The Amazing Spider-Man 2 Shailene Woodley COULD BE Mary Jane Watson.....in TASM3 - Part 3

[sl500jazz]

There's nothing wrong with MJ being sexy. However, it isn't the most important part of her character. There are other things about her character that are much more important.

Her looks shouldn't be seen as the end all be all, make or break for the character.

I think that a lot of people just feel as though Dunst was missing the right MJ "Spark". That includes the sexiness, the confidence, the feistiness, and the sharp wit.

I do believe that MJ's sexiness is an integral part of the classic 616 version of the character like it is with Felicia. That sexiness has a lot to do with her own insecurities. She's almost like Marilyn Monroe without the tragic ending. Whether or not that aspect of the character is boring or overdone is a separate issue and a matter of personal opinion.

Now, is that sexiness the end all be all of the character? Nope, there are other qualities that are more important, and I'm sure Webb can create a likable interpretation without it. Did Webb take that sexiness into consideration during the casting process? I'm sure he did, and I highly doubt that he'd recast Woodley based on inappropriate criticism of her looks. Whether or not Webb decides to lose that aspect of the character remains to be seen.

But, that doesn't take away from the fact that I'd be very happy if at some point Woodley and Webb played up the character's iconic man-eating sexiness.

I can understand your frustration Vid, but I am sure that you can understand where I am coming from as well. MJ's character has taken a beating by her interpretation in the Raimi trilogy, which is FAR from the way that she was depicted in the comics. I'm much more of a comic book loyalist when it comes to these kind of things. Regardless of which interpretations he's been pulling from, Webb gave us the iconic Spider-man, the iconic Gwen, and I'm hoping for the iconic MJ.

But I agree, having MJ be a 10/10 just for the sake of being a 10/10 and some fanboy eye candy is ridiculous.

My issue isn't even with the fact that people are saying they don't like/want Shailene because of her looks. That is expected. People do that with all the time with these castings, though not to this extent. My issue is with the fact that people are saying this because they have convinced themselves we are getting, or rather, are supposed to be getting a specific version of the character, when that is far from the case.

Really? I take more issue with those who blatantly criticize Shailene's looks. But expressing the opinion that Webb should go for one incarnation of the character over another is more than a fair debate. You're right in saying that Webb's Gwen was based off of TSSM Gwen (who was in turn predominantly based off of the classic 616 girl next door "Betty" version), but that actually adds to the argument of why Webb should go for more of a TSSM MJ (who was based off of the classic flirtatious 616 MJ, more so than Ultimate)

And she was cut because it didn't fit the story which is one reason I was wondering she was going to be introduced in this movie anyway becasue if you're trying to sell me on how much Peter loves Gwen and invest in their relationship, that next love interest shouldn't make an appearance yet, at least to me, that's how I feel.

Lol. That's a completely different argument. I think that they should introduce MJ before Gwen dies. Maybe just as a friend, but she should be affected by Gwen's death, and it should be something that brings her and Peter closer together and strengthens their friendship. But who knows...Maybe Gwen survives, and that'll happen in the 3rd film.

I've mostly read Spidey comics that take place after Gwen's death, so I know a lot more about MJ and quite honestly nothing about Gwen. What is she like in the 616 comics?

In the first couple of issues that Gwen's character was introduced, she was a spoiled vixen who played foolish games to try to win over Peter's affections. She was a girl that was used to getting her way, and was annoyed that she couldn't with Peter.

After MJ was introduced, Gwen's character was quickly and drastically changed into the watered-down sweet and simple intelligent girl next door that most people associate with the iconic version of the character. They changed her character to better show the differences between her and MJ -who was depicted as being a lively and flirtatious knockout party girl. The two characters became foils for one another : Gwen being the ingenue and MJ being the vamp a la Betty and Veronica of Archie comics. This was a similar dynamic that was used in TSSM. MJ was initially only supposed to be a threat to Gwen, who they intended Peter to end up with. After all, back in the 60's Gwen was just marriage material and MJ wasn't one for serious relationships. But Gwen quickly became a very flat character - a simple archetype- whose interests were just a reflection of Peter's. Many people preferred Mary Jane's vivacious and strong personality, and they couldn't do anything else with Gwen and Peter besides marriage...so Conway made the decision to kill her..and she became the perpetual victim and a symbol of "what could have been...".

 

[sl500jazz]

I thought I'd post this. I think it's a funny comparison and shows the characters' personalities.

 

[WarriorDreamer]

I don't know, but I think that Shailene was cast due to her award nominations and because she was friends with Andrew and Emma, I also don't know if she was friends with Marc, but if she was that would have helped. If that is their criteria for casting, that is their criteria. End of.

I guess the award nominations means that her name is bandied around more in higher up acting circles, therefore allowing more people to watch the movie. Some may argue that MJ should be more famous as a character, than the actor playing her, but others disagree.

