Civil War Sharon carter A.K.A. Agent 13 - Part 1

[Voltron]

That's good to hear. I hope she joins the filming in Berlin too.

 

[Raiden]

I'm still holding out hope that EVC will go back to shoot more scenes for CW.

 

[Voltron]

AAAARRRRRGGGHHHH! It looks like EVC is headed to Berlin since here she is spotted at LAX airport with a Lufthansa employee!! Yes, please more Sharon!

 

[BullMcGiveny]

Nice to see, how long are they shooting in Germany, though? I'd thought they'd just about be wrapping up as D23 is in a week.

I've been seeing a lot of preemptive 'no room for romance' comments. Because of course there are those.

 

[Rote]

I've been seeing a lot of preemptive 'no room for romance' comments. Because of course there are those.

Moreover it will screw up Steggy because of Steve's vision in Ultron (Thanks, Whedon). Cap came to terms, that he couldnt' live with Peggy now, but he will be able to do it with her niece? That's a load of b*******.

 

[Minxie]

Nice to see, how long are they shooting in Germany, though? I'd thought they'd just about be wrapping up as D23 is in a week.

I've heard the 20th is the official last day - another person in the know on Twitter was saying they'll be there the rest of this week at least. They could still drop by D23 this weekend even if they had filming still to do, they did the same last year at sdcc, flying the cast out to San Diego from London and then back again for a bit more filming.

 

[sergeantbucky]

Moreover it will screw up Steggy because of Steve's vision in Ultron (Thanks, Whedon). Cap came to terms, that he couldnt' live with Peggy now, but he will be able to do it with her niece? That's a load of b*******.

Yeah it's....a little off-color, hooking up with your (dead) ex-flame's family member.

 

[Voltron]

Moreover it will screw up Steggy because of Steve's vision in Ultron (Thanks, Whedon). Cap came to terms, that he couldnt' live with Peggy now, but he will be able to do it with her niece? That's a load of b*******.

It won't screw up Steggy. We can have Steggy and Staron. It was great Steggy got to dance, although it was blink and you'll miss it. The vision was more about Cap's fear of being alone and a man out of time where he has confronted and accepted it.

Peggy got to move on 70 years ago and had a family, why can't Cap move on from Peggy he only kissed once. It'll be great is Staron happens like in the source material.

 

[Rote]

It won't screw up Steggy. We can have Steggy and Staron. It was great Steggy got to dance, although it was blink and you'll miss it. The vision was more about Cap's fear of being alone and a man out of time where he has confronted and accepted it.

Peggy got to move on 70 years ago and had a family, why can't Cap move on from Peggy he only kissed once. It'll be great is Staron happens like in the source material.

Oh no, it wasn't. People seem to be so confident in Steggy's true and enduring love, that they are missing the point of the vision: it's Steve's fear of war to be over. Remember what have Ultron said to him minutes before?

That's why Steve in vision sees glimpses of war in dance hall, this is why he isn't eager to dance with Peggy. She comes from his back, she asks if he's ready for their dance, and the answer is obvious: he's not. That's why he looks so frightened and silent and doesn't dance with her. And after that she calls him again: "The war is over, we can go home. Imagine it", and Steve can't. Everybody disappeared. Alone, for a second he imagines her dancing, twirling toward him, but can't imagine them kissing, she turns away from him.

The war is never over for him. That's why in the end he says to Stark: "Family, stability, the guy, who wanted all that, went into the ice 75 years ago. Someone else came out". And there is an interesting foreshadowing of that in TFA: Steve stares at Peggy more in those times, when after her shooting and he plays his suicide game with plane, when he knows, the war is over. He even doesn't try to find solution to survive, as she asks. And even in TWS he isn't upset that much after Zola telling him, that he died for nothing.
So he can't imagine life with Peggy, but can do it with her niece? That's total meh. We don't need another Brutasha in CW.

 

[Stevie2020]

Steve just needs to get laid. If it has to be Sharon, so be it. But...ewwwww.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

People are fine with interspecies shagging and people banging their bosses/superior officers but maybe hooking up with the niece of someone you kinda wanted to but were not really involved with is where the line is drawn. Odd.

So he can't imagine life with Peggy, but can do it with her niece? That's total meh. We don't need another Brutasha in CW.

M&M have been wanting to introduce Sharon and her relationship with Steve since 2011. If Whedon wanted to derail that before he left the franchise with no consideration, that's not on them. Whedon's foibles as middle-aged man/writer aren't on them, either.

 

[Rote]

M&M have been wanting to introduce Sharon and her relationship with Steve since 2011. If Whedon wanted to derail that before he left the franchise with no consideration, that's not on them.

If they really wanted it so much, they couldn't have introduced Staron to be more boring. Natasha has to tell Steve to call her, because he doesn't seem to be very much interested in it himself and he asks: "What's her name again?" And in Ultron after the year after TWS he didn't call her. And why did they initially plan Natasha+Steve then? And there is only one Cap's film left. It will be the most terrible couple of the MCU on the ruins of good memory of Steggy.

