Civil War Sharon carter A.K.A. Agent 13 - Part 3

I said it was IMO. I don't know if that's what really happened.
I don't think Sharon would give info about Steve, put his life/freedom at risk even underpressure, even in the name of her work. This is Sharon Carter! The woman who was against Pierce and Rumlow! The woman who did many things for Steve and, at this point, she can be on the run.

But I could be wrong.

I'm not arguing, this is just a discussion for kicks. And you may be absolutely correct. Or it may be that the writers haven't even decided how or if they will include Sharon going forward and what plot points from CW would even be relevant that. We'll see.
 
Of course, because that's what the whole CW was about.:o In the mind of Staron fanfic writer.
But if you're really into all these stupid shippers wars... Then of all pairings it's actully Stucky's shippers, who have won. Because love isn't measured in amount of kisses, it's about doings. Civil War is actually a testament of Steve's love for Bucky, Evans confirmed, that Cap loves Bucky more than anyone else, that he won't do the same for anybody else. And what has Cap actually done for Sharon? NOTHING. He used her, made her unnecessary risk her job (let's be honest, Cap and Sam could steal shield and wings by themselves, as they did in TWS. Heck, Cap even break in the Raft in the end without shield, it wouldn't be a big problem for him at all.) and then forgot about her.

Steve thought "there's a huge chance" to die in the fight with 5 supersoldiers?:funny: You wish. But it's complete nonsense. He might thought it when they left with Bucky alone (although, I very much doubt even that, because when Bucky asked: "What's gonna happen to your friends?", Steve was very confident with reply:"Whatever it is, I'll deal with it"), but on that moment he has called Clint and Scott, he didn't know that Sharon will lead team Stark to the airport, so he was expecting that it will be at least 6 of them against Winter Soldiers. And he had Wanda among them. Wanda could actually kick WSs asses all by herself.

Staron fanfic? Says the person who wants Stucky to happen.
Shipper wars? Nope not into it because Staron is canon now, if it's only in CW then so be it, but it's still canon.
See, that's your problem, because I don't see Stucky and Staron in competition. I so happen to like Stucky's platonic brotherly love AND Staron's budding or maybe brief romance.

Steve didn't make Sharon do anything. Sharon did it because she thought it was the right thing to do and maybe in some way she was helping her aunt out too. Remember Stam were looking for Bucky for 2 years with no leads and it was Sharon who found Bucky for them. And it was Sharon's eulogy that made Steve be resolute in his stance against the accords.

Chance that Steve will die? Okay then, "AHHH FCK IT. I'VE LIKED YOU SINCE YOU WERE KATE. I'M THANKFUL FOR ALL YOUR VALUABLE HELP. I DON'T WANT TO WAIT FOR TOO LONG AND MISS MY CHANCE AGAIN AT HAPPINESS LIKE I DID WITH PEGGY. DAMN YOU'RE BEAUTIFUL. I MIGHT NOT RETURN FROM SIBERIA ALIVE. STUCKY SHIPPERS CAN EAT IT, I'M GONNA GET SOME."

To add, that look on Steve's face on board the quinjet, "AHHHH I'M SO GLAD THAT I DID KISS SHARON BECAUSE I MIGHT NOT RETURN FROM SIBERIA ALIVE."
 
So disappointed in Hayley again. The question wasn't even about Steve/Sharon, but about Peggy/Sharon connection. Instead of her just answering the question she takes a swipe to degrade Sharon and Staron over a man she once kissed 70 years ago. Her answer says more about Hayley because she's coming off as bitter, petty, ignorant, and a feminist hypocrite. Her answer was like a Freudian slip, very telling.
 
I think people are taking Haley too seriously. She's just messing around and playing it up for the fans. You really think she gives a s***?
 
Actors definitely do not take these discussions as seriously as we do. I very much doubt Atwell was trying to upset Sharon Carter's fans, she was more likely just goofing around.
 
I agree, it's a joke. I think she doesn't know about the hate that Sharon gets from some fans, especially now that she's not on the net.
 
