Sandy Lying and everyone being so naive...

[Mr. Socko]

"Here's how it really went Peter...blah blah blah...I didn't mean to kill your uncle."

And Peter believes everything he says. How naive. How does he know that Sandman wasn't lying so he would let him go? Wait a second...who would you believe? The cops that say Flint Marko, a man with a bad track record, aggressively shot down your uncle in an attempt to steal his car? Or Flint Marko who says he really didn't want to kill him, and he's sorry...bo hoo.

And Harry does the same thing. Bernie tells Harry that the blade from his glider killed him, and all of a sudden he's helping Peter. If Harry was insane as he was suppose to be, and was hellbent of avenging his father, wouldn't he have thought "then Spider-Man stabed him with his own glider!"

...

 

[dark_b]

"Here's how it really went Peter...blah blah blah...I didn't mean to kill your uncle."

And Peter believes everything he says. How naive. How does he know that Sandman wasn't lying so he would let him go? Wait a second...who would you believe? The cops that say Flint Marko, a man with a bad track record, aggressively shot down your uncle in an attempt to steal his car? Or Flint Marko who says he really didn't want to kill him, and he's sorry...bo hoo.

And Harry does the same thing. Bernie tells Harry that the blade from his glider killed him, and all of a sudden he's helping Peter. If Harry was insane as he was suppose to be, and was hellbent of avenging his father, wouldn't he have thought "then Spider-Man stabed him with his own glider!"

...

i think people tha tgo in the theater will eat everything up. and sony knows this. so i think they did this because they knew tha tpeople will nto have a problem with.

spiderman is breaking records.

and yes i agree with you.

 

[DyeLorean]

I agree. The only (not so realistic) explanation that comes to my mind is that Peter was in a extremely emotional moment.

D!

 

[Joker]

I think that Harry deep down already knew Peter didnt kill his father, just as he knew in the comics, but that sense of devotion he had for his father made him NEED to tell himself that it was Peter who did it, and his father was totally innocent, etc. Bernard telling him that was just the last thing he needed to be pushed back over to the right side of sanity, just as it was MJ talking to him in the comics that pushed him back.

 

[dark_b]

i think the speech from MJ in thetrailers was for harry.

 

[Comicfan]

"Here's how it really went Peter...blah blah blah...I didn't mean to kill your uncle."

And Peter believes everything he says. How naive. How does he know that Sandman wasn't lying so he would let him go? Wait a second...who would you believe? The cops that say Flint Marko, a man with a bad track record, aggressively shot down your uncle in an attempt to steal his car? Or Flint Marko who says he really didn't want to kill him, and he's sorry...bo hoo.

And Harry does the same thing. Bernie tells Harry that the blade from his glider killed him, and all of a sudden he's helping Peter. If Harry was insane as he was suppose to be, and was hellbent of avenging his father, wouldn't he have thought "then Spider-Man stabed him with his own glider!"

...

I totally agree with you

 

[Tempest19]

From the original draft- at least the novel- it was always Bernard... unless they shot five different alternatives, similar to the variations of the Sandman and Spider-Man endings.

 

[Mr Jide]

"Here's how it really went Peter...blah blah blah...I didn't mean to kill your uncle."

And Peter believes everything he says. How naive. How does he know that Sandman wasn't lying so he would let him go? Wait a second...who would you believe? The cops that say Flint Marko, a man with a bad track record, aggressively shot down your uncle in an attempt to steal his car? Or Flint Marko who says he really didn't want to kill him, and he's sorry...bo hoo.

Marko had no history of being a homicidal maniac. Also, if he wanted to kill spidey, he would have, back during the armoured truck incident but even then he told him he didn't want to hurt him. So if he had no intention of killing a superhero (which would have made sandman a big shot for killing spidey) why is it so hard to believe that Marko wouldn't kill a defenseless old man? Plus, his daughter was there to reinforce that Marko isn't an evil man.

You should have created a more effective thread asking, why the hell spidey yet again converses with a supervillain without his mask on and to make things worse, Marko gets away.

And Harry does the same thing. Bernie tells Harry that the blade from his glider killed him, and all of a sudden he's helping Peter. If Harry was insane as he was suppose to be, and was hellbent of avenging his father, wouldn't he have thought "then Spider-Man stabed him with his own glider!"

...

That whole butler scene was just bad writing, can't be excused.

 

[e-three]

When did the cops say that he "aggressively" shot down Uncle Ben? They just said that he was the guy that really did it and Peter was the one who imagined an aggressive scene. Sandman was also the only person who was actually there when the murder happened. The cops didn't actually SEE what happened when Marko shot Ben, all they know is that he shot him.

 

[Comicfan]

Marko had no history of being a homicidal maniac. Also, if he wanted to kill spidey, he would have, back during the armoured truck incident but even then he told him he didn't want to hurt him. So if he had no intention of killing a superhero (which would have made sandman a big shot for killing spidey) why is it so hard to believe that Marko wouldn't kill a defenseless old man? Plus, his daughter was there to reinforce that Marko isn't an evil man.

