Season 6, Episode 9 "Battle of the Bastards" Discussion Thread

[Reek]

She said it in this episode it was at the will of her Red God.

lol but that doesn't mean he told her to do it! where are you even getting that from???? Her saying it was the will of the red god was like saying 'this tree fell over, it was gods will'... she was not told by him to resurrect jon. Period. if she was Davos wouldn't have had to convince her and she would have been doing it from the get go.

Don't make things up

 

[DarthSkywalker]

It's cool, I feel like you're ignoring everything we've ever seen, so we're even.

If I did that I would be agreeing with you.

 

[Fist of Khonshu]

Davos did persuade her to try and resurrect Jon AND it was by the will of the Red God that it worked.

 

[Reek]

but he didn't tell her to do it. simple.

 

[flickchick85]

Stannis rain to the walls of the city to avoid being hit with arrows, as his men held up shields to block the falling rocks and arrows. See, logic FC.

I don't know what you mean about Watchers, as Jon was targeted. It is why he was almost killed by the Thenn.

None of this compares to what happened tonight. That was something utterly special in that regard as every arrow missed him, but hit his dead brother.

Yeah, it's not like Ramsay was AIMING for Rickon or anything, lol.

Did you forget Jon's brilliant plan after the battle of the wall to go "talk" to Mance? Even Sam was like, damn, bad plan son. Then of course Stannis saved his ass. But Jon's the guy willing to make the sacrifice play, to fight like hell on the losing side as long as it's the right one. He's a logical man who will always take the honorable route and put his faith in people, just like his father. He's no genius strategist.

 

[Marvolo]

Jon also strikes me more as a blue collar down to earth guy. He leads with his heart, sticks to his guns, and goes with his gut, public opinion be damned. Robb was much more of a Westeros Lord. Trained and reared for leadership and ruling.

If I had to sum up the difference between the two:

Robb is a west point officer. Jon is a Vietnam enlisted soldier that has been in the **** for years. Both have their advantages and disadvantages.

And frankly it's irrelevant if Jon was trained to be Robb's second in command (a thing I don't recall being established in the show). After being apart for years and the **** Jon has been dealing with and preparing to deal with he has grown into his own man.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

lol but that doesn't mean he told her to do it! where are you even getting that from???? Him saying it was the will of the red god was like saying 'this tree fell over, it was gods will'... she was not told by him to resurrect jon. Period. if she was Davos wouldn't have had to convince her and she would have been doing it from the get go.

Don't make things up

She said she interprets his signs. She mentions it during their conversation they have in this episode. But as she is shaken at the time of Jon's resurrection, she doesn't pay attention. Davos does get to to finally do it, but watch the first episode of the season. She gets a sign. She saw Jon in the flames fighting at Winterfell. That is why she accepts it after the fact of course.

 

[flickchick85]

Jon also strikes me more as a blue collar down to earth guy. He leads with his heart, sticks to his guns, and goes with his gut, public opinion be damned. Robb was much more of a Westeros Lord. Trained and reared for leadership and ruling.

If I had to sum up the difference between the two:

Robb is a west point officer. Jon is a Vietnam enlisted soldier that has been in the **** for years. Both have their advantages and disadvantages.

And frankly it's irrelevant if Jon was trained to be Robb's second in command (a thing I don't recall being established in the show). After being apart for years and the **** Jon has been dealing with and preparing to deal with he has grown into his own man.

Agreed on all counts.

And as for Jon being targeted by one brute in Watchers, literally anyone could have shot him with an arrow much more efficiently, but that would have cheated us out of a lovely fight, and who wants that? Same logic goes here, imo.

 

[flickchick85]

If I did that I would be agreeing with you.

Aw, I knew you'd come around.

In all seriousness though, it's all good. Different strokes. I preferred this ep for it's visceral and emotional qualities, you preferred others and had issues with this one. That's what makes the world go 'round.

 

[Reek]

Jon was targeted by Ygritte... and Yrgitte only. The rest didn't give a **** they wanted all the crows dead.

and DS, you straight up said the lord of light told her to bring him back. He did not. There's not argument there.

She did what the Lord of Light told her to do. And that is exactly why Jon is alive.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Jon also strikes me more as a blue collar down to earth guy. He leads with his heart, sticks to his guns, and goes with his gut, public opinion be damned. Robb was much more of a Westeros Lord. Trained and reared for leadership and ruling.

If I had to sum up the difference between the two:

Robb is a west point officer. Jon is a Vietnam enlisted soldier that has been in the **** for years. Both have their advantages and disadvantages.

