Days of Future Past Should/Could a "NEW" Timeline be created under Vaughn's helm?

[Piz]

I'm wondering what continuity issues, if any, The Wolverine will bring to the franchise that we would potentially want corrected in Days of Future's Past. I think this film will provide a certain level of satisfaction, amongst us fans, so long as the continuity contradictions are resolved and they are able to move forward with X-Men films that are 1). Believable amongst us fans, 2). Makes sense, and 3). True to the nature of the characters and the comics (which tie in to 1 and 2) No matter what route they decide to take, as long as this is reached, I'm sure most of us will be satisfied.

As far as the relationship with Charles and Mystique goes, I think it would have made more sense if Emma and Mystique had assumed each others roles.

 

[Asteroid-Man]

star wars was numbered by episodes. so bad example their. first movie that came out was called episode IV. the prequels continued by being called episode I, II, III, pretty easy to follow.

but here is a list of the x-men movies
x-men
x2:x-men united
x-men: the last stand
x-men origins: wolverine
x-men first class

see the difference?

Actually the first one just said "Star Wars" - it wasn't until ESB came out that they put "Episode V".

 

[The Guard]

Even in the crawl?

 

[Great Mind(s)]

Yeah it was just Star Wars. I believe he re-released it before ESB with the new subtitle.

 

[DigificWriter]

Re: SW: Even though the original release of A New Hope lacked the Episode IV designator, it was still the fourth installment in a wider serial story.

 

[danoyse]

Actually the first one just said "Star Wars" - it wasn't until ESB came out that they put "Episode V".

Actually, it was added in the 1978 re-release.

 

[Asteroid-Man]

Re-release doesn't count.

 

[Kar]

They're really making it harder than it needs to be, Singer and Vaughn. Whyyyyyy not just come out and say "okay guys its a reboot?" It has damn near all the elements of one, in the sense of it ignoring the events of previous movies. In my opinion people saying this is incontinuity with the other films is like saying "Batman Begins" is a prequel to Batman '89. Like what possessed him to write this script and completely disregard so much that has been set in stone in XM1-3 and then call it a prequel? Doesn't make sense to me but **** it. I still watch and treat First Class as a reboot and I like to look at it that way. If they MUST further establish it as incontinuity then I'm with everyone else that says DoFP should go the "Star Trek" route.

And people trying to connect "The Wolverine" to this should just stop, seeing as how its not even connected to Origins. Its just a standalone story using Wolverine and of course they're gonna use Jackman cause he's fhe face of Wolverine, like his cameo Easter egg in First Class. I saw it and still don't think it connects to the other films. I just took it as homage to the other movies.

But hey whatever helps you all sleep at night.

 

[Angamb]

if it was a reboot, they would have used young Cyclops, Jean, Storm and a few other big x-men. Kar.

But they used Havok, Banshee and Beast, the older x-men in the original trilogy. So its clearly a prequel with creative liberties. They want to connect all the movies, so we have to accept that, and maybe in 10 years Fox reboot the franchise, but not right now, with Singer on board.

 

[marvelrobbins]

As I keep saying there Is plenty to connect First Class to Singer's films.A reboot means
everything Is disregarded.Star Trek used alternate timeline to remain part of same series.James Bond films want to have It both way.Still be considered part of same series
but Ignore everything that has come before.

And If first Class was a reboot they would have scrapped the Wolverine and recast wolverine for reboot.

 

[X-Maniac]

They're really making it harder than it needs to be, Singer and Vaughn. Whyyyyyy not just come out and say "okay guys its a reboot?" It has damn near all the elements of one, in the sense of it ignoring the events of previous movies. In my opinion people saying this is incontinuity with the other films is like saying "Batman Begins" is a prequel to Batman '89. Like what possessed him to write this script and completely disregard so much that has been set in stone in XM1-3 and then call it a prequel? Doesn't make sense to me but **** it. I still watch and treat First Class as a reboot and I like to look at it that way. If they MUST further establish it as incontinuity then I'm with everyone else that says DoFP should go the "Star Trek" route.

And people trying to connect "The Wolverine" to this should just stop, seeing as how its not even connected to Origins. Its just a standalone story using Wolverine and of course they're gonna use Jackman cause he's fhe face of Wolverine, like his cameo Easter egg in First Class. I saw it and still don't think it connects to the other films. I just took it as homage to the other movies.

But hey whatever helps you all sleep at night.

I think they just didn't want to ditch everything they had done before. Many things worked well in the original set of films, it's not like they were all terribly reviewed box office flops, so why throw it all out?

 

[Kar]

That explanation makes sense, X-Maniac. I looked at it as a prequel up until Xavier ended up crippled at the end. Unless of course maybe for the sequel he's walking again revealing it was temporary paralysis? I dunno. Just suggesting stuff to make it work.

