Season 6, Episode 4 "Book of the Stranger" Discussion Thread

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Great episode, loving this season so far I am on the edge of my seat every episode. Jon and Sansa reuniting gave me the feels, was sad at OSHA dying so quickly, and Danaereys had an awesome final scene that was another epic moment for here.

And I am delighted it wasn't a body double!

 

[Fist of Khonshu]

I assume the basins she overturned were oil basins. When they hit the ground the oil poured out and the fire lit it. Its like what happens if you throw an oil lamp on the floor.

I suppose it could have splashed on the stairs -then ignited, but floors aren't usually really combustible and everything else caught fire so quickly I can't believe there wasn't some kind of prior prep on the place.

Watch the scene again:

[YT]sodVDYSPCbY[/YT]

 

[Thundercrack85]

I am struggling with this season. Also, wouldn't killing all the leaders, patriarchs of klans, etc, royally piss off the Dothraki who are obsessed with blood relations? Seems like they just wanted that shot, and ignored common sense.

This whole fictional world seems to be unraveling. No one cared that Ramsay killed his own father, even though that's a huge no-no in Westeros. The fact that he killed Frey's daughter also doesn't seem to even be an issue, even though betraying Frey cost Robb Stark everything.

And then there is the terrible writing that is Dorne.

If I wasn't so invested in this show due to three magnificent seasons, I would probably stop watching.

 

[rashad]

 

[Marvolo]

I suppose it could have splashed on the stairs -then ignited, but floors aren't usually really combustible and everything else caught fire so quickly I can't believe there wasn't some kind of prior prep on the place.

Watch the scene again:

[YT]sodVDYSPCbY[/YT]

The floors arent what is igniting. The oil is. Oil will burn on anything whether the thing it is on is highly combustible or not.

And the rest of the structure was built with dry hardwood and thatch. That **** burns like a christmas tree once it gets going. As much oil as she dumped and the way she dumped the basins off a platform burning oil would have splashed everywhere. The floors the walls the beams etc.

What happened to the structure is about what to expect if you start splashing burning oil all over a wood structure in an extremely arid environment.

 

[Marvolo]

I am struggling with this season. Also, wouldn't killing all the leaders, patriarchs of klans, etc, royally piss off the Dothraki who are obsessed with blood relations? Seems like they just wanted that shot, and ignored common sense.

This whole fictional world seems to be unraveling. No one cared that Ramsay killed his own father, even though that's a huge no-no in Westeros. The fact that he killed Frey's daughter also doesn't seem to even be an issue, even though betraying Frey cost Robb Stark everything.

And then there is the terrible writing that is Dorne.

If I wasn't so invested in this show due to three magnificent seasons, I would probably stop watching.

No one outside of Winterfell knows that Ramsay killed Walda so the Freys can't really get pissed about what they know nothing about. And no one outside of the dining hall in winterfell know that Ramsay killed Roose, so again, why would anyone be pissed about something they dont know anything about?

As for the Dothraki, they respect power. Khals that fall or cant ride cant lead. I dont recall blood having anything to do with it. And they are extremely primitive in ways. A girl roasting the leaders and walking out of the burning inferno with not a single burn on her is enough to get them on their knees.

Doesnt mean that she might not have some pushback from some fools, but if she doesn't get any pushback its not that unbelievable that a bunch of primitive nomads would think she is a goddess or some supernatural thing after what they witnessed.

Hell, even Daario was sold on her in that moment. You could see it on his face. In that moment she wasnt just a dragon that he rode.

 

[Fist of Khonshu]

The floors arent what is igniting. The oil is. Oil will burn on anything whether the thing it is on is highly combustible or not.

And the rest of the structure was built with dry hardwood and thatch. That **** burns like a christmas tree once it gets going. As much oil as she dumped and the way she dumped the basins off a platform burning oil would have splashed everywhere. The floors the walls the beams etc.

What happened to the structure is about what to expect if you start splashing burning oil all over a wood structure in an extremely arid environment.

Yeah I realize that, but as an experienced pyromaniac as a child/teen who played around with my parents' stock of lamp oil, motor oil and gasoline and made Molotov cocktails, I don't see lamp oil quickly igniting everything nor raising 2 ft. high flames instantly. I've knocked over a burning oil lamp btw, it did not start an inferno.

What we saw looks more like some kind of Greek Fire to me.

I'm sure they didn't torch that set without presoaking it with flammable chemical first either.

