Sexuality in Batman Returns: an analysis

[Smalley]

This may seem like a weird topic, but there is a reason; a friend on another forum started a sexuality in film thread, and was taking recommendations as to what to write about. I half-seriously suggested Batman Returns, and she said she'd write about it, but abandoned the thread before she got to it. I didn't want to let all the potential go to waste, so I started doing it myself, and I'll be posting my analysis here as well

 

[Smalley]

Part 1

​

Introduction
​

Despite disbelief from certain posters on the other forum after I suggested this film, Batman Returns isn't just another silly, trivial comic book adaption, but rather, is a surprisingly dark, twisted expression of director Tim Burton/screenwriter Daniel Waters' psyches (and is also far more interesting than the original), and it includes a good amount of sexual expression within its dark world, not just from the obvious source of Michelle Pfeiffer's Catwoman, but from many other places as well. With this analysis, I hope to explain what I think these expressions all mean, both in the context of the film and for the real world, provoke discussion and debate about my interpretations, as well as to generally entertain (after all, I do love this movie t: ). Hope you guys enjoy!

 

[JohnnyGobbs]

More please Smalley!

Also, when will you be updating from Part 11 onwards in 'The Sexuality in Film' forum?

It's been great reading your commentary so far, and it would be cool to exchange opinions on this thread.

 

[Smalley]

(special thanks to this Superior Pics thread for the screen caps!!!)​

Part 2

A Tale Of Two Dames​

The first true expression of sexuality in Batman Returns happens when an air-headed, blond-haired, blue-eyed bombshell called the "Ice Princess" participates in Gotham City's "lighting of the tree ceremony", an annual Christmas tradition. She gets the gathered crowd's attention by talking over a speaker system, then pointlessly sheds a winter coat to reveal her hourglass figure clad in a sash and a sort of fur-trimmed version of the Playboy Bunny suit, a vision of stereotypical beauty pageant beauty if there ever was one. Despite how obvious it is that anyone wearing such an outfit while it's snowing outside would be freezing to death on their exposed areas, the Ice "Princess" seems to grin and bear this, and her little stripshow is met with appreciative catcalls from the crowd, which the Princess herself appreciates, obviously having expected and accepted the shallow objectification that comes with her role. After all, if it gets more men to come to the ceremony and gets the mayor of Gotham City more attention, what's a little debasing yourself, right?

A short while later, we meet Selina Kyle, secretary for the patriarchal business mogul Max Schreck, and the contrast between her and the Ice Princess is vast (which should be obvious even just looking at those screencaps). While both women have the same idealized, blond hair & blue eyes combo, Selina seems to have neglected the former, letting it go crazy with frizz & curls, and obscures the latter behind a pair of dated, nerdy, horn-rimmed glasses. Clothes-wise, she's wearing a very drab, very unflattering, brown blouse & skirt combo, but anyway, her appearance really shouldn't matter, as it's obvious that she's a dedicated, helpful (if just a bit forgetful) worker. That's all she should really need to be, but that evidently isn't enough for her boss, or for the men meeting with him.

When Selina goes to pour Max some coffee, being careful not to block his view of the Mayor (who's attending the meeting), she slightly jangles the pot against his cup, causing him to look on in annoyance. Later, when the Mayor turns down Max's request to fast-track a new power plant, Selina timidly speaks up with a "suggestion" in mind, and is met with steely stares and dead silence from all the men in the room. Max then breaks the silence when he declares "I'm afraid we haven't properly house-broken Ms. Kyle. [cat reference, lolz] In the plus column though... she makes a helluva cup of coffee.".

This comment is met with derisive laughter by all of the men in the room, even the Mayor (the leader of Gotham!), and though Selina tries to play along and pretend she finds this funny as well, she reveals her true feelings once she's alone in the room, mocking her own comment in a silly voice, and calling herself a "stupid corndog" multiple times, revealing that she has internally bought into Schreck's belief that secretaries should be seen and not heard, even when they have something useful to contribute.


Part 2 continued next, with some thematic analysis...

 

[Smalley]

More please Smalley!

Also, when will you be updating from Part 11 onwards in 'The Sexuality in Film' forum?

It's been great reading your commentary so far, and it would be cool to exchange opinions on this thread.

It's not a sexuality in film forum, just a sexuality in film thread, and I'll update it whenever I get the next entry written up It's hard to balance doing that, my other Internet stuff, and school/miscellaneous stuff all at the same time, but I'm trying...

