Should Luke Cage get his own on-going?

[Arach Knight]

1)The qualities you described about Luke Cage were also true for Spider-Man, Superman, Batman and Cyclops. Each is either married and had a child...married and has a child, is married, or has a child. yet, the characters I listed are all top of their class in terms of popularity. Only Joe Quesada should be sad enough to hold the idea that people hate seeing married super heroes. It really isn't the end of the world.

2)I realize that Luke Cage pummeled the Goblin, but we have to take into account that Spidey has undergone frequent upgrades. That 10 ton limit he used to have, hasn't been accurate for a while now. Didn't he just get another strength upgrade after The Other?

3)There was really a What If called "What if there were a Wonder Woman and Power Girl in the Marvel Univerise"?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

The official stance on post-Other Spider-Man that I've heard is only class 15. So, really, Spider-Man's about the same as he's always been.

There wasn't a comic, it was just one joke in an issue full of What If jokes.

 

[Varient]

Luke Cage is a severly underestimated character. He is no Batman, but he is a fairly capable detective and he can speak multiple languages. I think too many writers get caught up in the "black and street wise" image, and tend to revert him to the idea of blaxploitation, rather than capitalizing on a really terrific character.

I agree.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Batman isn't married. He has kids.

 

[Varient]

in color,.. Too Bad BushMaster is dead,.. I'm thinking a story with him teaming up with Graviton, Count Nefarious, and The squadron Supreme would be a great New avengers story.

 

[deemar325]

I'm going to say it, even though it doesn't belong on this thread,.. or on this board:
IMPO the reason why the Panthers sales are ALWAYS so low is that it steps on too many toes to consider that a Black man can out prep time their favorites, out money or out tech their favorites, in too many cases out fight their favs,... all who happen to be white,..

It doesn't matter if it's understated,.. or not drawn overly into the Marvel Mainstream - just think back to the howling when BP beat Captain America,... or when BP beat Iron Man THREE TIMES in THREE FIGHTS that Tony Stark STARTED.


Tack onto that that the character is difficult to relate to with a large portion of the reader base being able to suspend belief on Norse Gods and InHumans on the moon,.. but these same readers goggle and argue that an african nation made up of high tech black folk can't exist in any world,....

For some strange reason,... it's not palatable for the majority of readers that someone they can't relate to can do what the panther can,.... and he's what would be classed a "street-level" hero.



All that Keeps the Black Panther from taking off.

Luke Cage is relatable IMPO because the character resonates with those who are lower middleclass to upper middle class, who have Blue and white collar level jobs, who tend to prefer to want to do the right thing regardless of what the concequences may be.

In my mind his closest equiv on the white side remains Ben Grimm,.... followed by Captain America.
(Waiting for the flaming to begin.)


V.

I think your reading my mind.

I think that's a big reason why BP isn't a major character for Marvel, a lot of fandom won't admit such things, but I believe them to be true.

I've had many converstions with fellow comicbooks fans who decry Black Panther yet a Norse God, a white (Not Asian!) martial arts master form a mystical city, and a alien child who crash lands on a kansas farm who happens to look white is easy to believe or relate too but a Black Noble King who is from a line of Noble kings and has vast technology and resources is farfetched?

Yeah there is something really wrong with this picture.

 

[Varient]

He might be up there with Colosus. He DID help knock out the Wrecker.
But I mentioned the former instead because I think the Wrecker fight was bad writing.

i read that a lot from both sides of the coin.
Some of us think that all the avengers present one on one could've done a better job,.....

Others think that the shouldn't been able to beat him.

Me? last I read prior to the fight,..the wrecking crew was out and commiting crimes. this means that the asgardian power the wrecker runs with was divided by 4,... five if you count piledrivers son.

So at 40- 50 ton level he'd been a handfull for pete and luke,.. but they could've taken him,... with his crew out he was closer to 10 - 15,.... Spiderwoman should've been able to rut - zap - subdue him.

but everyone for whatever reason thought it was bad writing.

Peace.

 

[Varient]

Or the ability to bounce around and avoid everything they throw at him with minor precognition. The fact that he's taken down those types of guys by standing his ground and straight-up brawling has to mean that his strength level has gone way up, regardless of what those outdated Handbooks say. I'd say he's at least class 30 to 50 by now and, again, that's way more than the vast majority of street-level heroes have.

i agree.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

in color,.. Too Bad BushMaster is dead,.. I'm thinking a story with him teaming up with Graviton, Count Nefarious, and The squadron Supreme would be a great New avengers story.

It might be, except for the fact that the New Avengers wouldn't stand a chance in hell. I'm not saying they'd be underdogs, either. I'm saying it'd be impossible by every definition of the word for them to ever win.

 

[RockSP]

I also wish Statik Shock from that tv show was in a continuim. He had much appeal.