 

[Marvolo]

Yeah I realize that, but as an experienced pyromaniac as a child/teen who played around with my parents' stock of lamp oil, motor oil and gasoline and made Molotov cocktails, I don't see lamp oil quickly igniting everything nor raising 2 ft. high flames instantly. I've knocked over a burning oil lamp btw, it did not start an inferno.

What we saw looks more like some kind of Greek Fire to me.

I'm sure they didn't torch that set without presoaking it with flammable chemical first either.

Playing with a little bit of lamp oil isnt the same as knocking over sizable basins full of lit oil in a entirely wooden structure in an arid dessert. The oil, the fire, the dry air, the dry wood thats a recipe for a quick burn.

And like I said the lamp oil doesnt ignite things instantly. The oil itself sticks to stuff and burns itself. The oil was already burning when it was dump so when it touched anything the oil itself would be burning on top of whatever it is on. Sure its going to look like it ignited the wood instantly but thats not what is happening. Tho with the dry air and the wood it would all catch pretty quickly.

Im pretty sure if you pour 4 or 5 gallons of already burning oil all over the floor of an old barn or any all wood structure in an arid place its gonna turn into a blaze pretty quickly.

 

[BestGirl]

We need to get Mythbusters on the case.

 

[Reek]

This show has dragons.. ice demons.. time travel.. teleportation powers...

and we talk about how lit oil burnt down a wood and hay building.

I was shocked when that Dothraki died when Daario stabbed him through the heart! HOW DID THAT HAPPEN?!

oh and i forgot, of course... the all important TELEPATHY

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

We need to get Mythbusters on the case.

Unfortunately, they got cancelled.

 

[TheFuture]

Killing off Osha like that was pretty lame, i have to admit.

Ramsay is very smart, well in the show at least. Given what Theon told him he knew Osha was too much of a wildcard to keep alive. So there was no torture or flaying, just straight up get rid.

But fair play to the actress for coming back just for that non role, very professional. Hopefully Rickon gets at least one defiant and bad ass scene.

 

[Fist of Khonshu]

Playing with a little bit of lamp oil isnt the same as knocking over sizable basins full of lit oil in a entirely wooden structure in an arid dessert. The oil, the fire, the dry air, the dry wood thats a recipe for a quick burn.

And like I said the lamp oil doesnt ignite things instantly. The oil itself sticks to stuff and burns itself. The oil was already burning when it was dump so when it touched anything the oil itself would be burning on top of whatever it is on. Sure its going to look like it ignited the wood instantly but thats not what is happening. Tho with the dry air and the wood it would all catch pretty quickly.

Im pretty sure if you pour 4 or 5 gallons of already burning oil all over the floor of an old barn or any all wood structure in an arid place its gonna turn into a blaze pretty quickly.

I don't disagree with much of this, just that the speed and ease of it that was depicted is unrealistic, IMO.

Things always burn more readily on the screen than in real life. I live in a dry climate (in the desert), and I've set a variety of things on fire so I know. And I've watched both structure and wilderness fires.

A thin layer of oil burns out quickly unless it has fuel (or it's napalm), but it wasn't splattered onto a pile of brush and twigs, or kindling. Planks and beams don't usually instantaneously ignite from some spilled oil unless they've been pretreated. They certainly don't become a raging inferno climbing to the ceiling in ten seconds like in this scene! The thatch walls and roof might do better but they have no proximity to the spills.

Also I wouldn't call those "sizable basins"; they were small-medium braziers with about a quart+ in each --certainly not great vats. Additionally, they were spilled into a wide, dirt ring surrounding the stage. I've burned oil and gas in dirt, it doesn't burn easily or long. That ring basically serves as a firebreak, like the kind wilderness firefighters create to check the advance of a wildfire.

I'm not saying it's impossible for the place to burn down but these factors matter in slowing things down substantially.

Even though I love the scene artistically, it's just not a very realistic scene on few points including this one, that is unless Dany had the temple prepared in advance. She has at least one, maybe two khaleesis in her corner. The young one whom Daario had threatened could have assisted this plan. Perhaps she filled the braziers and then splashed some around near where the Khals would sit and on the posts. That at least makes it a little more believable.

 

[Thundercrack85]

This show has dragons.. ice demons.. time travel.. teleportation powers...

and we talk about how lit oil burnt down a wood and hay building.

I was shocked when that Dothraki died when Daario stabbed him through the heart! HOW DID THAT HAPPEN?!

oh and i forgot, of course... the all important TELEPATHY

Internal consistency. Or just say it's magic oil or fire.

 

[Fist of Khonshu]

This show has dragons.. ice demons.. time travel.. teleportation powers...

and we talk about how lit oil burnt down a wood and hay building.

