Singers Vision Of Xmen 3?

[bosef982]

"Malcolm X was a bit more radical. He was not afraid of violence against the oppressors, as he was more of the "fight fire with fire" attitude, that if the white man was going to oppress the blacks, that they were justified in fighting back."

Until he got away from elijah muhammad. His philosphy had radically changed after leaving the Nation of Islam. They killed him when he really was on the verge of great things.

Yes, Malcom X was becoming his own sort of MLK.

What's been said is mostly spot-on. I am 23, however, I just got my B.A. in History. MLK was filled with anger and annoyance and frusteration towards whites, but knew he had to rise above that and set the example. That's why his actions -- like Storm's -- can be seen as more noble than incongrous.

Also, throwing a pity party for yourself does nothing to salvage your points and only demonstrates what I did in my little mock analogy of arguments on SHH

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Bosef, again:

I think you are totally on point in your arguement. There is one part I'd like to address from your first big post:

First and foremost, something that many seem not to grasp is that the X-Men are comic book characters that are translated into film. Why is that amongst the fans of novels, musicals, and other mediums, comic book fans are the only ones who have this near cult-like attachment to faithfullness. The entire concept of adaptation seems lost on them, their own fervor for their preferential interpretation of the comic book apparently overriding decades, if not centuries, worth of dramatic philosophy.

There is no way of saying this that won't come off as pompous, egotistical, arrogant, whatever, so I am just going to say it and state from the get go that my intentions are not to offend (even though they will)

I think it has to do with the form of media that comic books are, and the types of people that read them.

Novels are a more "intelligent" form of medium. It is higher level writing and storytelling, and character development, etc... It relies on stimulating the mind, and making the person think. Novels are a form of entertainment for the educated person. Go to college, it is just expected of you that you read novels.

Comic books are simpler. Their target audience is for children and teenagers. The level of writing is not as complex as novel writing, and instead of relying on stimulating the mind, it relies on pictures and action, and larger than life characters.

(^ This is where the offending comes in. Keep in mind I am NOT saying that comic books are a lesser form of entertainment. I have a stack of X-Men comics myself, and I think that it takes a great deal of imagination to come up with these characters and stories. However, simply put, novels are the educated man's entertainment, comic books are not)

I think because of the form of entertainment that novels are vs. comic books, they tend to have different followings. A movie based on a novel is going to have a higher acknowledgement for change, considering novel readers are probably more interested in the underlying tones and themes, the symbolism, etc... more so than the direct literalness "well this exact occurance happened so it should happen in the movie"

Comic book fans don't always get the symbolism and themes and tones presented in a comic book (see all of the arguments regarding the costumes, or not enough action), and want that literalness, they want the action, they want the "big", and when someone like Singer comes along and presents the tones and themes of the source material, and prioritizes that over flashy uniforms and optic blasts, a lot of the comic book fans just don't "get it", and think because these characters have been toned down from their comic book counterparts, that they were misinterpreted.

Now on to the big debate of the day, and that is Storm. I agree wholeheartedly with everything you said regarding Storm's character. She had plenty to do, and was just as much a part of the movie as Wolverine, or anyone else. I think some people are really just grasping for straws when they say stuff like "Storm should have been shown landing on the snow in X-Men" or "Storm should have left the jet when she created those tornadoes" or "Storm had to be saved by Nightcrawler, so it takes away from what she did"... I really think those are beyond nitpicking. That's just wanting stuff to be there that doesn't need to be there, and just showing that no matter what happens, you're not going to be satisfied.

On that note, I do believe there is some validity to the "Storm wasn't portrayed correctly" arguement. I used to feel that Rogue wasn't portrayed correctly, but then I realized that she actually was, again, in the form of "themes and tones". No, she wasn't flying around, throwing tanks and Sentinels and punching Juggernaut through buildings. But her character; her feelings towards her powers, her being scared, those are very accurate to her character.

After I realized that, I did being to realize where Storm was portrayed incorrectly. I feel that Halle is to blame for Storm coming off as weak, as I think Halle was just bad for the role. But I still even believe that Singer and co. were to blame for the rest.

I did get the sense that Storm's mindset was that of Magneto or his followers; "I guess I'm afraid of them", "I gave up on pity long ago", "Sometimes anger can help you survive".

Now, I don't claim to be an expert of the comics since I've only really began collecting them since a bit after X-Men came out, and my collection is only about 85 or so issues, but I have been a fan of the X-Men most of my life (thanks in large to the Animated Series of the 90's), and I feel that I do have at least a more than average understanding of these characters and who they are.

I never remember from the comics or cartoons Storm ever having a mindset towards humans that bordered Magneto's. I've always seen her as a strong willed woman (something that Halle does not portray) who could handle her own in crunch time. She was strong enough to be able to be put into a leadership role if neccesity dictated (something we did see in X2).

My impressions of her from the cartoons, and the comics that I've read, is that she is a no-nonsense, business first type of woman (as I have seen through her many encounters with Gambit, and her "rolleyes" type of responses to his wit). At the same time, she is also a very trusting person, the one person who will stay in your corner no matter what, even if nobody else will be (again, through her encounters with Gambit. The fact that she was the only one, by my understanding, that supported Gambit through the trial that got him abandoned in Antarctica. The fact that she was the one who lobbied to get him into the X-Men, even when nobody trusted him. And the fact that she is the one person that Gambit can count on, period, when he really needs someone in his corner. My favorite example being from Uncanny X-Men #326 I believe it is)

I don't see this really come through in the movies, thus far. Her trusting, forgiving attitude, is pretty much ruined through her fear and anger towards humans. The Storm I know would not have anger towards humans, because even if she didn't agree, she's understand where they were coming from, and her motivation for following Xavier's dream would be to try to enlighten them, and make them understand that mutants may be potentially dangerous, but that doesn't mean they have to be.

I don't see Storm being in anyone's corner when their backs are against the wall. Granted, the closest to this we see is Wolverine, and the fact that Cyclops in particular, but even the rest of the X-Men seem a bit cautious towards him. The Storm I know would lobby to let Logan prove himself. That yea, he may come off as a bit of an arrogant *******, but that he really has a heart of gold and needs a chance to show that. But I guess that role is given to Xavier.

Again, my take on Storm is just that; my take. One take on a character. Lightning Strikez or X-Maniac or anyone else may have a different view of the character. But that is how I view the character, and why I feel she was portrayed incorrectly.

But in no way do I think her (in my opinion) incorrect portrayal ruined the movies.

I do blame a mix of Bryan and Halle for Storm's portrayal though. Halle for coming across as weak, losing the accent in X2, etc...

But I do blame Bryan too. I believe he did state somewhere that he was not even a fan of the Storm character, and only put her into the franchise because the studio wanted her. Which is not something I agree with, because Storm is one of my "Vital" characters that are an absolute must have, and I don't agree with Bryan's wanting to just cut her out of X-Men 3. I believe this not really liking the character led to him probably not being too inspired when interpreting her character from comic book to big screen.

 

[weapon-x]

Isn't there something wrong, when we can't really tell the difference between a good and a bad guy, apart from that one of them is good and one of them is bad?

whose to say that mistique is a bad guy, the bad guys are the oppressors. It's the old tale of one mans terrorist is another mans freedow fighter. Perhaps it is questionable in their methods but i don't think it's as black and white as that. Magneto and the brother hood aren't bad guys really, extremists yes. btw i'm not condoning the actions of extremists but they have their way and they believe it to be right. damn this is some deep s**t going on in this thread.

 

[bosef982]

whose to say that mistique is a bad guy, the bad guys are the oppressors. It's the old tale of one mans terrorist is another mans freedow fighter. Perhaps it is questionable in their methods but i don't think it's as black and white as that. Magneto and the brother hood aren't bad guys really, extremists yes. btw i'm not condoning the actions of extremists but they have their way and they believe it to be right. damn this is some deep s**t going on in this thread.

I totally agree with you here. The nuances of Magneto's morality is not as simple as some people may think, or as easily resolved as many would want.

 

[bosef982]

Bosef, again:

I think you are totally on point in your arguement. There is one part I'd like to address from your first big post:



There is no way of saying this that won't come off as pompous, egotistical, arrogant, whatever, so I am just going to say it and state from the get go that my intentions are not to offend (even though they will)

I think it has to do with the form of media that comic books are, and the types of people that read them.

Novels are a more "intelligent" form of medium. It is higher level writing and storytelling, and character development, etc... It relies on stimulating the mind, and making the person think. Novels are a form of entertainment for the educated person. Go to college, it is just expected of you that you read novels.

Comic books are simpler. Their target audience is for children and teenagers. The level of writing is not as complex as novel writing, and instead of relying on stimulating the mind, it relies on pictures and action, and larger than life characters.

(^ This is where the offending comes in. Keep in mind I am NOT saying that comic books are a lesser form of entertainment. I have a stack of X-Men comics myself, and I think that it takes a great deal of imagination to come up with these characters and stories. However, simply put, novels are the educated man's entertainment, comic books are not)

I think because of the form of entertainment that novels are vs. comic books, they tend to have different followings. A movie based on a novel is going to have a higher acknowledgement for change, considering novel readers are probably more interested in the underlying tones and themes, the symbolism, etc... more so than the direct literalness "well this exact occurance happened so it should happen in the movie"

Comic book fans don't always get the symbolism and themes and tones presented in a comic book (see all of the arguments regarding the costumes, or not enough action), and want that literalness, they want the action, they want the "big", and when someone like Singer comes along and presents the tones and themes of the source material, and prioritizes that over flashy uniforms and optic blasts, a lot of the comic book fans just don't "get it", and think because these characters have been toned down from their comic book counterparts, that they were misinterpreted.