 

[Smalley]

Part 2.5


A Tale Of Two Dames (cont.)​

Most people don't sense the connection between the two previous scenes (the fact that a few perfunctory moments with Alfred & The Penguin separating them doesn't help), but I think that Burton staged them in order to help us understand exactly what Selina is struggling against in Gotham City, where one woman gets lauded for providing needless, self-debasing eye candy, while another who's been toiling away as a well-meaning secretary is looked down upon, insulted, and dismissed out-of-hand as being out of her "proper" place if she dares speak in the presence of men.

We see the two women fulfilling polar opposite gender roles, with the Ice Princess playing the classic role of a ditzy, shallow, well-loved beauty queen, fitting a 50's-era misogynist's view of what women should act and look like right down to her pearly-whites, while Selina plays the role of a dowdy, timid, trod-upon secretary. Both roles lead to miseries for the women later on in the film, and I feel that Daniel Waters is setting up the theme of moderation in sexuality being healthy here, with the Ice Princess's overriding focus on sex appeal leading to a preventable tragedy (I'll explain), and Selina's repression of her more sexual side also leading to a repression of her more assertive side, which again, only leads to tragedy. This isn't even the end of her repression; just wait 'til you see her apartment!

Batman Returns, though almost twenty years old now, and with many visual throwbacks to even earlier times (what with the 1940's-looking cars, etc.), still manages to raise potential questions about the state of gender relations in modern America; do we place too much of an importance on women looking beautiful and sexy? Do we view men as the natural power-holders and women as just their underlings (if even that)? Do we disrespect or disregard those women who try to make a living off of something besides their face/body, who try to pull themselves up by the bootstraps, so to speak? With our overly-sexualized images of women everywhere, are we so different from the sexist Gotham depicted in this far-out, *ucked-up Burton fairytale? Or are we even worse than that? Food for thought.

Notes: Batman Returns' shooting script originally said nothing about the Ice Princess stripping off a winter coat first, nor anything about her receiving catcalls, which leads me to believe it may have been a Burton decision to put that in the movie, further highlighting the discrepancy between the Ice Princess and Selina's behavior. Additionally, while the film's Chip Schreck (Max's son) was never cruel to Selina, in the script, he says to her: "Y'know, it's not the caffeine that buzzes us - it's the obedience.", to which Selina responds "Shut up, Chip" after he's out of the room, but still calls herself a corndog anyway. This would've been the first sign of Selina's dueling personalities, and I think Burton should've left these lines in, but whatever; on to the next part!

 

[The Joker]

I can't wait until you get to the scene where The Penguin proposes to Catwoman lol.

 

[Smalley]

Part 3

What's-Her-Name​

After Max has left his building to go deliver a speech to the crowd, Selina remembers that she forgot to hand him the speech notes, an oversight which makes Max say to Chip "Forgot my speech; remind me to take it out on... what's-her-name", again, showing his lack of respect for Selina. The Penguin's circus gang soon attacks, and Selina, hurrying down to hand Schreck the notes, ends up caught in the fray. Batman arrives to to save the day (er, night), and finds Selina has been taken hostage by a clown-thug holding a taser to her neck. After a tense stand-off, Batman takes the clown down, leaving Selina to awkwardly (and futilely) fawn over her rescuer, remarking "Wow... the Batman. ...or is it just Batman? [Batman silently stalks away] Your choice, of course!".

After he's left, Selina starts gathering up the speech notes that she dropped, and remarks "Well, that was... very brief. Just like all the men in my life. ...what men? Well... then again there's you [the clown-thug], but... you need therapy.". The "what men?" part is particularly interesting, as it's later revealed that Selina has a boyfriend, one that she seems pretty interested in, even. I guess my interpretation of the "what men?" part is that Selina is sick of men either having authority over her (Schreck, the clown-thug, Batman) or being weak (her boyfriend, who I'll explain about later). I think a "real man" for Selina is an equal, which is something she does desire deep down, but she lacks the self-confidence and courage needed to seek one out, leaving her with a sexist boss and an endlessly-revolving door of loser boyfriends. She has fooled herself into thinking that she wants the latter (any kind of boyfriend will do) because she wants to become a domestic housewife, something that Gotham society tells her she should be.

Anyway, before Selina's gathered up the notes, the clown's taser, still in his unconscious grip, catches her eye, and she inspects it, looks around to make sure that the coast is clear, then zaps him as a bit of curiosity/amusement/revenge, stifling a laugh as his body convulses. This hints at a more assertive, vengeful side of Selina, which definitely comes into play later in the film.

