Simple Test Dummy: Sans Routh, which suit is "stronger"?

Discussion in 'Superman Returns' started by Spare-Flair, May 11, 2006.

  1. gdw Registered

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    Actually, a more open neck line makes the neck look bigger. the tight one actualy accentuates the smaller neck.

    Just look at how the wider one even makes the dumy's neck look beigger, and he doesn't even have a neck :D
     
  2. Wushuboy Registered

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    Here;'s what i would have liked to have seen. Sorry for the poor quality of work. Im a newbie at photoshop. But i would have liked to have seen a slightly vertically longer shield.. the width is fine, I just think it needs to be longer heightwise. The neckline shouldnt be round.. it's always been a straight line so it should stay that way. Maybe not so low as to be by the collar bone but maybe right above it and it should be a straight line across so you still maintain that line across the shoulders. It's the round neckline opening that sucks.. if they made it straight it would have been much better. This also affects the cape attachment and gives him slightly more room to breath. Im sure the cape attachment would have looked much better if they had gone with a straight opening because it maintains that triangular red shape on both sides whereas with the new attachment you dont see that most of the time. I think in this way you have a good compromise between what you have now and the classic comic book costume most are accustomed to.

    [​IMG]
     
  3. gdw Registered

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    YES!!!, Perfect, the neckline that is. Se, now this is even what ALL of the art of the SR costume has done. They have kept the tighter collar, but it's not right up choking his neck.

    This would have been beautiful. My GOD why did they screw this up?
     
  4. gdw Registered

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    It just has so much more of a heroic look to it.
     
  5. War Lord Registered

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    but paper tears so easily.
     
  6. Wushuboy Registered

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    the problem with the current attachment is that it comes from the side of his neck and flows out.. In most incarnations ive seen, superman's cape attachment has been in the front right by his collar bone and it flows up and back over his shoulders. I hope they change it for the sequel. Right now i hope i'll enjoy the movie and i like routh but the design decisions still irk me a little bit.
     
  7. batman44 Go Speed GO

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    That's even better Wushuboy:up:
     
  8. Wushuboy Registered

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    [​IMG]

    I tried to photoshop it to take out the cape so you could see what it maybe would have looked like to have a straight opening compared to the tshirt like opening of the real suit. As you can see there's really not much difference and i didnt do too much other than made the front of the opening a straight line. It's still pretty tight around the neck... it's just he has those two straight corners now in the front. Those who like the tighter neckline might like this rendition.. hopefully anyway and maybe can accept it. Superman's neckline has always been similar to this shape to my knowledge and never just a round tshirt like opening. The design of Reeve's suit was nice but not perfect and neither is Routh's but a combination of the two would have been great.

    Also i think that straight neckline looks a bit more alien to me because most ppl dont wear clothes that have this kind of neckline. Most people wear clothes with that round tshirt collar and so it's familiar to us. Most wetsuits have this kind of collar as well i believe so the Routh suit kinda looks like like an embellished wetsuit. This is just my opinion though.
     
  9. lujho Registered

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    Agreed on all points, including the vertically lengthened S.

    Your version is reminiscent of people like Curt Swan (a high neckline is NOT a new thing), Frank Quitely, Stuart Immonen, Jim Lee. They ALL have a tight neckline but they maintain the straight vertical line, which is formed not only by the collar but the edge of the cape.

    The difference is everything.

    Here's one I was doing before I saw yours - same idea, slightly different. The one on the left shows how the cape could occasionally fall over the shoulder as it sometimes does in the comics for a dynamic effect.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. lujho Registered

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    You know, you could theoretically have a big open collar like in the comics and not even see it when the cape's there. Often in the comics when Superman's cape is off it's got this weird straight-across collar (not a big leotard-like curve). The Flash had this kind of collar in the pilot of the TV show. With a cape covering most of that bare area, you wouldn't see how open it really is, but you could tuck the cape in at the front like it is in the comics.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  11. Wushuboy Registered

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    agreed on all points luhjo... i only made it small like that because the tight neckline supporters would have a fit and call it a leotard. I tried to keep elements of both classic and routh suit. But I totally agree with all your points. However I wouldnt want to see superman with his cape draped over his shoulders.. it just doesnt look like su perman to me.. and reminds me too much of batman.
     