The character is called Static and he's a part of the Milestone universe which was distributed by DC. The comics were around long before the tv show.

 

[32CAGE]

He's already respected, isn't he? He's a lot stronger now than he was to begin with, too. I wouldn't want to see him all the way up at the 90-100+ range, myself. I don't want to see "super-strong" become synonymous with "mountain-juggling." I'd say around class 50 or 60 should be the highest he gets to.

No he isn't. It he was there wouldn't be so many fanboys saying he's too weak and underpowered to be an Avenger. I believe in the 60 ton range would be about right.

 

[deemar325]

I like Luke just the way he is.

 

[RockSP]

No he isn't. It he was there wouldn't be so many fanboys saying he's too weak and underpowered to be an Avenger.

those fanboys must not know Cap, Hawkeye, Mockingbird, Falcon, Black Widow, Black Panther, Swordsman....

I can go on...

 

[TheCorpulent1]

No he isn't. It he was there wouldn't be so many fanboys saying he's too weak and underpowered to be an Avenger. I believe in the 60 ton range would be about right.

Most of the fanboy b****ing I've heard about the New Avengers roster is not that Luke is too weak to be an Avenger, it's that almost the entire roster is too weak to be a real threat to any villains. The only heavyweights they've got are Iron Man and the Sentry, and then Luke is a good mid-range powerhouses, and then the majority of the team drops down to street-level.

 

[Arach Knight]

Everybody on that team except Captain America, Daredevil (whatever his fake I.D. was) and Wolverine, have super strength of the class 15 (Spider-Man and Spider-Woman) variety or above. Beyond that, they have three characters that are near invulnerable (Luke and Tony), one that is truly invulnerable (Sentry) and have three (Cap, DD and Logan) that are hand to hand combat experts. They are far from weak. Perhaps a bit unbalanced (they lack flyers, energy projectors, telepaths etc), but definetly not weak. This is better than most previous incarnations of the Avengers.

 

[Varient]

whoa.

It's been awhile since I watched the hype ramp up to get technical in regards to P&A's,....

Oh well,.. Arach Knight Threw down the gauntlet by saying " They are far from weak. Perhaps a bit unbalanced (they lack flyers, energy projectors, telepaths etc), but definetly not weak. This is better than most previous incarnations of the Avengers".___

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Class 15 doesn't count for much against most of the Avengers' traditional enemies. Also, recall that the b****ing started back in the early issues, when the Sentry was not a part of the team. The opinion that the New Avengers are of a relatively low power level has also been reinforced by a couple of factors in the issues: 1) that Bendis writes Spider-Man like Ultimate Spider-Man, and he generally makes him out to be far weaker and less competent than he usually is, and 2) that the NA have fought primarily low-level threats without even a mention of the Sentry. The biggest threat they've faced was the Collective, and the Sentry got called in for that and everything was fine. But before that it was ninjas and small-time supervillains who are either weak or too dumb to use what power they have effectively. How are you not supposed to view them as weak when they're having a tough time against ninjas before Iron Man suddenly remembers that his armor has weapons?

All that said, I do agree on the point that they're not technically weak so much as heavily, heavily unbalanced compared to previous Avengers teams.

 

[Arach Knight]

I'm not going to deny it. They did use to have heavy hitters like Thor and Hulk on the team, but even still, Sentry is easily more powerful than either of those characters. I'm not going to argue who they battle more often, because truthfully, I hated the Avengers almost as much as I hate the Fantastic Four. I was actually quite glad when they disbanded the team, with Avengers Disassembled. I tried to get into their books...I even tried to read Avengers West Coast, but I just really hated the older incarnations.

But I gave the new ones a chance. Regardless of the greater comedic value and more marketable team, the fact remains that they are a very solid line up of characters, in terms of contribution to the team. If you take away Thor and Hulk from the old version (with Captain America, Wasp, Antman and Ironman) you get a team of piss ants basically. But if you took Sentry away, you still get a team of pretty bad ass power houses. So yes, the New Avengers don't fight anything amazing (yet), but at least the team is more enjoyable. The only old Avengers I miss, are Warmachine (Avengers West Coast) and of course, Flint...the man himself...Hawkeye.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Most of the fanboy b****ing I've heard about the New Avengers roster is not that Luke is too weak to be an Avenger, it's that almost the entire roster is too weak to be a real threat to any villains. The only heavyweights they've got are Iron Man and the Sentry, and then Luke is a good mid-range powerhouses, and then the majority of the team drops down to street-level.

Agreed. They usually carry people like Thor, Iron Man, Wonder Man, and Ms. Marvel as heavy hitters year round, and then back them up with heavy other types (Like Justice, Firestar, or Scarlet Witch) and then have lower level characters like Cap and the Wasp. Never before has the team been primarily underpowered like this. The only threat to Ultron (for instance) is Iron Man or the Sentry. And more likely, just the Sentry.


