Civil War Sharon carter A.K.A. Agent 13 - Part 1

[Stevie2020]

Sure Peggy will be dead. But you bet her spirit and presence will hang over Steve and Sharon. Once Bucky is of full mind again he'll ask Steve about Peggy. Peggy's funeral should've happened in TWS considering how full CW will be.

It could have happened off screen for that matter which is why I think there's more to it.

 

[Voltron]

It could have happened off screen for that matter which is why I think there's more to it.

More to it like how? Well in the comics its the reason they cooled off their relationship if I recall. They'll probably use Peggy's funeral scene to showcase how close the avengers have become before hell breaks loose and for Steve to discover that Sharon's Peggy's great niece.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

More to it like how? Well in the comics its the reason they cooled off their relationship if I recall. They'll probably use Peggy's funeral scene to showcase how close the avengers have become before hell breaks loose and for Steve to discover that Sharon's Peggy's great niece.

I thought much the same, though one of the Russos recently said that the movie will start with the Avengers on a mission, presumably the one in Nigeria. Who knows, though...

 

[Rote]

OMG, haven't been in these threads for several weeks and still I see all the same talk. I'm pretty sure, that the main reason to show Peggy's funeral is to stress, that Bucky is the only thing that is now left from Steve's past, as Evans and Russo have said.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

Was the scene with Sharon and Steve in a cafe shot to stress that Bucky is the only one left from Steve's past, too?

 

[TalismanRing]

I thought much the same, though one of the Russos recently said that the movie will start with the Avengers on a mission, presumably the one in Nigeria. Who knows, though...

The rumor that the film starts off with the Nigeria/CrossBones incident has been around for months so I take the Russos' statement as a confirmation.

I think they probably know of the other recent rumor about the book-ended funeral scenes and were subtly saying no that doesn't happen.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

The rumor that the film starts off with the Nigeria/CrossBones incident has been around for months so I take the Russos' statement as a confirmation.

There's rumors about everything and anything.

I do wonder, though, when the funeral would take place if not right at the start, or if it might even be in the movie.

 

[TalismanRing]

There's rumors about everything and anything.

I do wonder, though, when the funeral would take place if not right at the start, or if it might even be in the movie.

They started off TWS with a charterer scene then went into action and it makes a nice change to start this one with an action scene and the move into character with the funeral.

Reportedly, one of the Russos greatest strengths as directors is that while they like a lot of coverage of scenes they don't have many excess scenes in their films to cut. TWS had about 5 - 10 minutes of deleted scenes and most of that was trimming of longer scenes. AOU in and Avengers in comparison had 45 min to an hour.

 

[Stevie2020]

More to it like how? Well in the comics its the reason they cooled off their relationship if I recall. They'll probably use Peggy's funeral scene to showcase how close the avengers have become before hell breaks loose and for Steve to discover that Sharon's Peggy's great niece.

Well, there isn't a relationship yet, so there's nothing to cool. But I generally agree otherwise.

Peggy's funeral is important to show because:

a: she was one of the few living links to Steve's past, which will play a part in establishing the protagonist's point of view especially as he fights to protect and maybe rehabilitate his LAST living link to his past,

b: it provides an opportunity to show how close Steve's teammates and friends have become and may portend how the Civil War teams split (and it is noteworthy the absence of Stark in the funeral set photos although it may indicate nothing),

c: it gives an opportunity to reintroduce SC/A13 as the DLI and BAMF and reveal the familial relationship (if it has not already been discovered off screen). My guess is that she will also be useful in the quest for Bucky in additon to fulfilling the "coffee date", lol ,

d: all of the above and perhaps more?

This funeral is not for nothing ( and I really won't be surprised by a Haley Atwell cameo). No way. Unless they drop the scene altogether and move the death off screen, I believe it serves the plot and the character in multiple ways, whether or not there is another bookend as rumored or not.