Now on to the big debate of the day, and that is Storm. I agree wholeheartedly with everything you said regarding Storm's character. She had plenty to do, and was just as much a part of the movie as Wolverine, or anyone else. I think some people are really just grasping for straws when they say stuff like "Storm should have been shown landing on the snow in X-Men" or "Storm should have left the jet when she created those tornadoes" or "Storm had to be saved by Nightcrawler, so it takes away from what she did"... I really think those are beyond nitpicking. That's just wanting stuff to be there that doesn't need to be there, and just showing that no matter what happens, you're not going to be satisfied.

On that note, I do believe there is some validity to the "Storm wasn't portrayed correctly" arguement. I used to feel that Rogue wasn't portrayed correctly, but then I realized that she actually was, again, in the form of "themes and tones". No, she wasn't flying around, throwing tanks and Sentinels and punching Juggernaut through buildings. But her character; her feelings towards her powers, her being scared, those are very accurate to her character.

After I realized that, I did being to realize where Storm was portrayed incorrectly. I feel that Halle is to blame for Storm coming off as weak, as I think Halle was just bad for the role. But I still even believe that Singer and co. were to blame for the rest.

I did get the sense that Storm's mindset was that of Magneto or his followers; "I guess I'm afraid of them", "I gave up on pity long ago", "Sometimes anger can help you survive".

Now, I don't claim to be an expert of the comics since I've only really began collecting them since a bit after X-Men came out, and my collection is only about 85 or so issues, but I have been a fan of the X-Men most of my life (thanks in large to the Animated Series of the 90's), and I feel that I do have at least a more than average understanding of these characters and who they are.

I never remember from the comics or cartoons Storm ever having a mindset towards humans that bordered Magneto's. I've always seen her as a strong willed woman (something that Halle does not portray) who could handle her own in crunch time. She was strong enough to be able to be put into a leadership role if neccesity dictated (something we did see in X2).

My impressions of her from the cartoons, and the comics that I've read, is that she is a no-nonsense, business first type of woman (as I have seen through her many encounters with Gambit, and her "rolleyes" type of responses to his wit). At the same time, she is also a very trusting person, the one person who will stay in your corner no matter what, even if nobody else will be (again, through her encounters with Gambit. The fact that she was the only one, by my understanding, that supported Gambit through the trial that got him abandoned in Antarctica. The fact that she was the one who lobbied to get him into the X-Men, even when nobody trusted him. And the fact that she is the one person that Gambit can count on, period, when he really needs someone in his corner. My favorite example being from Uncanny X-Men #326 I believe it is)

I don't see this really come through in the movies, thus far. Her trusting, forgiving attitude, is pretty much ruined through her fear and anger towards humans. The Storm I know would not have anger towards humans, because even if she didn't agree, she's understand where they were coming from, and her motivation for following Xavier's dream would be to try to enlighten them, and make them understand that mutants may be potentially dangerous, but that doesn't mean they have to be.

I don't see Storm being in anyone's corner when their backs are against the wall. Granted, the closest to this we see is Wolverine, and the fact that Cyclops in particular, but even the rest of the X-Men seem a bit cautious towards him. The Storm I know would lobby to let Logan prove himself. That yea, he may come off as a bit of an arrogant *******, but that he really has a heart of gold and needs a chance to show that. But I guess that role is given to Xavier.

Again, my take on Storm is just that; my take. One take on a character. Lightning Strikez or X-Maniac or anyone else may have a different view of the character. But that is how I view the character, and why I feel she was portrayed incorrectly.

But in no way do I think her (in my opinion) incorrect portrayal ruined the movies.

I do blame a mix of Bryan and Halle for Storm's portrayal though. Halle for coming across as weak, losing the accent in X2, etc...

But I do blame Bryan too. I believe he did state somewhere that he was not even a fan of the Storm character, and only put her into the franchise because the studio wanted her. Which is not something I agree with, because Storm is one of my "Vital" characters that are an absolute must have, and I don't agree with Bryan's wanting to just cut her out of X-Men 3. I believe this not really liking the character led to him probably not being too inspired when interpreting her character from comic book to big screen.

You know what, I've never thought of it this way. It makes a lot of sense, a lot. And I can see the issue with Storm's characterization now that you explain it that way, and how it can go both ways. I also think it's interesting that out of all the characters, Rogue was changed the most drastically.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Why would Halle be to blame for losing the accent in X2? That is a directorial decision, not a cast member choice. Anna Paquin's natural Southern accent was also seriously restricted in the second film.

 

[Angry Sentinel]

You know what, I've never thought of it this way. It makes a lot of sense, a lot. And I can see the issue with Storm's characterization now that you explain it that way, and how it can go both ways. I also think it's interesting that out of all the characters, Rogue was changed the most drastically.

.... I cant believe it!... just kidding !!

Nell did put it rather well. But I gotta say that a lot of people have been trying to express that exact same thing.

But in no way do I think her (in my opinion) incorrect portrayal ruined the movies.

I do blame a mix of Bryan and Halle for Storm's portrayal though. Halle for coming across as weak, losing the accent in X2, etc...

But I do blame Bryan too. I believe he did state somewhere that he was not even a fan of the Storm character, and only put her into the franchise because the studio wanted her. Which is not something I agree with, because Storm is one of my "Vital" characters that are an absolute must have, and I don't agree with Bryan's wanting to just cut her out of X-Men 3. I believe this not really liking the character led to him probably not being too inspired when interpreting her character from comic book to big screen.

I dont think anybody really thought it ruined the movie perse, just possibly made that element less enjoyable for them. In the same way that it would be if Gambit were characterized in a different tone, you would frown... still enjoy the movie, but frown. And you would be most happy to get into a "discussion" with anyone who tried to tell you that it(the movie) did capture the heart of the character.

STRONGLY AGREED...It has been my position all along that they were both responsible (Bryan and Halle).

It appeared to me that these elements were the case for Bryan's reasonings. But as Bosef has stated there could be another side to the looking glass and we really cant prove for certain which is absolutely true.


Hotaru & Xmaniac: you have both given me something new to think about with the poorly established character's motives. Yes, we have often seen the same incidences lead someone to two different paths; but generally, in good storytelling, we do have a clearly established feeling as to why each one would have chosen their respective paths....


GOD I LOVE THIS DISCUSSION, GOOD JOB EVERYONE!!!

 

[X-Maniac]

Now on to the big debate of the day, and that is Storm. I agree wholeheartedly with everything you said regarding Storm's character. She had plenty to do, and was just as much a part of the movie as Wolverine, or anyone else. I think some people are really just grasping for straws when they say stuff like "Storm should have been shown landing on the snow in X-Men" or "Storm should have left the jet when she created those tornadoes" or "Storm had to be saved by Nightcrawler, so it takes away from what she did"... I really think those are beyond nitpicking. That's just wanting stuff to be there that doesn't need to be there, and just showing that no matter what happens, you're not going to be satisfied.

I want to respond to this. It was me who said I would have liked to see Storm landing on the snow, and leaving the jet to create the tornadoes. I felt it would have been more in keeping with accurately portraying the comicbook character - namely the fact that she flies. She wears a cape, and yet she has not flown, only levitated upwards from the elevator shaft.

Many Storm fans - and even Halle herself - have said that Storm should be seen flying. Scenes showing her flying were apparently cut from X2 (a scene of her flying over water, and a scene generating the electrical storm at the dam - those may in fact be the same scene).

All I was doing was saying where I would have liked to have seen flight scenes. It's not 'beyond nitpicking'. It's what I think. These movies are not beyond reproach. We are entitled to give our comments and our personal vision of how we would, perhaps, have done things.

If I'd done those movies, I would have had her landing on the snow (immediate character introduction for fans, immediately everyone in the movie and watching the movie know this is another mutant, her trademark power of flight is established). And i would have certainly tried out the idea of having her eject from the jet and fly into the clouds to create the tornadoes, later landing beside Magneto, with him saying 'When will these people learn how to fly' to Mystique and then Storm landing and saying 'Some of us already can'.

Because those things were not done does make my ideas and opinions crap, wrong or beyond nitpicking. They are things I would have liked to have seen, or would have liked to have done. If you disagree then fine, but that does not make you holier-than-thou Mr Perfect while I am wrong.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

I would completely agree except that we have come to learn that he really isnt that responsible for the progression that we have seen... Much of what was done in X2 for that character hasnt been clearly established as being Singers ideas. And If what I read about his idea for X3 was correct; Then he still didnt truly establish/portray/reflect a hearty version of the original Orroro Munroe....nor did he plan to. So how does your arguement of "time constraints" hold up across...

Exactly right. That's why I said, that while Bryan has excelled in "getting" the X-Men, he missed the point entirely with Storm. Halle is far from infallible, but in my opinion she was set up for failure by Bryan and his decision making process.

 

[X-Maniac]

I never remember from the comics or cartoons Storm ever having a mindset towards humans that bordered Magneto's. I've always seen her as a strong willed woman (something that Halle does not portray) who could handle her own in crunch time. She was strong enough to be able to be put into a leadership role if neccesity dictated (something we did see in X2).

My impressions of her from the cartoons, and the comics that I've read, is that she is a no-nonsense, business first type of woman (as I have seen through her many encounters with Gambit, and her "rolleyes" type of responses to his wit). At the same time, she is also a very trusting person, the one person who will stay in your corner no matter what, even if nobody else will be (again, through her encounters with Gambit. The fact that she was the only one, by my understanding, that supported Gambit through the trial that got him abandoned in Antarctica. The fact that she was the one who lobbied to get him into the X-Men, even when nobody trusted him. And the fact that she is the one person that Gambit can count on, period, when he really needs someone in his corner. My favorite example being from Uncanny X-Men #326 I believe it is)

I don't see this really come through in the movies, thus far. Her trusting, forgiving attitude, is pretty much ruined through her fear and anger towards humans. The Storm I know would not have anger towards humans, because even if she didn't agree, she's understand where they were coming from, and her motivation for following Xavier's dream would be to try to enlighten them, and make them understand that mutants may be potentially dangerous, but that doesn't mean they have to be.