 

[souvlaki]

Doesn't First Class only contradict Last Stand, Wolverine and like one line in the first X-Men movie? The most likely answer to me is that they simply ignored everything done by someone other than Singer which makes sense considering Singer's involvement in First Class.

Edit- Looks like I should have read the rest of the thread first before commenting because it appears as if this has already been discussed ad nauseam. Guess it's just selective continuity. Sure wouldn't be the first time something Singer was involved in was guilty of this.

 

[lancimouspitt]

Okay, i'm going to try to change direction a little.
How about things in FC that do line up with the trilogy or you can imply they did?

Two things come to my mind.

1. Magneto in the train station. "Care to press your luck charles. I don't think I can stop them all."
If you watch FC and X1 back to back it makes that scene even more powerful.

2. Beast when he see's Mystique in X3. "Yes she can do that."
Alone that doesn't seem like much but when you watch FC then X3 it's almost like you can see an unspoken history in Hanks eyes.

 

[Alex Logan]

I think they just didn't want to ditch everything they had done before. Many things worked well in the original set of films, it's not like they were all terribly reviewed box office flops, so why throw it all out?

You don't need to throw everything out, but there's a lot of stuff that needs to go.

Let me ask you a question. Why pay so much homage to another director? Just look what Singer did with Superman Returns, that was ridiculous. I know Singer is involved to some extent, but this is Vaughn's film and it should feel like it.

Vaughn gave an interview were he said that he made the film HE wanted to make. Look what we got from that. That is the way it should be.

 

[marvelrobbins]

First Class was always designed to be seen as both prequel to SInger's films and a film
that could be seen fresh.Vaughn even said he went back and watched the best of films(X2) again after coming on.

 

[X-Maniac]

You don't need to throw everything out, but there's a lot of stuff that needs to go.

Let me ask you a question. Why pay so much homage to another director? Just look what Singer did with Superman Returns, that was ridiculous. I know Singer is involved to some extent, but this is Vaughn's film and it should feel like it.

Vaughn gave an interview were he said that he made the film HE wanted to make. Look what we got from that. That is the way it should be.

So what do you think should go, and what should stay?

Vaughn may have made the film he wanted - and it did feel very much like a Vaughn film (much more edgy, quirky and sexual than Singer tends to be) but Matthew did take into account the Singer movies with the look of Mystique, the re-creation of the X1 opening scene, the cameos by Jackman and Rebecca Romijn, etc.

Some elements of First Class do contradict what was in Singer's films (Xavier said in X1 he was 17 when he met Erik, he appeared not to know the function of Magneto's helmet in X1, he said Erik helped him build Cerebro) and some contradict the other X-films (a different Emma Frost from the one in XMO: W and Xavier being paralysed prior to the time of the opening sequence of X3 and the closing scene of XMO: W)

The problem is the selective continuity in what is a prequel. That's what casual moviegoers have begun to notice. This franchise shouldn't be like those 'pick and mix' confectionery stores where you just a bit of this, a bit of that, none of those.

First Class wasn't an obvious reboot (because of the nods to the previous films) and not a precise prequel either (because of what it ignored/retconned).

If Vaughn really wanted to do his own thing, then they should have declared a total reboot not done this halfway, pseudo, faux-reboot-prequel-preboot-requel thing!

 

[marvelrobbins]

Many TV shows and franchises conderdict what was said In dialogue(go back and watch the first season of Star Trek and you will find many things are said which conterdict the later established cannon.George Lucas when he did Star Wars prequels did exactly stick to what he established.Empire strike back has Obi wan saying Luke was their last hope conterdicted by Yoda.Obi-wan tells Luke In Return of the Jedi Anakin was already a great pilot when they met.Leia had memories of her real mother) most of conterdictions to X-Men and X2 with first Class are about dialogue of past(which again X-Men Is hardly first franchise or TV show to do It) the only real serious contradiction Is about Magneto's helmet.It's the non singer films where we had real probelms.Let's only worry about the Last Stand since no one seems concerned with keeping connection to X-Men Origins:Wolverine.The opening scene Is totally conterdicted by First Class.Beast's appearance doesn't fit.Moira Is totally Inconsent with age and accent between First Class and Last Stand.

First Class has one foot In the door as being part of Singerverse(X-Men and X2) and another foot being fresh film.Vaughn followed Singer's attitude of treating first Class as scifi/Fantasy film with action Instead of just being all about action(See The Last Stand) Vaughn keeps seriousness and darkness of Singer's films with more humor and being more sexy.Vaughn Is more able to embrace spectucle with action but unlike some(Say Brett Ratner) he knows to have good story and characters and keeps It so It feels like connected to Singer's films.