If it's a major event like the wedding at the start of The Godfather for example, this is poised to be epic storytelling.

 

[Rote]

"Coffee date" AT THE FUNERAL? Talk about crazy shipping. "Oh, I kind of want to start dating this chick who is related to my first true love that just died." Russos are better than this nonsense.

Was the scene with Sharon and Steve in a cafe shot to stress that Bucky is the only one left from Steve's past, too?

As I said, "the main reason". Peggy is there for the sake of Peggy in the first place. Maybe Sharon is there for some plot purposes connected with Peggy, because it's pretty clear now, that this funeral isn't made to get Steve and Sharon together. At the TWS screening on this con Russos didn't mentioned her at all, even when there were her scenes, but they talked with Stucky's fans, confirmed once more that they are open to all interpretations of relationships and told them, that "If you love #Stucky you're going to -love- #CivilWar." So, unless Russos are baiting their fans... But I don't think they are THAT kind of persons to do such thing. So I don't expect any kind of serious relationship between Steve and Sharon in this movie.

 

[Stevie2020]

"Coffee date" AT THE FUNERAL? Talk about crazy shipping. "Oh, I kind of want to start dating this chick who is related to my first true love that just died." Russos are better than this nonsense.

As I said, "the main reason". Peggy is there for the sake of Peggy in the first place. Maybe Sharon is there for some plot purposes connected with Peggy, because it's pretty clear now, that this funeral isn't made to get Steve and Sharon together. At the TWS screening on this con Russos didn't mentioned her at all, even when there were her scenes, but they talked with Stucky's fans, confirmed once more that they are open to all interpretations of relationships and told them, that "If you love #Stucky you're going to -love- #CivilWar." So, unless Russos are baiting their fans... But I don't think they are THAT kind of persons to do such thing. So I don't expect any kind of serious relationship between Steve and Sharon in this movie.

Funeral repast dating...there could be a market for that. The ultimate meet-cute-and-comfort for the bereaved and vulnerable.

I don't think the Russos are baiting with regarding Stucky and NoStaron and bookend-death-rumor diversion, but I do think there is a slightly worrying amount of hyperbole ie., "audiences WILL NOT BE READY FOR WHAT HAPPENS IN CIVIL WAR", and "characters undergo SEISMIC CHANGES!!!", etc. Time for me to start managing expectations lest another AoU disappointment.

They were right, though, when they talked about how audiences would really like the trailer. No hyperbole there.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

a: she was one of the few living links to Steve's past, which will play a part in establishing the protagonist's point of view especially as he fights to protect and maybe rehabilitate his LAST living link to his past,

This has been oft repeated, but it is pretty weak IMO. Bucky is Steve's lifelong friend, the fact that he's a link is incidental.

b: it provides an opportunity to show how close Steve's teammates and friends have become and may portend how the Civil War teams split (and it is noteworthy the absence of Stark in the funeral set photos although it may indicate nothing),

The only ones at the funeral, aside from Sharon and Steve, are Sam and Natasha. AKA the gang from TWS, who don't need further convincing that they're friends, and Natasha isn't on Steve's team.

"Coffee date" AT THE FUNERAL? Talk about crazy shipping. "Oh, I kind of want to start dating this chick who is related to my first true love that just died." Russos are better than this nonsense.

As I said, "the main reason". Peggy is there for the sake of Peggy in the first place. Maybe Sharon is there for some plot purposes connected with Peggy, because it's pretty clear now, that this funeral isn't made to get Steve and Sharon together. At the TWS screening on this con Russos didn't mentioned her at all, even when there were her scenes, but they talked with Stucky's fans, confirmed once more that they are open to all interpretations of relationships and told them, that "If you love #Stucky you're going to -love- #CivilWar." So, unless Russos are baiting their fans... But I don't think they are THAT kind of persons to do such thing. So I don't expect any kind of serious relationship between Steve and Sharon in this movie.