I don't see Storm being in anyone's corner when their backs are against the wall. Granted, the closest to this we see is Wolverine, and the fact that Cyclops in particular, but even the rest of the X-Men seem a bit cautious towards him. The Storm I know would lobby to let Logan prove himself. That yea, he may come off as a bit of an arrogant *******, but that he really has a heart of gold and needs a chance to show that. But I guess that role is given to Xavier.

Again, my take on Storm is just that; my take. One take on a character. Lightning Strikez or X-Maniac or anyone else may have a different view of the character. But that is how I view the character, and why I feel she was portrayed incorrectly.

But in no way do I think her (in my opinion) incorrect portrayal ruined the movies.

I do blame a mix of Bryan and Halle for Storm's portrayal though. Halle for coming across as weak, losing the accent in X2, etc...

But I do blame Bryan too. I believe he did state somewhere that he was not even a fan of the Storm character, and only put her into the franchise because the studio wanted her. Which is not something I agree with, because Storm is one of my "Vital" characters that are an absolute must have, and I don't agree with Bryan's wanting to just cut her out of X-Men 3. I believe this not really liking the character led to him probably not being too inspired when interpreting her character from comic book to big screen.

I also want to respond to this. Your 'take' on the comicbook character is close, but not entirely correct. As Chris Claremont himself said, Storm joined the X-Men out of a sense of duty and responsibility, persuaded by Xavier to step into the outside world and use her great powers for the greater good, rather than simply bringing rain on to the crops. She is also very black and white in her views, fairly intolerant, very straightforward, and she sees right and wrong very sharply. She also has a fairly aloof and independent manner (slightly superior at times), which probably comes from having to survive on the streets as an orphan and a thief, from walking alone for a year across Africa to the tribal peoples she was drawn to by some sort of ancestral genetic memory, and from being seen as -- and becoming -- a goddess. She survived a tragic and rough childhood, and became elevated to something more than human in a fairly narrow and simple world. So she's never been 'normal', she was a street thief and then a goddess, and then a superhero; she went from being a criminal to being a fighter for justice!

In the movie, this would all have probably been too 'unreal' a background. It makes her so unusual, so difficult to relate to, and difficult perhaps for an audience to relate to. So, instead, she became a caring mother figure and a teacher -- nothing wrong with that, it could be seen as an extrapolation of her 'earth mother' aspect.

Without that unfilmed movie origin scene (included in the extended novelization) in which village children bullied her and led her to cause rock-sized hailstones to rain down on them, we never really understand the fear she shows or the anger that makes her respond.

I am a great fan of Storm, but i don't put much blame on Halle at all. She didn't have the Amazonian height of the comicbook version, but others varied too in stature (Jean, Wolverine, etc) so I soon got over that. They'd have to cast a Masai warrior to get Storm's comicbook stature.

It's the portrayal through background and dialogue that was most out of tune - we got no idea as to why she does what she does. If she's there out of duty and a sense of right and wrong, like in the comics, we never knew about it. Everyone involved in the movie allowed it to happen.

But..BUT BUT.. this is not to say that the movies are bad or that Singer did a bad job. We are now focusing very tightly on just one character - because the fans have not been entirely happy with it and Halle and Simon Kinberg and Zak Penn have all mentioned it too.

I also feel characterisation was not there for Jean and Cyclops, just in case you leap on me for being selfish about Storm. But once again this not really detract from the movies. We are JUST debating the way the characters worked - both within the film's own structure, and when compared with the known comicbook behaviours.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I think Scott prostituting himself when he lived on the streets is just in fan fic.

well its an idea, thats why i say "many believed" because in all honesty its never been written what has happened within those years

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I know why Storm fears humans and I understand her history. However, let's look at the story they're trying to tell. Her claustrophobia has no relevance. Kids throwing rocks at her, IMO, is not on par with Rogue's parents rejecting her. And Storm's background as a street urchin is irrelevant to the story at hand as well since it doesn't necessarily play into the mutant/human conflict as much. It'd be great if the movies had unlimited amounts of time to just explore character histories that are not important to the plot but that's just not the case. Maybe if a different type of conflict had been chosen then Storm's history would be more relevant but just trying to squeeze it in for the sake of the fans is just poor storytelling.

pretty sure rogue was the one who freaked out on her "foster parents" her "parents" wanted to help but rogue is the one who ran away, they didnt reject her.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

pretty sure rogue was the one who freaked out on her "foster parents" her "parents" wanted to help but rogue is the one who ran away, they didnt reject her.

You're right.

When watching X-Men, I never got the impression that her family outcasted her or anything.

I got the impression that after she discovered what happens when she touches someone, she ran away on her own. Her motivation for that could have been anything; she ran away because she didn't want to hurt her family and friends, she ran away because she didn't know what kind of reaction people would have to her.

That's the impression I got. Her family didn't seem too uncaring of her situation at the time.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I want to respond to this. It was me who said I would have liked to see Storm landing on the snow, and leaving the jet to create the tornadoes. I felt it would have been more in keeping with accurately portraying the comicbook character - namely the fact that she flies. She wears a cape, and yet she has not flown, only levitated upwards from the elevator shaft.

Many Storm fans - and even Halle herself - have said that Storm should be seen flying. Scenes showing her flying were apparently cut from X2 (a scene of her flying over water, and a scene generating the electrical storm at the dam - those may in fact be the same scene).

All I was doing was saying where I would have liked to have seen flight scenes. It's not 'beyond nitpicking'. It's what I think. These movies are not beyond reproach. We are entitled to give our comments and our personal vision of how we would, perhaps, have done things.

If I'd done those movies, I would have had her landing on the snow (immediate character introduction for fans, immediately everyone in the movie and watching the movie know this is another mutant, her trademark power of flight is established). And i would have certainly tried out the idea of having her eject from the jet and fly into the clouds to create the tornadoes, later landing beside Magneto, with him saying 'When will these people learn how to fly' to Mystique and then Storm landing and saying 'Some of us already can'.

Because those things were not done does make my ideas and opinions crap, wrong or beyond nitpicking. They are things I would have liked to have seen, or would have liked to have done. If you disagree then fine, but that does not make you holier-than-thou Mr Perfect while I am wrong.

That's fine. You're right, you do have the right to have your own opinion, but I also have the right to have mine. And my opinion is the same as that of bosef and others who stated that those scenes simply would not work in a cinematic context.

Flight was established for Storm, whether you choose to acknowledge it or not, and I feel it was more powerful when she came flying up the elevator shaft to catch an unexpecting Toad off guard and whoop his ass. BTW, I think that scene of Storm coming out of the elevator shaft, and the storm she causes, blasting the doors almost off of their hingest as she steps through them, I think that's the single best visual in the entire movie. And for general audiences who don't know that Storm can fly, I think it would have been more powerful for them. She gets knocked down the elevator shaft, then all of a sudden here she comes all pissed off. The effect would have been lost on the general audience had we seen her flying in the first 20 minutes of the movie or so.

I also disagree with her flying out of the Blackbird to summon the tornadoes for the same reason as has been said before. What, she's supposed to leave cover to summon these tornadoes just to make it look cool? I think that scene looked bad ass enough as it was. Logically, and cinematically, I don't think it makes any sense for her to leave the jet to summon those tornadoes. And no offense or anything, but I feel that "Some of us already can" line would be a bit cheesy.

Storm getting her butt kicked by Toad? Well, how about Wolverine getting his ass handed to him by Mystique. And whether or not Storm is a good hand to hand fighter in the comics, I think you, and I, and general audiences, and everyone else, can agree that Wolverine is a much better hand to hand fighter than Storm. It's called suspense, and it's needed for a quality cinematic experience.

Look, I'm not saying you're wrong. I don't think I ever said that. If that's what you want to think, then fine.

But I am also entitled to my opinion that I think that is beyond nitpicking, as I see it as complaining about stuff that makes good cinema.

And it wasn't you, no, but it was grasping for straws when Lightning Strikez had to mention like, 5 blows from the same fight (kicked in the stomach, kicked in the face, knocked over a table, knocked down an elevator shaft) and the fact that they used Storm when Wolverine stabbed Mystique as reasons on how they ****ed up Storm's character.

That's the kind of stuff that I agree with bosef about in this arguement. I think you and LS are arguing over petty stuff.

I do agree with you and LS, however, that Storm's character was not correctly portrayed, and I gave you my reasons why above.

Now, X-Maniac, please don't come back and say your opinions are not welcome, and I'm Mr. High And Mighty over here. Because I'm not saying that.

But if you want your opinion to be heard and accepted, then you have to also accept the fact that others aren't going to agree. We also have the right to say we disagree with your opinion, and explain why. I've done that. If you feel the way you feel tho, I'm not going to say you're wrong. My opinion may be that you are wrong, but that's what happens in disagreements.

 

[Star]

I don't think that Storm should have left the Jet to make the tornados. That would be stupid, and in the movies she comes off as very maternal towards the x-kids, so why would she leave a jet where some of them are, she'd want to protect them.

Besides, Storm is controlling the tornados and flying the jet at the same time. Although Jean can fly the jet as well, Jean can't fly the jet and manuver around about 15 tornados. Storm could TRY to keep them away, but Jean wouldnt really know where they were going. Which is why it makes sense for her to stay in the jet and make sure her tornados don't cause trouble for the x-men.

 

[Star]

Why would Halle be to blame for losing the accent in X2? That is a directorial decision, not a cast member choice. Anna Paquin's natural Southern accent was also seriously restricted in the second film.

Anna Paquin has a natural New Zealand accent, not southern...

 

[bosef982]

Well, it's a directorial -- or even a producer's choice -- because Halle Berry couldn't do it right.

 

[bosef982]

Exactly right. That's why I said, that while Bryan has excelled in "getting" the X-Men, he missed the point entirely with Storm. Halle is far from infallible, but in my opinion she was set up for failure by Bryan and his decision making process.

This is a change in position from this, which you posted on Page 4.

