San Francisco At It Again

[GunBlade]

Ghey city.

Edit* Rly ghey city.

 

[Antonello Blueberry]

It's just that it seems like every decade we work more and more and we get less and less under the idea of capitalism and free enterprise, yet the products we consume get more expensive in some cases ridiculously cheap in others.

The real problem is how much the big managers and industrialist make in proportion to the salary of the simple worker.
The proportion grew uncontrolled in the last years.
[SIZE=-1]In 1960 CEOs received 40 times the average worker's salary. In 1992 they received 157 times. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]In 2005, CEOS, earned 262 times more than workers.
It's time the simple workers start rebelling against this trend.
[/SIZE]

 

[heypapajinx]

this is crazy.
i can't believe so many people out there are opposed to this.
these regulations are set up so that the big bad billion dollar corporations like McDonalds and WalMart can't just FIRE their employees for being sick.
it's total bull**** the way companies are run and i say it's about ****ing time that we get some leeway when we're sick.
i have a coworker that has kids, and when her kids get sick, she asks if she can take off to take them to the doctor and my supervisor actually said "hey, i know you have kids, but that's not my problem".
but when one of the other supervisors that has been working here for 1 week grandmother was ill, she took over a week and a half off with pay!?
wtf?!
that's just not right.

 

[hippie_hunter]

this is crazy.
i can't believe so many people out there are opposed to this.
these regulations are set up so that the big bad billion dollar corporations like McDonalds and WalMart can't just FIRE their employees for being sick.
it's total bull**** the way companies are run and i say it's about ****ing time that we get some leeway when we're sick.
i have a coworker that has kids, and when her kids get sick, she asks if she can take off to take them to the doctor and my supervisor actually said "hey, i know you have kids, but that's not my problem".
but when one of the other supervisors that has been working here for 1 week grandmother was ill, she took over a week and a half off with pay!?
wtf?!
that's just not right.

First of all, we're not talking about McDonalds and Wal-Mart. They can afford this and move on.

We're talking about the small business that the economy still depends on that cannot afford this.

 

[Matt]

The real problem is how much the big managers and industrialist make in proportion to the salary of the simple worker.
The proportion grew uncontrolled in the last years.
[SIZE=-1]In 1960 CEOs received 40 times the average worker's salary. In 1992 they received 157 times. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]In 2005, CEOS, earned 262 times more than workers.
It's time the simple workers start rebelling against this trend.
[/SIZE]

What you are advocating is communism. We do not live in a profit-sharing society. We are living in a capitalist one. Whats next? Wal-Mart greeters are guarunteed stock options under the law?

 

[Matt]

this is crazy.
i can't believe so many people out there are opposed to this.
these regulations are set up so that the big bad billion dollar corporations like McDonalds and WalMart can't just FIRE their employees for being sick.
it's total bull**** the way companies are run and i say it's about ****ing time that we get some leeway when we're sick.
i have a coworker that has kids, and when her kids get sick, she asks if she can take off to take them to the doctor and my supervisor actually said "hey, i know you have kids, but that's not my problem".
but when one of the other supervisors that has been working here for 1 week grandmother was ill, she took over a week and a half off with pay!?
wtf?!
that's just not right.

Most big companies do have sick days. Hell, I don't even oppose required sick days, but required PAID sick days is ridiculous.

 

[Kyalesyin]

Paid sick days are the norm over here. As long as you've been to a doctor and got written confirmation that you're sick, you get paid for the days off. Nothing wrong with that. It doesn't harm our economy. It stops ill people dragging themselves into work and making everyone else ill.

 

[sinewave]

if i remember correctly, san francisco has the highest cost of living in america, so while the $9.15 per hour minimum wage may seem outrageous, it might be proportionate to $7.25 in middle america. as for paid sick days, my wife works part-time as a waitress in a restaurant and gets no benefits, vacation or anything, and when she's unable to work due to sickness, like when she had bronchitis a couple of months ago couldn't work for several days, she struggles to make ends meet. now, i'm sure some people will abuse this, but it is good for the honest, hard working people who bust their asses at work and would like a little compensation for it. if a business owner can't run a successful business without exploiting their workers then maybe they shouldn't own a business.

 

[Erzengel]

I thought this was about something else, I mean how many times can you make a city gay?

 

[Darthphere]

if i remember correctly, san francisco has the highest cost of living in america, so while the $9.15 per hour minimum wage may seem outrageous, it might be proportionate to $7.25 in middle america. as for paid sick days, my wife works part-time as a waitress in a restaurant and gets no benefits, vacation or anything, and when she's unable to work due to sickness, like when she had bronchitis a couple of months ago couldn't work for several days, she struggles to make ends meet. now, i'm sure some people will abuse this, but it is good for the honest, hard working people who bust their asses at work and would like a little compensation for it. if a business owner can't run a successful business without exploiting their workers then maybe they shouldn't own a business.