I was shocked when that Dothraki died when Daario stabbed him through the heart! HOW DID THAT HAPPEN?!

oh and i forgot, of course... the all important TELEPATHY

Of course! t:

Some things need to be grounded, the whole thing cant be an acid trip!

 

[Reek]

.... I just want to know what Robin Arryn has planned for that poor bird.

 

[Infinity9999x]

The floor looked like it was covered in something similar to sawdust/very fine woodchips, and that stuff does go up like an explosive.

 

[Reek]

For the love of god... did you people not see her walking around the tent? She was clearly peeing. And if there is one thing I know about dragon pee... it's flammable.

Kind of like Gabriel Byrnes tinkle in End of Days

 

[Fist of Khonshu]

The floor looked like it was covered in something similar to sawdust/very fine woodchips, and that stuff does go up like an explosive.

I've watched the episode 3x now and I didnt see sawdust and woodchips. It's not a hamster cage! I also didn't see the floor "exploding"!

I did see what looked like a dark stain in front of the Khals though....

 

[Fist of Khonshu]

.... I just want to know what Robin Arryn has planned for that poor bird.

Littlefinger remembers what Robin did with the last "bird" gift so he figured a live one stands a better chance.

 

[Drz]

I am struggling with this season. Also, wouldn't killing all the leaders, patriarchs of klans, etc, royally piss off the Dothraki who are obsessed with blood relations? Seems like they just wanted that shot, and ignored common sense.

Yeah that's exactly what happened.

All those Dothraki who see Daenerys? They don't know who she is, they don't know she is Daenerys Targaryen but they do know that:
- She killed in the sacred city, where you cannot kill.
- She destroyed their holy temple.
- She is a Fire Witch.

If noone challanges her next episode, that's really bad continuity, because the tv show already established the Dothraki as anti-magic in season 1.

The fact that he killed Frey's daughter also doesn't seem to even be an issue, even though betraying Frey cost Robb Stark everything.

Well Ramsay is clearly going to die this season, now that Jon is taking Stannis' plot, but again why doesn't Walter Frey try and claim Winterfell? It was rightfully Bolton's and his daughter was married to the Boltons, the Freys have rightful claim and i'm sure the Lannisters wouldn't mind it.

The Freys probably have the biggest army too.

If I wasn't so invested in this show due to three magnificent seasons, I would probably stop watching.

Amen to that.

No one outside of Winterfell knows that Ramsay killed Walda so the Freys can't really get pissed about what they know nothing about. And no one outside of the dining hall in winterfell know that Ramsay killed Roose, so again, why would anyone be pissed about something they dont know anything about?

Lol everyone has called out Ramsay. The Umbers, the Starks, Karstarks, they all know Ramsay murdered Roose and therefore he also murdered Walda. Noone believes Ramsay.

And they are extremely primitive in ways. A girl roasting the leaders and walking out of the burning inferno with not a single burn on her is enough to get them on their knees.

No, that would be a fire witch and the Dothraki hate magic.

 

[Marvolo]

Yeah that's exactly what happened.

All those Dothraki who see Daenerys? They don't know who she is, they don't know she is Daenerys Targaryen but they do know that:
- She killed in the sacred city, where you cannot kill.
- She destroyed their holy temple.
- She is a Fire Witch.

If noone challanges her next episode, that's really bad continuity, because the tv show already established the Dothraki as anti-magic in season 1.

Well Ramsay is clearly going to die this season, now that Jon is taking Stannis' plot, but again why doesn't Walter Frey try and claim Winterfell? It was rightfully Bolton's and his daughter was married to the Boltons, the Freys have rightful claim and i'm sure the Lannisters wouldn't mind it.

The Freys probably have the biggest army too.



Amen to that.



Lol everyone has called out Ramsay. The Umbers, the Starks, Karstarks, they all know Ramsay murdered Roose and therefore he also murdered Walda. Noone believes Ramsay.
No, that would be a fire witch and the Dothraki hate magic.

The show established the dothraki are afraid of blood magic. No one saw her commit any blood magic. No one saw her kill anyone. All they saw was a blazing inferno and her walking out unscathed. Nothing in the show contradicts them bowing to a person that just walked out of a fire unscathed. At most these primitives think she is a god of some sort, and at the least they probably think she is someone who is special in some way. Either way she performed an feat that would blow a bunch of superstitious primitive minds. And the Dosh Khaleen are considered seers and head the dothraki religion and Khals listen to them. If the Dosh Khaleen bow to Dany the rest in Vaes Dothrak would likely too. Hell, any superstitious Dothraki with a shred of survival instinct isn't going to go against the Dosh Khaleen and a person that walked out of a fire unscathed. There may be that one fool who tries it, but if there isn't it isn't contradicting anything.