It might be a joke to her but it is a "joke" at Sharon's expense. She's had ample opportunity to say something else in support of (specifically) Sharon, including when asked. She didn't.

In other news, Chris and Emily nominated for Teen Choice award.
 
I found it a joke the first two times but this time around she associated Sharon with the Jerry Springer show and being pregnant designed to cheapen Sharon and Staron. Notice how it wasn't at Steve's expense. She could've used this opportunity to support a female character and the Carter legacy, but no she opted for the old how dare you steal my man cliche.
 
The video with storyboards are no longer on youtube.
:cmad: That's annoying because that was bonus Sharon footage for me of what might've been. Marvel probs was behind it and maybe it'll be added in the dvd features.


Yeah I hope EVC/Evans wins that teen choice award, but it looks like Mockingjay or Detergent will win it. If EVC/Evans wins which I highly doubt there's no way Evans would even turn up because he's an unsupportive anti-Staron diva.
 
:cmad: That's annoying because that was bonus Sharon footage for me of what might've been. Marvel probs was behind it and maybe it'll be added in the dvd features.


Yeah I hope EVC/Evans wins that teen choice award, but it looks like Mockingjay or Detergent will win it. If EVC/Evans wins which I highly doubt there's no way Evans would even turn up because he's an unsupportive anti-Staron diva.

100%.

It's sad, really. I get that it's fictional characters but come on. In this day and age, movie stars are quick to know whether or not their characters are disliked. And social media is a breeding ground for people to hide behind their computers and spew vile comments.

Hayley should know that by now considering she didn't like it when fans referred to her as 'mommy'. Why would she intentionally make it easier for fans to hate Sharon?

And Evans is no different. Him and Hayley need to stop adding fuel to the fire.
 
And Evans is no different. Him and Hayley need to stop adding fuel to the fire.
It's not like Sharon Carter is a real person. It's not like Staron is a real couple. All of this is fictional. The aggregate of writers and directors choices. So Hayley has EVERY RIGHT to express her opinion honestly. Staron was really very poorly handled, professional critics with no agenda pointed that out, why should Atwell be silent? Because she may hurt some comic-book fans delicate feelings?
See, that's your problem, because I don't see Stucky and Staron in competition. I so happen to like Stucky's platonic brotherly love AND Staron's budding or maybe brief romance.
And yet it's you, who can't let go of "STUCKY SHIPPERS CAN EAT IT". Need more capslock and more Staron fanfic writing.
Steve didn't make Sharon do anything. Sharon did it because she thought it was the right thing to do and maybe in some way she was helping her aunt out too.
Or because she is really that stupid lovestruck girl, who is risking her job, whole career, reputantion and freedom for helping mass murderer and terrorist, just because Steve, whom she doesn't even know well in person, just some legend from her aunt's stories. And Steve was perfectly okay with it. Natasha on the other hand has her own opinion and knows that Steve can be wrong because of his blinding love for Bucky. Now I see why the Russos said that Nat is the most grown-up person in Civil War.
Remember Stam were looking for Bucky for 2 years with no leads and it was Sharon who found Bucky for them.
Sharon had nothing to do with finding Bucky. She just leaked info to Steve. It was said very clearly in the movie that Bucky was found because Zemo's set up "got 7 billion people looking for the Winter soldier." BP had found Bucky without any info from Sharon, just 5 minutes later than Steve and the task force, which he probably just followed.
And it was Sharon's eulogy that made Steve be resolute in his stance against the accords.
Again, it wasn't really her. She just repeated PEGGY'S words. And even that was not quite enough for Steve, because when Tony asked Steve to sign the Accords so "We can make the last 24 hours legit. Barnes gets transferred to an American
psych center instead of a Wakanda prison.", Steve actually took the pen and responded with: "I'm not saying it's impossible." Wanda's confinement was the reason he refused at the end of that conversation.
 
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Steve actually took the pen and responded with: "I'm not saying it's impossible."

Isn't that still acting within Sharon's eulogy/Peggy's words? "Compromise when you can"?
 
Natasha on the other hand has her own opinion and knows that Steve can be wrong because of his blinding love for Bucky.

