Season 6, Episode 9 "Battle of the Bastards" Discussion Thread

I didn't want to read the books, but since the show is straying from their course (and has been) I guess my hand has been forced.

Why wouldnt you want to read the books? Afraid you'd like the show less if you realized how much they changed and that the books are better in many ways? Its understandable if thats why you didnt want to read them. Im just curious about why you didnt want to read them.
 
No... but when it comes to the show, it looks like most of the budget went to the bastardbowl, so I wouldn't get too pumped about BoF

I've adjusted my expectations, but I'm just glad to see a semblance of it in the show. I wasn't expecting to get it at all.
 
Why would Ramsay fight him out in the field and not from a strategic fortified position in Winterfell? Is it because he has him outnumbered by so much? Totally leaving his flank open for Littlefinger and the Knights of the Vale to destroy.

Because he absolutely loves being his own man. Roose told him to fight Stannis from Winterfell and let the weather conditions destroy Stannis. Ramsay choose to meet his tattered army in the field. Roose told him not to play his games with Sansa. He played his games with her. He had some daddy issues and his hubris and independent streak will be his undoing
 
Anyone notice in the trailer that Tormund and his fellow Wildlings are kind of looking like "wtf?" like something is running or charging at them?

I don't think Ramsay's army is as big as we might think cause his forces VS Stannis was composed of mercenary horsemen that defected from Stannis' own force (on account of the weather, if I remember right).

As I understand it the Bolton army is around 4000 men, plus whatever bannermen he calls upon
 
Lord Petyr Baelish is never out of the game. :funny:

Mark my words, Littlefinger will take the Iron Throne before all is said and done. He will lose it. But any downfall before him taking it would be incredibly anti-climactic considering he is the true evil mastermind at the heart of every problem in Westeros (aside from the White Walkers...and even then, the country would be in a far better position to defend itself, but for Baelish).

The two men directing everything since day one have been Baelish and Varys. One is manipulating everything in the west now, and one is dictating things in the east. I've suspected Baelish's goal has been to control Westeros from the beginning.

When Baelish told Varys that "chaos is a ladder" it was the most explicit declaration he's ever made about his intentions.
 
My prediction is that Rickon will be one of the burning flayed men in the front of the formation.
 
The two men directing everything since day one have been Baelish and Varys. One is manipulating everything in the west now, and one is dictating things in the east. I've suspected Baelish's goal has been to control Westeros from the beginning.

When Baelish told Varys that "chaos is a ladder" it was the most explicit declaration he's ever made about his intentions.

I don't think Littlefinger's plans, at least until recently, have been that well defined. I think his plan originally simply started out as gain power and take revenge, how much power was probably beyond the scope of his cares at the time.

I once read someone describe Littlefinger and Varys as yin and yang. One is chaos, the other is order. Varys is very bad at adapting on the fly. He has a long term game plan in mind (restoring the Targaryens) and knows exactly how he wants everything to play out to get there.

Littlefinger, on the other hand, just goes with the chaos. He may have a long term goal (the throne) but he is far better at adapting to circumstances.

For example: Varys wanted Ned sent to the wall after declaring Joffrey rightful king, which would create tension and uncertainty with the North but not war, which Varys did not want to come to pass (as it makes it that much harder for Dany to unite the seven kingdoms). Meanwhile, Littlefinger saw that as an opportunity to capitalize and use the chaos to expand his own power. Some speculate that he even gently nudged Joffrey into executing Ned.

In essence, Varys is Lex Luthor, Littlefinger is the Joker. Both are masterminds, but one uses order to get what he wants, the other uses chaos. One is rigid, the other adaptable. Varys is a chessmaster, with every move carefully planned 10 moves in advance. Littlefinger on the other hand just rolls the dice and goes with the outcome and then flips it to his advantage.
 
