more clear, though.

On a non-metaphorical level, I'm thinking maybe in the next movie she'll get control of her powers--maybe the cure will not actually cure her, but change her so that she has better control. Like if her powers slowly come back, maybe she'll learn in the process how to keep them from affecting those she doesn't want to harm. So, in a sense, maybe she'll find a healthy weight for her rather than going from obesity to anorexia and back.

If I were Rogue, I'd have taken the cure hands down. I mean, sheesh... not even being able to kiss someone, let alone have sex... screw this. It's cure time.

Aiding the cure advocates--the fact that Pyro says Rogue wants the cure because she's "pathetic". Which is so judgmental and wrong and such complete bull that I think it makes a point in and of itself--that, yeah, we can all sit back and be high and mighty, but it's really easy for somebody like Pyro to say that, for whom his power is never going to cause anyone involuntary harm from him just touching them out of love or friendship.

It's easy to compare mutation to skin color or sexual orientation, but my lord, it is NOT THE SAME. Not even vaguely. Mutation is a complex metaphor for ALL differences, both positive and negative, it's not just a metaphor for being gay or black or ANY one thing. Being unique is great, but there is a CLEAR difference between having beautiful wings to fly with and being cursed to lack the one thing you long for so deeply (human touch.) Wings are strange to those who don't understand, but still clearly as great as having an unusual skin tone or hair tone or such like. Being unable to touch anyone is like being unable to walk; it's a disability, not just a difference. Rogue being cured is like a crippled person having surgery so they can walk again.

Maybe being unable to walk would make someone unique--and there's certainly not a damned thing wrong with it, there's no reason to treat someone as a lesser class citizen for it, and you can live a full life even with such a difficult situation--but it would be horrendously hypocritical and downright ludicrous to say to a formerly crippled person, "you know, you should be ashamed of yourself for having this surgery that would let you walk again. You should've stayed in your wheelchair where you belonged because I say it's who you are." Nonsense. So easy for a person on the OUTSIDE to say.

All kidding about waiting for Leech to grow up aside, anyone who says they wouldn't take the cure if they were Rogue? You'd have a long and lonely life ahead of you with no gain to show for it. Rogue didn't take the cure because she thought being a mutant was dirty, or she wouldn't have come back to see Bobby. She took it because for her, specifically for her, it was all drawback and no wonder or joy. She appreciated the unique qualities of her friends, but for her case specifically, mutation was not like it was for them. She was... different from them.

I like Rogue taking the cure particularly in that it shows what the X-Men movies have been trying to teach all along--respect for individuality! Humans not respecting that mutants are different is the same kind of bigotry as Pyro not respecting that Rogue's mutation is different from his. In fact, now that I think about it, that's an amazing point. I wish they'd done more with the concept. It's really what the theme and the heart of X-Men is all about; respecting each other's differences, and learning to appreciate them rather than shunning those who aren't in the same category as we are.
 
I know it's all speculation, but I'm surprised no one has mentioned the possiblity of Bobby rejecting a non-mutant Rogue... ya know, 'pullin a Magneto'. Clearly he was able to make a bond with Kitty, but he wasn't hitting on her directly. But now that Rogue is no longer a mutant (or suffer from her mutation) would this change how he views her, even in comparison to Kitty. Would she stay at Xavier's? And if not, how could she expect her relationship to survive? Even if she did take the cure for herself, how did she think it would NOT affect her boyfriend? Don't you think Bobby would have a legitimate gripe of 'his' lady making such a drastic change without even remotely giving him a chance to be a part of it?
 
Wynne said:
On a non-metaphorical level, I'm thinking maybe in the next movie she'll get control of her powers--maybe the cure will not actually cure her, but change her so that she has better control. Like if her powers slowly come back, maybe she'll learn in the process how to keep them from affecting those she doesn't want to harm. So, in a sense, maybe she'll find a healthy weight for her rather than going from obesity to anorexia and back.

If I were Rogue, I'd have taken the cure hands down. I mean, sheesh... not even being able to kiss someone, let alone have sex... screw this. It's cure time.

A little break for some of you from debating the issues of the Cure: for the people that are complaining about Rogue no longer being a mutant (who hoped to see more of her in the future), keep in mind there is still Magneto's machine that turns humans to mutants. Granted it killed normal humans, but those who were able to handle mutation before should have no problem handling it again.

