Civil War She'll put a hex on you! The official Scarlet Witch thread - Part 1

[jaymes_e06]

You finding Tony's hypocrisy "absurd" doesn't make it a plot hole. Sorry.

How about a dumb story idea that is inconsistent with common sense is that better? Why is Tony in charge of the registration act anyway? Oh because he killed someone inadvertently and felt guilty you know someone else he did that too Wanda! Whipping out her entire family by similar means yet doesn't seem to care. In fact outside of Clint everyone is missing a sensitivity chip in regard to Wanda. I feel like she's the Meg of the MCU sometimes.

He doesn't even show any regard for her at all after he jails her in the super prison... he literally talks to everyone but her.

What a complete ass...

That made me wish when SW got loose she went directly to his door and emlploded his head.

 

[Smashlilman]

How about a dumb story idea that is inconsistent with common sense is that better? Why is Tony in charge of the registration act anyway? Oh because he killed someone inadvertently and felt guilty you know someone else he did that too Wanda! Whipping out her entire family by similar means yet doesn't seem to care. In fact outside of Clint everyone is missing a sensitivity chip in regard to Wanda. I feel like she's the Meg of the MCU sometimes.

He doesn't even show any regard for her at all after he jails her in the super prison... he literally talks to everyone but her.

What a complete ass...

That made me wish when SW got loose she went directly to his door and emlploded his head.

Because rich people with deep pockets control and/or have massive influence with the government and have more political influence over politicians. Tony and Stark industries had a relationship with the Military and General Ross in particular. When General Ross became Secretary of State Tony used influence with Ross to affect the frame work of the Accords. I'd be willing to bet that Tony is probable one of Presidents Elis's biggest campaign contributors.

Big Money in American Politics with Politico's Ken Vogel: VICE Meets
[YT]V2FfQhSECgY[/YT]

 

[jaymes_e06]

You're missing my point. I agree with everything you stated btw.... my point was the motivations for him to be pro registration act in general are very flawed storytelling imo. They seem shoehorned in to create conflict.

He feels such remorse for this perfect stranger and him killing the womans son inadvertently yet he decimates his own teammates family by similar means and barely recognizes their presence let alone have any remorse for said teammate....?

I cringe just thinking about how Tony's role was so inorganically placed in the story.

 

[Smashlilman]

You're missing my point. I agree with everything you stated btw.... my point was the motivations for him to be pro registration act in general are very flawed storytelling imo. They seem shoehorned in to create conflict.

He feels such remorse for this perfect stranger and him killing the womans son inadvertently yet he decimates his own teammates family by similar means and barely recognizes their presence let alone have any remorse for said teammate....?

I cringe just thinking about how Tony's role was so inorganically placed in the story.

In the Avengers Tony has a near death experience with a Nuke. In Ironman 3 (sutters :/) he develops PSD and because of it and start's building Remote controlled drone system to do the fighting for him. In Avengers: Age of Ultron he creates Ultron which nearly wipes out all life on the Planet and is directly responsible for the deaths of Hundreds of Sakovians. In Civil War Tony is left vulnerable alone in his personal life because of the absence of Pepper and he feel personally responsible for what happen in Sakovia. What makes the one kid stand out above the rest is that he's the son of a State department official. She works under Secretary Ross who is the Secretary of State. Those are the people that Tony interacts with on a regular basis. Which brought his death to close to home. It is implied that she constantly hounds him and rubs the death of her son in his face every change she sees him and he blames him self and his past actions for leading to his death and the death of others many others.

Imagine if you ran over a group of school kids in yourself driving car because the autopilot malfunctioned and then later on you find out that one of those kids belonged to a client you have to interact with at worker everyday.

 

[AvengerPA]

When Tony went after Wanda at the start of the airport battle, why was he targeting her instead of going after Bucky, the point his being there?