I don't understand how she didn't realize that the showing Bucky pic everywhere meant that someone was doing it with the wrong purpose. Steve, Sam and Sharon realized it, but she didn't. She is one of the best agents.
It's like she crossed her arms, whether it was wrong or not, it seems that in this filme, she only care with the Avengers / Steve.
She did not mind that they were going to kill him, even knowing how much he meant to Steve. I would have loved to see Steve ask her if she thinks it's right to kill a man without a trial? If this is how the agreements work?

It is sad that we have not seen more Sharon, seeing why she was helping Steve. But you know, this seems to be a fault of the writers. In WS, we only have two scenes with Steve and Sam, but when shield are behind him, he goes to Sam. How will he trust someone he knows only a few weeks?

Please, say that Steve used Sharon goes against his character. The last thing Steve was doing was to use someone.
 
Isn't that still acting within Sharon's eulogy/Peggy's words? "Compromise when you can"?
Yes, but still that was not the ultimate point of Peggy's words. After the funeral Steve didn't want to listen to Nat and compromise because it's better to "stay together".
I don't understand how she didn't realize that the showing Bucky pic everywhere meant that someone was doing it with the wrong purpose. Steve, Sam and Sharon realized it, but she didn't. She is one of the best agents.
No, it was actually only Steve. As the conversation goes it's evident that Sam and Sharon didn't think initially that it makes much sense. He had to explain his suspicions to them. (And even Steve himself began to think about it only after Bucky's: "My name is Bucky". In that moment he got the hint that Bucky is Bucky, not the WS. He desperately wanted Bucky to be innocent, all the others considered Barnes as mass murderer and terrorist, even without the US bombing. Characters in the movie don't share the same experience as the audience, who have seen Bucky's brainwashing scenes) If Steve talked to Natasha, maybe she would have listen too. And still the US bombing was not actually the reason, why Natasha did, what she did. IIRC, ScarJo said in a interview, that Nat knows how dangerous is Bucky, that he's a total wild card. And she has a point. That is actually much more healthy attitude than Sharon's "he kind of tried to kill me, he actually killed innocent people close to me, but I will help you anyway without any explanations".
She did not mind that they were going to kill him, even knowing how much he meant to Steve. I would have loved to see Steve ask her if she thinks it's right to kill a man without a trial? If this is how the agreements work?
Yes, as I've said in another thread, that is the one problem I have with Nat in this movie. But in the end she still was the one, who turned to the Cap's side and helped Cap and Bucky get out. Everybody in this movie has made mistakes. That was one of the points of the whole film, that's why the Russos talked about it so much.
if she thinks it's right to kill a man without a trial
Also an important note: she didn't know about the "shoot on sight" orders. My only problem with Nat is that she called BP for help, while she was aware he wanted to kill Bucky.
In WS, we only have two scenes with Steve and Sam, but when shield are behind him, he goes to Sam. How will he trust someone he knows only a few weeks?
I don't like that moment in WS either.
Please, say that Steve used Sharon goes against his character. The last thing Steve was doing was to use someone.
Steve is one of my favorite characters in the MCU. I love him very much. But still I don't get why people here want so desperately to pretend that he's a saint, just because we haven't seen his flaws in the previous films. It was stated many times by filmmakers, that Steve is selfish in this movie, that he is finally showing his dark side.
And yes, I actually think that he used people in this movie for his own selfish reasons. Not intentionally, he still is a good man. But he called Clint and Scott, who had no motives to fight aside from their blind loyalty to Cap, they believed him. And Steve himself had no other confirmation about 5 supersoldiers aside from Bucky's words. And Bucky is unstable murderer. Yes, it's not his fault, but still he has been under Hydra's control for 70 years. Steve could turn Barnes over, then Tony could have listened about Zemo. Or Steve could and should have picked Wanda to go fight 5 supersoldiers with him, because she's stronger and more useful against them than Bucky. As this article says:
Take The Winter Soldier out of the movie. Remove the relationship between Steve and Bucky. What happens in the film? Steve refuses to sign the Sokovia Accords and… that’s it. I would guess that he can’t stay inactive, but I bet that he would just operate under the radar, being more tactical and focusing more on espionage. He would operate in a way that didn’t put him in direct conflict with Tony Stark, and if it did, there would be no emotional stakes high enough for Steve to escalate the conflict to violence. That scene on the tarmac, where Steve grits his teeth and decides to battle it out with his friends, never happens. There’s just no reason strong enough for him to risk his current friendships. If Zemo still bombs the signing of the Accords Steve probably feels that Tony's team is more than capable of dealing with it. There are no personal stakes for him.
And that is actually confirmed by filmmakers. Evans straight out said, that Cap is selfish and chooses Bucky over his new Avenger's family. That's it. But if somebody wants to see Cap as white and pure as he was in the previous films, then there is no point to argue about it, because the movie provides pretty good excuses for Steve to not make him too bad. They obviously worked very hard to balance these things well.