 

[RedRose]

People are fine with interspecies shagging and people banging their bosses/superior officers but maybe hooking up with the niece of someone you kinda wanted to but were not really involved with is where the line is drawn. Odd.

Lolllll best response ever.

 

[Voltron]

Oh no, it wasn't. People seem to be so confident in Steggy's true and enduring love, that they are missing the point of the vision: it's Steve's fear of war to be over. Remember what have Ultron said to him minutes before?

That's why Steve in vision sees glimpses of war in dance hall, this is why he isn't eager to dance with Peggy. She comes from his back, she asks if he's ready for their dance, and the answer is obvious: he's not. That's why he looks so frightened and silent and doesn't dance with her. And after that she calls him again: "The war is over, we can go home. Imagine it", and Steve can't. Everybody disappeared. Alone, for a second he imagines her dancing, twirling toward him, but can't imagine them kissing, she turns away from him.

The war is never over for him. That's why in the end he says to Stark: "Family, stability, the guy, who wanted all that, went into the ice 75 years ago. Someone else came out". And there is an interesting foreshadowing of that in TFA: Steve stares at Peggy more in those times, when after her shooting and he plays his suicide game with plane, when he knows, the war is over. He even doesn't try to find solution to survive, as she asks. And even in TWS he isn't upset that much after Zola telling him, that he died for nothing.
So he can't imagine life with Peggy, but can do it with her niece? That's total meh. We don't need another Brutasha in CW.

Yeah that too, Steve doesn't know what to do with himself if his not fighting for justice since being Captain America is his purpose.

Cap was romantically in love with Peggy, but that love is more platonic now. Peggy even said to Cap that she has lived her life and Cap should go out and live his; Peggy has clearly moved on.

Staron won't be Brutasha since seeds were planted in TWS for a budding romance, I mean Cap even asked out Sharon whereas Brutasha came out of nowhere and the Hulk tried to kill Nat in the Avengers.

If they really wanted it so much, they couldn't have introduced Staron to be more boring. Natasha has to tell Steve to call her, because he doesn't seem to be very much interested in it himself and he asks: "What's her name again?" And in Ultron after the year after TWS he didn't call her. And why did they initially plan Natasha+Steve then? And there is only one Cap's film left. It will be the most terrible couple of the MCU on the ruins of good memory of Steggy.

He said that bc he was being coy and didn't want to seem too eager and it's for the audience to know that Kate is really Sharon. We'll find out in CW why Cap didn't or did call her. Most terrible couple and we haven't even seen it yet.

Also Peggy wasn't going to be in Ultron, but apparently Hayley was having drinks with Joss since they're friends and he said to her that he'll write her in the movie.

 

[Voltron]

People are fine with interspecies shagging and people banging their bosses/superior officers but maybe hooking up with the niece of someone you kinda wanted to but were not really involved with is where the line is drawn. Odd.

so true.

M&M have been wanting to introduce Sharon and her relationship with Steve since 2011. If Whedon wanted to derail that before he left the franchise with no consideration, that's not on them. Whedon's foibles as middle-aged man/writer aren't on them, either.

Exactly. I'm glad M&M are on Sharon's side telling from their early interviews and TWS audio commentary.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

If they really wanted it so much, they couldn't have introduced Staron to be more boring. Natasha has to tell Steve to call her, because he doesn't seem to be very much interested in it himself and he asks: "What's her name again?" And in Ultron after the year after TWS he didn't call her. And why did they initially plan Natasha+Steve then? And there is only one Cap's film left. It will be the most terrible couple of the MCU on the ruins of good memory of Steggy.

Might be they tried but were overruled by TBTB, I'll grant you it was a poor set-up, but the intent is clearly there.

Steve and Natasha were never an option, the plan was Clint.

 

[sergeantbucky]

Steve and Natasha were never an option, the plan was Clint.

Could be wrong, but I remember there was discussion about a Steve/Natasha romantic setup in TWS. They nixed that idea so Widow's presence in the film wouldn't be seen as merely a love interest.

 

[sergeantbucky]

People are fine with interspecies shagging and people banging their bosses/superior officers but maybe hooking up with the niece of someone you kinda wanted to but were not really involved with is where the line is drawn. Odd.

We don't know the extent of Steggy's relationship. Just the other day Hayley Atwell said that she thinks Peggy and Cap did the nasty

Nothing is explicit, but a deep romantic attraction and attachment is implied between the two. Even on a purely emotional level, it is odd that you'd seek out sexual relations with the descendant of the woman you actually wanted to bang.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

Well Evans said that Steve is a virgin a while back.

Granted neither position means as much as M&Ms or what Russos might say but I'm inclined to believe Evans, not the least because Evans is the more sober when it comes to the subject.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

Well Evans said that Steve is a virgin a while back.

Granted neither position means as much as M&Ms or what Russos might say but I'm inclined to believe Evans, not the least because Evans is the more sober when it comes to the subject.

 

[Rote]

Cap asking Sharon out - we didn't even see why. He could ask anybody just like that, there is no building, there is no chemistry, and after that he discovers she was spying on him and forgets about her until Natasha has to recall. It's like: "Oh, Cap, you're 95 years old virgin, it's time for you to hook up with somebody already!" That's what you do when you want your audience to get invested in ship, oh yeah.