 

[jaymes_e06]

In the Avengers Tony has a near death experience with a Nuke. In Ironman 3 (sutters :/) he develops PSD and because of it and start's building Remote controlled drone system to do the fighting for him. In Avengers: Age of Ultron he creates Ultron which nearly wipes out all life on the Planet and is directly responsible for the deaths of Hundreds of Sakovians. In Civil War Tony is left vulnerable alone in his personal life because of the absence of Pepper and he feel personally responsible for what happen in Sakovia. What makes the one kid stand out above the rest is that he's the son of a State department official. She works under Secretary Ross who is the Secretary of State. Those are the people that Tony interacts with on a regular basis. Which brought his death to close to home. It is implied that she constantly hounds him and rubs the death of her son in his face every change she sees him and he blames him self and his past actions for leading to his death and the death of others many others.

Imagine if you ran over a group of school kids in yourself driving car because the autopilot malfunctioned and then later on you find out that one of those kids belonged to a client you have to interact with at worker everyday.

No... you're still not getting it... and where was it implied she "hounded him" he only had one interaction with her before the meat of the events of CW took place?

How is that diffrent from the person who you go out on missions with who's saved your life also most likely and is supposed to have your six? I would put more stock into her opinion than some random chick...

Anyway this is veering way too far off topic so we'll have to finish the conversation in another thread or through PM.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

When Tony went after Wanda at the start of the airport battle, why was he targeting her instead of going after Bucky, the point his being there?

Because she's by far the most powerful member of Cap's team and biggest threat.

 

[AvengerPA]

But why does he stop to talk to Clint and Wanda after he starts fighting them? I think he was offering Wanda a chance to come back home with him and they will pretend she wasn't actually there.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

But why does he stop to talk to Clint and Wanda after he starts fighting them? I think he was offering Wanda a chance to come back home with him and they will pretend she wasn't actually there.

Because he does want her to come back and join his side. Iron Man doesn't want to have this fight at all. He feels he has no choice because if he doesn't the government/military/etc. will come down on all of them and it will end up worse for everybody.

That's what makes the film so tragic. Neither side wants to fight the other but they feel compelled to based on their views.

 

[ScarlettW]

Because he does want her to come back and join his side. Iron Man doesn't want to have this fight at all. He feels he has no choice because if he doesn't the government/military/etc. will come down on all of them and it will end up worse for everybody.

That's what makes the film so tragic. Neither side wants to fight the other but they feel compelled to based on their views.

He had 36 hours, enough time to go to Siberia with Steve and co. to see if what Bucky said about Zemo was true.

 

[metaphysician]

That doesn't mean it isn't what Tony is thinking. He can be honest and wrong; in fact, the movie puts a lot of effort into establishing how Tony can be sincere yet wrong most of the time.

 

[Rote]

He had 36 hours, enough time to go to Siberia with Steve and co. to see if what Bucky said about Zemo was true.

He hadn't 36 hours. He said it to Steve in the airport: "Ross gave me 36 hours to bring you in. That was 24 hours ago."

 

[Dark Raven]

Anyone care to do a manip of Elizabeth Olsen in the gypsy Scarlet Witch costume?

 

[scarlet-witch]

I wanted Tony to show more remorse towards Wanda when he saw her at the raft prison at the end. He already failed by talking to Wanda about her confinement in the the first place. But to see her in that straight jacket, that should've triggered something. I thought I maybe saw a flick of remorse in RDJ's eyes. But I wanted more or to at least hear them talk.

 

[AvengerPA]

I am unhappy that she didn't get to talk in the prison scene. I think that she would be as defiant as the others, and would be proud to be in jail for Captain America's sake.

 

[ScarlettW]

He hadn't 36 hours. He said it to Steve in the airport: "Ross gave me 36 hours to bring you in. That was 24 hours ago."

So he has 12 hours, which should be enough time to go to Siberia!

 

[ScarlettW]

I am unhappy that she didn't get to talk in the prison scene. I think that she would be as defiant as the others, and would be proud to be in jail for Captain America's sake.