As for a deeper analysis of this scene, here we see Selina playing the classic (and outdated) role of a damsel-in-distress, complete with helpless screaming, while Batman plays the masculine, taciturn, hero-to-the-rescue part to a hilt. However, the more assertive Selina that briefly pops up here shows a different person lurking underneath the surface, one that's itching to break Kyle out of current gender roles, both the major one as an excessively servile secretary, and the more minor one as a helpless damsel-in-distress in need of a male rescuer.

And as much as I hate to admit it, Batman probably had somewhat of a role in Selina's eventual transformation into Catwoman, because of his cold silence to her hero worship. Now, it isn't like I just expected him to forget about Penguin's thugs and start flirting with Selina right then and there, but the least he could do would be to at least ask if she was alright. You know, like: Didn't get tasered any, did you? Hit by some stray debris? Currently undergoing a terror-related heart attack? You know, something along those lines. I'm not saying Batman is being as bad to Selina as Max had been, but he does kind of look like a jerk in this scene, and gives Selina the impression that there's another man out there who looks down upon her. Tsk-tsk Batsies.

Notes: In the shooting script, Batman does respond to Selina:

"Batman finds himself staring at the lovely young woman. For a moment, time freezes.

BATMAN
Gotta go."

Again, I think they should've left this in, but I guess Burton just wanted to add on to Selina's misery. He also should've left in the part where Selina leaves herself Post-It reminders telling herself to shut up. Then again, Burton does make Max say "what's-her-name" in the film instead of "Selina", which gets the point across more effectively, and he did take out that out-of-place part in the script where Selina gives the clown the coup-de-grace by kicking him in the knee (complete with a bad-ass one-liner beforehand), and he did take out some awkward comic relief lines, so I guess I'll take the good with the bad here.

 

[Smalley]

Part 4

Honey I'm Home
​

Selina arrives back at her run-down, traintracks-side apartment with a cry of "Honey, I'm home!", followed by a dejected response of "Ohh, I forgot; I'm not married.", which I suspect is a personal running joke with her. Her use of it, and the disappointment evident in her voice, reveals her on-the-surface desire to become Gotham City's "ideal woman", one who gets married young, stays at home all the time, and raises the kids full-time, or, barring that extreme, at least she wishes to become dependent on a husband, the way I figure it. The disappointment in Selina's voice also reveals her disappointment with herself that she hasn't gotten married yet, so Selina's self-esteem issues aren't just patriarchal-oppression related, but come from within her as well, as she tries (and fails) to be what society (including both men and women alike) has told her she should be.

All around Selina's apartment are signs of an arrested development, a grown woman still trying to be a little girl: paisley pink walls, furniture, and appliances, a little pink sign that says "Hello There", stuffed animals, miniature figurines, and a doll house all inhabit her overly meek apartment, and demonstrates more sexual repression on her part, probably done so in order to keep her more assertive side down.

Selina's comment to "Miss Kitty", her pet cat, also reveals sexual repression on her part; after Ms. Kitty climbs through the open apartment window, Selina says "Miss Kitty! Back from more sexual escapades you refuse to share?". Even though this comment is obviously a joke on Selina's part, I believe that her decision to use it shows an underlying jealousy of more sexually-liberated creatures, even if they happen to be a pet cat, which may offer some insight as to why Selina chooses to become "Catwoman" later on. Anyway, Miss Kitty meows again, and Selina again shows low self-esteem by interpreting the meow with "What? 'How can anyone be so pathetic'?", showing that, even with her animals, Selina automatically takes up an inferior role.

We hear Selina's mother has left a nagging message on the answering machine, something to which Selina's evidently accustomed to, and probably also a factor in her arrested state of girlishness. Selina's mom doesn't provide any sort of morale boost, as she criticizes her daughter for "languishing in Gotham City as a lowly secretary", to which Selina responds "Lowly assistant", obviously trying to pretend that her lot in life is better than it truly is, but still retaining the "lowly" part, revealing that she does, in fact, agree with mom. We then see Selina receiving a message from her nameless off-screen boyfriend where he says that, regarding a Christmas "getaway" that they'd planned, he would be going alone, since a "Dr. Shaw" told him that he needs to be "his own person" and not an "appendage".

 

[Smalley]

Part 4.5

Honey I'm Home (cont.)​

The boyfriend's use of feel-good, early 90's psychobabble here brings to my mind the image of a person with low self-esteem, one who's afraid to really commit to a serious relationship. In Selina's words, this was probably just a "very brief" relationship with a non-real man, one who's just like all her past boyfriends, and while Selina does initially seem happy to be hearing from him, that's probably just because she has developed an on-the-surface dependency on men, and was hoping a stable relationship with the boyfriend could eventually allow her to be a housewife. Of course, she could've just looked happy because she was hoping to get away from the rat race (and Schreck) for a little while on this "Christmas getaway", who knows.