I see it this way. I dont get the argument about the mom and pop stores losing money. Because if those people showed up to work anyway, they would get paid that amount anyway. Either way, the mom and pop store is going to pay someone.

 

[Matt]

I see it this way. I dont get the argument about the mom and pop stores losing money. Because if those people showed up to work anyway, they would get paid that amount anyway. Either way, the mom and pop store is going to pay someone.

Because if those people don't show up to work, we have to call in another employee and pay them. With this law we have to pay both their replacement and the person calling in sick.

 

[Darthphere]

Because if those people don't show up to work, we have to call in another employee and pay them. With this law we have to pay both their replacement and the person calling in sick.

Then dont call in a replacement.

 

[Matt]

Then dont call in a replacement.

And the alternative is?

 

[Antonello Blueberry]

Paid sick days are the norm over here. As long as you've been to a doctor and got written confirmation that you're sick, you get paid for the days off. Nothing wrong with that. It doesn't harm our economy. It stops ill people dragging themselves into work and making everyone else ill.

It's the same here in Italy, too. Sure, it works that way if you have a regular and steady work contract, something that's becoming a rarity these days.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

Because if those people don't show up to work, we have to call in another employee and pay them. With this law we have to pay both their replacement and the person calling in sick.

"mom and pop" stores rarely if at all call replacements

 

[Matt]

I see it this way. I dont get the argument about the mom and pop stores losing money. Because if those people showed up to work anyway, they would get paid that amount anyway. Either way, the mom and pop store is going to pay someone.

Besides, employers do not simply owe employees money. They are paid for a service. If the service is not provided why should they be paid?

 

[Matt]

"mom and pop" stores rarely if at all call replacements

Oh? I own my own business. I have employees. If someone calls off, I call someone else in. We're not just talking about little family owned corner markets here. Many single propreitor businesses do have employees.

 

[sinewave]

Because if those people don't show up to work, we have to call in another employee and pay them. With this law we have to pay both their replacement and the person calling in sick.

would you rather have the sick person come in and risk getting the rest of your staff and customers sick?

 

[Mr Sparkle]

Oh? I own my own business. I have employees. If someone calls off, I call someone else in. We're not just talking about little family owned corner markets here. Many single propreitor businesses do have employees.

ugh, groan, I ran a "mom and pop" store (whose owner's happened to be MY mom and pop) for years, and when people got sick we just had to work harder.
especially if you have "employees" ( in the plural) you're highly unlikely to engage in that practice.
besides, I don't get it.
if the guy gets sick, screw him, let him work harder to make up, but the business must continue like the employee was expendable?
kind of cuts the legs off the whole "mom and pop" concept.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

would you rather have the sick person come in and risk getting the rest of your staff and customers sick?

My boss decided to come in sick a week ago, and now all the staff at my office is either sick or getting sick, I spent Sunday in fever dreams because of it.
but hey, it's not like it could've been avoided or anything and it's my fault for having lungs and mucus and stuff.

 

[Matt]

ugh, groan, I ran a "mom and pop" store (whose owner's happened to be MY mom and pop) for years, and when people got sick we just had to work harder.
especially if you have "employees" ( in the plural) you're highly unlikely to engage in that practice.
besides, I don't get it.
if the guy gets sick, screw him, let him work harder to make up, but the business must continue like the employee was expendable?
kind of cuts the legs off the whole "mom and pop" concept.

You know, not every small business is a mom and pop operation. When people get sick we are short staffed. That means one waitress will be operating about 20 tables. If a bartender is sick, I have to call in the other one as I only have 2 bartenders.

Again, why should I pay for a service I do not get? If I go into a restraunt, sit at a table and get no food or drink should I pay for it? Employers do not owe employees anything. It is simply an exchange of service for money. If I do not obtain the service, I should not pay for the service.

 

[Matt]

would you rather have the sick person come in and risk getting the rest of your staff and customers sick?

Not at all, by all means call off. I don't mind when an employee calls off if they are sick. But why the hell should I have to pay money out of my pocket for a service I am not recieving?

 

[Mr Sparkle]

Employers do not owe employees anything.

nobody "owes" anybody anything. this is about sustainable living when people have Illness muck up their life, this isn't like a paid vacation dude.
stop being so ****ing clinical.

 

[Matt]

nobody "owes" anybody anything. this is about sustainable living when people have Illness muck up their life, this isn't like a paid vacation dude.
stop being so ****ing clinical.

Stop being so ****ing naive then . If you think for a second most people won't take advantage of their paid days off and then call off anyway you are crazy.

Second, you don't seem to grasp...just like it is money out of their pocket if they call off, it is also money out of my pocket for a service I did not get.

 

[Antonello Blueberry]

Stop being so ****ing naive then . If you think for a second most people won't take advantage of their paid days off and then call off anyway you are crazy.

It works in the UK, France and Italy. Ok, someone take advantage of it, but not the majority of the people.