Suddenly Matthew left and then Brett arrived. Brett is continuing with the characterization, and as we can see from the trailer, she's got a more prominent role--as Storm should have. She, along with Cykes, Xavier, Jean and Wolverine are the most popular X-Men of all time. Bryan didn't "get it".

Which one is it? Did he get it, or not?

 

[X-Maniac]

That's fine. You're right, you do have the right to have your own opinion, but I also have the right to have mine. And my opinion is the same as that of bosef and others who stated that those scenes simply would not work in a cinematic context.

Flight was established for Storm, whether you choose to acknowledge it or not, and I feel it was more powerful when she came flying up the elevator shaft to catch an unexpecting Toad off guard and whoop his ass. BTW, I think that scene of Storm coming out of the elevator shaft, and the storm she causes, blasting the doors almost off of their hingest as she steps through them, I think that's the single best visual in the entire movie. And for general audiences who don't know that Storm can fly, I think it would have been more powerful for them. She gets knocked down the elevator shaft, then all of a sudden here she comes all pissed off. The effect would have been lost on the general audience had we seen her flying in the first 20 minutes of the movie or so.

I also disagree with her flying out of the Blackbird to summon the tornadoes for the same reason as has been said before. What, she's supposed to leave cover to summon these tornadoes just to make it look cool? I think that scene looked bad ass enough as it was. Logically, and cinematically, I don't think it makes any sense for her to leave the jet to summon those tornadoes. And no offense or anything, but I feel that "Some of us already can" line would be a bit cheesy.

Storm getting her butt kicked by Toad? Well, how about Wolverine getting his ass handed to him by Mystique. And whether or not Storm is a good hand to hand fighter in the comics, I think you, and I, and general audiences, and everyone else, can agree that Wolverine is a much better hand to hand fighter than Storm. It's called suspense, and it's needed for a quality cinematic experience.

Look, I'm not saying you're wrong. I don't think I ever said that. If that's what you want to think, then fine.

But I am also entitled to my opinion that I think that is beyond nitpicking, as I see it as complaining about stuff that makes good cinema.

And it wasn't you, no, but it was grasping for straws when Lightning Strikez had to mention like, 5 blows from the same fight (kicked in the stomach, kicked in the face, knocked over a table, knocked down an elevator shaft) and the fact that they used Storm when Wolverine stabbed Mystique as reasons on how they ****ed up Storm's character.

That's the kind of stuff that I agree with bosef about in this arguement. I think you and LS are arguing over petty stuff.

I do agree with you and LS, however, that Storm's character was not correctly portrayed, and I gave you my reasons why above.

Now, X-Maniac, please don't come back and say your opinions are not welcome, and I'm Mr. High And Mighty over here. Because I'm not saying that.

But if you want your opinion to be heard and accepted, then you have to also accept the fact that others aren't going to agree. We also have the right to say we disagree with your opinion, and explain why. I've done that. If you feel the way you feel tho, I'm not going to say you're wrong. My opinion may be that you are wrong, but that's what happens in disagreements.

No problem. It may well be that those ideas for scenes that I mentioned would NOT work. But I can see them in my mind's eye and i feel -- in my opinion --- that they could have worked. I know what you mean about holding back on the flight power until she hovers up from the elevator shaft at the end... this kind of 'holding back' is something that is sometimes done in movies for dramatic impact. It's one way of doing things, for sure. But not the only way.

It was a shock for Storm fans to see so things held back in the movies - her background, her motivations, some of her powers too. This is because she is such a strong and central character in the comics. And also because, even if you disregard any comparison with the comics, her movie portrayal was at times a little vague and weak. No matter which actress was chosen to say the lines about being scared, or how they delivered them, the lines clearly said this was a woman who was frightened....and who was bullied by Sabretooth and beaten up by Toad. Yes, she hit back.. but the weediness of the character before that didn't feel right to many people, for a character dramatically named Storm who was part of a superhero fighting force that had established an underground hi-tech base, jet and uniforms.. seemingly prepared for missions against baddies!

Non-fan moviegoers might well have wondered who was this unconventional black woman with unusual white hair and why is she there..the hair and accent certainly makes her stand out from the others at Xavier's school... it needed some 'filling in' and we didn't get it.

However, I do not blame Halle, as I said.

And what we have seen so far in X3's trailer is, to me, heartening. It's not a case of saying 'See, Ratner can do it, Singer can't' (we don't really know for sure what Singer would have done with X3 and its massive budget). This is not a case of dissing Singer, but of praising Ratner for carrying the torch with Phoenix and the building 'war' and delivering the goods with such characters as Angel and Beast. The fact that this Ratner movie includes Storm and has promised to define the character better is an added bonus.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

This is not a case of dissing Singer, but of praising Ratner for carrying the torch with Phoenix and the building 'war' and delivering the goods with such characters as Angel and Beast. The fact that this Ratner movie includes Storm and has promised to define the character better is an added bonus.

But this is what I was talking about in my other thread; "Will X-Men 3 really be a director's movie?"

How can you credit Brett Ratner for all of this stuff that was determined long before he got there.

IF you have to give credit to any director, then it actually goes to Matthew Vaughn, because he, along with Penn and Kinberg, wrote out the skeleton of what this movie was to be, and that included carrying on Phoenix, including the war, Angel, and Beast, and giving Storm a larger role.

Matthew Vaughn even said something along the lines of "Halle is the only cast member I haven't talked to yet, but I'm hoping she'll return. I've really expanded her role so hopefully she'll want to come back"

But no, that credit does not go to Brett Ratner.

I'm not anti-Ratner by any means, I never have been. But whether the movie turns out good or bad, this really isn't his film. Yea, he'll leave a visual stamp on it, set a pace, and all of that. But the overall tone of the movie was established when they wrote out a script and had a plot figured out (plot is probably the biggest factor in setting a tone of a movie). The plot was established. The characters coming in were established. Brett Ratner didn't have a hand in any of that.

So if this movie turns out to be totally awesome and epic, we can't say "Brett Ratner did was Singer didn't!" because Ratner DIDN'T DO IT. He put the cookies in the oven, and put a few sprinkles on them, but that's about it. The recipe and ingredients were right there in front of him. He just had to put it together.

And if this movie totally ****ing bombs, I don't think that Ratner can totally be blamed for that either, as most creative decisions were made before he came on board.

If totally ****tarded things happen like Cyclops dying, Xavier dying, Wolverine and Storm hooking up, that won't be Ratner's fault. That was all stuff that got okayed long before he was even around.

Yes, of course, being the director, he does deserve some credit / blame depending on the outcome, because he is still the guy in charge. But unfortunatley, it is unfair to both Ratner and Singer to compare these movies and directors against each other and say who handled the X-Men better, because Bryan Singer got to do 2 movies from scratch, and Brett Ratner had to get 1 movie made where all the creative direction had already been determined.

It may well be that those ideas for scenes that I mentioned would NOT work. But I can see them in my mind's eye and i feel -- in my opinion --- that they could have worked.

I know how you feel. No matter how good this movie is, it's never going to be the movie that it could have been, for me.

Whenever I watch this movie, I'm going to see the prison escape scene and think to myself "So why couldn't Gambit have been fit in here?"

When Iceman leaves Rogue for Kitty Pryde, and Rogue is all alone, I'm always going to think to myself "These guys really couldn't find a place for Gambit in this movie? It's right there!!!"

I understand the frustration Storm fans are going through with her inaccurate portrayal. It's a very similar frustration I face as a Gambit fan. The "he should be in, he can be fit in, he's ne of the most recognizable X-Men characters, and he was promised to us" frustration that I face with this franchise.

I'm not a huge Storm fan, but I am hoping that she's done better this time around. For the sake of the movies, I think that continuity is more important at this juncture than getting Storm right, so I hope they don't disregard continuity just to make her more comic book like. But I hope they get her better... as accurate to the comics as they can while maintaining the continuity of her character that's already been established.

 

[bosef982]

ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


achem...continue.

 

[The Guard]

Uhh are you for real?

No.

We seem to be lacking understanding, both ways. I think I know why, I guess you find one aspect of Storm's character unimportant while I find it very meaningful.

It's not that he (or I) find it unimportant. No one is saying they didn't omit something about Storm from the comics. But the dialogue, the things she does, are very in keeping with many aspects of her personality from the comics, and relevant in the context of the film, to the themes it establishes, etc.

I know, that in early draft of X1 there was a scene of young Storm being oppressed by her village on an event of her powers manifestation. IF that was shown on screen, all this fear of humans thingy would make sense (even tough that would be so different to her comic-book origin). However, it was never established on the silver screen! So this version of her history is non-existent!

This version of her history may not have been spoken of in the films. However, you can easily imagine something like that happening to her via the way Xavier talks about humans reacting to mutants and the dialogue Storm has with Senator Kelly in X-MEN and her talk with Nightcrawler in X2. Something bad obviously happened to her, be it racism, bigotry, or outright hatred of mutants. Something involving the world hating and fearing her. Does it really have to be spelled out to be understood? It's clearly in her past? Does it matter if she was a goddess in the context of these films? Or if she walked the streets? Would it be nice to see, sure (but we have screentime issues again). But not seeing it hardly destroys what's onscreen.

In the comic books however, many times she was shown as a person not fearing humans but trying to assimilate with them (mutants and humans should form one society). She feared that mutants may feel superior to humans and to human laws and that's what she fought against.

And in X-MEN and X2 what is she? A teacher. So obviously that aspect of her character still exists in X-MEN. As for Storm feeling mutants may feel superior to humans, and fighting against that...she does that in the movies, too. Who does she fight? Magneto. What does Magneto feel? That mutants are superior. Why, pray tell, would Storm teach at a school for mutants run by a man who clearly wants to preach tolerance, and fight against evil mutants if not to attempt to foster peace between humans and mutants and protect them from each other. This aspect of her character is there. It's just not overt.