Selina sees that she has yet more phone messages waiting, sees that it's from Schreck's business, and assumes that it's from the head honcho himself. She says "Guess I should've let him win that last racquetball game", which shows that she's gotten used to petty retributions from Max (and also possibly hints at a more aggressive, athletic side of Selina; admittedly, Max does look like he's pretty old, but still...). Anyway, instead of being from Schreck, it's a recorded ad for "new Gotham Lady Perfume", which says that the perfume "makes women feel like women... and the men have no complaints either", a comment which makes Selina cut the message off in disgust, having obviously had enough of men for one night.

Finally, the last message is one Selina left reminding herself to pick up a file for an upcoming meeting between Schreck and Bruce Wayne, again showing her habitual forgetfulness. Selina calls herself a stupid corndog again, and gets up to head back to the office.

I'd like to point out how Selina starts fiddling with her stolen taser as she listens to the perfume ad, and I can just sense the two different sides of her coming into conflict at that moment, with her imagining all the men in her life she'd like to use the taser on while sitting in her girly apartment, next to a pink telephone and a bunch of stuffed animals, and listening to a sexist ad from her boss's company.

Notes: In the script, it talks about there being childhood pictures of a "younger, happier Selina" in the apartment, showing her on a trampoline, a horse, and a mountain face, possibly hinting at a childhood spent in the countryside, and again hinting at a more adventurous, athletic side of Selina. There's also an additional message on her machine...

"GRUFF WOMAN
Selina... we've missed you at the rape prevention class... it's not enough to master martial arts..."

...which explains how her Catwoman personae can fight so well. Then again, it is kind of cool to think Catwoman's incredible fighting ability simply comes from her new-found rage at the world, so it's not a big loss.

 

[Visceral]

Well done sir, a thinking thread, best thread i have seen in awhile.

I also want to add that the sexuality doesn't just permeate through Batman returns but through burton's first film as well. there batman is depicted as a fascist and a rapist who believes himself outside of societies rules. The scene where batman takes the film from vicki vale is one that comes instantly to mind, vale had her film in her blouse mind you.

I have also heard that vicki was originally scripted to be a femme fatale, which you might already know.

Its interesting to think, one very big difference between burton and Nolans batman is that Nolan's is concerned with an objective view of justice, one that exists outside of himself, even if he is breaking that in order to achieve it. Burton's Batman has done away with objective meaning and is at complete ease with the meaninglessness of his own subjective view of justice.

Anyways, more please I beg of you

 

[jaymes_e06]

I need to sub this because I think what your doing is brilliant.

 

[Smalley]

Part 5

So Much Yummier​

Long story short (because the scene has little to do with sexuality & gender roles that I haven't already gone over), Selina opens up "protected files" back at the office, finds out that Max's proposed "power plant" will really be sucking power out of Gotham, so Max decides to get rid of the evidence by pushing Selina out of the top floor window. She falls through some awnings (which slows her fall) and lands on the snow, and a whole bunch of cats (including Miss Kitty) come along to give her this sort of feline resuscitation.

Selina goes back into her apartment with blood on her face, again saying her running joke, but this time in a hushed, haunted, zombie-like tone of voice. In a trance, she sloppily drops her keys and jacket on the floor, then slowly walks over and turns on her lamp, obviously knocks it over as she walks past. She goes to the fridge to get out a carton of milk for Miss Kitty, as she did before, but this time, she overfills the bowls, sending milk on to the floor, then drinks straight from the carton, letting it run down her face, an attempt to imitate Miss Kitty, me thinks. Operating purely on routine now, Selina starts playing her new phone messages, of which are two(!) from her mom nagging her to call back. She then hears another sexist ad for Gotham Lady Perfume, which says that "one whiff of this at the office and your boss will be asking you to stay after work, for a candlelight dinner for two".

This naturally gets Selina upset, and the coup-de-grace comes when the voice says "Gotham Lady Perfume: exclusively at Schreck's department stores". Hearing the name of the man who disrespected and almost killed her seems to be the match that lights Selina's fuse, as she lets out a blood-curdling scream and throws the milk carton at the answering machine, then rips it out of the wall. Selina then goes on a huge rampage against her everything girly in her apartment, rebelling against her former, sexually-repressed, push-over self, the one that allowed her to almost get murdered; while the cats look onward, she stabs her stuffed animals and puts them through a shredder, smashes up many things with a frying pan, spray paints the walls, girly clothes, and her doll house black, and smashes her "Hello There" sign into saying "Hell Here", showing the transition between Selina's attitude and her forthcoming Catwoman personae (as well as hints at her new, inner emotional state).