Oh, please. Marvel "dollar signs for eyes" Studios is not putting Steve and Bucky together, get real. It is the very picture of queerbaiting.

But please, explain to me why there was a scene of Steve talking to Sharon in a cafe if the scene is all about Bucky apparently.

 

[Stevie2020]

This has been oft repeated, but it is pretty weak IMO. Bucky is Steve's lifelong friend, the fact that he's a link is incidental.



The only ones at the funeral, aside from Sharon and Steve, are Sam and Natasha. AKA the gang from TWS, who don't need further convincing that they're friends, and Natasha isn't on Steve's team.



Oh, please. Marvel "dollar signs for eyes" Studios is not putting Steve and Bucky together, get real. It is the very picture of queerbaiting.

But please, explain to me why there was a scene of Steve talking to Sharon in a cafe if the scene is all about Bucky apparently.

The fact that he's a link is incidental? Incidental to what?

Lets just say that Peggy was someone who knew him back in the day and Bucky knew him back in the day. The only two since he was defrosted. Now one is dead and the other is in extreme danger and damaged. How is that incidental to anything? I would say its a major theme driving the plot. YMMV, apparently.

No one has suggested that scene of S/S was all about Bucky. I actually thought your question was rhetorical or you were being facetious. Who knows though...maybe they talk about Bucky during their post funeral coffee date. Incidentally.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

The fact that he's a link is incidental? Incidental to what?

Lets just say that Peggy was someone who knew him back in the day and Bucky knew him back in the day. The only two since he was defrosted. Now one is dead and the other is in extreme danger and damaged. How is that incidental to anything? I would say its a major theme driving the plot. YMMV, apparently.

It is incidental because the crux is Bucky being Steve's friend, not some guy Steve merely knew from before.

Are you telling me that Steve would be going to the same lengths for any grunt he knew back in the war?

Are you telling me that, despite there being around 800,000 living WWII veterans today, they're all dead in the MCU aside from Bucky and Peggy?

Are you telling me that if Sam, who Steve is close friends with but only recently met, was in a similar predicament, Steve wouldn't go as far to help him?

No one has suggested that scene of S/S was all about Bucky. I actually thought your question was rhetorical or you were being facetious. Who knows though...maybe they talk about Bucky during their post funeral coffee date. Incidentally.

Yes. Someone did. According to Rote the entire scene around the funeral is all about Bucky.

 

[Stevie2020]

It is incidental because the crux is Bucky being Steve's friend, not some guy Steve merely knew from before.

That's not incidental or separated from the main thrust of the story; it's essential and a major part of the plot that Bucky is Steve's best from childhood, who he thought was dead, which was my point.

Are you telling me that Steve would be going to the same lengths for any grunt he knew back in the war?

No. I am not telling you that.

Are you telling me that, despite there being around 800,000 living WWII veterans today, they're all dead in the MCU aside from Bucky and Peggy?

Can you name any, in-universe, that he grew up with as a close friend or had romantic feelings for (Peggy, not Bucky, just so were clear on that one.)?

Are you telling me that if Sam, who Steve is close friends with but only recently met, was in a similar predicament, Steve wouldn't go as far to help him?

I'm not telling you that at all. Mostly because it's beside the point.

Yes. Someone did. According to Rote the entire scene around the funeral is all about Bucky.

She did not say that in her post. A closer read might help.

But I'll leave that to Rote to respond. That is if she has any further interest in this thread.

This is truly the song that never ends.

 

[Rote]

Funeral repast dating...there could be a market for that. The ultimate meet-cute-and-comfort for the bereaved and vulnerable.

Okay Then Peggy and Steve, I suppose, also had their date in that bombed bar, when Peggy was comforting him after Bucky's "death".t:

Oh, please. Marvel "dollar signs for eyes" Studios is not putting Steve and Bucky together, get real. It is the very picture of queerbaiting.

But please, explain to me why there was a scene of Steve talking to Sharon in a cafe if the scene is all about Bucky apparently.