And I agree with Wynne, I don't think anybody in Rogues situation would turn down the cure.
 
Drago said:
And I agree with Wynne, I don't think anybody in Rogues situation would turn down the cure.

I might have. I think everyone also forgets that Rogue is only a teen in the movie and has not had her powers all that long - nor have we seen any attempt or serious discussion as to Rogue's real odds on controling or better controling her powers over time - she is a teen being that all three movies are supposedly set within a year timeframe. X1 gains her power and month or so road trip and then a few days with the X-Men. X2 six months or so later and then X3 right after that. It's not bee a year Rogue's had her powers to control them or to say she's been years without touch. Frankly movie Rogue had "better" control in a shorter time than comic Rogue did. Without better information, I don't know that I would have rushed out to get a cure that I could get next week or next year when there really was no hope because frankly she didn't have her powers long enough for me to feel that like we have with comic Rogue. That is also why this movie all the more makes it look like she did it for Bobby and not for herself. It was like she had to have it today without any real exploration of any options. I would have been far more impressed if they had an adult with a similar siutuation who HAD had his/her power for years with no hope in sight make such a decission with more thought about it than this simplistic version we got with no thought put into it at all. This just left me underwhelmed whether I would agree with her or not because I did not know enough to care.

I also agree with the totally blown over issue of whether she'd even still fit in at the Mansion not being a mutant anymore.
 
I also expected for Rogue to come back at the Institute saying that she decided not to take the cure, I don't understand why the writers decided to make Rogue human again!
 
Rogue just wanted to be human again....completing her arc right? Wants to be cured in X1, accepting her powers in X2, and is cured in X3.
 
Yeah but still...think about it, now that she has taken the cure she is not an X-men anymore, just an ordinary girl.
 
crappymovie said:
Rogue just wanted to be human again....completing her arc right? Wants to be cured in X1, accepting her powers in X2, and is cured in X3.
I agree. I think a lot of folk forget the X1 stuff, and choose to focus on the X2 stuff, particulaly the scenes in the Drake household.
 
kainedamo said:
Rogue taking the cure sends a terrible message to children. She should have appeared at the end and explained why she DIDN'T take the cure.

The cure is like asking yourself "if I were black, and there was a "cure" for it, would I take it"? And the answer is "sure, sometimes being black is hard, but I am proud of who I am and I shouldn't have to change".

Rattner and whoever the hell wrote the script didn't understand the X-Men's message of understanding and tolerance.


If only there was a cure for whining.....
 
What if someone is born with no eyesight? Is it wrong for them to accept a treatment that would allow them to see? Why does everything about 'mutant powers' in the X-men films have to be equated to race? Some mutant powers COULD be equated to a defect that would be morally acceptable to be 'cured'.
 
The fact is, Rogue is supposed to be an X-woman. A hero... helping those who can't help themselves. use her powers for good and all that jazz. In the end, some people see her as being selfish. She chose to help herself instead of helping other people. She chose the normal life over that of a hero.

I'm not one of those people, but Rogue led a different life. In a way she was luckier then Warren because at least she was surrounded by people that accepted her as she was.
 
f4faith said:
I might have. I think everyone also forgets that Rogue is only a teen in the movie and has not had her powers all that long - nor have we seen any attempt or serious discussion as to Rogue's real odds on controling or better controling her powers over time - she is a teen being that all three movies are supposedly set within a year timeframe. X1 gains her power and month or so road trip and then a few days with the X-Men. X2 six months or so later and then X3 right after that. It's not bee a year Rogue's had her powers to control them or to say she's been years without touch. Frankly movie Rogue had "better" control in a shorter time than comic Rogue did. Without better information, I don't know that I would have rushed out to get a cure that I could get next week or next year when there really was no hope because frankly she didn't have her powers long enough for me to feel that like we have with comic Rogue. That is also why this movie all the more makes it look like she did it for Bobby and not for herself. It was like she had to have it today without any real exploration of any options. I would have been far more impressed if they had an adult with a similar siutuation who HAD had his/her power for years with no hope in sight make such a decission with more thought about it than this simplistic version we got with no thought put into it at all. This just left me underwhelmed whether I would agree with her or not because I did not know enough to care.

I also agree with the totally blown over issue of whether she'd even still fit in at the Mansion not being a mutant anymore.

I'd say between 6 months and a year would be a loooooong time to go without touching anyone.
 

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