It's not all rage though, as Selina obviously takes some pleasure in this lashing out at her former self, and the climax of it comes when she finds a long leather jacket hiding in her closet, which she combines with her seamstress skills (which she was previously using to make a quilt, heh) to make new clothes. We witness some of this process, but not all, as Burton's obviously saving the big reveal of Selina's new personality/costume for later, but at the end of the scene, we do see a leather-clad figure stretching and slinking about in front of a window, then, to a gathered audience of cats, a low, throat-y, sultry voice saying "I don't know about you Miss Kitty, but I feel... so much yummier".

The hidden side of Selina finally comes to the surface here, but I think it was unhealthily warped on its way out due to Schreck's murder attempt, making her go from one extreme to the other, from sex-less to sex-defined, from overly-dominated to overly-dominating, and we'll see a more and more conflicted Selina/Catwoman as the movie wears on. It is good that she's not just gonna let herself be pushed around by men anymore, but she still seems to get more and more unstable as the film goes on, so I'm not sure how good of a trade-off it is.

Obviously, the cat-rescue had a major impact on her, as well as her idea of "Miss Kitty" being a sexually-liberated creature, as she starts to emulate her cats through drinking the milk and making her new outfit/personae, and she shows a hint of her newly-liberated self though her new, intentionally-sexy voice. Selina also isn't just rebelling against the sexism and misogyny represented by men like Schreck here, but also against anyone who's ever kept her down, even her mom, and we'll see more of her all-encompassing rage at men and women alike soon.

Note: In the script, Chip Schreck witnesses Selina's defenestration by Max, but plays along with his dad and keeps it quiet, which further demonstrates what Selina's fighting against in Gotham. Burton shoulda left it in.

 

[Smalley]

Well done sir, a thinking thread, best thread i have seen in awhile.

I also want to add that the sexuality doesn't just permeate through Batman returns but through burton's first film as well. there batman is depicted as a fascist and a rapist who believes himself outside of societies rules. The scene where batman takes the film from vicki vale is one that comes instantly to mind, vale had her film in her blouse mind you.

I have also heard that vicki was originally scripted to be a femme fatale, which you might already know.

Its interesting to think, one very big difference between burton and Nolans batman is that Nolan's is concerned with an objective view of justice, one that exists outside of himself, even if he is breaking that in order to achieve it. Burton's Batman has done away with objective meaning and is at complete ease with the meaninglessness of his own subjective view of justice.

Anyways, more please I beg of you

Thanks! And I know there is sexuality in '89, but I don't like that movie, so I won't be writing about it, probably. Barring any complications, I should be able to update this once a day until the end...

I need to sub this because I think what your doing is brilliant.

Thank you

 

[JohnnyGobbs]

Smalley, I don't know if you like the movie and I know it's got nothing to do with comic-books, but for your sexuality in film thread I think the movie 'Heathers' would make a great subject. It's written by Daniel Waters, the writer of Batman Returns, and if you think about it it shares a lot of the same themes and male/female characterisations. Veronica is basically Selina, JD is an equally malicious, albeit much prettier version of The Penguin, the Heathers share some similarities with the female supporting characters in Batman Returns (i.e. The Ice Princess, and 'Volunteer Bimbo' etc), and the supporting male characters are as misogynist as Max Shreck and his son, Chip (they are even portrayed as 'date-rapists).

 

[Visceral]

Another thing I caught, when she is spray painting the doll house black, she puts some real focus on the bedroom.

I also want to just say that my favorite line in the whole movie is when Shreck quips, nothing surprises me chip,.... except your late mother.

 

[Smalley]

Smalley, I don't know if you like the movie and I know it's got nothing to do with comic-books, but for your sexuality in film thread I think the movie 'Heathers' would make a great subject. It's written by Daniel Waters, the writer of Batman Returns, and if you think about it it shares a lot of the same themes and male/female characterisations. Veronica is basically Selina, JD is an equally malicious, albeit much prettier version of The Penguin, the Heathers share some similarities with the female supporting characters in Batman Returns (i.e. The Ice Princess, and 'Volunteer Bimbo' etc), and the supporting male characters are as misogynist as Max Shreck and his son, Chip (they are even portrayed as 'date-rapists).

I haven't seen it yet, but I'll think about it.

I also want to just say that my favorite line in the whole movie is when Shreck quips, nothing surprises me chip,.... except your late mother.