Why wouldnt you want to read the books? Afraid you'd like the show less if you realized how much they changed and that the books are better in many ways? Its understandable if thats why you didnt want to read them. Im just curious about why you didnt want to read them.

Well I was joking. I've considered reading the books, but for me reading is a commitment and I just gotta wait till a good time to read them.
 
Why wouldnt you want to read the books? Afraid you'd like the show less if you realized how much they changed and that the books are better in many ways? Its understandable if thats why you didnt want to read them. Im just curious about why you didnt want to read them.

I've read them, after watching the show, and prefer the show. I like Martin's writing style, it is a fun subversion of Tolkein. But I think he often writes without a bigger plan in place for a lot of his subplots. This can result in convoluted, confusing story telling. Beyond that, I am not crazy about the POV format of the books. I generally dislike dishonest narrators as a storytelling device and this is no exception. With Martin's work, you can read an entire chapter devoted to a character responding to an event that didn't even happen, all based on their erroneous perception --- but the audience doesn't learn that until about 10 chapters later. I find it to be a deceptive form of storytelling, often done for the sake of confusing the reader rather than advancing the plot. Don't get me wrong, I like the books. I just prefer the show's method of telling the story.
 
I stopped reading after the third book. Just kinda fell out of it.

At this point, I may just wait until the show is finished before I pick the books up again.
 
As I understand it the Bolton army is around 4000 men, plus whatever bannermen he calls upon

Is that the army featured in this battle? Because that makes the setup a bit better than what I was understanding it to be. I figured he'd show up commanding the full, tens of thousands of men he was talking about getting if he got the entire power of the Boltons, Karstarks, and Umbers in one group. If his character is impulsive enough to attack with only a 2-1 advantage, that makes Jon Snow and Davos's plan to consolidate what forces they have make much more sense.
 
I'm hoping Jon has more ulterior motives for challenging Ramsay to a champion battle during their partly than just trying to get an easier victory. Maybe he's stalling for time so that his men can get into a better position, or Sansa tells him about her letter so he really does need to make any conversation last a while...

"Ramsay, you are a fiend, and it would please me to paint my steel with your blood. But I wish to save both our armies from unnecessary slaughter. Name your champion, and we shall resolve this matter in Trial By Combat."

"Agreed, Jon Snow. I name as my champion Ser Trystaine of the Umbers, greatest bladesman in the north."

"Name any champion you wish. Anyone at all. Seriously. Anyone. We shall prevail nonetheless."

"Uh, yes, I just did that. Ser Trystaine."

"I'm sorry, Ser Who?"

"Ser. Trystaine. Of. The. Umbers."

"Right, right. So you're sure about that then?"

"Yes!"

"You're not going to consider anyone else? How about that skinny fella over there, with the funny hat?"

"You are pointing your finger at the straw dummy we use for archery practice."

"Right. So not him, then?"

"No! Not him!"

"Okay, right then. Message received. Ser Trystaine of the Umbers, greatest bladesman of the north, it is then. Your choice could not have been clearer. So ... what's this all for again?"

"Wha ... for the Trial By Combat, you idiot!"

"Ah, so it's a Trial By Combat you want! Fine! Then name your champion!"

"Snow, there are only two episodes left this season. You really want to keep doing this?"
 
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#GetHyped

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Damnit, Kane! Youre not making the wait any easier.:argh:
 
Wun Wun would be Snow's champion.

:funny: The look on Ramsay's face would be priceless.


"One rule, Snow: no giants!"

"Oh come on, he's not a giant. He has a pituitary problem, like Gheorghe Mureșan."

"We're not supposed to know who that is!"

"You know, Ramsay, this constant bigotry against the disabled you are showing right now is like the worst thing you've ever done."
 
I wonder how many men Littlefinger might have with him? The Tulleys left Riverrun would they come to Jon's aide too? The Brotherhood is too small to matter much. I doubt Nymeria and her pack would show up.
 
I want to see that bastard burned. Its been too long since Mel burned someone.
 

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