It's not that the team lacks all forms of power or anything. It's just that the team...doesn't compliment itself. It doesn't work too well.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

I'm not going to deny it. They did use to have heavy hitters like Thor and Hulk on the team, but even still, Sentry is easily more powerful than either of those characters. I'm not going to argue who they battle more often, because truthfully, I hated the Avengers almost as much as I hate the Fantastic Four. I was actually quite glad when they disbanded the team, with Avengers Disassembled. I tried to get into their books...I even tried to read Avengers West Coast, but I just really hated the older incarnations.

But I gave the new ones a chance. Regardless of the greater comedic value and more marketable team, the fact remains that they are a very solid line up of characters, in terms of contribution to the team. If you take away Thor and Hulk from the old version (with Captain America, Wasp, Antman and Ironman) you get a team of piss ants basically. But if you took Sentry away, you still get a team of pretty bad ass power houses. So yes, the New Avengers don't fight anything amazing (yet), but at least the team is more enjoyable. The only old Avengers I miss, are Warmachine (Avengers West Coast) and of course, Flint...the man himself...Hawkeye.

Actually, Cap, Wasp, Antman, and Iron Man are all fairly powerful members. Wasp being at a very small size was still at full strength (actually, superstrength for a while), and her wasps sting could bring down entire structures. And Ant-Man could also grow. And Iron Man, is well...Iron Man.

The team worked well together too. This current team just doesn't fit. It's like Bendis wanted a team of people who won't get along, work together, define eachother, or help each other when they need it. Luke is too durable to need to be watched over, and too slow to help an inferior Wolverine from being burned to death, who's far too underpowered to stop someone like the Grim Reaper from killing Spider-Man. It's just a super unbalanced team. There's almost ZERO range in the team for any assault. It's like the team has to be on TOP of the problem to solve it.

 

[Arach Knight]

I already cited their lack of ranged fighters, but that aside, I think the entire purpose of that team roster, was to illustrate that Bendis was bringing together people, that are traditionally loners (Sentry, Luke Cage, Spider-Woman, Spider-Man, Daredevil) and making them work together. Nobody wants this to be written just like the Justice League or X-Men. A little dissention in the ranks could go a long way for story telling. Their lack of team work actually got their behinds handed to them in the first arc. As for powerful...Cap isn't powerful. The severe Superman Returns style beating that Tony gave Steve, probably has Steve feeling like any of these hilarious adjectives/pro-nouns etc

a) a red headed bastard step child
b) Jason Todd
c) Dick Grayson when he was beaten by Two Face, with a baseball bat

Captain America has no powers. He is merely given a peak human physical condition, by artificial means. But a person can easily achieve that same level of physique, through actual hard work (such as Batman). Cap's only credit in super heroics, are his amazing fighting abilities, but unless you want to go the Ultimates route, where he is smashing Hulk in the face and taking down Giant Man bare handed, then Cap isn't going to be such a threat up against most mid-tier super beings. Then again, Cap has taken down Skrulls in the past. So his prowess is always being exaggerated to some degree. And Giant Man...no where near as powerful as Spidey, Ironman or Sentry. Wasp is effective...but meh. Without Thor or Hulk, I could see the Avengers losing their fights against most any team they take on. Again, referencing the Ultimate universe, didn't a Hulkless team of Ultimates, actually lose against a slightly under powered group of X-Men?

 

[roach]

I dont have an issue with Cage being an Avenger. My issue is that this team has no balance. Why do you need two or Marvel's best fighters on the same team???? You already have Cap why bring in Wolverine??? You already have Spiderwoman why bring in Spider-man

 

[Arach Knight]

Sloth beat me to it. Money is always the issue at hand (no pun intended). Look at how many books Wolverine is in. Astonishing, Wolverine, Wolverine Origins...and I believe he is in Adjectiveless X-Men, with Rouge, Iceman, Havok etc. Then of course Spider-Man is in Amazing, Friendly Neighborhood, Marvel Knights etc. They are plastered everywhere becuase they are easily Marvel's two most popular characters. They are the Batman and Superman of the 616. Marvel ****es them out at any given opportunity. With that said however, I very much agree that the team balance is severly lopsided. I think they are actually an over powered team.

 

[Varient]

A lot has been happening with Cage since Civil War began, and since joing the New Avengers. Getting married, having a baby girl with Jessica Jones, and now joining Cap's "Secret Avengers" in CW, against Iron Man's Pro Reg side.

I think it'd be a great series, with the right writer, and artist. I'd love to see Cage in his own title, probably when Civil War is midway to ending. Or probably afterward.

What do you guys think? And would anyone like to see Cage don his own costume?

I'm thinking the story should go that he dons his old costumer on a lark and it gets trashed on national tv,...

 

[Darthphere]

Chuck Austen and Phillip Tan on Luke Cage!