I've always wondered what that line meant; did Schreck kill his wife because she found out something she shouldn't have, like Selina??

 

[Smalley]

Part 6

Hear Me Roar​

After some scenes dealing with The Penguin (and not really with any sexuality), we see a nameless woman walking alone through Gotham being apprehended in an alley by a mugger/rapist (I really don't know which, he's stopped before he can really do anything). Stopped by who, you ask? By Catwoman, of course; we see her new personality/costume in all their glory, as Selina has constructed a form-hugging, shiny, full-body (complete with face mask and high heels) black PVC catsuit that just screams "dominatrix", with bright-white stitches all throughout it, signifying that, just as Selina constructed a new outfit from her old clothing, Catwoman is Selina's newly-liberated personality (both sexually and otherwise), constructed from the scraps of her old life.

Attitude-wise, Catwoman is the absolute complete opposite of pre-defenestration Selina, as she's extremely aggressive and sex-defined, which we both hear when she first challenges the mugger/rapist (with a double-entendre to boot!): "I just love a big, strong man who's not afraid to show it with someone half his size. [the mugger/rapist turns to fight her] Be gentle, it's my first time.". The mugger/rapist evidently wasn't expecting Catwoman to know how to fight (possibly because of her gender), and he's completely owned by her vicious kick-boxing skills, then owned some more when she takes out her "claws" (various sewing needles that she's placed over her fingers) and scratches all over his face, then she finally punches him out cold.

The mugger/rapist's victim tries to thank Catwoman for saving her, but Catwoman silences her by abruptly placing a gloved hand over her mouth, and viciously criticizing her with: "You make it so easy, don't you? Always waiting for some Batman to save you? [Catwoman leans in closer] I am Catwoman... hear me roar.". She (and the scene) then exit when she rapid-fire backflips all the way out of the alley, again showing her new-found aggression.

In this scene, we see a repeat of the helpless, damsel-in-distress archetype that we saw in the Penguin gang-attack scene, only this time, it is Selina who acts as the rescuer. She seems to be trying to get a vicarious vengeance against the clown who took her hostage earlier, as she's particularly brutal attacking the mugger/rapist, unlike the way Batman was, who only attacked the clown hard enough to knock him out. Selina on the other hand actually seems to be trying to disfigure her opponent, as a sort of enraged female alternative to Batman.

Though Catwoman has obviously been inspired by the Dark Knight's mode-of-operation, there's no trying to be a hero here, as she seems to be "rescuing" the woman just so she can savagely beat up "a big, strong man", as well as browbeat the victim. She's almost as hard on the woman as she was on the criminal, since she sees in the victim the same sort of helplessness, the same female passiveness that allowed her former self to be walked on all over by men. I don't view the "I am Catwoman, hear me roar" declaration as Selina trying to encourage the victim to be more like her, but rather, is establishing her complete opposition to the helplessness represented by the victim, a helplessness which helps keep Batman in business, so to speak.

Finally, the "Always waiting for some Batman" line is particularly interesting, as it's both a criticism of the victim's helplessness and Selina's helplessness while she was being held hostage by the clown, as she just waited for Batman to come along and save her, and it's extremely interesting to watch her switch roles this time. Here, there's no Batman coming to save the day, nor no real rescue for the victim once Catwoman has turned on her.

Note: The "some Batman" line probably would've worked better if they'd kept the part from the script where the victim tries calling out for Batman during the attack, but oh well.

 

[Visceral]

I've always wondered what that line meant; did Schreck kill his wife because she found out something she shouldn't have, like Selina??

If I had to guess? He killed her at her attempt to take away his spoiled dumbass brute of a son.

Burton can be super fun though. I love how chip kinda just shrugs whatever you say dad.

 

[Smalley]

Part 7

Couldn't You Just Die​

We finally get to the meeting between Schreck and Bruce about the proposed power plant, minus the presence of Selina (as Max still thinks she's dead), and it isn't going well, as Max is almost ready to throw Wayne out his office (hopefully, not the same way he did with Selina). But, before this can happen, Selina comes confidently striding into the conference room, a speechless Chip behind her and a dumb-struck Bruce ahead, who is cut off in mid-sentence by her mere appearance. Max initially doesn't see her, but is similarly struck speechless once he turns around and sees his secretary alive and well, and clad in a much more stylish outfit and sans-glasses, though the bandages on her hand and forehead do hurt the overall look a bit. Selina's new post-murder attempt personality matches her more confident appearance, as she's much more assertive, though not as aggressive as Catwoman is, since she does want to keep her secret identity a secret, and leave her nights open for violent Catwoman shenanigans.