And frankly it's irrelevant if Jon was trained to be Robb's second in command (a thing I don't recall being established in the show). After being apart for years and the **** Jon has been dealing with and preparing to deal with he has grown into his own man.

Yeah, pretty much. Jon may have been trained and educated more as a soldier, but his combat experience has made him into a leader.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Yeah, it's not like Ramsay was AIMING for Rickon or anything, lol.

Did you forget Jon's brilliant plan after the battle of the wall to go "talk" to Mance? Even Sam was like, damn, bad plan son. Then of course Stannis saved his ass. But Jon's the guy willing to make the sacrifice play, to fight like hell on the losing side as long as it's the right one. He's a logical man who will always take the honorable route and put his faith in people, just like his father. He's no genius strategist.

I was talking about when Jon rides towards them, by himself, while Rickon's dead body was nailed a few more times.

Jon's plan was to get ride of Mance, to cause division in the army. The plan is smart and he is of course desperate. Because they can't take another attack. It makes perfect strategical logic. Jon doesn't need to be a genius strategist to have been taught to be a good one. It is why he digs the trenches.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Jon was targeted by Ygritte... and Yrgitte only. The rest didn't give a **** they wanted all the crows dead.

and DS, you straight up said the lord of light told her to bring him back. He did not. There's not argument there.

Then who did he kill with that ax again? Ygritte might be the only actual archer in Castle Black. But again, how do you explain his fight with the Thenn?

He did. I just showed you, go watch the first episode of the season. You ignored it like Mel did.

 

[flickchick85]

I was talking about when Jon rides towards them, by himself, while Rickon's dead body was nailed a few more times.

Jon's plan was to get ride of Mance, to cause division in the army. The plan is smart and he is of course desperate. Because they can't take another attack. It makes perfect strategical logic. Jon doesn't need to be a genius strategist to have been taught to be a good one. It is why he digs the trenches.

Come on now, it was a dumb plan, which is why we didn't get to see it enacted. Even he admitted it, but it was all he had 'til Deus Ex Baratheon.

Also, I'm watching a re-run of the ep now, and those arrows you're talking about didn't start hitting the ground until after Jon started riding at them at full speed...which would make anyone damn hard to hit. And at least one got his horse. I find that no less ridiculous than any of a NUMBER of things I've seen throughout the best eps of this show, lol.

 

[Reek]

Then who did he kill with that ax again? Ygritte might be the only actual archer in Castle Black. But again, how do you explain his fight with the Thenn?

He did. I just showed you, go watch the first episode of the season. You ignored it like Mel did.

Ignoring your condescension, please show me where the Lord of Light told Melisandre "bring jon back"... Because he doesn't. You are trying to win an argument you can't win by evading the fact that you are wrong. That was never once stated. but please, continue to pretend she said the lord of light wants me to bring him back.

I explain his fight with the Magnar of the Thenn as a coincidence in a close quarters, go back and watch the episode... He was not targeting Jon Snow... WHY WOULD HE? Because Ygritte mentioned some ginger minch?

Speaking of ignoring episodes, I'm wondering if you watch them at all or just look at youtube clips now.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Jon also strikes me more as a blue collar down to earth guy. He leads with his heart, sticks to his guns, and goes with his gut, public opinion be damned. Robb was much more of a Westeros Lord. Trained and reared for leadership and ruling.

If I had to sum up the difference between the two:

Robb is a west point officer. Jon is a Vietnam enlisted soldier that has been in the **** for years. Both have their advantages and disadvantages.

And frankly it's irrelevant if Jon was trained to be Robb's second in command (a thing I don't recall being established in the show). After being apart for years and the **** Jon has been dealing with and preparing to deal with he has grown into his own man.

Both were trained in the art of war. That is the point. The make a big deal out of it when Jon gets to the Wall. Robb was trained to rule, but I am not talking about ruling, I am talking about battle, about fighting, about war.

Jon has grown as a person and leader, I don't disagree. He has become a man. But his ability to wage war is down to his education, as is his ability to fight with a sword. Look at the scene with him and Tyrion when they discuss the difference between this bastard who was brought up like a young lord, taught to fight and wage war, and the others there who have never been trained. He shows Jon how selfish he is.

It is why the Old Bear chose him to lead. His whole arc at the Wall is built around it. He is more Ned, then anyone else, even as he isn't his son most likely. They emphasis this multiple times. And yes he brought up his place next to Robb's side when he wants to leave the Watch in season 1. And I believe that Robb brings it up while talking to Theon in season 2.