Clint was never an option from Whedon, he said from the start, that he wanted to show, that man and woman could be close friends without sex.
And Sharon's role was initially noname agent. And tws audio commentary... Didn't remember anything particulary interesting from there about Staron aside from stating the obvious.

And no matter had or had not Steve sex with Peggy, that's not the point. The point is, it will look like he's dating Sharon because he can't let go of Peggy as they are related. And want you or not, Steve's arc in Ultron is now canon, you can't ignore it: Steve wasn't interested in Sharon that much, you can make different excuses, but it's what it is: Peggy alone was in his head. When people really want to get together, they never act like that. That's why Staron will be mess and boring as hell.

TWS showed us that you can have good movie without unnecesary love plot. And this is part that made tws so good. But apparently for marvel it's too much, they need to shove romance in our noses no matter what (yes, Brutasha, Scott and Hope, Thor and Jane I'm looking at you)

ps. And also it's very interesting how M&M, such invested in Staron, continued to push Steggy in Agent Carter. And not only on Peggy's side. One Cap's film is far too not enough to make up for all that, there is just no time. And there won't be after that because of IW.

 

[universeman]

So what your telling me is Steve is like Major Payne of course none of that matters right now what matters is getting the Four back home.

 

[Rote]

So, I've found what Russo said about Natasha+Steve.

it was also the debate of whether there would be romance between them for real in the movie. Eventually we decided not to do it as: (a) there is no time, and (b) it sort of sells both characters short that the only reason to have Black Widow is so that there could be sexual tension.

So I think, as they considered that option to set Steve not with canonic girlfriend, they understand that Staron sucks (but Marvel can force them to make it, of course) and Whedon understood it. The theme of characters arcs in Ultron was family, he could easily use Sharon (and compensate the lack of time in CW for romance) for Steve's but he chose Peggy to show, that now Steve don't need traditional family. And Fiege let him. That's the inconsistency that ruins romantic subplots in MCU.

 

[Miqu]

Is Steve really still a virgin? I mean in TWS he told Natasha that he had practice in the 21th century. Maybe he meant the kissing but come on he is freaking Captain America and he isn't getting laid ever ?

 

[BullMcGiveny]

Cap asking Sharon out - we didn't even see why. He could ask anybody just like that, there is no building, there is no chemistry, and after that he discovers she was spying on him and forgets about her until Natasha has to recall. It's like: "Oh, Cap, you're 95 years old virgin, it's time for you to hook up with somebody already!" That's what you do when you want your audience to get invested in ship, oh yeah.

Clint was never an option from Whedon, he said from the start, that he wanted to show, that man and woman could be close friends without sex.
And Sharon's role was initially noname agent. And tws audio commentary... Didn't remember anything particulary interesting from there about Staron aside from stating the obvious.

And no matter had or had not Steve sex with Peggy, that's not the point. The point is, it will look like he's dating Sharon because he can't let go of Peggy as they are related. And want you or not, Steve's arc in Ultron is now canon, you can't ignore it: Steve wasn't interested in Sharon that much, you can make different excuses, but it's what it is: Peggy alone was in his head. When people really want to get together, they never act like that. That's why Staron will be mess and boring as hell.

.....


ps. And also it's very interesting how M&M, such invested in Staron, continued to push Steggy in Agent Carter. And not only on Peggy's side. One Cap's film is far too not enough to make up for all that, there is just no time. And there won't be after that because of IW.

Well the thing about Peggy is, while she might seem like a big deal now, that wasn't always the case. Back in 2010-11, she really was just Sharon's aunt.

Their very choice to use Peggy indicates them wanting to use Sharon eventually, at least at the start. Them choosing Peggy as a love interest while having no plans for Sharon would be akin to Marvel introducing Howard Stark first and then not making Tony a superhero.

Now you could argue that Peggy's popularity changed their plans, but the point remains. M&M clearly had plans, plans they've reiterated after TFA and after TWS.

Steve's vision is canon? Fine. Steve can't imagine life without war, can't imagine life with Peggy.

But Steve can move past that? People get suicidal and then find reasons to live, they go down destructive paths and then get their life together.

And yes, it might be with Sharon, when Peggy wouldn't do.

Perhaps the man who went into the ice would have been happy with Peggy and the man that came out wouldn't, and perhaps that man would be happy with Sharon.

TWS showed us that you can have good movie without unnecesary love plot. And this is part that made tws so good. But apparently for marvel it's too much, they need to shove romance in our noses no matter what (yes, Brutasha, Scott and Hope, Thor and Jane I'm looking at you)

THey did such a bang up job that people kept talking about how they should totally hook up, including Scarjo being apparently amenable to the idea, and a write-up by Entertainment Weekly.

I mean, sure. That's nothing new. Lots of movies don't have love stories. Take Lawrence of Arabia, for instance. GREAT MOVIE, doesn't have a love story.

It doesn't have any speaking women, either. Perhaps all the females should just beat it, then.