  12. lujho Registered

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    Fair enough, but I think it works well. When artists do it, it's usually only occasionally, and most of the time the cape goes back in a traditional manner. Frank Quitely is an anomoly in that he does it like that all the time.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I just think it's nice to have an option of varying the look, even if it's only once or twice in a film. It can work well combined with a slumped, defeated look, for instance.
     
  13. Wushuboy Registered

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    in that case it would work.. but only in certain situations would i find it acceptable.
     
  14. Nightwing1977 Want to see my mask??

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    Not bad. Not bad at all. I like the right one very much. It not too open like Reeve, but it look fine. Same with Spare-Flair 2nd manip he did on the suit. :)
     
  15. Wushuboy Registered

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    Sometimes you dont have to be a big hollywood costume design to know about design and just because Mingenbach has a job in hollywood doesnt mean she makes the right choices.
     
  16. Agnarr Registered

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    Why am I surprised this is still being debated when the film is done and we will all see it next month? :rolleyes:

    -sigh- Everyone needs stuff to obsess over. I get that. And I can also see why Singer chose the higher neckline; imho, it's more aerodynamic. Going supersonic, all that air will go around his neck instead of down the front of the suit. It may not look as good as a lower neckline, but it does makes sense (we just automatically forgive the cape, I guess). At least they didn't go with the original cape attachment, that looked awful, although the idea sounded good.

    I like Singer's version better--the \S/ looks way too big in the photoshop version, like he wouldnt be able to cross his arms because the corners would be digging into his armpits/biceps.

    Whatever. I'm sick of reading about the suit and how people think it should have been.
     
  17. buggs0268 Registered

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    The only reason why Singer went with the hight neckline was becaue they couldnt hide the muscle suit underneth with Superman real neckline. They tried it and it didnt work.

    Even though Minglewhatever says Bryan came in and said a smaller S off the bat, they originally tried the larger S first, and because Bryan wanted a 3D Shield, it would bend weird when he moved and crossed his arms in front of him excpet for the final size we now see. Bryan even said they tried a bigger S. And Tom Bronson said they could not go any bigger with the S if it was to be 3D. The seams tie the muscle suit at crucial points of movement so that it does not go the opposite way then real human muscles would and blow the illusion. They had that problem with creating the suit during B89, and had to make many scuplts and tie the suit in at plces of mobility so it moved realistically with Keatons body and not against it, as early test suits did. The costume designer on that film, I forgot his name, mentioned it a few times in interviews after the films release.

    It has nothing to do with aerodynamics, or any of that othe nonsense. It is all because of the limitations from the muscle suit and the 3D S.
     
  18. skruloos Registered

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    I question the validity of this. I understand this was said by someone who had contacts in the production, but a suit like the one worn by The Flash in the TV series was a muscle suit with an almost neoprene stretch fabric over it and it had no problem with the open neckline, as shown in the pictures elsewhere in this thread.

    Muscle suits aren't think pieces of foam. I don't see why they couldn't build it into the costume and still have integrity in an open collar. Again, refer to the Flash pictures. I don't think it was an impossibility. I think it was a design choice and whoever gave that quote was stating his opinion on why it may have been designed that way.
     
  19. SUPERSEBAS Registered

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    I like the second one, but you forgot to put a more higher boots. and I prefer the belt whitout the little S
     
  20. Scooter Registered

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    I like the SR version from the waste down, but it falls apart at the top.
     
  21. Thot Registered

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    [​IMG]




    [​IMG]

    Easily the one on the top right is far better. Definitely makes the chest area appear wider and beefier, while the neckline gives the neck a thicker apearance. This would have really helped Routh's pencil neck. Cape attachment flows better and makes the trapezius/shoulder area appear wider.
     
  22. JamalYIgle Registered

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    Actually Frank isn't an anamoly since jim Lee does it as well. [​IMG]
     
  23. JamalYIgle Registered

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    I think you are all going to have to get used to this. THe costume has already started to gradually change as of the latest issuie of Superman #652 they've already started using the higher collar and raised sheild.
    Things are changing. By the time Kubert starts his Action Comics in October run the suit will be more like the SR suit.He 's already as much as said it in his Wizard interview.
     
  24. Captain Villa Registered

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    Any pictures ?
     
  25. bsquad Registered

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    I thought the design choices-the high collar, the smaller 'S' for example- were made because they simply looked better on Routh, not just when he was standing still but when he was moving around and actually doing things.
     

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