Still, Selina is far more take-charge than she was before, as she's used her anger at being abused by men to break out of her previous, timid gender role, and create a new, dominating one for herself, and she's just striking men mute left and right with it. She responds to Max's disbelieving "Selina....... Selina, Selina-" with a ball-breaking "That's my name Maximillions, don't wear it out or I'll make you buy me a new one", an assertive challenge that she never would've dared to make before, as well a veiled reveal of her willingness to blackmail Schreck with the truth. We see Selina is getting some early revenge on Max here by flipping their positions, with her in the dominant role and him being the chided one, which is antithetical to what they (and Gotham as a whole) believed were the proper gender roles (dominating man and subservient woman).

Anyway, after Max awkwardly introduces Bruce Wayne to her, Bruce remembers that they've already met, a reference to when Batman saved her from the clown. Selina questions Bruce's belief that they've met, however (since she doesn't know he was Batman), and they have the following exchange:

"BRUCE
Oh, I'm sorry. You know what, I mistook me for somebody else, sorry.
SELINA
You mean mistook me.
BRUCE
I mistook me- yeah yeah, that's what I- isn't that what I said?
SELINA
(amused)
No, I don't think so...

This is the first sign of Bruce being confused as to what his true identity is, which, along with Selina's previously hinted-at dueling personalities (which only get more conflicted as the film goes on), offers us some early insight as to why the two are inexorably drawn to each other, but more on that later.

 

[Smalley]

Part 7.5

Couldn't You Just Die (cont.)​

Bruce inquires about the bandage on Selina's forehead, and Max tries in vain to re-assert his dominance over her by asking her "Did you injure yourself... on that ski slope? Is that why you cut short your vacation... came back?" However, Selina just completely ignores Max's attempt at covering his own hide in front of Bruce, and instead, goes off on this ramble: "You know, it's... a blur? I-I mean, not complete amnesia, I-I-I-I remember Sister Mary-Margaret puking in church, and Becky Riley saying it was morning sickness, and I remember the time I forgot to wear my underpants to school, and the name of the boy who noticed was Ricky Friedburg. [she smiles at this memory, then frowns] He's dead now. But last night? Complete blur. Couldn't you just die?".

Both Max and Bruce's mouths hang wide open during this little tangent, and Max, having been further put in the subservient position by Selina's assertiveness and her potential to blackmail him, finally breaks the silence by awkwardly begging her not to spill the beans with "Selina, please.... show out Mr. Wayne.", to which she cheerfully replies "With pleasure!". Bruce, by now obviously infatuated with Selina, almost forgets his coat on the way out, and she has to remind him to go get it, showing that, instead of constantly forgetting things, she's now making other people forget through sheer force of her personality.

On their way to the elevator, Selina actually trashes Schreck (and very subtly comes on to Bruce) by telling him "You don't seem like the type who does business with Mr. Schreck" (which he isn't), to which Bruce responds "You don't seem like the type who takes order from him" (putting down Schreck and lifting up Selina), and she isn't that type, not anymore at least. She says it's a "long story", he says he could he free up some time, she says that she's "listed", and he says that "he's tempted" before the elevator doors close on him. Here, Selina's increased confidence leads her to pursue a potential relationship with a big mogul like Bruce Wayne, whereas the past Selina would've just been intimidated and remained quiet in his presence, and would've waited for another loser, low self-esteem boyfriend to come along.

Regarding Selina's rant, I don't think the seeming randomness of it is a sign of a new mental instability in her (though they'll be plenty of that later on), but rather, is her intentionally refusing to obey Max and play along with his "ski slope" story, and torturing him (so to speak) by changing the subject, pretending like she doesn't remember what happened to her, and drawing things out with her reminiscing, while also dropping subtle hints about what really happened with the lines about death (again, threatening blackmail).

 

[JohnnyGobbs]

If I had to guess? He killed her at her attempt to take away his spoiled dumbass brute of a son.

Burton can be super fun though. I love how chip kinda just shrugs whatever you say dad.

Great post Visceral. Chip indeed came across as a 'spoiled dumbass brute', the kind of bullying fratboy who lives off his family's wealth without making a positive contribution to society.

As for Mrs Shreck's death, I always imagined that Max married into money and that he probably killed his wife when she found out what he was really like and was doing to the city, since he would have lost his company. Also, like you suggest, she would have deprived him of his precious 'legacy', Chip.