Of course not. They never said that, but if you want, you may think that they are dumb enough to bait their fans and to not understand that shippers of one ship won't be happy if another ship happens. You may be right.
You can't read? I need to repeat again: "The MAIN reason"? And this is Peggy's funeral, so it's obviously about PEGGY first and then about Bucky being the only one left and only then about the girl, Steve barely knows. And I guess, they will be talking about Peggy.

She will help Steve, so they need to get to know each other. So? Again, yeah, maybe Russos are dumb enough to begin romance, but left it hanging without pay off at the end of the last Cap's solo film, where all arcs need to get conclusion. I won't argue, you may be right. But as for me, I see logic in ScarJo words, that there is little room for a romance in CW, because there is indeed a lot going on.

And oh, yeah, I actually think that Steve may wouldn't go as far to help Sam. Evans already said, that Cap loves Bucky more than anyone else, because he's the only one left from his past.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

That's not incidental or separated from the main thrust of the story; it's essential and a major part of the plot that Bucky is Steve's best from childhood, who he thought was dead, which was my point.

Can you name any, in-universe, that he grew up with as a close friend or had romantic feelings for (Peggy, not Bucky, just so were clear on that one. )?

That's my point. Steve and Bucky are friends, that's why he's trying to save him.

That Bucky is from the 1940s doesn't mean anything. That Bucky is the only one left from the 1940s doesn't mean anything.

I'm not telling you that all. Mostly because it's beside the point.

It is entirely the point. You claim Peggy dies because they need to pose Bucky as the last of the '40s folks, so that Steve needs to save him.

 

[Stevie2020]

(Never mind. Pointless discussion. )

 

[BullMcGiveny]

She will help Steve, so they need to get to know each other. So?

So that's my point. They need to know each other, so they come together during Peggy's funeral. Maybe it leads to camaraderie or maybe it leads to romance, but it'll be about them.

I'm not sure what the scene being firstly being about Peggy "first" as distinct from Peggy or Sharon would serve. Funerals scenes are seldom about the departed, and usually are about those left alive.

Kind of like Steve and Peggy in the bombed-out bar, where they talk about Bucky, but the scene is really about the two of them, particularly Steve, and is called back to when Steve makes his sacrifice at the end.

But hey, maybe they killed Peggy so that Steve will be motivated to save Bucky because Steve has no strong reason to do so otherwise.

And oh, yeah, I actually think that Steve may wouldn't go as far to help Sam. Evans already said, that Cap loves Bucky more than anyone else, because he's the only one left from his past.

Right.

 

[Rote]

But hey, maybe they killed Peggy so that Steve will be motivated to save Bucky because Steve has no strong reason to do so otherwise.

Of course Steve is trying to save Bucky not just because he's the only one left. But Russos clearly uses "the only one left" to rise the stakes and show Steve's motivation to go to THAT extent of it. He wouldn't do the same for every other friend. Because he's going against his other friends and almost against the whole world for that. Because after Peggy's death Bucky is the most important person in Steve's life, he's more, than just a friend, he's like a brother for him, as Russos have said. And I agree with Stevie2020, it's a pointless conversation, because you don't want to see the point of Russos and Evans words and they have said it multiple times. Just one of the examples

Had Bucky not been brainwashed he’d be doing the same thing Cap is doing, taking orders from S.H.I.E.L.D. and fighting for the country and then realizing S.H.I.E.L.D. is corrupt. But Bucky’s a different situation. He obviously couldn’t make these choices. This is — I don’t want to give too much about the plot away but Bucky’s a big piece of the puzzle in this movie just because it gives Steve something that he really hasn’t had besides Peggy, but even Peggy is well on in her life.
No one on this planet knew him then. No one is left. He doesn’t have any peace with his youth. He doesn’t have any peace from his life, so Bucky and whatever happens with Bucky in this movie…That’s a big piece in terms of him kind of finding his own purpose in what he’s fighting for and how that friendship can come back to life. Not just them as soldiers, but them as friends.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

Fair enough. It sounds excessive, and perhaps even regressive, but fair enough.