If I'm not wrong, when Tony is there talking to the others, we only see Scott, Clint and Sam. We never see Wanda. I think because of her powers, she was in a special cell.
Tony only saw Wanda through the monitor.

 

[Mike5575]

If I'm not wrong, when Tony is there talking to the others, we only see Scott, Clint and Sam. We never see Wanda. I think because of her powers, she was in a special cell.
Tony only saw Wanda through the monitor.

Pretty much, and I'd even go as far as saying he felt sorry for her. Wanda was likely drugged, as well.

 

[dyl1dyl]

I think a short 10-15 seconds spent with Tony getting upset with Ross at her treatment and asking to see her would have been nice

 

[ScarlettW]

I think a short 10-15 seconds spent with Tony getting upset with Ross at her treatment and asking to see her would have been nice

Ross was upset with Tony because of the airport, he even threatened to put him there. If Tony had complained about Wanda, it would have been worse.
In addition, he was just there to find out where Steve was.

 

[gildedmuse]

You're missing my point. I agree with everything you stated btw.... my point was the motivations for him to be pro registration act in general are very flawed storytelling imo. They seem shoehorned in to create conflict.

He feels such remorse for this perfect stranger and him killing the womans son inadvertently yet he decimates his own teammates family by similar means and barely recognizes their presence let alone have any remorse for said teammate....?

I cringe just thinking about how Tony's role was so inorganically placed in the story.

I wanted Tony to show more remorse towards Wanda when he saw her at the raft prison at the end. He already failed by talking to Wanda about her confinement in the the first place. But to see her in that straight jacket, that should've triggered something. I thought I maybe saw a flick of remorse in RDJ's eyes. But I wanted more or to at least hear them talk.

While Tony never outright says anything, the way they show Wanda both first and separate so that we see Tony's regret as a reaction to her and not the imrisonment in general along with his earlier actions and comments to/about Wanda show that Tony is pretty deeply concerned over Wanda in a way that exceeds his worry over the other avengers. Steve is in a leadership position with Wanda and like an officer in a war presume fly feels that paternal/faternal sense of obligation towards her, but Tony doesn't work with Wanda. All his feelings of responsibility towards her - and I believe the movie makes it clear that he does try to take care of her - stem not so much from an active relationship, but from however it is Tony sees her. It could be as a victim of hydra experiments who never could have fully consented to these powers she can barely control, or a sister whose first heroic act saw her lose her brother, or as a child whose parents were killed by Stark weapons, or a little bit of all above.

Point is whatever the reasons Tony does react to Wanda's fate and is obviously concerned about her. You don't always need to have something stated in the dialogue, and I feel like having Tony look so broken up when he sees her and then quickly trying to mask that reaction from Ross was the films way of emphasizing Tony's full guilt over what has happened.

I may have jokingly referred to the movie as Captain America/Iron Man: Civil Custody Battle since so many scenes featuring the accords seem to be framed around Steve's and Tony's difference in parental styles when it comes to Wanda.

 

[AvengerPA]

Does Tony really believe that Wanda is a weapon of mass destruction? He looks embarrassed saying it. Is that something that someone else told him?

 

[Silvermoon]

Does Tony really believe that Wanda is a weapon of mass destruction? He looks embarrassed saying it. Is that something that someone else told him?

Given that Ross equated Thor and Hulk/Banner with nukes - Wanda being equated to a WMD is probably something that he's been throwing and Tony (whether by accident or not) parroted it.

 

[AvengerPA]

http://i65.tinypic.com/wmfsc2.png

http://i65.tinypic.com/m960d3.jpg

 

[Mike5575]

Given that Ross equated Thor and Hulk/Banner with nukes - Wanda being equated to a WMD is probably something that he's been throwing and Tony (whether by accident or not) parroted it.

That's a good point.

Nukes have a right to freedom and self-determination!