Now, what I'm trying to say all along, is that what made Storm stand out of the rest of X-Men (among other things), was this subtle difference. She was persecuted, she was hunted by humans as a leader and a team member of outlawed mutant group (when the laws were giving no right for mutants), but when the laws changed and more and more mutants started to be born, she noticed a danger of this whole situation going the other way. Xavier and the rest od Institute ignored that, creating X-Corps and opened the Institute for all mutants, they were dealing only with mutants, ignoring humans existence.

You are citing comic book examples. From a world that has far more chances to tell these stories than the films do. Storm in the films CANNOT be all the things she has been in the comics in the span of three films. It's just not possible. Has she been perfectly portrayed? No. But correct me if I'm wrong, you seem to feel like omitting this aspect is an error in character. Despite the MANY aspects she has shown in the films that are pretty much bang-on.

See, in the movies Storm is showing Xavier's attitude. She's saying that she's afraid of them (people), and that she's teaching at the school where mutants are save from regulars. She's fighting her fight to keep others save (she went out to get Rogue back, to get Nightcrawler, to get young students back) fromt he hostile word of human society. She doesn't need to go out in the open, she just wants to stay at school. She's helping to save those people from Magneto's machine and Dark Cerebro, 'cos she's just a good person and she doesn't want to see people dying. That's all.

That's all, huh? When did fighting the forces that want to tear us asunder become a small thing? When did teaching Xavier's ideals and guiding young minds to become better, more rounded, informed people become small potatoes?
What do you think she's teaching at that school? To hide from the world? Doubt it. Just because we don't see Storm go shopping or out into the world doesn't mean she doesn't want to see humans and mutants live in peace, or just wants to hide in Xavier's school. There's actually no evidence in the film to suggest that she does in fact just want to hide in the school. We never see much of their "personal lives", so how can we say? The side she has chosen in the war on mutants, however, confirms that she does indeed want to see humans and mutants working together, because she is opposing Magneto, the force who wants to see one prevail at the expense of the other. Sure, she has reservations about humanity as a whole. That's a valid character point. Because she clearly also has a lot of hope left.

Now, in the comic books she's not fighting to be save, she's fighting to be equal. Now, why would she want to be equal with something she fears?

What a question to ask. Why does any group want equality? Or want to be equal with a group they fear? So the groups won't have to fear each other anymore.
She's afraid of persecutions, mutant massacres etc. but she understands that in the core of this problem lies not human bad nature, but them not being equal. She understands her responsibilities as a person wielding such a great power.

Geez, my poit still isn't completly clear...

No...it's not, actually. What is your point, then? You seem to be talking about things that Storm is shown to be in the comics and then implying that she isn't any of these things. She is these things. The main failing point of her character, as far as I'm concerned, is that she's a little too meek, a little too unsure of herself, by what Halle Berry and whoever directed her has put onscreen.

And, you know what, I still feel the movie versions of Storm, Cyclops and even Jean were lacking in definition/motivation compared with Magneto, Mystique, Rogue and Wolverine.

Why? Because there wasn't as much of their motivation shown? Because they didn't have speeches about what motivates them and arguments where other people told them what to be motivated about? Ten bucks that's why.

Okay, it's tough to serve all those characters well. The lack of origin scenes for Storm, Cyclops and Jean has not helped.

What's an origin scene going to accomplish that wasn't already touched on in this film? That powers manifested and they were different and shunned? WE ALREADY KNOW THAT. You know why? Because they clearly DO have powers, we SEE evidence of Cyclops and Jean being shunned in both films, and we are told that many humans hate and fear mutants via the films. Logically, they received similar treatments as other mutants. Because of their connection to Xavier, their motivations for working for him then become equally obvious. He protected them. Taught them to view what others considered a curse as gifts. They agree with his philosophy, and they are good people at heart. So they have chosen to help others like themselves, and fight for mutant/human equality along the way. These are their motivations. They are all the same in this regard, but these are their motivations nonetheless. Why don't we SEE that these are their motivations in neatly wrapped up dialoge? Because showing THREE people with the exact same motivations is pretty pointless, isn't it? Especially when their motivations should be obvious from the two films we have already seen. It's RIGHT THERE.

The origin scene for Storm would, to a large extent, have justified the fear and anger she has shown.

The fact that she has talked about anger and fear alone should justify them in the context of these movies. I find it laughable that people need to know exactly WHY she's so angry and has any fear. BECAUSE SHE IS A MUTANT AND MANY PEOPLE HATE AND FEAR MUTANTS IN THE FILM FRANCHISE. She's been persecuted because she's different, and seen others persecuted because they are different. Clearly that is why she is angry and scared in the film, in the context of her discussions about these aspects.

However, Cyclops also has a mysterious past (orphaned in a plane crash, links to geneticist Mr Sinister) ... he also has questions and mysteries that are yet to be addressed.

Which, as interesnig as it is, is more or less irrelevant to the movie franchise. Let's face it, Wolverine's mysterious past is a bit more engaging than Cyclops'. And maybe Cyclops came from a normal home in this franchise. It's a movie. Not the comics. Although, not showing this aspect hardly makes for a bad characterization of Cyclops.

The problem at this point is that Cyclops' history is mired in the history of other major characters. Wolverine's stands alone (save for a bit with Sabertooth) but Logan's is easier to rewrite since we don't know conclusively what's real in the comics anyway. Cyclops' known history is pretty straightforward and accepted and changing it would mean omitting a lot of details that Cyclops fans probably would not appreciate, i.e. Havok, Corsair, and Sinister. His history would probably be changed more than Rogue's. I love Cyclops (much more than Wolverine) but I don't think his history is strong enough to build a movie on. To me, Cyclops becomes more interesting as part of the X-Men and with his relationship to Jean.

Exactly.
This isn't, and was never supposed to be, THE X-MEN BEGIN. People seem to have a problem like that, but I fail to see how not showing bits and pieces of their origins (and that is ALL there would have ever been time for in these films) makes the overall characterization bad. You can EASILY imagine what happened to these characters in their pasts, simply because of the kinds of characters the actors have put onscreen.
What some fans fail to understand, is that this is not a case where some characters have been "done justice" while others have been "shafted". Everyone has been "shafted", in terms of what COULD be told about them if there were time and money for it. We have gotten bits and pieces of EVERYONE's past, including Magneto and Xavier. We don't know much about ANY of these characters beyond how the react to things in the stories we've seen. The only person to receive the "origin" treatment was Wolverine, and even HIS has been very incomplete. There is simply not time to say "This happened in Cyclops past, and this happened in Storm's past, and this happened in Jean's past, and this happened in Rogue's past, and this happened in Wolverine's past, and this happened in Xavier's past, and this happened in Mystique's past, and this happened in Juggernaut's past". Stryker had a three minute bit to show why he hates mutants so much, but we learned nothing of Deathstrike beyond that Stryker used her. This is not a "weakness" of the franchise, this is the reality of an ensemble film that has a large, intricate story.
And some of you need to get that through your heads and accept that not showing "the exact comic book origin" does not make these bad takes on the characters. It makes them incomplete ones, in some cases, but what adaption is EVER complete? Witness BATMAN BEGINS. As much as we learn about Bruce Wayne, they really only told us the basics, choosing to focus instead on an interesting story. We learn next to nothing about Carmine Falcone, The Scarecrow, Rachel Dawes, James Gordon, and even Ra's Al Ghul. But we found out the basics, and it worked well. Something very similar applies to the X-Men franchise. Because X-Men is an ensemble style franchise, with tons of characters to give TIME to, let alone develop. You're going to get bits and pieces here and there, that form the whole. And studio politics and actor demands don't make it any easier. I would LOVE to see some of you ATTEMPT a script with just Xavier, Magneto, Cyclops, Jean Grey, Storm and Wolverine and try to do justice to the characters. I'd love to see that. Many of you seem to think it's as easy as just "putting it in somewhere". It's not.

actually storms fear and anger is more then just "I fear humans cuz they hate mutnants and that angers me" its the whole fact she paranoid of tight/confined spaces as well as the fact her parents were killed right infront of her, not to mention she had rocks thrown at as a kid, as well as rummaging around on the streets trying to survive.. thats a big amount of background info

You bring up an excellent point. Storm is not devoid of fear in the comics. I find it very fitting that her deepest fear in the film franchise happens not to be claustrophobia or something similar, but what she fights against so heroically in several ways. I find it poetic, even.

To Xmaniac: The Guard keeps forgetting that it's not poor interpretation of the film, but poor re-envisioning of the source material. The movieverse by the Guard's own definition is a different "universe" not an adaptation (like most movies are)... and it probably should be.

Opinion, and I'd love to see your reasoning for it. What you feel is "poor", nine times out of ten equals something being "different" or "too different" from the comic book norm.

The whole Storm wasn't characterized right, she was afraid. Well, you totally missed the nobility in her actions. I suppose that's okay. But also, fall back into the cinema equation, Scott already fullfills in the movies what STorm does in the comics -- a devote follower of Xavier's dream who does not fear humans and wants to protect them.

Storm wasn't afraid all the time. And to pretend that having fear is a character weakness is absurd. It doesn't mean she's always quaking in her boots, it means she has some fear and anger. What sane person doesn't? And good point about Cyclops, but Storm is also clearly a devoted follower of Xavier, teaching his methods and fighting his war. And fearing humans doesn't mean she can't act to help them and foster better human/mutant relations. And she clearly does.

By adding the fear aspect (which I alreayd demonstrated is apparent in all their characters) Singer was attempting to illuminate her in a different way.

Exactly. Saying "there's more to this character than just righteous anger".

BOY: The sky is blue.

GIRL: No it's not.

BOY: Why?

BOY: But, wavelenths create that color, light wavelengths, bounce of objects and such, making it blue.

GIRL: Because...the sky is not blue. The wavelengths do not matter. The sky is not blue.

BOY: But, wavelenths are colors, created by scientists and proven by science. That is an inescapable fact. Thus, since sunlight illuminates that atmosphere in such a way, it is blue.