Still doesn't mean the funeral is about Bucky though. As Steve2020 said, they could have killed her off between movies and you'd still get Bucky as the last war buddy.

The death might be for Bucky, the funeral is anyone's guess, but probably Sharon.

Your earlier outburst was quite misplaced.

 

[MbJ]

 

[Rote]

Fair enough. It sounds excessive, and perhaps even regressive, but fair enough.

Still doesn't mean the funeral is about Bucky though. As Steve2020 said, they could have killed her off between movies and you'd still get Bucky as the last war buddy.

The death might be for Bucky, the funeral is anyone's guess, but probably Sharon.

Your earlier outburst was quite misplaced.

As I said, if you don't want to see a point, you will never see it. You will just blah-blah your way out of this. Apparently in this thread Sharon's fans want to see Peggy's death as just a plot device to get Steve with Sharon. So one last time.
Because the rule is "Show, don't tell". Because Peggy wasn't just some minor figure in Steve's life during many years and 4 films (and the last one, AoU, even showed that he still thinks about her). It's the last Cap's film, so her funeral will be a beautiful conclusion for all this. Audience will care about her death and its effect on Steve much more, than about some barely known girl, happened to be relative to her. You can't just say: "Oh, by the way, she's dead. Lets go on." Audience needs to see Steve's emotions, his grief in order to feel the rising of stakes and his motivation. And what is the better place to emphasize it all, if not at her funeral? And yes, it's Cap's films, so it's always about Cap AND somebody, so I shortly said, that it's about Peggy and Bucky. As you said:

Kind of like Steve and Peggy in the bombed-out bar, where they talk about Bucky, but the scene is really about the two of them, particularly Steve, and is called back to when Steve makes his sacrifice at the end.

Yes, it's about Steve's grief, how much Bucky meant to him, his guilt and his motivation for going after Red Skull, although one would assume, he would go after RS anyway, but they still felt the need to show this scene. It's hardly all about Steve and Peggy.

And as for SC,it seems like she's not THAT big character in this film to make the entire funeral scene just for the sake of her. Either that, or Russos just really don't like her at all, and were forced by Marvel to make her important, because they don't want to talk about her. They already said multiple times, how important will be Tony, Bucky, Natasha, Sam, Vision, Spidey, Black Panter, even Wanda (considering leaked promo-arts and the last official art, one may suspect, that Wanda even took Sharon's place in the battle). It's not like they have unlimited time for million of important arcs. It's not like Sharon's relationship with Steve or name "Carter" are some sort of a secret, EVC already talked out loud about it. It's not like Steve in CW will have time to stop and ask himself: "I'm attracted to the Peggy's relative. Is it weird?"
If they could make Peggy's death happen off screen only for the sake of someone, it would be Sharon. They could just show that Steve is really interested in her, so made a flashback about Steve calling her after TWS and discovering about "Carter", because it's not that kind of revelation at all to require an entire funeral scene. It's no good to show the audience, that Steve get to know her only because of Peggy.

 

[Mike5575]

Peggy's death is most likely just for Sharon and Steve. They bond over the shared connection they had with Peggy.

 

[TalismanRing]

Peggy's death is most likely just for Sharon and Steve. They bond over the shared connection they had with Peggy.

If it was an off screen death I'd agree. Say, they met at the cemetery on the one year anniversary of her death and then had coffee and bonded. Having this meet up at the funeral actually works against rather than for any believable romantic bonding.

This is a full funeral and a fresh loss of one of the most important people in Steve's life who was also one of only two people alive who knew him as pre-serum Steve Rogers and not as Captain America. This is as said to show once again how much Steve Rogers has lost and keeps losing which leads in to and supports some of his future actions in regards to Bucky in the story.