I think sometimes directors and producers don't get every element/aspect of comic books correct. There were some things they got right in the Raimi series, there were some things they got wrong, the same with Marc Webb's origin. I guess one of the things they may get wrong is Mary Jane. It's unfortunate, but with other things gotten right (the costume for instance) there has to be a few things they get wrong. Maybe one day a director will finally get Mary Jane right, but then they might get something like Peter's character or the costume wrong. It's all about balance, fans aren't always going to get it all.

Regarding Mary Jane, I do prefer if she is more like 616, because I always like the idea of two different worlds coming together, or two different sides of humanity. In this case, science and theatrics. I think if Mary Jane is a geek, it doesn't work as well. But as I said, if they are going for Mary Jane being a geek, or an outsider or whatever, then that is just their interpretation which people can take or leave. Who knows what spin another director/ producers will put on the characters in another take down the road.... for example a live action TV series.

 

[SpideyFan866]

Or maybe they casted her because she's one of the most talented young actors out there?
Call me crazy, but I think that's what it is.

 

[Green Goblin]

Or maybe they casted her because she's one of the most talented young actors out there?
Call me crazy, but I think that's what it is.

Exactly, she's very talented. Her work in The Descendants was great IMO.

 

[SpideyFan866]

Exactly, she's very talented. Her work in The Descendants was great IMO.

She's also great in Spectacular Now.

 

[WarriorDreamer]

Or maybe they casted her because she's one of the most talented young actors out there?
Call me crazy, but I think that's what it is.

Yeah.... that would go along with the whole lots of award nominations thing. Not sure if you know, but people don't tend to get award nominations unless they're talented. Which is why I said that. Since many award noms kind of indicates talent.

 

[DigificWriter]

I haven't personally read the Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane comics, but based on what I know about them and the drawings I've seen from them, I think it's very possible that Webb and Co. drew inspiration for their take on MJ - which we'll still hopefully get to see Shailene bring to life come TASM3 - from that series, as well as from Ultimate Spider-Man.

WarriorDreamer's right about award nominations generally signifying exceptional talent, BTW, which speaks to just how big of a loss Shailene's departure would be to the franchise regardless of the size of her role in it overall. It'd be like having Jennifer Lawrence - also another phenomenally talented young actress with the awards to prove it - as part of your movie/franchise and then losing her to other commitments.

 

[SpideyFan866]

Yeah.... that would go along with the whole lots of award nominations thing. Not sure if you know, but people don't tend to get award nominations unless they're talented. Which is why I said that. Since many award noms kind of indicates talent.

No.

You kind of said it as if she got cast because she has awards, or rather, award nominations, not because she has talent.

There are very talented actresses out there without awards. Its just that someone with awards might be seen of higher value then someone without.

So there is indeed a difference between getting cast because just you have awards, and getting cast just because you have talent period.

Whether or not that thats what you meant is a different story.

 

[RemixNinja]

I wouldn't mind seeing Elizabeth Olsen cast as Mary Jane Watson. She got the acting chops and is very attractive.

 

[spund]

Nah, I don't enjoy getting into arguments (contrary to how it may look. lol).

Maybe I've missed the posts you've mentioned, but I imagine that they were few and far between.

As I've mentioned, I take exception not with people who may have issues with Shailene Woodley (Maybe they really hate her as an actress? Haven't seen anyone voice this), but rather their reasons why. Remember the storm of hatred and misogyny around the time that she was cast? Calling her ugly (when she's clearly not) and not "pretty enough" for the role? That's what I take exception with, when, as Phantasm said, she meets 99% of the criteria for playing the character. The rest is to do with unrealsitic expectations in comparing an actual woman to a comic book drawing. This is what I'm railing against. I think I've made that pretty clear.

As for the victims comment. I see more people attacking Shailene for not being a bombshell supermodel like the cartoon drawing in the comics, than people attacking those that don't care for her (for whatever reason). After all, remember the veritable ****storm of hatred and vitriol that erupted when set pictures of Shailene surfaced?

To be honest, I'm not as dead set against Shailene as MJ as people here might think I am. Sure, I've seen other options mentioned that I'd be more interested in seeing in the role, but I don't think Shailene is a horrible choice at all. She's pretty, she's no doubt an excellent actor, and she's very likeable.

My beef is that it's been such a hostile environment here toward anybody that suggests the possibility of anybody other than Shailene. I admit I've been on a little bit of a crusade against all these attackers, and I suppose I helped make it into a bigger issue than it needs to be.

I wasn't reading the forums when the pics came out, so I haven't seen all the Shailene hate that everyone's been referring to. I imagine it must've been pretty bad though. I certainly have never said anything bad about Shailene. My interest in other suggestions for the MJ role shouldn't be misconstrued as any kind of hate or criticism of her, I think she's awesome.