GIRL: No, the sky is not blue. Scientists are wrong. You're arrogant, and apparently there's no room for opinion here. You hate me. And you're just repeatnig yourself. God!

BOY: Well, if scientists are wrong, how do we delineate between when they are right? If we are not scientists ourselves, don't we have to trust --

GIRL: The sky is not blue. Period

It's funny because it's true.
And to quote myself from many, many threads...

Storm's re-imagining or re-working in X1 was RE-HORRIFIC!

Yes, there are going to be changes from the comics, but the characters still have to make sense in a clear way.

They do. And they make sense without having to throw out everything you know about the comic characters, too.

With Magneto, you can see immediately and clearly why he is what he is. Same with Rogue. And Wolverine. Also Mystique was given a strong motivation ('it's because of people like you that i was afraid to go to school') - that's why she does what she does, that's why she is siding with Magneto.

You can also instantly see who Cyclops is. And Jean Grey. And by the time X-MEN is over, you know who Storm is. Being afraid to school is hardly a "strong motivation". Having clearly been persecuted because she is different, and being angry about it is. But if that is a strong motivation, why are Storm's obvious motivations not? Because a particularly incident from her past is not explicitly stated? There's not a particular incident from Xavier's past stated...do his motivations fall apart?

 

[The Guard]

In my view, as I said above, the driving forces behind Storm, Cyclops and Jean were not as clear.

No, they weren't as deeply explored, or "obvious". Try thinking a little harder. In the movies, it clearly has everything to do with being mutants, and subscribing to Xavier's teachings.

They were not given origin scenes --- of course there was no room to give everyone origin scenes in X1.. it's a shame we could not have had another origin scene in X2 (either Cyclops or Storm... Cyclops' origin would have shown the background of an orphan finding all the things he missed as a child - a family with the X-Men, a father in Xavier and finding love with Jean, which would then have made the loss of Jean even more poignant for him).

How is that even relevant to the story of X2? And how did you not get a sense of the X-Men as Cyclops adopted family from "If anything happens, I'll take care of them"?

Storm's portrayal seemed a little fuzzy - she became a caring mother figure and teacher who was the only adult to openly admit a fear for normal humans, a fear which had grown into anger in X2. Her accent hinted at a background that was never explained. We can never expect her to be the Amazonian, aloof goddess in the comics. But she just seemed vague.

Or...something of a mystery? Hmm...

1. In X1 - she tells Wolverine 'at least I've chosen a side' in the 'war' (between mutants and humans) Magneto has predicted. She has chosen to fight against Magneto's anti-human stance and to fight for Xavier's dream of peace and co-existence. We have from her a definite statement that she is fighting for the side that protects humanity and wants to integrate peacefully.

Bingo.

2. She tells Senator Kelly she is afraid of normal people. It seems natural enough for a group of very different people - misfits, some with obvious physical differences - to feel that way though only she is heard to say that she is afraid. So she fears normal people, but is still fighting for them.

Bingo.

3. She fights Toad after he kicks the living shyt out of her, there is no mention or obvious sign of her comicbook claustrophobia. Is she simply enraged, is she at last actually fighting for the side she has chosen, is she stopping Toad so the X-Men can get on with stopping Magneto and his war?

Don't overcomplicate things. She's fighting because she's in a fight. It's twofold: She has to defeat Toad because someone has to, and she's pissed because he hurt her. If you want to look at why she's there to begin with as a hint to her motivations, she's there to find Rogue and stop Magneto, which is twofold: to oppose the forces that want to tear mutants and humans apart, and to protect the innocents who have been caught in the middle of the growing war.

4. At the start of X2 she is in the museum telling the children that it's now believed the more advanced Cro-Magnon man interbred with Neantherdal man and that there was no war with one wiping out the other. This has to be an allegory for the mutant/human struggle, and as such it backs up her quest for peace and integration.

Bingo.

5. In X2, we have her telling Nightcrawler she and Jean teach at a school for 'people like us' where they can be safe 'from everyone else'. That backs up her own personal fear - it's the second time she mentions fear, why is she so afraid, more so than Jean or Cyclops or Xavier?

Who says she's more afraid than they are? They all live at the school, don't they? Xavier started it to protect mutants, didn't he? The fear goes deeper than just Storm. And to back that up, it seems to me that Storm provides the literary voice for the common mutant in these films.

6. Nightcrawler tells her he pities normal people who have not experienced the things they have, and she says she gave up on pity a long time ago. Why? Is this self-pity? Or does she mean she feels no pity for those who hate mutants? What happened to maker her give up that pity?

It means she feels no pity for those who choose to hate. This is borne of anger, because she has clearly been mistreated, and seen others mistreated, because of the mutant aspect. The specifics don't matter in the context of the film.

7. And when he says someone so beautiful should not be so angry, she says 'Sometimes anger is all we have'. This could refer to her calling on rage to bring the fury of the elements, as she did with Toad in X1. She shows no real anger since that statement. Nothing happens in which she obviously acts upon anger.

No. She says "Sometimes anger can help you survive." There is a huge difference between that and "is all you have". What does "anger can keep you alive" tell you about her past? And her current state of mind?

I don't want to over-analyse, but when you follow through the dialogue like this, there are things that do not immediately add up.

How don't they add up? They form a more coehesive picture of Storm as a character. The reason these character aspects "conflict" should be obvious. Storm herself is conflicted. And this is shown in the film. It's similar to the way that Wolverine clearly wants to belong somewhere and stop running, but still feels like a loner and an outcast. Which makes them ideal for a hookup, don't you think?

I was going to make this arguement with Bosef as well, but there is still a lot of conjecture here. A lot of what we are discussing is just our own interpretations of what has been said. Although there is no arguing that there are two completely different characters on screen between X1 and X2. Is this growth? Or actress demands?

I don't see two different characters. She still has the same motivations, and the same goals. I see a character who is growing as a person, but is not fully developed into who she will be. She has less fear than she showed in X2. She is however, still full of anger.

I wonder why they wanted Storm to be so peripheral. Movies do try for ethnic minority representation, and Storm is the obvious choice for a black character in X-Men. It's just the dialogue that seemed not to give a clear sense of motivation, though I should add that Cyclops and Jean also did not have clear motivation.

What is "clear motivation" to you? Is it speeches and dialogue about what motivates people? Do you not see their actions? I honestly do not see how you can not see what Cyclops and Jean's motivation is in these films. Quite honestly, Wolverine's motivation, by your logic, isn't that "clear" either. We dont' actually see any reasons for him to join the X-Men other than the same reasons Jean and Storm and Scott had. Which I why I think they haven't tried to outright "tell" the audience what these characters motivations are: they're all pretty much the same, as I stated above. Is that not motivation enough?

Just tell me, in the movie-verse Storm was apparently hurt by humans, that's why she's angry and fearful of them. Now tell me - what's the difference between her and Mystique? Why is one of them fighting for Xavier, while the other's on Magneto's side?

Because one of them was mentored by Xavier, and one of them was mentored by Magneto. Though they both hate and fear on some level, one of them was taught tolerance at some point, and the other was not, she only had hatred reinforced in her life. Their mentors interventions in their lives made all the difference.

The goal of the question was to make him see, that as far as we know Storm and Mystique shared very similar (if not identical) past, and they have very similar (if not identical) feelings of fear towards humans. However, one of them stands by Xavier, the other by Magneto. And movies will give NO explanation of why it is so.

Think about it, then. Why did Pyro join the Brotherhood, despite beginning with Xavier? Because that's the kind of person he was, at heart. Because Magneto's values appeal to Pyro. Because all Pyro has ever known is hatred, and has not tried to break out of the mold. He has not tried to be tolerant of others and their differences. The same holds true with Mystique. It very much has to do with personal choices, and moral character.

Isn't there something wrong, when we can't really tell the difference between a good and a bad guy, apart from that one of them is good and one of them is bad?

There are MASSIVE differences.

What made them choose who they chose?

Tolerance VS. intolerance. Hatred and a desire for revenge VS. love and a desire for understanding.
They have made Storm different form the comic-books, but somewhere in between they've lost her reason for being with Xavier.
Why? She's right there, teaching his students, fighting his war. So tell me what her reason might potentially be.

As I hadn't known the books I could very well see Storm fighting on Magneto's side.

You might be able to envision it, but there'd be no logical reason, and the facts don't back it up. Because Storm clearly rejects Magneto's ideals and is a good person at heart, not someone who gave in to hatred and intolerance.

There is no way of saying this that won't come off as pompous, egotistical, arrogant, whatever, so I am just going to say it and state from the get go that my intentions are not to offend (even though they will)

I think it has to do with the form of media that comic books are, and the types of people that read them.

Someone had to say it.

Comic books are simpler. Their target audience is for children and teenagers. The level of writing is not as complex as novel writing, and instead of relying on stimulating the mind, it relies on pictures and action, and larger than life characters.

And so, generally speaking, many comic book readers do not fully understand or care about some of the loftier themes and literary devices?

I think because of the form of entertainment that novels are vs. comic books, they tend to have different followings. A movie based on a novel is going to have a higher acknowledgement for change, considering novel readers are probably more interested in the underlying tones and themes, the symbolism, etc... more so than the direct literalness "well this exact occurance happened so it should happen in the movie"

I'll buy that.

Comic book fans don't always get the symbolism and themes and tones presented in a comic book (see all of the arguments regarding the costumes, or not enough action), and want that literalness, they want the action, they want the "big", and when someone like Singer comes along and presents the tones and themes of the source material, and prioritizes that over flashy uniforms and optic blasts, a lot of the comic book fans just don't "get it", and think because these characters have been toned down from their comic book counterparts, that they were misinterpreted.

Definitely agree.