And yes they do know who she is. One of the girls asked if she really had dragons. Her reputation precedes her across Essos due to the **** storm she has caused. I seriously doubt a widow of a khal enters Vaes Dothrak, speaks with a Khal, and enters the temple of the Dosh Khaleen and no one hears about it or gossips about it. So word would have spread around that the widow of Khal Drogo was in Vaes Dothrak and with her reputation it wouldn't take long for the inhabitants of Vaes Dothrak to figure out who she is.

And Drogon is supposed to show up which gives them even less reason to challenge her.

Whether Walder believes he has a claim or not, he would have to be an absolute fool to send his army North to claim Winterfell by force during winter. He'd be risking everything he has for a frozen castle, responsibility for a land he knows nothing about, a people that would rebel and resist, and a Wall that no one in the south wants to even think about. But we may yet see him do this very incredibly stupid thing. He's going to be in the season so he may foolishly send his army north before the end of the season. That is if he doesn't die before he gets to do that.

 

[Drz]

No one saw her commit any blood magic.

That is true, but once again:
- In the city where no killing is allowed, all Khals are killed.
- They see her walk out of fire.
- She destroyed their sacred temple.

Therefore, you'd think that the primal nomads that the Dothraki are would see this as a sacrilige and the only explanation they can find for Daenerys to survive the flames is that she is a Witch.

It isn't common knowledge that Daenerys Targaryen can withstand fire and you cannot expect that everyone knows who she even is.

her reputation it wouldn't take long for the inhabitants of Vaes Dothrak to figure out who she is.

That is a lot of reaching.

EDIT: Let me discuss this a bit further. In the first episodes of season 6, noone of the Dothraki (which includes the Khal) had no clue who their white haired slave was, until she herself told them who she was, then she was introduced to the widows where she spent all her time.

You are now assuming that the few people Daenerys introduced herself to, would have spread this gossip to all the 50 thousand Dothraki? Really? And even if they'd know who she was, why wouldn't they think she is a Witch? She can withstand fire and supposedly is the Mother of Dragons?

Add that with the destroying a sacred temple and murdering people in a city where murdering isn't allowed.... Why wouldn't the Dothraki try and destroy her? She's a demon to them.

Whether Walder believes he has a claim or not, he would have to be an absolute fool to send his army North to claim Winterfell by force during winter.

How? We see Littlefinger teleport to Castle Black next episode. The only character and army that had diffucultiies to travel in North was Stannis.

If Littlefinger and the Vale army can do this, why can't the Freys?

a people that would rebel and resist

Frey has the King's support.

 

[Pink Ranger]

The eventual lovemaking between those two will cause such massive tectonic upheaval, Daenerys won't need ships to bring her armies to Westeros.

 

[mr. peasant]

That is true, but once again:
- In the city where no killing is allowed, all Khals are killed.
- They see her walk out of fire.
- She destroyed their sacred temple.

Regarding your assumptions:

Firstly, there is no explicit taboo on killing in the city; just from carrying weapons (or at most, spilling blood). Drogo killed Viserys without rebuke all the way back in Season 1 and the show made a point of reminding us of this distinction right before Daenerys entered the temple; what with Moro not bothering to find out who killed his bloodrider with a rock.

Secondly, people only saw her emerging unscathed from the burning temple. No one saw her actually cause it or kill all the Khals. It could all just as easily be interpreted as divine intervention; i.e. the Great Stallion smiting weak, undeserving Khals. Especially when one considers the prophecy about the Stallion Who Mounts The World and Daenerys' close associations with it coming to fruition.

But even if they did know that she killed all the Khals, does it matter? The Dothraki respect strength not relations; as seen by how many of Drogo's bloodriders abandoned the khalasar when Drogo developed septicemia.

That is a lot of reaching.

EDIT: Let me discuss this a bit further. In the first episodes of season 6, noone of the Dothraki (which includes the Khal) had no clue who their white haired slave was, until she herself told them who she was, then she was introduced to the widows where she spent all her time.

You're describing two very different situations. When travelling out in the great, wide world, the Dothraki will come across many pale, blonde-haired foreigners; not all of whom are necessarily the widow of the late Khal Drogo. However, when a pale, blonde-haired woman gets brought into the sacred city, made to reside with the dosh khaleen, and summoned to be debated over at the khalar vezvhen, then her identity becomes much more obvious.