Once again - yes, Steve still is a good man. He meant well. But he has found comfortable excuses for himself and was okay with it. Avengers have become criminals because of him. That's an objective result of his actions. And for what? There was no need to fly to Siberia. No need at all. As well as there was no need for Sharon to risk her job, because if Steve is capable to break in the Raft without shield, he is totally capable to steal wings and that shield himself. All these sacrifices were all for nothing. Yes, Steve meant well, I stress about it, yes, maybe in the end Tony has made much more mistakes but Steve was wrong too.
 
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Yeah, Steve is a good guy, but his motivations in this movie are almost entirely selfish. Pretty much everything that he does in this movie escalates the conflict and makes things worse when they don't necessarily have to be. And ultimately, "doing it Cap's way" is what causes him, Bucky, and Tony (who decided to try that as well) to walk right into Zemo's trap.

And yes, he does use people in this movie. Not maliciously of course, but it does happen. He plays on Clint and Scott Lang's blind loyalty and/or fanboyism of him and drags them into a fight that they weren't a part of initially (which only served to get them thrown into the Raft), he uses Sharon to get him info (which forces her to go into hiding), and so on and so forth.

And, by his own admission at the end, he kept the truth about Tony's parent's deaths from him, for his own selfish reason (which he then apologizes for).

And you know what, this is ok. Steve doesn't have to be a perfect man, or never screw up/make mistakes, to still be a good/honorable guy at the end of the day. "Good/honorable" doesn't always mean "perfect" after all.
 
Also an important note: she didn't know about the "shoot on sight" orders.

She knew. She knew that the order was to kill Bucky, otherwise what she was doing there when Steve and Sam arrived? She was next to Ross watching the interrogation of Bucky. I don't know if Tony knew, but she knew.

Steve makes it clear at the airport to Scott that he was becoming a criminal to do it. What to me means that Steve, to ask for help, warned each of them about the consequences of their actions.
They are all adults and experienced enough to know what would happen, they didn't care.

About Sharon, I don't know if she decided to help him for her own or if he asked. I like to think, after seeing the storyboards, she did what she thought was right to do.
 
And that is actually confirmed by filmmakers. Evans straight out said, that Cap is selfish and chooses Bucky over his new Avenger's family. That's it.

Cap is compromised. And his being "compromised" has nothing to do with Sharon quoting Peggy about compromise in the eulogy, btw. He was, as were the rest of the Avengers, seemingly engaged in the necessary discourse to get reach consensus on the Accords and what happens? Peggy dies.

Now Steve is conceivably already stressed from his life as a super soldier in the 21st century not to mention having just gone through a pretty costly mission. Yes, he's functional, but he's also suffering some of the dysfunction that comes with stress the least of which is a certain amount of resentment and some loss of judgment especially when he has to deal with rekindled and convenient attraction to Sharon and the framing and discovered whereabouts of Bucky.

And yes, he chose Bucky over the others. Bucky has been a major focus for two years, and Bucky is in the most immediate danger of being terminated. The others are full-fledged Avengers, all of whom know the responsibilities and dangers of the job of being an Avenger. They all had freedom to choose.

