ShadowBoxing said:
Why is revenge wrong. You have yet to explain why revenge is wrong. Why...answer it. How would you show revenge is wrong.
Revenge is wrong societally because it sets up one person or a mob of people fueled by malice making judgement over another. In our "civilized" society we have a jury system so that many can come together and reason OBJECTIVELY and FAIRLY the level of guilt or innocence of the accused, based on the law.
Revenge is wrong morally because (If you believe in God) we are all sinners and have been forgiven by God for our sins. Only God can make the final judgement and take someone's life.
If Marko is guilty of Ben's death, it's wrong for Peter to want to kill him because there may have been extenuating circumstances. It could have been an accident. Marko could've been not in his right mind. Whatever. It's only up to Peter to bring him in, so Marko's guilt or innoncence can be weighed fairly, not tainted by Peter's anger over Ben's death.
I don't have to shoot anyone with a gun...therefore a gun is not inherently lethal. Nor do I have to use it in a lethal manner. Shooting someone in the leg is not lethal.
First off, shooting someone in the leg can indeed be fatal. They can bleed to death. You're basing your ideas off of movies that don't show the realistic damage a gun can cause. Second, you're the one who brought up the Dirty Harry analogy. The people that Harry kills aren't just holding guns and might not shoot someone. They are killers, prepared to use their weapons with deadly force. Marko's powers (Like the human body) can be used lethally, but also merely to cause only non-lethal injury. If Marko were about to kill Spider-Man or an innocent bystander, then yes, Spidey should use lethal force to stop him. Otherwise, he should try to only subdue him.
Stop patronizing people. Of course I know Spider-Man stopped short of killing Osbourne, I have the freaking issue. original print. The point of that story was that Peter allowed for the death of Gwen Stacy by not protecting those around him, and by allowing Green Goblin to learn the truth. You need to show how Peter comes to this epiphany.
Peter "allowed" the Green Goblin to learn his identity? When did that happen? Peter didn't allow it. He didn't even know what what happening.
And Peter's "epiphany" came when he nearly became a MURDERER. Throughout the issue, his only intent was to KILL OSBORN. To make hiim pay for Gwen's death. Then, when he was close to completing that mission, his "epiphany" came when he realized that MURDER IS WRONG. It was wrong when the Goblin did it, and it would have been wrong for Peter to do it.
And just so we're clear- Murder is taking a life not in
self-defense- But out of malice -
wanting the person dead.
In those comics heroes were not aloud to kill because it was subject to a comic code. Therefore out of necessity Peter does not kill. However that story, like many before it, lacks explanation for why Peter comes to this conclusion. Something movies need to establish.
Peter doesn't MURDER because it's against his principles. If he can stop the villains without killing them, then he does.
Maybe you were raised in a family where all your morals are decided for you, but in the real world that does not happen.
I'm telling you right now- you'd better leave the personal **** at the door. You don't ****ing comment on my family life you internet twerp.
Ummmm....no. All those stories ended with yet another tragedy teaching him the error of his ways.
Yeah? So list those endings- tell me what those tragedies were.
No he was just an entertainer. All his bouts of "heroics" were staged television appearances.
This is pointless. You need to stop just looking at the pictures in these comics. Peter sacrifices himself and goes underground. That's pretty heroic, and Ben is still alive at the end of HOM.
Just out of thin air. People don't go "hey common good, of course!"
Uh.. ACTUALLY THEY DID.
Reed: Listen to me all of you! That means you too, Ben! together we have more power than any humans have ever possessed!
Ben: You don't have to make a speech, Big shot! We understand! We've gotta USE that power to help mankind, right?
Reed: Right, Ben, right!
Fantastic Four vol. 1 #1
Loki got out because he dropped a feather into the eye of a passerby.
Wow- one for you!
It's since been retconned that Loki engineered Thor's return.
Retcons don't mean much. And even so, this still isn't some great tragedy. It's a threat that Thor had to deal with.
And I'm not going over the other superhero stuff. Those weren't tragedies that made them heroes. And the Ironman thing is a retcon also originally the scienctist sacrificed himself so that the armor could charge up.
Okay, so if he kills him, and he's right...we feel sympathy. And thus upholding that in Peter's case revenge was justified.
No he's NOT right. We feel sympathy for Peter's pain. His loss. We understand WHY he'd want to kill Marko. We'd also feel that he was wrong for what he did, just as Sandman is wrong for killing Ben, even though it was to help save his daughter.
No it's not. He is not a police officer. It is not his job.
Are you just trying to find ways to bicker? You yourself posted above Peter's reasons for going after criminals (That would be the comic page in case you get confused).
But you're even wrong on a techical level because Citizens are lawfully encouraged to assist in the arrest of those engaged in criminal acts.
How does he know it's the truth. The only way to know is if Marko was convicted, which he has not been. He has not been brought to trail. Not been alloud to argue his innocence. In this system YOU ARE INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN OTHERWISE. So you're saying, in effect, because the cops say "this is who we believe killed your uncle" it's true. So if the cops say you run a string of prostitutes they should be able to throw you in jail...because that is true. The cop said it, it must be true.
EXACTLY. It's called BEING ACCUSED. That's how a person is arrested so they can go to TRIAL ansd be CONVICTED. and Peter should only be apart of his being brought to trial. NOT TRYING TO KILL HIM.
Is it the suit, or revenge. Because from where your standing it's the suit, not the revenge. If he is obsessed with revenge, and his life has become that then something has to shake him out of it. By you're logic the suit is evil, so if it makes him want to kill his Uncle's killer the only thing that could stop it is either accomplising that goal; or finding out he is in the wrong.
Oh my God. It's the suit- feeding on Peter's anger, which PUSHES HIM to go farther than he would normally go. That's why we see Peter tearing the suit from his body in the trailer. If not for the suit, Peter would realize much sooner that he was wrong.
In order to find out your in the wrong, you have to make a mistake. Peter made a mistake by seeking fame, it bites him in the ass. I DON'T KNOW A FLAME IS HOT UNTIL I TOUCH IT.
Okay. In Spidey 1, they have Ben tell Peter in the car about great power.. In the comics, it's explained that this was a value that Ben instilled in Peter as he grew up. He FORGOT ABOUT IT when he became drunk with his power. That's why it immediately makes sense to Peter upon Ben's death. If Peter didn't already have this as a foundation in his character, he'd be like Marko, Ock and others simply using his power to gain his own ends.
If I am obsessed with revenge then only revenge with quench that thirst.
Unless- LIKE PETER you come to your senses and realize that it's wrong. (like that's going to happen)
Punisher doesn't stop, why? Because he always kills the right person. There is no need for him to stop, because that is how he feels.
Punisher is a different animal altogether. First he was trained to kill and had killed in the past in the name of "right". Secondly, Punisher was developed in a different time. Up until Gwen's death, Spidey's villains weren't merciless killers. They threatened to kill and did harsh things but almost never committed a malicious killing. After Punisher came about (And really not until the 80's- Earlier Punisher often used non-lethal bullets) Punisher regularly faces merciless killers. Hitmen and such who have no remorse and don't think twice about killing.
I apologize for my drunken calling you a moron, but you started this no one else.
Everyone else here is wrong, only you are right. That's being a jerk. Leave this board and calm the f*** down. I am so glad where ever you live you are the center of the Universe. But starting off every post with "wrong" "rolleyes" and "I am so smart" only speaks to you as a person.
What the f*** do you know about the common good if you cannot even act like a decent human being.
The only person I've exchanged insults with is YOU. And only after you started them. With everyone else it's merely been a debate of ideas. And I'm officially done with you. Go **** yourself.