You should have created a more effective thread asking, why the hell spidey yet again converses with a supervillain without his mask on and to make things worse, Marko gets away.

But sandman did try to kill spiderman, (and agian hurt/kill several civilians and cops) he just failed, and his daugther wasn´t there I don´t think Peter even know he had a daugther

And peter showing his have to the villian AGAIN!...stupid

 

[SpideyPredator]

And Harry does the same thing. Bernie tells Harry that the blade from his glider killed him, and all of a sudden he's helping Peter. If Harry was insane as he was suppose to be, and was hellbent of avenging his father, wouldn't he have thought "then Spider-Man stabed him with his own glider!"

...

Harry believed his Butler because Peter said the same thing to Harry.So Peter and his Butler both saying he killed Himself made him realize.

 

[SpideyPredator]

And Harry does the same thing. Bernie tells Harry that the blade from his glider killed him, and all of a sudden he's helping Peter. If Harry was insane as he was suppose to be, and was hellbent of avenging his father, wouldn't he have thought "then Spider-Man stabed him with his own glider!"

...

Harry believed his Butler because Peter said the same thing to Harry.So Peter and his Butler both saying he killed Himself made him realize it was true.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

"Here's how it really went Peter...blah blah blah...I didn't mean to kill your uncle."

And Peter believes everything he says. How naive. How does he know that Sandman wasn't lying so he would let him go? Wait a second...who would you believe? The cops that say Flint Marko, a man with a bad track record, aggressively shot down your uncle in an attempt to steal his car? Or Flint Marko who says he really didn't want to kill him, and he's sorry...bo hoo.

And Harry does the same thing. Bernie tells Harry that the blade from his glider killed him, and all of a sudden he's helping Peter. If Harry was insane as he was suppose to be, and was hellbent of avenging his father, wouldn't he have thought "then Spider-Man stabed him with his own glider!"

...

Agreed. I thought about your point about the glider as well.

 

[Dope Nose]

I don't think Spider-man had much of a say as to whether Sandman left or not. how could he have stopped him? given that there was really no incentive for Marko to lie.

and you can infer from Bernard's dialogue that he and the Osborns are extremely close so it's only natural that Harry would believe Bernard's statement about Norman dying by his own hand.

 

[Comicfan]

Agreed. I thought about your point about the glider as well.

So, Acording to Bernard logic, when he cleaned Harry´s wound he must have tought... "same as his father he died by his on hand stabing himself with his own skate"

 

[OcStat]

the sandman says throughout the film that he isnt a bad guy, tells his wife that "it wasnt like that" when she accuses him of killing someone. it isnt as forced as you think.

 

[Spiderine]

What was Peter going to say "You lier" how would he know how it went down. How would anyone know how it went down except Sandman. Peter can't do any thing but take his word for it unless Uncle Ben's ghost tell him how it went down.

 

[HarlequinOfHate]

I think in general this idea was faulty from the start. Sandman would want to lie, as it would be clear that Spider-Man posed at least some kind of threat to him. If not for that reason, then being a criminal might be another...

He had proved he was ready to kill, given that he would've finished off Spider-Man if a bomb hadn't hit him in the neck. So I agree with the original poster of this thread...it was odd for Peter to believe him. Even stranger that he would forgive him. "I killed your uncle, but oops. I'm sorry."
I don't know, this whole section was just so odd to me...


~HoH~

 

[Cristo]

Eh...who cares? It was a shoddy film.

 

[OcStat]

Eh...who cares? It was a shoddy film.

nice. just because you think it was a "shoddy film", a person cant ask questions? the TC obviously cares, or at least wants some other opinions, or else they wouldnt of typed it up.

this board reaks of this sort of elitism.

 

[November Rain]

"Here's how it really went Peter...blah blah blah...I didn't mean to kill your uncle."

And Peter believes everything he says. How naive. How does he know that Sandman wasn't lying so he would let him go? Wait a second...who would you believe? The cops that say Flint Marko, a man with a bad track record, aggressively shot down your uncle in an attempt to steal his car? Or Flint Marko who says he really didn't want to kill him, and he's sorry...bo hoo.

And Harry does the same thing. Bernie tells Harry that the blade from his glider killed him, and all of a sudden he's helping Peter. If Harry was insane as he was suppose to be, and was hellbent of avenging his father, wouldn't he have thought "then Spider-Man stabed him with his own glider!"

...

To be fair, spidey has a reputation of being somewhat gullible, the norman attempted to tell him that it was the goblin that was controlling him rather than he was commiting these crimes

 

[CARNAGE-COMETH]

Even if Peter didn't believe Sandman he would still have let him go for fear of getting his ass pounded by him.