But, yeah. I'd agree he's a little selfish, but how could he not be under the circumstances?

Anyway...

But if somebody wants to see Cap as white and pure as he was in the previous films, then there is no point to argue about it, because the movie provides pretty good excuses for Steve to not make him too bad. They obviously worked very hard to balance these things well.

Was he thus in the previous films? I think people who choose to believe this over simplify the character and/or have selective memory. In TFA, he was a scofflaw when it came to the service recruitment process. Attempted enlistment 5 times which was expressly against the rules. Falsifies information. Can't stay out of a fight. Etc. He also mavericks off on a mission to rescue Bucky and company on his own authority with Howard and Peggy as his willing accomplices. More on "willing accomplices" later. And he swears and makes sausage eyes at Peggy.

In TWS, he manhandles BW, is borderline insubordinate with Fury, indulges in a little self-pity with Sam and Peggy, breaks about a dozen doors, steals a car, sabotages government property with "willing accomplices", and swears. Again. :whatever: Potty mouth.

Steve IS somewhat of a boy scout, but he's not Duddely Dooright. He's not "St. Steve". Because this is not that kind of genre. He's a little more complex than that and that's good because he would be a stone cold bore otherwise.

The movies are never going to make any of the Avengers seem too bad, not intentionally. That'd be the kiss of death. (What we the fans choose to see is another thing. We like to knock our heroes off of their pedestals from time-to-time, it seems.)

Once again - yes, Steve still is a good man. He meant well. But he has found comfortable excuses for himself and was okay with it. Avengers have become criminals because of him. That's an objective result of his actions. And for what? There was no need to fly to Siberia.

Steve has a strong and define ethos and he rationalizes his actions in accordance with that. All of the Avengers who followed him in the evil super soldier gambit also refused to sign the Accords and followed him willingly. And they all believed there was a need to get Siberia and stop the supers. Steve being Steve could not possibly NOT pursue, because it was conceivable that Zemo could have been after that particular human capital for no good use. Again, judgment. How hard would it have been to discuss this issue with Tony as a legitimate threat? (And of course, Civil War answers with, "enough talk. UNDEROOS!") Movies. smh.

The fact that the villain set it up to be a mission in vain was the point. Of course, the villain was motivated by actions directly liked, collectively speaking, to the Avengers, so there is that.

As well as there was no need for Sharon to risk her job, because if Steve is capable to break in the Raft without shield, he is totally capable to steal wings and that shield himself. All these sacrifices were all for nothing.

I stand by my thinking that Sharon risked nothing, and turned over the weaponry with full intention of informing on them for "the greater good". Not that she would be duplicitous, but that she would believe her duty would be in alignment with Steve's mission. Get Zemo, stop the world threat. No one in authority is listening to Steve at the moment, so either he would stop Zemo, or the authorities would stop him and follow up on the threat after they had Rogers in custody.

Yes, Steve meant well, I stress about it, yes, maybe in the end Tony has made much more mistakes but Steve was wrong too.

Why stress about any of this? They'll all be pardoned by the time Infinity War rolls around. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if we find out the Accords have been repealled or redacted or what-have-you by the time Tony Stark shows up to hog the spotlight in Spider-Man.

Now, having said all this, I don't know how much longer the Avengers can operate without some sort of structure around them. Privatization with Tony footing all the bills didn't work, S.H.I.E.L.D. and the WSC didn't work, UN/Accords was suspect. Infinity Wars might be the last hurrah.

On another note, I'd like to speculate on how Steve accomplished the RAFT jail break. Who wants to bet that we find out that Fury/Hill/Widow were the principals involved?
 
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On another note, I'd like to speculate on how Steve accomplished the RAFT jail break. Who wants to bet that we find out that Fury/Hill/Widow were the principals involved?

Sharon too.
 