It actually does seem though that the posts are moving more toward a debate vibe rather than an "attack any different opinion" vibe, so that's cool. It makes for much more interesting reading, seeing all the different points that are brought up on both sides.

 

[DigificWriter]

If there's any air of hostility towards anti-Shailene sentiment, it's because we're tired of the backlash and this idea that MJ can only be portrayed one way and that only a certain type of actress can play the character.

 

[sl500jazz]

If there's any air of hostility towards anti-Shailene sentiment, it's because we're tired of the backlash and this idea that MJ can only be portrayed one way and that only a certain type of actress can play the character.

I don't understand that rationale for the air of hostility. From what I've seen on these boards recently, next to no one (except the rare few) has been anti-Shailene, and even expressing the opinion that you would prefer another actress to portray the character is not necessarily an anti-Shailene sentiment. No one here is bashing the actress, whom I happen to think is very attractive, talented, and will likely have a successful career with or without Spider-Man.

Personally, I care more about the depiction/incarnation of the character that Webb chooses (or creates) than the actress that portrays her. I'd prefer a 616 or TSSM inspired MJ with or without Shailene in the role, and if she ends up playing the character, I'm sure that she'll do a good job. Your'e correct in saying that MJ can be portrayed in many different ways (as evidenced by the Raimi trilogy), but as I've said before, arguing which version of the character you think would be best for Webb's franchise is a more than fair debate. Especially, when Webb's Gwen is predominantly 616 (TSSM) in characterization, and those characters go hand in hand. If people are tired of this debate, than they can easily stay away from the MJ threads. But I can assure you that there hasn't been any nastiness towards Shailene, and if there has, it's been shut down quickly.

Hostility and aggression helps no one. Hostility does not work when trying to prove a point (it has the opposite effect), nor does hostility work in censoring the opinions of others (once again, the opposite effect- it often makes people even more vocal).

..but facts are more than welcome.

 

[DigificWriter]

^ I don't know how long you've been posting here, but the vitriolic behavior has been toned down considerably since Shailene's casting was first announced, and those of us who had to endure it tend to come down hard against anyone who expresses an opinion that even remotely resembles the kind of hate-filled sentiments that the news of her casting generated at first.

 

[fuflipflops]

i wonder if the "ugly" comments will resurface with a vengeance now that shailene is getting a pixie cut to play a cancer patient in a new movie. god knows how some people for some reason can't stand women with short hair.

 

[Loki882]

Karen Gillan REALLY pulls off the bald look for her GOTG role, she looks great. Also, I prefer women with short hair.

 

[Spidey03]

I always wonder why Woodley haters do not bring Zooey Deschanel up as MJ...

Despite the fact she might be a little bit too old, she could be a lovely MJ. She could bring a different personality and tone as a female character compared to Emma's Gwen.

And the most important fact is that (at least in my view) these two ladies do not seem to establish somekind of "competition" or "rivalry". Not for Peter and most important: not among the fanbase, people who love/like Emma's Gwen could also love a Zooey MJ. It's no trade off.

 

[SpideyFan866]

I always wonder why Woodley haters do not bring Zooey Deschanel up as MJ...

Despite the fact she might be a little bit too old, she could be a lovely MJ. She could bring a different personality and tone as a female character compared to Emma's Gwen.

And the most important fact is that (at least in my view) these two ladies do not seem to establish somekind of "competition" or "rivalry". Not for Peter and most important: not among the fanbase, people who love/like Emma's Gwen could also love a Zooey MJ. It's no trade off.

People don't bring her up because she in no way, shape or form, is a fit for MJ. Or really any Spidey character outside of Betty Brant.

 

[JOE]

This.^

 

[UltimateWebhead]

Watched the Descendants again on HBO a coule of days ago. I would be all for Shailene should they choose to use her. A young, talented, pretty actress is the impression I get from watching her.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Webb obviously see something in shailene, its an interesting creative decision

 

[Spidey03]

because she in no way, shape or form, is a fit for MJ

the casting director has spoken...

 

[Nicko-Ray]

The synopsis for The Spectacular Now got me sold haha. I'll probably go see it sometime this month. Sounds a bit cliche but I wanna see Shailene.

 

[mayo23]

Shailene and the male lead, Miles Teller, won the Dramatic Acting Prize at Sundance for The Spectacular Now. Not to mention it's also been getting great reviews. Several of us have been saying this for months now, but hopefully the Spectacular Now proves that she has serious acting chops and is not just a one-hit wonder and that she has the ability offer a unique and compelling interpretation of MJ.

 

[jasmin]

The Spectacular Now was really amazing, they were the perfect awkward teenagers. And just like Shailene said, the sex scene felt really intimate and real. I felt like I was intruding by watching it.