 

[Reek]

if everyone was targeting jon snow... there wouldnt have been a battle with the thenn... Jon would have been bombarded with a bunch of wildlings...

but the thenn magically knew who jon was for... DarthSkywalker purposes.

The Lord of Light says this and that...if it's just him, then Beric must be the Prince who was promised because R'hllor ressurected him 8 ****ing times

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

Who is baelish again? Is he that uncle of Theon and his sister who made a pact with the mother of dragons?


The best episode thus far! I rooted for Jon! I thought to myself, even though they look like they're outnumbered but I knew Sansa was going to show up with more forces and Ramsay would get what he deserves...get mauled by his own hounds. Now that bastard will feel what its like to be mauled alive and be watched while it happens to him. Ironic, isn't it? He watched his step mother and baby brother get mauled alive by his hounds and in the end, it comes back to bite him in the ass. I loved that Sansa watched it all...and that smirk on her face...haha. so wicked. I love it. I saw it coming though and I clapped a few times throughout the episode. I was like yeah!! when the stark banner replaced the bolton banner.

Man, it will be interesting what season 7 will bring. I dunno but does anyone think that maybe just maybe, Jon will meet the Queen mother of dragons and they join forces to defeat the Walkers? ... I mean. Although this could lead to a lot of other things but ... can the Night King turn living creatures into dead? Like what if he could take one of the dragons and turn it into an unstoppable killing machine turning against everyone? ...

I don't know if I want that to happen...honestly, I am sure whatever happens...it won't come down to that. It would suck for the Queen mother...losing one of her babies.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Baelish, Lord of Harrenhall, Sigil: two Seahorses combatant, white on green.

 

[Reek]

smells like cabbage

 

[Marvolo]

Tiny hands.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Ignoring your condescension, please show me where the Lord of Light told Melisandre "bring jon back"... Because he doesn't. You are trying to win an argument you can't win by evading the fact that you are wrong. That was never once stated. but please, continue to pretend she said the lord of light wants me to bring him back.

I explain his fight with the Magnar of the Thenn as a coincidence in a close quarters, go back and watch the episode... He was not targeting Jon Snow... WHY WOULD HE? Because Ygritte mentioned some ginger minch?

Speaking of ignoring episodes, I'm wondering if you watch them at all or just look at youtube clips now.

Listen, I am telling you when it happened. Right now go and watch the scene from the first episode of the season where she mentions seeing Jon in the flame fighting at Winterfell. That is the Lord of Light giving her a sign.

Now watch the scene tonight with Mel and Jon. She says,

"I serve the Lord of Light. I do what he commands. I interpret his signs as well as I can. If the Lord didn't want me to bring you back, how did I bring you back? I have no power, only what he gives me and he gave me you".

She was told to bring him back, but didn't consider it because she was all disillusioned. She realized after she did it what the visions meant. Mel is different now. She doesn't have full faith in herself, in how she interprets what he tells her.

What do you mean by targeting? Because no one is "targeted' in the fight except for Jon by Ygritte, and she can't pull the trigger. Everything else is fighting who is in front of you with the position you have taken up.

Reek, I like you. But don't treat me like the ******* who didn't actually watch episodes and was trolling here. I have spent time talking about this show here since season 2. Don't agree with me, fine, but don't do that.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

if everyone was targeting jon snow... there wouldnt have been a battle with the thenn... Jon would have been bombarded with a bunch of wildlings...

but the thenn magically knew who jon was for... DarthSkywalker purposes.

The Lord of Light says this and that...if it's just him, then Beric must be the Prince who was promised because R'hllor ressurected him 8 ****ing times

I thought the point was Jon wasn't "attacked". I didn't know what you meant about targeting. No one was targeted at that battle outside of the giants, because well they are giants. The Wildings don't fight like a trained army. They aren't trained to target a leader.

I think Mel made it pretty clear tonight. They all have a role. She brought Jon back to fulfill his. As she said, it could be to die at Winterfell, she did not know. The same applies to Beric. He will serve his role and then he won't be coming back. In the books, we knew what that was. On the show, we don't.

 

[Reek]

so much for there being a 'harpy' ...

 

[Reek]

I don't know what you mean about Watchers, as Jon was targeted. It is why he was almost killed by the Thenn.

What do you mean by targeting? Because no one is "targeted' in the fight except for Jon by Ygritte, and she can't pull the trigger. Everything else is fighting who is in front of you with the position you have taken up.

that is exactly what i said lol

Reek, I like you. But don't treat me like the ******* who didn't actually watch episodes and was trolling here. I have spent time talking about this show here since season 2. Don't agree with me, fine, but don't do that.

oh shut up. I'll buy you a beer later. we're fighting here.