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It's not like Sharon Carter is a real person. It's not like Staron is a real couple. All of this is fictional. The aggregate of writers and directors choices. So Hayley has EVERY RIGHT to express her opinion honestly. Staron was really very poorly handled, professional critics with no agenda pointed that out, why should Atwell be silent? Because she may hurt some comic-book fans delicate feelings?
"Instead of her just answering the question she takes a swipe to degrade Sharon and Staron over a man she once kissed 70 years ago. Her answer says more about Hayley because she's coming off as bitter, petty, ignorant, and a feminist hypocrite. Her answer was like a Freudian slip, very telling." If Staron and Steggy aren't a real couple why does she come off as a jealous, hypocrite and petty woman, why doesn't she talk more about Sharon/Peggy Carter legacy instead of always Staron.

And yet it's you, who can't let go of "STUCKY SHIPPERS CAN EAT IT". Need more capslock and more Staron fanfic writing.
You're mistaking my response between Stucky and Stucky shippers. It's the latter (most of them) that I take issue with and their disgusting vile attitude towards Sharon/Staron. Also I don't read Staron fan fic when there's 50 years of source material to pour over.

Or because she is really that stupid lovestruck girl, who is risking her job, whole career, reputantion and freedom for helping mass murderer and terrorist, just because Steve, whom she doesn't even know well in person, just some legend from her aunt's stories. And Steve was perfectly okay with it. Natasha on the other hand has her own opinion and knows that Steve can be wrong because of his blinding love for Bucky. Now I see why the Russos said that Nat is the most grown-up person in Civil War.
Nope, it's definitely, "Steve didn't make Sharon do anything. Sharon did it because she thought it was the right thing to do and maybe in some way she was helping her aunt out too." Also which is why Nat let Cap/Bucky escape...

Sharon had nothing to do with finding Bucky. She just leaked info to Steve. It was said very clearly in the movie that Bucky was found because Zemo's set up "got 7 billion people looking for the Winter soldier." BP had found Bucky without any info from Sharon, just 5 minutes later than Steve and the task force, which he probably just followed.
You are really reaching :loco:. Leak, found, it doesn't matter, because Sharon did indeed help Cap find Bucky FIRST. In the cut storyboard it explains that she did it to minimize casualties which is why she got Cap to locate Bucky.

Again, it wasn't really her. She just repeated PEGGY'S words. And even that was not quite enough for Steve, because when Tony asked Steve to sign the Accords so "We can make the last 24 hours legit. Barnes gets transferred to an American
psych center instead of a Wakanda prison.", Steve actually took the pen and responded with: "I'm not saying it's impossible." Wanda's confinement was the reason he refused at the end of that conversation.
Same thing :funny:. What are you going on about? You're going off in a tangent. It really shows you're irrational hate for Sharon :loco:.
 
100%.

It's sad, really. I get that it's fictional characters but come on. In this day and age, movie stars are quick to know whether or not their characters are disliked. And social media is a breeding ground for people to hide behind their computers and spew vile comments.

Hayley should know that by now considering she didn't like it when fans referred to her as 'mommy'. Why would she intentionally make it easier for fans to hate Sharon?

And Evans is no different. Him and Hayley need to stop adding fuel to the fire.
Because Hayley is an ignorant hypocrite. They're not only hating Sharon, but EVC. I usually wouldn't make a comment about this but, to Evans fictional Staron is icky (despite there being "extenuating circumstances"), but homewrecking is a.o.k.
 
It is sad that we have not seen more Sharon, seeing why she was helping Steve. But you know, this seems to be a fault of the writers. In WS, we only have two scenes with Steve and Sam, but when shield are behind him, he goes to Sam. How will he trust someone he knows only a few weeks?

Please, say that Steve used Sharon goes against his character. The last thing Steve was doing was to use someone.
It's not the writers fault because the writers were talking about Sharon with excitement since 2011. It's the Russos fault as discussed a few pages ago. It's also Evans' fault to a small degree that Sharon got screwed. In the original storyboard it shows Sharon/Staron getting plenty of development and involvement.

Also, ultimately business $$$ screwed over Sharon and the telling of Cap's mythos. Cap fans got screwed.
 
Partial deleted scene of flirting.
https://***********/EmilyVanCampArg/status/770716975228157956
Wished they kept it in the final cut.
 

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