I think some people are really just grasping for straws when they say stuff like "Storm should have been shown landing on the snow in X-Men" or "Storm should have left the jet when she created those tornadoes" or "Storm had to be saved by Nightcrawler, so it takes away from what she did"... I really think those are beyond nitpicking. That's just wanting stuff to be there that doesn't need to be there, and just showing that no matter what happens, you're not going to be satisfied.

Exactly.

On that note, I do believe there is some validity to the "Storm wasn't portrayed correctly" arguement. I used to feel that Rogue wasn't portrayed correctly, but then I realized that she actually was, again, in the form of "themes and tones". No, she wasn't flying around, throwing tanks and Sentinels and punching Juggernaut through buildings. But her character; her feelings towards her powers, her being scared, those are very accurate to her character.

Yep.

After I realized that, I did being to realize where Storm was portrayed incorrectly. I feel that Halle is to blame for Storm coming off as weak, as I think Halle was just bad for the role. But I still even believe that Singer and co. were to blame for the rest.

What is "the rest"?

I did get the sense that Storm's mindset was that of Magneto or his followers; "I guess I'm afraid of them", "I gave up on pity long ago", "Sometimes anger can help you survive".

The mindset of Magneto can't be her mindset. Or she'd be a villain. Storm's mindset is obviously that of someone who was persecuted, but chose to foster understanding and peace instead of wanting to destroy her and mutantkind's tormentors. This mindset, buying into Xavier's "tolerance" and "understanding" aspects, is NOT the mindset of Magneto and his followers. Therefore Storm is clearly very different than they are, and has a markedly different mindset. What she has is similar motivations, but not the same ones by any stretch.

I never remember from the comics or cartoons Storm ever having a mindset towards humans that bordered Magneto's.

Does that make it an invalid take on her character? Can you see how, for a character like Storm, as a mutant, she would likely have these aspects to her character, but overcome them because of who she is?

I've always seen her as a strong willed woman (something that Halle does not portray)

And how.

My impressions of her from the cartoons, and the comics that I've read, is that she is a no-nonsense, business first type of woman (as I have seen through her many encounters with Gambit, and her "rolleyes" type of responses to his wit).

She has been all business in X-MEN and X2. Very to the point, outspoken, and unwilling to take much crap from anyone. At least through dialogue. Halle's portrayal of her does not scream "confidence"

At the same time, she is also a very trusting person, the one person who will stay in your corner no matter what, even if nobody else will be (again, through her encounters with Gambit. The fact that she was the only one, by my understanding, that supported Gambit through the trial that got him abandoned in Antarctica. The fact that she was the one who lobbied to get him into the X-Men, even when nobody trusted him. And the fact that she is the one person that Gambit can count on, period, when he really needs someone in his corner. My favorite example being from Uncanny X-Men #326 I believe it is)

I don't see this really come through in the movies, thus far. Her trusting, forgiving attitude, is pretty much ruined through her fear and anger towards humans.

So she has some fear and anger. Where in the movies do you see her choose to let her anger and fear outweigh her trust, in her relationships with people (Except for Sabertooth and Toad, even with Magneto she appeals to his humanity)? She doesn't let that happen in these films. Ever. In fact, when she has a chance to let her hatred take over, she chooses to trust Kelly, with her emotions, if nothing else. Then why, out of all the X-Men, does she stay there with Senator Kelly? Why does she not let him die alone? Why does she talk so intimately with him about her feelings on humanity and mutantkind? Why is she the one who bonds with Nightcrawler, who for all they know, is dangerous? She's as trusting as anyone has been in these films, certainly far more so than Jean, Cyclops, and even Xavier, simply by the nature of the conversations she's had with people. She's bared herself emotionally more than any of them, really. The "fear and anger" may not be overt in the comics, but it's not hard to see it being there somewhere, simply because she is a mutant, and sees the results of hatred every day. How does having some fear and anger toward humans hurt her character? I mean, you live in the same world I do, are you honestly telling me that you don't have some fear anf anger over humanity's actions from time to time? Why should Storm be any different?

The Storm I know would not have anger towards humans, because even if she didn't agree, she's understand where they were coming from, and her motivation for following Xavier's dream would be to try to enlighten them, and make them understand that mutants may be potentially dangerous, but that doesn't mean they have to be.

First, she never expressly says "anger toward humans". She says "anger". Anger can come from many places. It can come from how humants treat mutants, or how Magneto has treated humans or the whole damned conflict.
You say the Storm you know would not have anger toward humans. I call bull****. Why?
Let's roleplay.
You are a mutant. Because you are a mutant, people think differently of you. They may even shun you. And if they don't shun you, then by your work with Xavier, you are exposed to many situations where mutants ARE hated and shunned. Do you honestly think that wouldn't make someone like Storm angry? The suffering of anyone? I do. If not, what makes her angry then? Attacks on her physical person? The character in the comics and the movies, afterall, is named "Storm"? That name hardly suggests someone devoid of anger and tumultuous emotions.
You can't always choose who or what you become angry at, or what you fear. You can however, choose what you do with that anger and fear, and if you let it control you or make you inactive. Storm doesn't. She has turned it into something positive.
Does Storm go around preaching tolerance to humans and mutants in the movies? No, she's clearly starting with mutants. But it's not hard to see this version of Storm branching out and becoming something more, where she tried to spread the word to mutants. Her character hasn't reached that point yet in this movie. Doesn't mean she won't.

 

[The Guard]

I don't see Storm being in anyone's corner when their backs are against the wall.

Then what movies were you watching? You do realize, that when the delegates at the UN conference have their "backs against the wall", she risks her life to take on Magneto and his followers, and uses her powers to save their lives, right? Whose corner is she in at that point? Do you think she's just fighting Magneto for the hell of it? Or for just Rogue? Seems like she's on their side, to me in that situation. In X2, she uses her powers to save humanity when their back is against a wall, right? And when the kids are in a cell with their "backs to the wall", who finds them and rescues them. Storm.

The Storm I know would lobby to let Logan prove himself.

Now you're just nitpicking, with more of this "they could have had a moment like this in there" stuff. She did, in X-MEN, try to get him to see what was truly important beyond himself. But you don't remember that, do you?

Again, my take on Storm is just that; my take. One take on a character. Lightning Strikez or X-Maniac or anyone else may have a different view of the character. But that is how I view the character, and why I feel she was portrayed incorrectly.

So, because it doesn't conform to your particular view of a character, it's all wrong? "I don't like it", fine. "It's wrong"? Wow.

But I do blame Bryan too. I believe he did state somewhere that he was not even a fan of the Storm character, and only put her into the franchise because the studio wanted her. Which is not something I agree with, because Storm is one of my "Vital" characters that are an absolute must have, and I don't agree with Bryan's wanting to just cut her out of X-Men 3. I believe this not really liking the character led to him probably not being too inspired when interpreting her character from comic book to big screen.

And yet he gave her some of the most emotional and thematically relevent stuff in both movies and let her save the day in X2.

Why would Halle be to blame for losing the accent in X2?

Because she could not hold onto an accent in X-MEN. She wavered into three or four different ones, despite limited screentime.

That is a directorial decision, not a cast member choice.

The decision occurred because Halle proved she couldn't hold one.

I want to respond to this. It was me who said I would have liked to see Storm landing on the snow, and leaving the jet to create the tornadoes. I felt it would have been more in keeping with accurately portraying the comicbook character - namely the fact that she flies. She wears a cape, and yet she has not flown, only levitated upwards from the elevator shaft.

First, what you describe is not "flight", it is "landing". Second, because she flies...we have to see that right away? A more important part of her character might be the fact that she CREATES STORMS, which we DO see right away. Flying was established in X-MEN...when there was a reason for it to be there, storywise. And you did see the cape she was wearing, right? I'm pretty sure most audience members did.

And i would have certainly tried out the idea of having her eject from the jet and fly into the clouds to create the tornadoes, later landing beside Magneto, with him saying 'When will these people learn how to fly' to Mystique and then Storm landing and saying 'Some of us already can'.

Call and response dialogue that removes all impact from Magneto's words! Does it get any more clever? Lost in your example is how Storm would manage to catch up to a supersonic jet that would probably be miles away so quickly, or even would have known where it went after she ejected.

Because those things were not done does make my ideas and opinions crap, wrong or beyond nitpicking. They are things I would have liked to have seen, or would have liked to have done. If you disagree then fine, but that does not make you holier-than-thou Mr Perfect while I am wrong.

No one called your ideas crap, or wrong. They are, however, nitpicking when you let "Why wasn't it done MY way" make what is onscreen bad. However, what makes you "wrong" is that you seem to not give a damn how it impacts the believeability of the story, at least in the case of the jet thing.

Exactly right. That's why I said, that while Bryan has excelled in "getting" the X-Men, he missed the point entirely with Storm. Halle is far from infallible, but in my opinion she was set up for failure by Bryan and his decision making process.

Please...stop...blaming...Bryan Singer...entirely...for Storm's portrayal. The studio, Bryan Singer, the writers (to a point, though I don't think they got anything WRONG, they just didn't INCLUDE certain things), and last, but certainly not least, Halle Berry are ALL to blame in part.

I also want to respond to this. Your 'take' on the comicbook character is close, but not entirely correct. As Chris Claremont himself said, Storm joined the X-Men out of a sense of duty and responsibility, persuaded by Xavier to step into the outside world and use her great powers for the greater good, rather than simply bringing rain on to the crops.

Which would seem to be in keeping with what we see in the film.

She is also very black and white in her views, fairly intolerant, very straightforward, and she sees right and wrong very sharply.

Which would also seem to be in keeping with what we see in the film.

She also has a fairly aloof and independent manner (slightly superior at times)

This is also found in the films.

In the movie, this would all have probably been too 'unreal' a background.

What it would have been is far too much irrelevant screentime. Unless you're going to give Cyclops, Jean, Xavier, Rogue, Iceman, etc, the same treatment, which is not possible.

It makes her so unusual, so difficult to relate to, and difficult perhaps for an audience to relate to. So, instead, she became a caring mother figure and a teacher -- nothing wrong with that, it could be seen as an extrapolation of her 'earth mother' aspect.