 

[Smalley]

Part 8

"Mayor Cobblepot"​

Finally, we get a scene involving The Penguin (aka Oswald Cobblepot) and sexuality. Now, I'm not going to explain his whole backstory in this movie, so you'll need to watch it all yourself to find out, but anyway, Max takes The Penguin to a "Penguin-for-Mayor" campaign headquarters that he's set up without the latter's knowledge. He hopes to recall the current Mayor and replace him with Penguin, which will allow the fast-tracking of his new not-power plant.

Max introduces The Penguin to image consultants "Jen and Josh", and when Jen introduces herself, The Penguin is seized with lust for her, making rapid, breath-y grunts (it sounds like he's having sex), leering at her, and getting closer and closer. Jen is naturally weirded out by all this, and the fact that Penguin seems ready to attack when she tries to take away the raw fish that he's eating finally convinces her to give up.

Penguin's lustful reactions here aren't because he's never seen a woman before; some of the members of his gang are women, and he's lived with them most of his life, but their relationship is very family-like (his gang basically parented him since he was a young freakshow attraction in the circus, and he is never seen lusting after any of the female members, but treats them the same way he does the men). I also don't think his reactions are because Jen is incredibly attractive (no offense to her), but rather, because The Penguin has never really met a woman outside of his gang, and thus, has never had any kind of romantic relationship for the entire 33 years he's been alive.

Again, we see a character here having a warped obsession with sexuality, but as a result of a different kind of repression; instead of experiencing sexuality beforehand and then voluntarily repressing it (as Selina did), Oswald never even had the chance to experience sexuality with someone else, since, except for his gang, he has always been treated as a freak, right from the day he was born. So, after Max helps The Penguin become an icon to the people of Gotham, and he has his first real chance with a woman (as slim as that chance may be) it's kind of understandable that he acts as perverted as he does. I'm not saying he isn't still revolting, maybe even too much so, but it is understandable, and was probably Waters' point anyway when he wrote the character, as part of his "moderation in sexuality = healthy" subtext.

Later, after Jen's gone to take care of Josh after Penguin bit his nose (just watch it), The Penguin continues lusting after her and talking about what he'd like to do with her, as well as fantasizing about women throwing themselves at him once he's become Mayor, again hammering home the point that his desire for experiencing sexuality with women has become an obsession. Before the scene ends, Max promises Penguin that, as the Mayor, he'll get unlimited women throwing themselves at him, an incentive which, not surprisingly, finally convinces him to run, and the scene soon ends.

Spoiler

Insert a "it's hard to *********e with flippers" joke here.

 

[Smalley]

Part 9

Meow​

The next night, Catwoman comes out again to continue her campaign of vengeance against Schreck, this time, much more violently, as the increased aggressiveness of this new side of her personality escalates things. At the same time though, she's not rushing anything, and you can that she's really trying to stretch out the anticipation of her vengeance and enjoy it, as she merrily, leisurely skips over to Schreck's department store, mocks his Cat logo by mischievously putting her face behind it (as seen above), then cartwheels and jumps around once she's inside the store.

She eventually uncoils a whip that she's had wrapped around her suit (yet another dominatrix-y element) and whips the heads off of the pretty female mannequins in the store, again, lashing out at Gotham's ideal of what women "should be". She then starts smashing up glass cases, and two male security guards show up, leading to this exchange:

"SECURITY ONE
Who is she?

SECURITY TWO
What is she? I don't know whether to open fire or fall in love!

[The guards laugh, obviously not taking a threat from a woman seriously, then unholster their guns]

CATWOMAN
You poor guys... always confusing your pistols with your privates.

[Catwoman whips both the guns out of their hands]

SECURITY ONE
Don't hurt us lady, our take-home's than three-hundred?

CATWOMAN
You're overpaid! Hit the road!

[She drives them both off for good with another crack of her whip, then confidently, triumphantly wraps it back around her suit and turns her back to them, obviously pleased with her latest victory over men]".

It's interesting to see that the new S&M element of Catwoman's whip, something that, when taken with her dominatrix-y outfit, would usually bring to mind thoughts of sado-masochistic sexual pleasure, is instead is used by Catwoman in her quest for vengeance against her patriarchal boss, to attack Gotham's ideal of what women should be, and to bring men under a different kind of submission. It's obvious that the guards don't take Catwoman seriously because of her gender, and even mock her (shades of what happened to Selina at the Schreck/Mayor meeting) but all of that changes once she uses the whip to flex her power over them, and they run away, cowed by the same woman that they had looked down upon (shades of what happened to Schreck after Selina came back after the murder attempt).

 

[Visceral]

In the scene after Penguin bites that guys nose, Shreck and he have a conversation about power and lust which I find funny because it doesn't just happen in the middle of the room but around a water cooler.