Days of future past will connect more First Class with Singer films X-Men/X2

 

[The Guard]

FIRST CLASS is kind of the anti-SUPERMAN RETURNS, in that it's a loose/vague prequel instead of a loose/vague sequel.

I think it could be argued though that FIRST CLASS had more direct connections/callbacks, etc to Singer's X-franchise than SUPERMAN RETURNS had to Donner's Superman film/s.

 

[X-Maniac]

FIRST CLASS is kind of the anti-SUPERMAN RETURNS, in that it's a loose/vague prequel instead of a loose/vague sequel.

I think it could be argued though that FIRST CLASS had more direct connections/callbacks, etc to Singer's X-franchise than SUPERMAN RETURNS had to Donner's Superman film/s.

Maybe so. Superman Returns re-created elements of the Donner films like the aircraft plunge/rescue (originally a helicopter), Luther's landgrab plot. It was equally criticised for vague or selective continuity.

If they used DoFP to 'do a Star Trek' and create a new timeline, then they can do whatever they want. Until that happens, too many obvious contradictions are going to be jarring - especially for the fans and forum-dwelling nitpickers but also for the general audience, who are beginning to notice things don't line up.

 

[Alex Logan]

So what do you think should go, and what should stay?

This is easy, needs to go:

1. Making the film about two or three characters instead of the whole team.

2. Rogue! Give us the real deal or leave her out. Same goes for other powerful characters. If you're afraid to make them powerful then don't use them or get off the movie.

3. Making Magneto look like a weak old man instead of a bad ass who can take on the whole team.

4. The love triangle.

5. The horrible costumes. It worked in The Matrix, but this is X-Men not Neo and Trinity.

6. Mystique being portrayed as a total *****.

This is hard. There are not very many things that I like about the first four X-Men films. Needs to stay:

1. The government and most normal people being afraid/against the mutants.

2. Giving each character a purpose and a scene to shine. Wolverine from X2, Storm and Juggernaut from X3.

3. The bad mutants against the good mutants. The was best shown in X3, which is the film that I have the least problems with.

Vaughn may have made the film he wanted - and it did feel very much like a Vaughn film (much more edgy, quirky and sexual than Singer tends to be) but Matthew did take into account the Singer movies with the look of Mystique, the re-creation of the X1 opening scene, the cameos by Jackman and Rebecca Romijn, etc.

You're right. The opening came from Singer, but it had a purpose this time. Eric going after Shaw was brilliant. In X-Men it seemed pointless, it was like it was only put there because Singer is obsessed with that stuff.

And the part with Wolverine was the greatest cameo on film... ever. I liked seeing Rebecca, but it didn't make sense.

Some elements of First Class do contradict what was in Singer's films (Xavier said in X1 he was 17 when he met Erik, he appeared not to know the function of Magneto's helmet in X1, he said Erik helped him build Cerebro) and some contradict the other X-films (a different Emma Frost from the one in XMO: W and Xavier being paralysed prior to the time of the opening sequence of X3 and the closing scene of XMO: W)

I really don't mind these elements.

The problem is the selective continuity in what is a prequel. That's what casual moviegoers have begun to notice. This franchise shouldn't be like those 'pick and mix' confectionery stores where you just a bit of this, a bit of that, none of those.

True.

First Class wasn't an obvious reboot (because of the nods to the previous films) and not a precise prequel either (because of what it ignored/retconned).

True again.

If Vaughn really wanted to do his own thing, then they should have declared a total reboot not done this halfway, pseudo, faux-reboot-prequel-preboot-requel thing!

Very true, but I love what we got!

FIRST CLASS is kind of the anti-SUPERMAN RETURNS, in that it's a loose/vague prequel instead of a loose/vague sequel.

I think it could be argued though that FIRST CLASS had more direct connections/callbacks, etc to Singer's X-franchise than SUPERMAN RETURNS had to Donner's Superman film/s.

You're kidding right? Superman Returns was Singer's attempt to kneel before Donner. There was nothing original about that film, it should have said "Directed by Richard Donner" in the opening credits.

 

[The Guard]

In X-Men it seemed pointless, it was like it was only put there because Singer is obsessed with that stuff.

I feel like you completely missed the point of that sequence.

 

[marvelrobbins]

I can't take anyone seriously who called X-Men the last Stand best of X-Men films.

 

[X-Maniac]

I can't take anyone seriously who called X-Men the last Stand best of X-Men films.

But, still, there are some good points for debate in what was said, rather than the usual 'I hate Fox', 'Give the rights back to Marvel' ranting and raving.

 

[marvelrobbins]

People also need to read up on the comics version of Days of future past and forget about watered down version for 90's animation done when Bishop was popular character which he hasn't been In years.