She's always been a mother figure and a teacher in the comics. This is not a CHANGE to the character. The only change is that they seem to not have made her so forceful and intense, and they have given her a bit more humanity with the "fear and anger".

Without that unfilmed movie origin scene (included in the extended novelization) in which village children bullied her and led her to cause rock-sized hailstones to rain down on them, we never really understand the fear she shows or the anger that makes her respond.

Unless you have half an ounce of imagination, that is. Saying you cannot understand Halle's fear or anger is like saying you can't understand why Xavier does what he does without seeing a scene of him witnessing mutants being persecuted. I do not understand this thinking. I simply don't. "They didn't tell her motivation to me outright so I can't see where her motivation might exist based on logical thinking". Have you people no imaginations? No ability to extract meaning from dialogue?

It's the portrayal through background and dialogue that was most out of tune - we got no idea as to why she does what she does.

Use your brain, then. Think about what is shown onscreen. If I have to spell it out AGAIN, I will.

If she's there out of duty and a sense of right and wrong, like in the comics, we never knew about it.

Then why the hell does the movie SHOW her fighting for right? Fighting for the ideal of Xavier? For the hell of it, or maybe out of a sense of duty and right and wrong? Why does the dialogue tell us she's CHOSEN her side and continually reinforce it through her actions? Why do we see that she's taken up Xavier's crusade via teaching and becoming an X-Man?

Everyone involved in the movie allowed it to happen.

No they didn't. You, like so many here, apparently cannot think beyond what you are told. Can't process what you are shown, even.

I also feel characterisation was not there for Jean and Cyclops, just in case you leap on me for being selfish about Storm.

In what way was characterization not there? You realize that "background" is not the only kind of characterization, right, and that ensemble nature of the films and the time constraints and story demands means you can't just throw a ton of stuff onscreen that you'd like to, right?

I also disagree with her flying out of the Blackbird to summon the tornadoes for the same reason as has been said before. What, she's supposed to leave cover to summon these tornadoes just to make it look cool? I think that scene looked bad ass enough as it was. Logically, and cinematically, I don't think it makes any sense for her to leave the jet to summon those tornadoes. And no offense or anything, but I feel that "Some of us already can" line would be a bit cheesy.

Exactly.

Storm getting her butt kicked by Toad? Well, how about Wolverine getting his ass handed to him by Mystique.

And Sabertooth. And Deathstrike. And Magneto...twice They forget so easily...

And whether or not Storm is a good hand to hand fighter in the comics, I think you, and I, and general audiences, and everyone else, can agree that Wolverine is a much better hand to hand fighter than Storm. It's called suspense, and it's needed for a quality cinematic experience.

Being a good hand to hand fighter is not going to help you against the Toad that was shown in this movie. This Toad was very capable, very quick, and used his powers to good effect. Being able to kick someone with a thirty foot long tongue that can simply grab your leg and throw you somewhere isn't gonna help.

And it wasn't you, no, but it was grasping for straws when Lightning Strikez had to mention like, 5 blows from the same fight (kicked in the stomach, kicked in the face, knocked over a table, knocked down an elevator shaft) and the fact that they used Storm when Wolverine stabbed Mystique as reasons on how they ****ed up Storm's character.

Exactly.

Besides, Storm is controlling the tornados and flying the jet at the same time. Although Jean can fly the jet as well, Jean can't fly the jet and manuver around about 15 tornados. Storm could TRY to keep them away, but Jean wouldnt really know where they were going. Which is why it makes sense for her to stay in the jet and make sure her tornados don't cause trouble for the x-men.

Bravo.

No problem. It may well be that those ideas for scenes that I mentioned would NOT work. But I can see them in my mind's eye and i feel -- in my opinion --- that they could have worked. I know what you mean about holding back on the flight power until she hovers up from the elevator shaft at the end... this kind of 'holding back' is something that is sometimes done in movies for dramatic impact. It's one way of doing things, for sure. But not the only way.

But don't you see? Your take on the whole "flying thing" seems to be that because they didn't do it, it was an incorrect portrayal. Therefore you are essentially saying YOURS is the only right way to do things.

It was a shock for Storm fans to see so things held back in the movies - her background, her motivations, some of her powers too.

If X-Men and Storm fans went into X-MEN expecting to see STORM BEGINS, I don't know what to tell them. I mean, it's just dumb to expect it all to fit into a movie that has to introduce ten other characters and give them all good stuff to do and character moments.
This is because she is such a strong and central character in the comics.
That's the COMICS, where you have ISSUE after ISSUE after ISSUE to develop ALL your characters and give them ALL elaborate backgrounds and rich histories and many, many displays of power. This...is a TWO HOUR MOVIE.

No matter which actress was chosen to say the lines about being scared, or how they delivered them, the lines clearly said this was a woman who was frightened....and who was bullied by Sabretooth and beaten up by Toad.

By your logic, Bruce Wayne is a horribly written, weak character in BATMAN BEGINS, because "fear" and "anger" are the central theme of the movie. Some of you are just hopeless. EVERYONE got their asses kicked and were defeated and "bullied" by the Brotherhood and evil mutants and villains in X-MEN and X2, including Xavier. It wasn't like Storm was being picked on by herself. If anything, she lasted LONGER than anyone else when confronted. She was shown to be able to TAKE MORE and DISH MORE OUT. Do you not see that?

Yes, she hit back.. but the weediness of the character before that didn't feel right to many people.

Weediness?

Non-fan moviegoers might well have wondered who was this unconventional black woman with unusual white hair and why is she there..the hair and accent certainly makes her stand out from the others at Xavier's school... it needed some 'filling in' and we didn't get it.

They might have wondered that. But only if they're idiots and ignored everything we saw onscreen.

 

[bosef982]

And just to add:

Can anyone imagine a fanboy movie? Here it goes:

OPEN CREDITS

The X-MEN turn, Storm hovers down, the Brotherhood steps up. Logan moves to the fro, Storm jumps into the air, flies a bit, then descends and pushes Logan down and shoots him a glance.

MAGNETO: X-Men, we have come to destroy you. I shall use the plan I used in Uncanny X-Men #448.

STORM: We shall stop you.

MYSTIQUE: (morphing for no reason, just to do so) No you won't.

CYCLOPS: How come?

SABERTOOTH jumps on Logan, pounds him. GROWLS.

SABRETOOTH: Because, in that comic, you can't beat us. We win.

LOGAN: But this is a movi --

XAVIER: Logan..I mean, Wolverine. Stop it. Nonesense.

MAGNETO: Now, I shall destroy you all.

STORM: Why do you do this? Humanity...wait (turns to Xavier)...what did I say in Uncanny #445?

JEAN GREY: I am PHOENIX! PHOENIX! Oh...sorry, you said "Humanity is one, we are part of it, it is simple. I have no nuance as a character. I am a thunderbolt tagline with a cape."

Everyone looks at Jean.

SCOTT: I am the leader. WE shoudl charge them. Right?

XAVIER: Wiat, remember, we must beg pause. Like in Ultimate X-Men 345.

JEAN: PHOENIX! PHOENIX! No, that was 543?

XAVIER: Was it?

STORM: I'm the leader. I need more screentime. I should charge.

CYCLOPS: Why are we all in black? This isn't like the comics --

LOGAN: But this is a movi --

XAVIER: Stop, Wolverine. Stop it. You've said more than three lines. Just...hush. Seriously. Jesus...

JEAN: PHOENIX does not wear BLACK!!!! RED and GOLD!!

BEAST: (shaking head) We should just wrap this up...

Suddenly, teeange ROGUE drops down from the skies.

ROGUE: Hey guys, I learned how to fly and punch holes in walls from a super-powered human who was not a mutant, yet had powers very similiar to a mutant but yet is not a mutant and this is so evidently so due to a clear line that everyone will get, thus explaining why I was able to absorb her powers. Watch.

SHE PUNCHES the ground, it SHATTERS!

X-MEN: OhhhHHHHhhhhh.

ROGUE: Yea, Sugah.

STORM: I can't do an accent, you can't either. No one upstages Halle -- I mean Ororo.

ROGUE: But I can act...

STORM: I can do this....

STORM FLIES for a bit, then lands, swagging her hips.

MAGNETO: Enough! Die X-Men! Die! Kill HUmans! No philosohy here! I'm a mindless mas murder! Depth? Please, I scoff. KILLKILLKILL!

Magneto rises, the metal around him swirling, a god of metal and iron, holding back the steel hurricane whipping about the X-Men.

MAGNETO: And now I will --

CRACK! Lightening. Magneto falls to the ground. STORM steps up, smirking.

STORM: I stopped you.

MAGNETO: But...it's only been...ten minutes...

STORM: I can never be beaten or hurt. I mustn't. Oh wait...

INSERT: Quick, random shots of CYCLOPS realizing his powers. STORM being beaten. Dramatic glances at the screen and...

STORM: Almost forgot...

STORM whips up a wind that drops a SEMI-TRUCK on LOGAN.

STORM: There.

BOOM! Ceiling collapses. A SENTINEL DROPS DOWN! But is destroyed by a a frost blast.

Storm raises her eyebrows, purses her lips, and snaps her fingers three times in Z-formation.

STORM: Beyatch!

CYCLOPS, JEAN, and XAVIER stand watching.

CYCLOPS: We did nothing.

JEAN: Shut up --

Cyclops vaporizes. Xavier turns --

XAVIER: Jean, you can't do that. In the comics --

Xavier falls to the floor, dead. Jean smiles.

JEAN: It was Uncanny 455, you crippled ****! I am a God! PHOENIX!

STORM: I will defeat you.

JEAN: But I'm a god.

STORM: Yes, but Fox wants me back, so...I'll beat you.

STORM blows Jean away. Turns, and walks off the battlefield.

END CREDITS.

COMING NEXT YEAR: STORM!!!!