Sandman would have killed the crap out of spiderman. without the black suit spidey was nothing.

Also in that scene I thing they both felt that enough blood shed had been spilt for one night. They both lost buddies.

 

[November Rain]

funny, i'm the exact opposite...

I swallowed the bernard scene without any hesistation but the whole sandman one was a lil worrying, especially since flint was still wanted (not as if he was on paroll) and was incredibly dangerous and powerful.

It makes me wonder what their future confrontations are likely to be like? Is spidey going to allow him to keep doing bad stuff...? Is his daughter going to die

At least in batman and robin when freeze goes down, batman HELPS him with his wife showing a kinder side. Spidey doesn't give a rat's ass...

 

[Naite22]

"Here's how it really went Peter...blah blah blah...I didn't mean to kill your uncle."

And Peter believes everything he says. How naive. How does he know that Sandman wasn't lying so he would let him go? Wait a second...who would you believe? The cops that say Flint Marko, a man with a bad track record, aggressively shot down your uncle in an attempt to steal his car? Or Flint Marko who says he really didn't want to kill him, and he's sorry...bo hoo.

And Harry does the same thing. Bernie tells Harry that the blade from his glider killed him, and all of a sudden he's helping Peter. If Harry was insane as he was suppose to be, and was hellbent of avenging his father, wouldn't he have thought "then Spider-Man stabed him with his own glider!"

...

1: Why should Sandman lie in that situation??? He's standing there with ****ing tears in his eyes, when he could've continued on trying to smash Peter's head in. It wouldn't make sense for him to lie right there. And why would he stick around to explain that heartbreaking story to Peter, when he could've just blown away with the wind at any time, letting Venom keep on knocking the **** out of Peter. "I didn't want this, but I had no choice". Peter is standing there thinking he's a nut, replying "We always have a choice... You had a choice when you killed my uncle!". Then Flint lays it all on him, explaining what happened, and all he has left is his daughter. If he TRUELY wanted to kill spidey, he would've continued what he started to begin with.

However, had he really wanted to send the message home, he should've helped Peter when he was on the verge of getting the final blow by Venom (like Darth Vader seeing the evilness in Palpatine, and helping Luke in the nick of time.)

2: Harry wasn't insane like his father was! The performence-enhancers had side-effects to surden people, like aggression and insanity (like Dr. Strome says in spidey 1). In Norman's case it developed a form of split-personality, hence insanity... But they also had successful tests with the perfomence-enhancers, it just wasn't perfect. It all comes down to who can take the medicin, and who can't. Norman obviously couldn't! Harry could handle it! He didn't go completely insane, he just got the power of the medicin. Harry is under the impression that Peter killed his father, and the only problem Harry has, which was there way BEFORE he ever took the performence-enhancers, is the tormenting image of his father inside his head driving him nuts, ultimately making him give in to the anger. As the symbiote clouds Peter's judgement, so does the medicin and his fathers ghost (constantly inside his head) do to Harry. It doesn't necessarily make him completely out of his mind crazy and uncontrolable, like with Norman.

You also have to remember that the performence-enhancers wears off eventually, which is why there's so many of them in the goblin-lair. And the 2'nd time around, Harry doesn't wanna kill Peter any more, he just wanna make him suffer. Peter also told Harry "I didn't kill your father, he was trying to kill me, he killed him self!". In the end he connects that piece of information, to what Bernard tells him about the glider-piece found inside his fathers wound. You can also clearly see, that when Peter comes to ask Harry for help, Harry is totally calm, and is just sad. Besides, Harry knew from the start that his father was the Green Goblin, a complete and utter PSYCHO! He was in denial for a long time. So even if Peter stabbed Norman with his glider, Harry KNOWS deep inside of him self, that his father was the baddie, and Peter is a hero. After the rematch between him and Peter, Harry has had a long time to finally come to his senses.

 

[Eggyman]

funny, i'm the exact opposite...

I swallowed the bernard scene without any hesistation but the whole sandman one was a lil worrying, especially since flint was still wanted (not as if he was on paroll) and was incredibly dangerous and powerful.

It makes me wonder what their future confrontations are likely to be like? Is spidey going to allow him to keep doing bad stuff...? Is his daughter going to die

At least in batman and robin when freeze goes down, batman HELPS him with his wife showing a kinder side. Spidey doesn't give a rat's ass...

I must admit that that is one of the things that has bothered me with this franchise: Spidey/Pete is quite selfish. In every one of the three films Spidey couldn't care less about finding the supervillain untill it affects HIS life and HIS loved ones. He never makes any effort to find and stop said bad guys untill they step on his toes and take MJ hostage. He stops them fair enough -- Goblin at Times Square, Ock at the bank -- but once the confrontation is over he just seems to shrug it off and make no attempt to find them.

Apart from the above, I can pretty much take anything these movies throw at me -- you can find plot holes in any good story, comic book or otherwise.